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DISCLAMER: Althought this CRT seems very big, its actually very simple (plz don't get discouraged😭🙏)

Ok so many characters in the Ninjago (all have them) have been really ditched in terms of Attack Potency, Strength and Durability (the WHOLE VERSE IS DEPENDENT ON ONE MORRO FEAT) and there are some feats that massively upscales the Ninjas
I'll make another CRT for Strength and Durability tho

Attack Potency:

Ok so I'll seperate it this section in 2 parts here bc Dragon Rising really affects their AP
  • Dragon Rising (Specifically for Kai, Zane, Lloyd and Nya)
So in Dragon Rising, Kai and Lloyd were able to close a Mergequake (Kai did it offscreen here and Lloyd did it many times like in here) which is basically an AP feat right here.
A Mergequake is an aftermath of the Merge (which, in short, merged all the Realms togheter) where 2 entire Realms tries to share the same space

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Supported by this statement too
But that's not it!

Mergequakes have been stated multiple times to be able to affect the realms and even destroy them (Context: The world is clearly referring to the Merged Realms)
This means that a single Mergequake affects 2 Universal+ sized Realms and cause them to try and share a same space, thus closing one should give Kai and Lloyd (Post Power Drain form) Universal+ Attack Potency, as they are stopping 2 Universal+ sized realms to collide with each other.

"But how are the Realms Universal+ sized🤔"


The Realm of Ninjago is referred as a dimension
image.png


The Ninjago Realm contains a Space Time
Screenshot_Capture_-_2023-08-16_-_09-10-33.png

As well as being infinite in size via this statement from Way of the Departed (Source: Way Of Departed Chapter 9, from Twitter)
image.png

Way Of Departed can be considered canon via these tweets
image.png

image.png

(Sources: First tweet | Second Tweet)

All Realms are equal in size via this statement from the Cloud Kingdom, which means the previous scans applies to all the other Realms
main-qimg-decb29716c0a6d3c8d65a360f1364469-lq.png

main-qimg-6bcd15236dc6e467ef516decdbace558-lq.png

main-qimg-ecea2c8cd46cb70290ed4f7def084e4d-lq.png


This is overall is acceptable by VSBW's standarts: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Universe#Universe-sized_Realms_Guidelines
  • If the size of the realms described has having infinite sizes or other synonyms, that should strongly indicate them being universes.
  • If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

Now back to Attack Potency, Kai closing a mergequake would also scale to Nya and Zane's AP. Here is why:

Nya was able to knock away and harm the Earth Dragons here, who tanked a fire blast from Kai. This would scale Nya's AP to Universal+ too
Zane was able to neutralize and overpower Kai's fire in this clip , giving him Universal+ Attack Potency too

P.S: U could argue Cole has Universal+ AP too since he could one shot Sora who is comparable to Nya

I also think we should add a seperate key for their Dragon Rising selves within their profiles to avoid some confusions in the website (More specifically, for Cole, Lloyd, Kai, Zane and Nya)

  • Pre Dragon Rising (For Jay, Cole and everyone else except Overlord and FSM who has feats before Dragon Rising)
In the pilots episodes, the Ninjas were all able to tank an explosion from the 4 Golden Weapons. The 4 Golden Weapons were shown to be able to create a star in space.
"B-but this was 8 weapons not 4"
It was stated that a set of 4 golden weapons were needed to destroy the other set of 4 golden weapons since they had equal power. Thismeans that they did not fuse and it would also mean that a set of 4 golden weapons would scale to Star

This feat should scale to the Ninjas Attack Potency via:
Jay's lightning harming the Ninjas
Cole overpowering and harming Jay
Nya harming and overpowering Jay
Kai equalizing with Jay's lightning

Lloyd would also scale to the weapons by fightning on par with Reborn Garmadon who is stronger then his past self who tanked an explosion from the 4 Golden Weapons and can wisthand their power too


"B-but that makes no sense, OUTLIERRRR!!🤓"
Well suprise suprise....we got other ways to get the Ninja's AP to Star:

As we know it, Lloyd was able to fight off Garmadon, who already scale to the Golden Weapons, which made a star
Lloyd should scale to the 4 Golden Weapons, as stated here that he have the powers of the 4 Golden Weapons, and this even before he obtained the Ninja's true potential at the Temple of Light. This Season 11 scan also supports that he can still use all the main 4 powers (in the form of energy ofc)
Its also to not he did not loose that power after he gave the Ninjas their powers back, but only gave back the rest of his GOLDEN POWER
image.png


And Lloyd can still harness the main elemental powers like Zane said via these statements (Keep in mind this statement was made after Seabound)
image.png

image.png


He is also the only one STRONG ENOUGH to fight S8 Garmadon, supporting my arguments even more, and indicating that Lloyd would still scale to the Golden Weapons via Garmadon
image0.jpg


So with all this, we can confidently say Post Power Drain Lloyd is Star
"
Ok that's cool, but why would it scale to the other ninjas?" Well the answer is pretty simple (its not)

Grief-Bringer could wisthand a full blast from Lloyd back in S13 before eventually getting destroyed (he still regenerated afterwards anyways)
This feat would scale to all the Ninjas (specifically Cole and Jay here) since:

Cole could harm Kalmaar, who can harm Kai, who tanked an hit from Grief-Bringer
Jay could harm Kai, who tanked an hit from Grief-Bringer

P.S: the reason Jay isn't getting any Universal+ scaling or stuff is because he has no feats in Dragon Rising at the moment

