Potential Ninjago God Tier Upgrade

[Lloydblitzed]

Trying something another verse has tried. This argument should raise every Low 1-Cs to 1-C

Spoiler: The Argument

The Ethereal Divide is described as an interdimensional ethereal realm which seperates all of the Realms of Creation, which is clarified here. As explained in the cosmology blog, the Realms of Creation are composed of several 5-Dimensional universes of infinite size. In order for the Divide to contain these 5D Universes, who are parallel to each other and do not interact, it would require displacement along a higher-dimensional axis, namely an additional spatial dimension those present in the Realm.

In Season 5, while Yang trapped the Ninjas and his entire temple inside the Divide (which is implied once he started locking doors and confirmed a few minutes later by Zane), we see a clock working and updating the time, doing so minutes after they nearly fell into the Divide too, implying that time exists in the Ethereal Divide. Morever, the term "Realm" in this verse is traditionally used to describe space-time continuums as shown with the Realms, so it should also possess a temporal dimension, and not be treated as insignificant

This would upscale the Ethereal Divide to 6D, and raise every god tiers of Ninjago to that lvl of power due to them being able to affect/destroy the Multiverse, which would require them to affect the Divide to affect other Realms, or chainscale to characters capable of doing so

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Lort15]

Agree (didn't even read/j)

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Agree (didn't even read/j)

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Bro wants Kai to box Zeno again

 

[Lort15]

Bro wants Kai to box Zeno again

you owe me a popeyes if this happens

 

[Mbpoops]

Following

 

[Qawsedf234]

Having time while separating spaces does not make the realm significant size in all spatial axis. It's why a multiverse space that contains multiple infinitely-sized 4D spaces isn't Low 1-C.

So this proposal doesn't make sense to me.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Every multiverse is Low 1-C for containing Tier 2 universes yay (disagree FRA)

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Having time while separating spaces does not make the realm significant size in all spatial axis. It's why a multiverse space that contains multiple infinitely-sized 4D spaces isn't Low 1-C.

So this proposal doesn't make sense to me.

Doesn't a space containing universes that are parallel to each other makes it higher spatially? And if time is proven to exist in such space, it gives a tierable result

 

[StrymULTRA]

Doesn't a space containing universes that are parallel to each other makes it higher spatially?

The same way a space containing a 2-A multiverse is not Low 1-C due to said 5D axis not being assumed to be significant unless statements hinting at so.

 

[Thermor]

The same way a space containing a 2-A multiverse is not Low 1-C due to said 5D axis not being assumed to be significant unless statements hinting at so.

I think the OP was using time existing in the space to prove the size being significant, similar to Dragon Ball's neutral zone.

Dragon Ball Cosmology

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Vesxpura]

Disagree, this was addressed in the faq. At best this just makes the eternal divide a space time contiuum. which it already was. Nothing suggests its a higher temporal axis(which makes it 6D). they could just be using the temporal dimension as the smaller realms.

Also proving time exists through the use of clocks is completely redundant and ludicrous. As any action done within space assume time exists unless proven otherwise. This goes for higher dimensions too.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Doesn't a space containing universes that are parallel to each other makes it higher spatially? And if time is proven to exist in such space, it gives a tierable result

By itself no. The space itself must be universe sized on its own while embedding the space-time structure of the lower realities. Just separating them can be done without requiring a significant axis.

 

[Thermor]

By itself no. The space itself must be universe sized on its own while embedding the space-time structure of the lower realities. Just separating them can be done without requiring a significant axis.

So what's make this different than Dragon Ball's neutral zone?

 

[Vesxpura]

So what's make this different than Dragon Ball's neutral zone?

From what ive read, it has a different new time dimension. so its not the same one as the 12 macrocosms

 

[Lloydblitzed]

By itself no. The space itself must be universe sized on its own while embedding the space-time structure of the lower realities. Just separating them can be done without requiring a significant axis.

The ED should be as big as the Realms if its capable of containing them, and its status as a "Realm" should support its Universal (well, Multiversal here) size.

From what ive read, it has a different new time dimension. so its not the same one as the 12 macrocosms

The Divide also has its own independant time dimension as we see its still its own independant structure from the Realms even after the Merge event which fused all 17 Realms

Prentis: There! We've ported them off to wake up in the lands formerly known as the Cursed Realm, which is where they're originally from. Probably.

Arin: Excuse me? What is this place?

