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Exactly. Closing a single mergequake is very, VERY distinct from making sure they never occur again.
It’s like stopping a tornado (through magical powers I mean), or stopping tornado throughout the whole world from occurring forever.
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Ninjago's Tiering 2
- Thread starter Minaaaa
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- ninjago ninjago (verse)
It’s like stopping a tornado (through magical powers I mean), or stopping tornado throughout the whole world from occurring forever.
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It’s circled… I know you are against the 4-C, but you can’t be BLIND… you literally see it crackling and sparkling… and it is a what happened to Megaweapon after Ninjas blasted it but before the collision.
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Time to call sum other mods in
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I agree with the star tiering and Onis not being 2-C
and so far im neutral on the whole Mergequake thing
and so far im neutral on the whole Mergequake thing
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The Oni would be 2-C anyway fairly sure, Omega beat Oni Garmadon
Minaaaa
She/Her- 521
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- Thread starter
- #47
His statment doesnt say that at all. He was explaning to the group what happened in the past and how the weapons went into space
Nothing supports the realms are demerging. Should they get LS now because they pull them away?
The dragons cores were to stop the mergequakes for good and stablize reality. The Dragon Cores would be Low 2-C due to stopping the world-destroying mergequakes storm
You cant be serious. These do not indicate they're destroying the entire space-time of the realm. destroying a universe =/= destroying its space time. You can have one without the other. The Oni are clearly only talking about destroying ninjago (the land).
So Tommy's statement about the MW becoming a star is invalid? Now we know for sure we dont know how the star is created, therefore we cant use the feat
UES doesnt make them scale to the full creation. If it took 4 powers combining to affect another 4 and cause it to be destroyed and create a star, we get 8 powers at play. We then divive that by the baseline value for creating a star to get to where the four scale. Also the ninjago websites says that the REMNANTS were on the comet, still meaning they dont scale to the full thing
Ok??
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Let's go on and debunk the entire wiki with this one lol
No?
Tommy states the weapons only got weaker after S3, debunking the entire claim,
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The wording matters. The way how he explained it implies destruction was prior to collision.
LS?.. What does it have to do with the feat? I literally gave you all of the reasoning why Realms are demerging, and you’re just “nothing supports that”?… That’s a definition of being ignorant.
Yes, they would stop ALL of them occurring forever, that’s different from closing a single one.
*2-C; due to being above closing a single Mergequake and stopping Realms from merging overall.
Statements say that they are destroying the Realm, and I already showed why it should be above Universal Level+. You simply ignored all of my arguments. You are very good at that, I see.
When did I say that?
We literally know that Megaweapon became that, wdym? And again “we dont know how the star is created = we cant use the feat” is not reasonable at all.
Megaweapon became a star, but since it was powerless, logically it was Golden Weapons who created it with Megaweapon simply becoming it.
It still had their power, it just changed the state. If we actually follow what Crystallized says, the elemental energy would be released if Weapons are destroyed. We don’t see that with Golden Blob. Also, in March of Oni, when Weapons truly lose their power, they stop shining. Again, not case with the blob.
Ok
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Dozens of evidence are against that reasoning. Bc we don't know how the feat is done ≠ the feat doesn't count. Destroying a Universe impleis destroying everything, including the Space-Time unless expliclty stated only sum physical contents will be affected, not our case here.
Minaaaa
She/Her- 521
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- #51
He just says, You used the mega weapon to destroy my mega weapon. You do know the visual is for the audience right? you do know he never implies this is what 1:1 happens right?
Dude, the entire plot of the second half of season one proves they arent demerging.
From the scans you guys have posted, You are saying the merge only merged locations in the realms and not their entire space-times. With this, the merge wouldnt be tier 2, rather tier 3. Now with this, youd be saying a SINGLE MERGEQUAKE is infinitly more powerful than the thing that caused it in the first place. Do you now see why this whole "Mergequakes demerge the realms" nonsense makes no sense?
