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NNT AP Revision
- Thread starter ByAsura
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-Byasura
Idk last time I checked 4kota Arthur is Continent level and Meliodas scales
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My apologies. I had a power outage and couldn't respond in time.
LotL and Chaos are MCL. However, Arthur isn't physically, and even Arthur himself/Lancelot both say that he's more powerful with Chaos.
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So like Arthur would be Continent level physically, MCL with Chaos?
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For his durability tho, would it be Continent in base, higher with Chaos or Unknown with Chaos?
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Okay makes sense. Didn't Lancelot tank a hit from a chaos construct?
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He did and Meli did counter one of his hits too
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Nice
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- #1,171
Was that even Chaos' full power?
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Not sure but along the lines he mentions that chaos passively protects him or something like that
Edit: "subconsciously protects him"
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Wait when?
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When Lance got hit by Chaos hand Meli entered the melee and got attacked by Chaos and could counter it even though it seemed a bit hard for him
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Pretty sure it means Chaos will defend him without lowering his strength
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I've been really busy lately. I'll try to finish off everything tomorrow.
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This is really why I think Chaos wasn't at full power here.
Chaos is > Lancelot/Arthur, yet Meliodas could counter it with moderate effort.
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While holding back He Is supposed to be able to win a fight against Arthur And Arthur himself said that Lancelot fall short in comparison with Meli
Lance survived this hit Mel countered it
Chaos subcounsciously defends it’s master it’s his only will i don’t think he would lower his own power but ig we’ll see later
Anyway Meli solos ez
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I forgot about Elaine's durability.
At least City level (Should not be weaker than her own attacks. Even weaker Fairies survived hits from an Albion with heavy injuries. Note that her resurrection at Melascula's hands also empowered her compared to when she was originally killed)
Firstly, no they didn't. Secondly, she got one-shot by a Red Demon. Third, Gerheade is weaker and was going to impale her. Lastly, citation on her becoming more powerful?
Cope + L + ratio + we need a new rating.
Any ideas? If not, her dura will be Unknown.
At least City level (Should not be weaker than her own attacks. Even weaker Fairies survived hits from an Albion with heavy injuries. Note that her resurrection at Melascula's hands also empowered her compared to when she was originally killed)
Firstly, no they didn't. Secondly, she got one-shot by a Red Demon. Third, Gerheade is weaker and was going to impale her. Lastly, citation on her becoming more powerful?
Cope + L + ratio + we need a new rating.
Any ideas? If not, her dura will be Unknown.
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Isn’t a dead body like weaker than a functional one ?
Unknown seems fair i don’t remember her having any real feats in terms of durability
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Anyway she got one taped by Red demon so Yeah she shouldn’t scale
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Chapter 245 they are shown fighting the likes of Guila and Jericho but they don’t really tank anything
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Do blue even need a page?
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- #1,188
I think there's lots of mid/high-tier Holy Knights that scale to them. Even if not, I don't see a point in deleting their page like Calmadios.
I can't say the same about Green Demons, who don't even get killed onscreen, IIRC.
Edit: I'm asking for them and White Demons to get deleted.
I can't say the same about Green Demons, who don't even get killed onscreen, IIRC.
Edit: I'm asking for them and White Demons to get deleted.
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Bump + Stay or Scratch?
I never really gave a reasoning as to why I think Zeldris should get a new key but my reasons are.
1. He goes from struggling against Dahila in his first mark to keeping up with and fighting with Meliodas in his second mark (which is apparently just a 2× difference from his first mark) against the Supreme Deity. The same Meliodas that effortless stomps dahila.
2. Casually parries a barrage of Supreme Deity attacks which supports him being on the same level as Meliodas and Supreme Deity level which he obviously wasn't.
Him not getting a second key can lead to potential arguments like Dahila now scaling to the Supreme Deity which is just not right and not supported.
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Scratch. It's just one of those instances where Nabaka forgets shit.
This same Meliodas had to go 2nd Mark against them in the first place, immediately after being defeated, and was always portrayed as being on the same level as Dubs and Dahlia since they stomp and get stomped to the same extent by both Meliodas and Zeldris.
Mel and Zel exclusively use their 2nd Marks and combos against SD. They don't parry anything. So amped Dubs and Dahlia are just under half as strong as SD, which isn't remotely contradicted.