Prentis: Department of Reassignment. We deal with interstitial space bubbles.

Arin: Space bubbles?

Prentis: A form of stasis. During the Merge, some people were shuffled into pockets of the Nothing Space between what used to be the realms.

Arin: And you find these people?

Prentis: Not on purpose. But when teleporting, Administration Agents sometimes bump into pockets of these Nothing Space Merge refugees. It becomes our department's job to send them back where they originally came from.

 

[Vesxpura]

The Divide also has its own independant time dimension as we see its still its own independant structure from the Realms even after the Merge event which fused all 17 Realms

Thats not the problem. being an indepedent temporal axis is fine. but the problem is, its not a NEW temporal axis. meaning time doesnt travel in any new direction compared to the direction of conventional time. hence its the same quality of dimension which doesnt qualify for significance

 

[Qawsedf234]

So what's make this different than Dragon Ball's neutral zone?

• It has galaxies and other cosmological structures
• The Macrocosmos are all embedded within it
• It has a seperate temporal direction than the Macrocosmos

All the OP has showed here is that there's a separation space that happens to have time. Which is what any 2-C+ structure has.

The ED should be as big as the Realms if its capable of containing them, and its status as a "Realm" should support its Universal (well, Multiversal here) size.

Do you have evidence of this or is it conjecture? Just being 5D with an insignificant 6th Dimension would already let it fill all the needed criteria for the tiering system.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Do you have evidence of this or is it conjecture? Just being 5D with an insignificant 6th Dimension would already let it fill all the needed criteria for the tiering system.

It stated to be "Realm". Realm in Ninjago means infinite-sized universe

 

[Skoo30]

it would require displacement along a higher-dimensional axis, namely an additional spatial dimension those present in the Realm.

Neutral on 1-C, I think it could be just a higher infinity (for example how the set of all odd numbers is smaller than all numbers but both are infinite) I think possibly 1-C would work better, given what's currently accepted for the verse.

My main contention would be the realms being infinitely sized being from Way of the Departed since iirc Tommy said it was non canon but since it's accepted for the cosmology page it would be a separate thread and i assume there's been reasoning in an older thread for it counting towards the canon i won't give disagreement over it,

If it becomes Possibly 1-C then agree

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Do you have evidence of this or is it conjecture? Just being 5D with an insignificant 6th Dimension would already let it fill all the needed criteria for the tiering system.

At an absolute minimum, we saw the Ninjas using the Divide to travel to the most distant universe of all of the Realms, which would require the Divide to stretch to Universal sizes for such travels to be possible

Wu: According to legend, it is the most distant and remote of all realms. My father only spoke of it to me once... (He stops and the ninja bump into each other.) in warning. (He continues walking.) He told me of all the realms of Creation, it was the one I should never visit. He told me it was a cold and dangerous place. He forbade it.

I will address the rest later

My main contention would be the realms being infinitely sized being from Way of the Departed since iirc Tommy said it was non canon but since it's accepted for the cosmology page it would be a separate thread and i assume there's been reasoning in an older thread for it counting towards the canon i won't give disagreement over it,

If it becomes Possibly 1-C then agree

Oh yeah he has said this in the past, but changed its status to could be canon later, and the new writer said we can consider anything that doesn't really contradict the show canon, which is what Way of the Departed fall into

 

[Qawsedf234]

At an absolute minimum, we saw the Ninjas using the Divide to travel to the most distant universe of all of the Realms, which would require the Divide to stretch to Universal sizes for such travels to be possible

I think you're misunderstanding spatial concepts. Traveling through distance universes can be done through an insignificant 6D axis. The zone being (Infinite, infinite, infinite, infinite, infinite, 2) would give it an infinite range over everything from 0 to 1.9999 repeating. That doesn't make it 6-D.

It stated to be "Realm". Realm in Ninjago means infinite-sized universe

You're missing my point here. To quote the FAQ

Q: Are wiki-induced dimensions included in cosmology statements?

A: For indexing purposes, the cosmological structures in a work are assumed to be the bare minimum size required to adhere to both the source material and the tiering system. For example, a multiverse containing several or even infinite universes, is assumed to be a fourth-dimensional structure with an insignificant fifth-dimensional axis, as this is the minimum requirement to bridge the fiction's cosmology with our technical framework. General statements from the work regarding an 'infinite multiverse' or 'infinite space or volume' do not apply to these wiki-induced insignificant dimensions. Since authors are typically unaware of the technicalities used by the wiki to organize Tier 2 or higher structures, their statements should not be assumed to expand upon mechanics that were never established in-verse.