None of it proves why it should be tier 2 or even tier 3. Do you think every statement of "Destroying the universe" is tier 3/2? Do you think every statement of "Destroying the world/planet" is tier 5?
That was one of you guy's main point in the last thread, that the mega weapon became a star.
We dont know how the star was created, therefore we cant scale anything to its creation.
I find it odd how when i said the weapons were damaged when they exploded given their blob state, you guys say they werent destroyed (If it changed shape it was destroyed), But when the MW "Loses power", you guys accept it as 100% fact of it being destroyed. First it was "The Mega Weapon was erased" now its "The Mega Weapon was depowered"
See above, it was never depowered
Still having their power.... changes nothing. If their remnants were on there, that means a significant portion of the weapons were destroyed
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Mb, the Realms 100% merged again with the mergequakes
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They imply the entire Realm, which IS a space-time lel. Burden of Proof is on you
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I'd like to remind you the Merge affected the Ethereal Divide as well (its the reason Space Bubbles exists within the ED), making it Tier 2.
Minaaaa
She/Her- 521
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- #56
They dont. They dont even physically destroy anything. Again, destroying a universe =/= destroying space-time, you can destroy a universe without affecting space-time. Wu literally says they are covering all the lands in darkness, what here implies space-time destruction? Saying "Destroy the realms" isnt a good statement, you can do that through a number of ways without destroying the entire thing.
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The ED is called a Realm, implying it has a Space-Time
Lol, at this rate, your simply in denial of the Onis being 2-C
Burden on you to prove they cannot destroy the full thing lol. Might as well go on and downgrade entire verses with your logic
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You ignored the other part. “But when they collided”. It fitting the visuals is supportive. It all is covered in the blog, and you just misinterpreted the statement.
Elaborate.
Merge is the cause of the Mergequakes, which is why it is higher than Mergequakes, both narratively and scaling-wise.
No? Since it is a cause, it is by default higher than the effect LOL.
No.
No, but in this case, since it is repeatedly stated over and over again, since I proved it should be already above Universal Level+ statement, and that it narratively makes sense, I see no reason why it would not qualify as Low Multiversal feat. And this questioning sounds like Argumentum ad nauseum, as you still repeatedly deny our arguments without even giving a proper reasoning against them.
Yes, and when did I reject this? It is literally in the blog to which I’ve been referring the whole time.
Via what rules? Cite me on VSBW rules where it says that. That’s just a headcanon you made.
Destroying is sometimes not just changing the shape. Also losing power is the most logical outcome, as if Megaweapon never lost its power, then why Time Paradox would be solved, if its power is still present? Just like when IW Nadakhan lost his power due to power-nullifying Tiger Widow Venom, all of his magic disappeared. We don’t see him exploding or anything.
Never once I said MegaWeapon was erased.
If it wasn’t, Time Paradox would never be solved.
If they still had their power, then Megaweapon would still have it too, meaning non-solved Time Paradox. Covered in the blog.
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Again, it should be above Universal Level+ destruction due to destroying Time Element. I already covered that, and you ignored it 100 times. Stop being ignorant.
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This in fact changes EVERYTHING
No lol, I already proved my claim. Nice try
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Oh man, please tell me there isn’t gonna be another 11 pages of this.
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Unless staff decide to solve the matter, yes, expect 11 pages
Minaaaa
She/Her- 521
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- #65
Again, nothing implies the MW lost power, ur stretching statements for the sake of powerscaling.
The second half of season 1 has the ninja going to get the dragon cores to stop the mergequakes. Why would they need them if they already stop them already?
None of the scans you guys sent support that the merge is even tier 2 in the first place.
See above
Something being stated over and over doesnt make it fact. You can have as many statments as you want, still doesnt mean ANYTHING. If you cannot answer simple questions such as, How are they destroying them? Then the feat cannot remain. Are they destroying it by killing all life? Not a feat. Are they destroying it through their takeover of all the lands? not a feat. You see what i mean? These statements are utterly useless unless we have context onto how they are doing it.
then it disproves your notion of it getting depowered. why would the weapons depower it, only to power it up again to destroy it?