This same Meliodas had to go 2nd Mark against them in the first place, immediately after being defeated, and was always portrayed as being on the same level as Dubs and Dahlia since they stomp and get stomped to the same extent by both Meliodas and Zeldris.
Mel and Zel exclusively use their 2nd Marks and combos against SD. They don't parry anything. So amped Dubs and Dahlia are just under half as strong as SD, which isn't remotely contradicted.
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I don't see how dubs and dahila are portrayed to being on the same level when Meliodas specifically mentions dubs not being a fighter.
I'm really not sold on getting "beat up to the same extent stuff" Idk it just seems like a dodgy way.
Infact the first time Meliodas gets defeated was because of Dubs hax, I don't doubt Meliodas being significantly stronger physically than dubs.
Zeldris definitely shown to parry off one or two light attacks by the Supreme Deity.
How exactly is amped dahila even being half of the supreme deity not contradicted? The same dahila who gets dogged on by Meliodas who goes on to struggle against the Supreme Deity.
Speaking of which when Meliodas uses am Enchanted attack, it looks like the supreme deity is pushing back against it rather than just outright tanking it, can this be used for ap?
I'm really not sold on getting "beat up to the same extent stuff" Idk it just seems like a dodgy way.
Infact the first time Meliodas gets defeated was because of Dubs hax, I don't doubt Meliodas being significantly stronger physically than dubs.
Zeldris definitely shown to parry off one or two light attacks by the Supreme Deity.
How exactly is amped dahila even being half of the supreme deity not contradicted? The same dahila who gets dogged on by Meliodas who goes on to struggle against the Supreme Deity.
Speaking of which when Meliodas uses am Enchanted attack, it looks like the supreme deity is pushing back against it rather than just outright tanking it, can this be used for ap?
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He still has tons of weaponry, like a Sacred Treasure superior to Lostvayne that trapped Meliodas.
Not really. Meliodas got stomped by Dubs, Zeldris got stomped by Dahlia. They swapped with 2nd Mark, and did stomping without killing them.
It's pretty obvious from their fight scenes that Dubs ~ Dahlia ~ Meliodas ~ Zeldris.
I'm not talking in terms of physical strength, I'm talking in terms of firepower.
I thought you meant something else, not the massive light projectile spam that's not at all portrayed as being on the same level as her lightning or charged attacks, and still causes them to struggle.
You're still not explaining how that's a contradiction. Why is it actually contradictory for him to be less than 1/2th Supreme Deity and one-shot by opponents weaker than her physically?
That's just her barriers. Plus, it's kind of circular scaling if you want to scale Mel and Zel to them.
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I thought that's more of a hax thing than an ap thing?
Yeah he did get stomped by Dubs but the only reason why is due to his control over lostvayne, which is emphasized enough in the movie rather than Dubs outright just stomping him like how zeldris got stomped.
So you mean like with his weapons or something like that?
Oh I thought you meant dahila being 1/2 the strength of the supreme deity rather than less. But it's contradictory that he would get one shotted by Meliodas, then Meliodas in the same form and everything and even with an enchanted attack still struggles against the supreme deity.
No, I'm not trying to scale Mel and Zel to it. Also aren't her barriers per se the one that's impervious to physical attacks?
I was gonna suggest 50% Deities would scale to his value but i could see potential problems with this angle.
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I sincerely doubt because of how surprised he is when 2nd Mark Zeldris destroys his ultimate attack.
Also, Dubs survived that beating, and it was Zeldris/Meliodas' 1st Marks at the very least. So he'd certainly scale in terms of dura.
Yes.
Dahlia just scales to 1st Mark Zeldris and Meliodas, which puts him at that level.
Meliodas struggled against her barrier. When Meliodas and Zeldris' combo broke through the barrier, it wiped away half her body (which took her own FC'd magical attack with 0 damage) from a distance. Clearly they're >> SD with combos.
Barriers were repelling Meliodas' next combo, so physical attacks does include enchanter.
SD also took her FC with no damage.
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Barely survived, his shield got cracked open after single strike and got nuked by Ominous Nebula.
Actually never mind he survives the initial attack (barely) with his shield. But his "finest work" couldn't even scratch Zeldris.