Having said that, if the author notes these higher-dimensional axis within a size statement or alternatively indicates that they're comparable in scope to other known infinite structures, then they can also be assumed to be infinite as well. As this is expanding on the work's known dimensional structures rather than a wiki-induced dimensional structure.

By being just a bigger 5D space, this realm can accomplish everything you're suggesting by being 4D+1+Partial. You need to show that this sixth dimensional axis is one of infinite magnitude and that's not being done here.

So like I said to my understanding this is just Low 1-C

Q: Why is Tier 2 split for individual structures and not Tier 1?
A: For most of fiction, Tier 2 is the common endpoint or largest cosmological structure. Due to the volume of profiles that have this be the endpoint, splitting the 4D Cosmological structures was considered a better way to index profiles. With that said, almost all higher tiers follow the exact same standards as the Tier 2 ratings. To illustrate: if a character destroys three universes, they'd be rated at 2-C, while a character that has destroyed an infinite amount would be rated as 2-A. For Low 1-C all instances are put together, but there is still a power gap between them; so a character who's destroyed an infinite amount of fifth-dimensional universes would be superior to a character who's destroyed a singular fifth-dimensional space for the same reason why a 2-A character is superior to a Low 2-C character

 

[Skoo30]

Oh yeah he has said this in the past, but changed its status to could be canon later, and the new writer said we can consider anything that doesn't really contradict the show canon, which is what Way of the Departed fall into

I'd probably say that it would still be could be canon regardless because Doc has said that if Tommy says something that goes against what he said regarding stuff before dragons rising Tommy is the one we should assume is right

At an absolute minimum, we saw the Ninjas using the Divide to travel to the most distant universe of all of the Realms, which would require the Divide to stretch to Universal sizes for such travels to be possible

I'm pretty sure the Dragon's portals lead to the Ethereal Divide as well so the one at the end of the episode before green destiny would also work going from the first realm to ninjago

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I think you're misunderstanding spatial concepts. Traveling through distance universes can be done through an insignificant 6D axis. The zone being (Infinite, infinite, infinite, infinite, infinite, 2) would give it an infinite range over everything from 0 to 1.9999 repeating. That doesn't make it 6-D.

The temporal dimension should be independent from the other Realms as the Divide is still implied to be its own space even after every parallel Realms (Universes if you want) merged togheter and was not fused with them

Edit: Nothing Space and Ethereal Divide are the same thing, just called differently by the Administration and other characters. We can see the ED serving the "in between space Realm crossing" purpose several times

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I think you're misunderstanding spatial concepts. Traveling through distance universes can be done through an insignificant 6D axis. The zone being (Infinite, infinite, infinite, infinite, infinite, 2) would give it an infinite range over everything from 0 to 1.9999 repeating. That doesn't make it 6-D.

Bump?

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

I've been absent for a looooong time. Hello there!

Isn't Ethereal Divide contains all of space, time, dimensionality and concepts related to such things? SD's exist beyond these things while in their symbolic forms beyond ED, but if they are taking mortal forms (entering ED -> Entering Merged Realms) they are suddenly not. Shouldn't it grant ED status of sorta all-containing?

 

[Planck69]

Qawsedf already said what needed to be said. This is just Low 1-C.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Qawsedf already said what needed to be said. This is just Low 1-C.

The temporal dimension should be independent from the other Realms as the Divide is still implied to be its own space even after every parallel Realms (Universes if you want) merged togheter and was not fused with them

Edit: Nothing Space and Ethereal Divide are the same thing, just called differently by the Administration and other characters. We can see the ED serving the "in between space Realm crossing" purpose several times

What about this? Its shown to be its own seperate independant space/time with a multiversal wide event not wrecking anything inside the ED

 

[Planck69]

The core issue has little to do with any of that. You have to prove that the Divide is significantly sized across all of its dimensional axes. It can be infinite in 5 axes and 1 cm across in the sixth and still allow for all of the above to happen.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The core issue has little to do with any of that. You have to prove that the Divide is significantly sized across all of its dimensional axes. It can be infinite in 5 axes and 1 cm across in the sixth and still allow for all of the above to happen.