See above
You guys were very persistant last thread that the mega weapon got erased from existence. wonder what changed
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Hum...maybe because each time they stop one, another set of 2 Realms tries to Merge togheter later on?
How does that even debunk the feat ?The ED and its Space Time which was affected by the Merge left the chat
Keep dodging the blog tbh
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Already explained and showed with IW Nadakhan example.
They stop ONE Mergequake when closing it. They prevent ANY Mergequake from ever occurring again with Core Dragons thing.
It’s like stopping tornado AND stopping ANY tornado from ever occurring ever again.
Argumentum ad nauseum.
Destroying Realms is straight up statement as it goes. Can’t see how it means ruling over it. Unless it is specified that erasing life is meant and NOT the Realms, then it is assumed that Onis will destroy all of the Realms. This is how this wiki works. When you have statement “I can destroy universes” and both narrative and logics support it, then you do NOT assume that they are just destroying the life. You assume that they destroy universes. You just strawmanned all of the statements.
And again, I already proved why it scales above Universal Level+.
When I said collision powered it up again? You are now saying things I never said.
Link me to where I said that.
If somebody knew how this wiki worked, did not commit multiple fallacies and didn’t ignore the arguments (especially the blog which was created in order to sum up all of our counter-arguments and prevent such a mess in the first place), we would be done in one page.
Robespierre_Isidore
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With this group of people, it's probable.
Minaaaa
She/Her- 521
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- #70
If the Merge isnt tier 2, then the mergequakes wouldnt be tier 2. It was YOUR words that said it was only the locations, not the space-time. Youd be saying a single mergequakes is infinitely more powerful than the thing that caused it.
Destroying a universe gets you 3-A at a minimum, not Low 2-C. Youre arguing full destruction of space-time because... they said they can destroy the realm? We know their destruction isnt literal based off of Wu's statment and the show so the destroying realms statement is invalid.
If the MW was depowered, then how did it get destroyed? How did the GW's destroy the MW?
Ninjago's Tiering Problem
Doesn't apply to Ninjago, ur using a whole different verse for your reasoning Why? I'm not telling you "look, this verse does it, so it's the same here" but rather "this wiki sometimes accepts that some abilities and resistances are higher than the character tier, take 2 examples that I'm not...
Ninjago's Tiering Problem
Doesn't apply to Ninjago, ur using a whole different verse for your reasoning Why? I'm not telling you "look, this verse does it, so it's the same here" but rather "this wiki sometimes accepts that some abilities and resistances are higher than the character tier, take 2 examples that I'm not...
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The Mergequake alone is 2-C via being a place where two Realms merge. Merge is what caused it, so it would be above it. Simple.
You never saw a mergequake before the Merge. And Lloyd literally said Mergequakes are AFTERSHOCKS of the original Merge, implying that Merge is the very reason they are occurring.
So look, we have multiple statements that they will destroy all of the Realms and that nothing will be left behind, as from what LloydBlitzed sent. "Nothing will be left behind" should already imply time wouldn't be there too. I already proved above that Time Element would be destroyed too, which is at the very least Low 2-C.
One of definitions of word "destroy": "to damage something so badly that it cannot be used". Covered in the blog that you never bother to read, by the way.
Also, there is a difference between Megaweapon that Garmadon had and Megaweapon tha twas formed by collision of the original Megaweapon and Golden Weapons. The destruction of the former was required to solve time paradox, not the latter.