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Gonna be honest here, the Dawn Roar and Dale's profiles are kind of shit.
- Let's go over Hugo and Jillian first.
Was uninjured after taking an attack from unarmed Sealed Base Meliodas
What they really did was take Meliodas bouncing between them. It wasn't at all a dedicated blow. Hugo can hardly take hits from even suppressed King, and got his arm lopped off by Simon.
- Now for Weinheidt.
Should be comparable to his fellow Dawn Roar members
That's entirely speculation. Weinheidt literally does/has nothing to suggest he's on par with any of the other members physically, especially since there isn't some general level to begin with.
- Simon
Along with Slader, killed a Copper Demon, among with other lesser demons
Unlike with Jericho's ice powers, it's literally impossible to tell who actually killed the Demons here (it may have even been an amped Knight). Plus, we don't even know how strong Simon really was at that point, especially since half of Liones' Holy Knights were amped by Cheat Hope to the point where Deathpierce (someone with a 540 physical strength) and Waillo (840) could harm Copper Demons, while unnamed characters could content with lesser demons.
- Dale
Has a far higher overall power level than Dogedo, nearly equal to Guila
That's just his overall power level. We don't know the individual categories.
Took attacks from Dawn Roar, including Slader, who could defeat his first unsealed form, and was ready to keep fighting without issue
First off, this is just massive amounts of circular scaling with all the other characters.
Secondly, Dale objectively couldn't withstand any hits from Slader. The profiles even mention that the rest of the Dawn Roar, who were weaker than Slader, could harm him extensively.
The fact that Weinheidt's arrow, which was easily caught by a 500 physical strength Gowther, was going to kill Dale should show the gap between these characters and Slader's 930 strength.
Should be comparable to his own durability
Aside from maybe threatening Slader, he's done nothing to prove that.
I'm thinking of completely revising Dale and just deleting the non-Slader Dawn Roars. If not, we should seriously look into how durable Gowther's armour is.
- Let's go over Hugo and Jillian first.
Was uninjured after taking an attack from unarmed Sealed Base Meliodas
What they really did was take Meliodas bouncing between them. It wasn't at all a dedicated blow. Hugo can hardly take hits from even suppressed King, and got his arm lopped off by Simon.
- Now for Weinheidt.
Should be comparable to his fellow Dawn Roar members
That's entirely speculation. Weinheidt literally does/has nothing to suggest he's on par with any of the other members physically, especially since there isn't some general level to begin with.
- Simon
Along with Slader, killed a Copper Demon, among with other lesser demons
Unlike with Jericho's ice powers, it's literally impossible to tell who actually killed the Demons here (it may have even been an amped Knight). Plus, we don't even know how strong Simon really was at that point, especially since half of Liones' Holy Knights were amped by Cheat Hope to the point where Deathpierce (someone with a 540 physical strength) and Waillo (840) could harm Copper Demons, while unnamed characters could content with lesser demons.
- Dale
Has a far higher overall power level than Dogedo, nearly equal to Guila
That's just his overall power level. We don't know the individual categories.
Took attacks from Dawn Roar, including Slader, who could defeat his first unsealed form, and was ready to keep fighting without issue
First off, this is just massive amounts of circular scaling with all the other characters.
Secondly, Dale objectively couldn't withstand any hits from Slader. The profiles even mention that the rest of the Dawn Roar, who were weaker than Slader, could harm him extensively.
The fact that Weinheidt's arrow, which was easily caught by a 500 physical strength Gowther, was going to kill Dale should show the gap between these characters and Slader's 930 strength.
Should be comparable to his own durability
Aside from maybe threatening Slader, he's done nothing to prove that.
I'm thinking of completely revising Dale and just deleting the non-Slader Dawn Roars. If not, we should seriously look into how durable Gowther's armour is.
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Maybe we can focus on the main revisions before fixing up their pages first
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That's the point of these revisions.
I'm making the sandboxes, and then doing all of the changes at once.
If a character gets deleted, that's one less to revise.
That's not to say I won't finish off the other profiles simultaneously.
I'm making the sandboxes, and then doing all of the changes at once.
If a character gets deleted, that's one less to revise.
That's not to say I won't finish off the other profiles simultaneously.
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