When the others were talking about the Neutral Zone earlier in the thread and comparing it to this case, Qawsef mentionned this

• It has galaxies and other cosmological structures
• The Macrocosmos are all embedded within it
• It has a seperate temporal direction than the Macrocosmos

The ED both contains every single of the 17 Realms and seperate them (One of the clips earlier even mentions the ED has its own space bubbles), and has a Temporal Direction seperate from every single other Realms as the Merge now confirms it, and individual sister Realms can be obliderated without every other Realms collasping.

Nadakhan: It is the most beautiful place you've ever seen. But why tell you, when I can show you? (He uses the Realm Crystal and arrives at Djinjago, only to find it falling apart.) What? What is happening?

Clancee: Th-Th-This isn't beautiful, Captain.

Khanjikhan: So my son returns in our final hours.

Nadakhan: What plague has begotten our realm?

Khanjikhan: Our sister realm has been destroyed.

Nadakhan: The Cursed Realm is no more?

Khanjikhan: As you know, the Sixteen Realms are interconnected and the balance affects us all. When one falls, another falls apart. Every action has a consequence.

So the 6th Axis (Temporal one) should be significant too

 

[Planck69]

When the others were talking about the Neutral Zone earlier in the thread and comparing it to this case, Qawsef mentionned this

The ED both contains every single of the 17 Realms and seperate them (One of the clips earlier even mentions the ED has its own space bubbles), and has a Temporal Direction seperate from every single other Realms as the Merge now confirms it, and individual sister Realms can be obliderated without every other Realms collasping.



So the 6th Axis (Temporal one) should be significant too

1. You forgot to bold one of the main requirements there, significant size. Containing the realms is irrelevant, I already said that this is achievable with an insignificant sized 6th axis.

2. Realms not affecting each other just proves basic spatial separation for them, which is already accepted.

3. Dragon Ball isn't Ninjago. It has its own context that's separate from here.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

1. You forgot to bold one of the main requirements there, significant size. Containing the realms is irrelevant, I already said that this is achievable with an insignificant sized 6th axis.

2. Realms not affecting each other just proves basic spatial separation for them, which is already accepted.

Nadakhan has moved an entire library outside the timestream of Ninjago, which would land him inside the Divide, to fight Wu and returned it back into the Ninjago Realm timeline later on off screen as shown when the Ninjas came to explore it, which means he has manipulated time inside the ED which shouldn't really be possible if the 6th Axis (temporal one) was insignificant

 

[Lloydblitzed]

1. You forgot to bold one of the main requirements there, significant size. Containing the realms is irrelevant, I already said that this is achievable with an insignificant sized 6th axis.

2. Realms not affecting each other just proves basic spatial separation for them, which is already accepted.

3. Dragon Ball isn't Ninjago. It has its own context that's separate from here.

Bump ig?

 

[Robo432343]

Disagree with Low 1-C FRA

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Disagree with Low 1-C FRA

The thread isn't even about making the ED Low 1-C?

 

[Robo432343]

The thread isn't even about making the ED Low 1-C?

i disagree with the hypertimeline and the 4-C rating but thats for another time

 

[Lloydblitzed]

i disagree with the hypertimeline and the 4-C rating but thats for another time

4-C Ninjago thread for the 5th time?

 

[VladimirMakarov317]

i disagree with the hypertimeline and the 4-C rating but thats for another time

What's the issue with hypertimeline

 

[Lloydblitzed]

1. You forgot to bold one of the main requirements there, significant size. Containing the realms is irrelevant, I already said that this is achievable with an insignificant sized 6th axis.

2. Realms not affecting each other just proves basic spatial separation for them, which is already accepted.

3. Dragon Ball isn't Ninjago. It has its own context that's separate from here.

Bump

Nadakhan has moved an entire library outside the timestream of Ninjago, which would land him inside the Divide, to fight Wu and returned it back into the Ninjago Realm timeline later on off screen as shown when the Ninjas came to explore it, which means he has manipulated time inside the ED which shouldn't really be possible if the 6th Axis (temporal one) was insignificant

 

[Planck69]

Nadakhan has moved an entire library outside the timestream of Ninjago, which would land him inside the Divide, to fight Wu and returned it back into the Ninjago Realm timeline later on off screen as shown when the Ninjas came to explore it, which means he has manipulated time inside the ED which shouldn't really be possible if the 6th Axis (temporal one) was insignificant

Are you arguing that this new axis is temporal? If so then this is even flimsier than the prior examples. Just manipulating time in inter-dimensional space isn't proof of that.