These are about it getting destroyed, not erased. I'm fully confirming that I was always saying Megaweapon was destroyed. I ackowledged that in my blog, what do you mean?Ninjago's Tiering Problem
Doesn't apply to Ninjago, ur using a whole different verse for your reasoning Why? I'm not telling you "look, this verse does it, so it's the same here" but rather "this wiki sometimes accepts that some abilities and resistances are higher than the character tier, take 2 examples that I'm not...vsbattles.com
Ninjago's Tiering Problem
Doesn't apply to Ninjago, ur using a whole different verse for your reasoning Why? I'm not telling you "look, this verse does it, so it's the same here" but rather "this wiki sometimes accepts that some abilities and resistances are higher than the character tier, take 2 examples that I'm not...
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Agreed
Minaaaa
She/Her- 521
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- #73
The merge with your statements of it only being the locations = Merge being 3-A/High 3-A
Mergequakes by your statments = single mergequake being 2-C
You see how this doesnt make sense?
None of these statements imply what you think they do. Even if we were to take these statements as literally as possible, its only 3-A. Ive asked several times "How are they destroying the realms" you gave no answer. If this simple question cannot be answers, then they simply dont scale to 2-C.
For example; lets say character A can destroy the world. We are given no information on how they do it, just that they can, can we still scale them to 5-B? obviously no since the feat is vague but once we add context to it, it can be used. If they can do it via surface wipe, then its not 5-B, actually destroying the entire planet, then 5-B, Not even destroying the planet, just destroying it through other means like a disease or war, not even a feat.
Another example; Lets say character B can destroying the universe. Now again we ask, how are they doing it? They can do it through their gradual conquest of the universe or through an omni-directional blast or through destroying the entire space-time of the universe, but since we have no way of telling which one it is, we cant scale it.
This is ultimately my point, we DONT KNOW HOW they are doing it, just that they ARE.
Now, lets apply this same principal to The Oni. The Oni are destroying the realms. They are doing it by ??? something. Now, we know from the show, The Oni were spreading out and covering the realms' land in the darkness. We arent given any other information other than this. Thats why i offered the other suggestion of having as a possibly rating.
Also time element isnt even Low 2-C and is just space-time hax, dk why you guys keep saying it is
Those things arent mutally exclusive, hell Garmadon on his profile has EE for being able to destroy anything but thats besides the point.
Im saying that saying "The MW was destroyed and became a star" and saying "The MW was made powerless" doesnt line up with what you guys have been previously stated.
If 1 is true, then the its the result of 8 weapons and not 4 that made the star, thus the Low 4-C rating.
If 2 is true, then the we know that it was a combined attack depower the MW, but then that the MW also created a star through ??? something.
The Low 4-C was a middle ground between the two, to where they scale to it, but on a lower scale. But if you cant accept a slight tier drop, then i see no reason to keep going on endless rants
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You forget the main thing: Mergequakes are the result of the Merge, meaning that the Merge is what caused them, which is why Merge is far above mergequakes... it literally caused the,.
"Onis will destroy all the Realms" "Nothing will be left behind" are you serious right now?
I already explained why it should already be above Low 2-C via Time Element argument which you blatantly ignore.
Also, what is the definition of 2-C, may I remind you?
What would Onis do? Destroy a small multiverse which is comprised of several space-time continuums which range from two to a thousand (15 Realms total).
Give me a rule on VSBW where it says "if the feat is done by unknown attack, then you can ignore this feat and pretend it never existed".
Also, we do indeed know it is done via their power: Destruction. It doesn't matter whether it is an explosion, an omni-directional blast, a projectile, etc. It still destroys 15 Realms. We also know it would wipe out Creation as LloydBlitzed sent.
"We don't know how they doing the feat = they don't scale to it" is something you will never show as valid no matter what.
Again, we do have a context: they would destroy FSM's power, they would wipe out Creation, and there is nothing more clear than "destroying Realms". Nothing will be left behind. Everything is going to be in "Darkness" (figuratively). Just do basic 2+2. It's very sufficient evidence that they would indeed destroy all of the Realmsm literally.
Again, not knowing the name of the attack of how they are doing it =/= we pretend the feat doesn't exist, they are just destroying the Realms by an unknown attack.
Are you going to ignore what we sent with LloydBlitzed? Really??
Which is not reasonable in any case no matter how you look at it. It's straight up 2-C.
And don't you think that by adding "possibly" you are doing a "compromise" we would agree on. I will never accept such a downplay for such obvious statements, no matter what. And, as I said, I will make sure that the whole verse will get downgraded to Wall Level if this logic really passes.
Oh, I think now I get it! You guys are simply not familiar with what is accepted as "significantly affecting" on this wiki. Let me help you then!
"Significantly affect" is here used as an umbrella term for feats that don't involve direct creation or destruction but are comparable to them in power, such as warping and distorting the entirety of the structure in question, sustaining its existence with energy, merging the structure with another one, etc.
But wait! We have another note on the exact same page!
"Note that merging universes/realms does not necessarily warrant a Tier 2 rating, unless said universes/realms are provably separate spacetimes."
Realms being separate spacetimes was explained on the original Ninjago Attack Potency upgrade.
So now, you should understand that warping/merging is not a hax, it is an Attack Potency, as current Tiering System says. However, if you disagree: that's fine! You can have your own opinion. However, unless you make a website-wide CRT which will change those, then you would need to acknowledge that warping/merging is indeed something that can warrant a Tier. This is a policy of this wiki, and you have to obey it.
So, why exactly Time Element is Low 2-C?
Omega states that the FSM’s power will be gone. What did FSM create via his powers? Multiple Realms as revealed in DR. Also do not forget that Time is an element which was controlled by FSM, thus being part of his powers, and even small portion of Time Power can warp the very fabric of spacetime continuum, and it is also heavily implied that Time Twins can destroy the very fabric of space-time too.
Also, destruction is opposide of power of creation as stated by WoG and heavily implied in the show.
Destroy is not same as erase, agreed.
I was never fan of that.
It literally does, the WHOLE BLOG is around that, can you, for Ninjago sake, finally read it?
Not what happened; again, if it was result of 8 weapons, Megaweapon would still remain its power thus no solvage of time paradox.
Golden Weapons created it, because, logically, if Megaweapon was depowered, it was Golden Weapons job to create it. Megaweapon only made a star in a sense it became it.
To which I disagree with.
Because I don't see it reasonable for the current Ninjago Tiering to have a slight tier drop. All of your arguments were debunked. Why should I accept that?
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If you acknowledge the mergequake feat as potential 3-A, would you accept that as a new rating for closing them?
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The Merge is Tier 2 via affecting the ED too, it just didn't affect the other Realms Space-Times
Destroying a 4D Universe (Litterally Ninjago Realms case) is baseline Low 2-C at minimum because guess what? The Realms themselves represent a entire Space-Time continuum. Read the rules before making claims like this
Dimension scans implies higher tbh
Minaaaa
She/Her- 521
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- #78
Im trying to get at is that The Merge is 2-C and didnt only combine the locations as you said.
I never said it didnt exist, im saying its unquantifiable.
If we dont know, the feat is simply unquantifiable. We dont know if they are even destroying anything or even actually destroying space time.
"Nothing will be left" doesnt imply anything. Especially when we literally SEE what the oni are doing on the screen. Please go back and actually watch the series.
Unquantifiable then or the lowest possible interpretation, which is 3-A/High 3-A.
1. We literally know the FSM didnt create the entire realm of ninjago,
2. none of these back up anything about how theyre doing it
The Omega is clearly talking about Ninjago (The land), since that is what he created... We know "FSM creating ninjago realm" was just him creating the land of ninjago, so why should we assume he can create space-times now?
Onto the Time Twins, warping space-time is NOT an AP feat unless its the entire thing. Tons of characters have space-time hax and arent Low 2-C, so bringing them up is completely nonsensical.
What? The combined power of them destroyed the MW, cmon man
And how did it create it? We've now looped around again
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Honestly I still don't see how merging two universes feat is not recognized at 2-C and is just "3-A". Same as destroying multiple universes. It's just straight up like that...