We could also apply the Star rating to the villains as they can all fight off and harm the Ninjas. Additionally, I think we should add the Ice Emperor form to Zane's profile (he easly scale off Lloyd) and the Spinjitzu Burst form to Cole (Would scale to Lloyd too via Vangelis scaling off to Lloyd who scale to Grief - Bringer)

FSM AND OVERLORD
Ok so the FSM and Overlord page should be massively updated via some feats.
In Dragon Rising it was revealed The First Spinjitzu Master created multiples Realms which is an easy 2-C for FSM


This would scale to the Overlord's Golden Master form too as he absorbed 90% of Ultimate Spinjitzu Master Lloyd's power (who are obviously comparable to the FSM and he was also stated to be above his Dragon Form), to Overlord's Dragon Form (as he could fight USM Lloyd) and Crystal King (As he stated he acheived the "perfect vessel")

Oni Lloyd
Lloyd should get a seperate key for his Oni form since he could harm down the Crystal King, which would put him at 2-C

Wojira and Merged with Sea Nya:

I think we should add a profile for Wojira and add a Merged with Sea key for Nya. Wojira is capable of flooding the entire planet in water (She used to rule over the world using it), which should put her at least Country Level. (via this calc) She would even scale higher since she created and lifted the Moon (offscreen) as said in Way of Departed (Class Z Lifting Strength feat btw)
image.png

This would put Wojira to at least Moon Level, and up to Star Level, since she could fight reletive to Nya, who at the time scaled to Star (due to reasons explained above) . Its also stated by the author that Nya in her Merged with Sea Form is 42x stronger then Wojira
IMG_4809.png

This would put Merged with Sea Nya to Large Star Level

Comic Garmadon + Moon Tea Multiplier

Ok so I think we should add a seperate key for Comic Garmadon in the Lord Garmadon profile. In the Garmadon Comics (which are canon), Garmadon was able to one shot Mogra, who already drank 5 Moon Tea by then
6cmKeay.png

gyhVdzi.png

4wV0Vht.png


A single Moon Tea cup has a x10 multiplier
The Moon Tea is also shown to consistanly boost the user's powers, making this multiplier valid and consistant
"B-but Mogra is not a ghost, Djinn, Oni or Dragon, its inconsistant🤓"
The x10 amp scan specified that the amp works on OTHERWORDLY creature, meaning Mogra is not human, bc its even said the multiplier doesn't work on humans but it did on Mogra

So: 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 100 000x
This would make Comics Garmadon 100 000 times stronger then his Reborn Form (more precisely his S8 self before his power peak who scale to Star because of the Golden Weapons), putting his AP to Solar System Level

Reborn Garmadon

Reborn Garmadon should be upgraded to 4-C (via the arguments for the Golden Weapons) at base and up to 2-C at his peak (Emperor Garmadon states he could battle back entire Oni Army, who can cover all the Realms in darkness and destroy everything. He couldn't do it in S10 because he was far weakened and lost that power)

Sensei Wu
In Virtues of Spinjitzu, which can be considered canon via the fact the events does not contradict canon and takes place between The Island and Seabound, Sensei Wu could create a pocket dimension containing a Sun and obviously an Earth like planet (which according to the reference for common feats, is a 4-C feat, and would scale to Wu and to the Ninjas due to being reletive to him).

"Ok, but with what evidence?"
This would get Wu's Attack Potency to Star Level, but u can still scale him off the 4 Golden Weapons since he tanked them

Source Dragon
I think we should add a Source Dragon profile (since they are OP as hell new characters) to the website. The Source Dragons are stronger then the First Spinjitzu Master (explained here) since he required their assistance to stop the Merge, which affected the entire cosmology of Ninjago, including the Ethereal divide, which basically represent the space between the Realms. They would be baseline Low Multiversal, but we could argue them being Low Complex Multiversal, since the Ethereal Divide represent the space between the Realms, who as we remember from earlier, are Universal+ and is used to travel between the Realms, meaning it has to be a Higher Dimensional Space (as it follows these VSBW standarts ), putting the Source Dragons at Low 1-C and at least 2-C. (Tho Low 1-C is a bit high balled, so 2-C would fit bettah)
P.S: We should add a new key in Lloyd's profile for Source Dragon Power Lloyd, since he obtained this new form by gaining all the Source Dragon's powers in Dragon Rising Episode 20

Just in case

A very very very mad lowball for the Ninjas would scale them to Continental Level via this scan which scale the Scythe of Quake to continental (since the ninjas can spar with each other with the weapons, it scales to them)
Using this scale, this would scale Comic Garmadon to Moon Level

Laslty,
I think we should add a profile for: Aspheera, Sora, Arin, Vangelis, Acronix, Krux, Kalmaar, Wojira, Unagami, Omega, Wyldfyre, Mr E and Beatrix based of the new infos from this CRT

Conclusion:
  • Lloyd should have new keys (Dragon Rising, Oni Form and Source Dragon Power) where his Dragon Rising form is Low 2-C and the Source Dragon power one is at least 2-C (possibly Low 1-C)
  • Garmadon should get new keys (Comics Garmadon) which should get an upgrade to 4-A
  • Cole and Jay should be upgraded to 4-C
  • Source Dragon, Aspheera, Sora, Arin, Vangelis, Acronix, Krux, Kalmaar, Wojira, Unagami, Omega, Wyldfyre, Mr E and Beatrix should all get a profile of their own using the infos discussed in the CRT
  • Nya, Kai and Zane should be upgraded to Universal+
  • Post Power Drain Lloyd should be upgraded to 4-C
  • Wu should get upgraded to 4-C via the new Star level feats from the Ninjas
  • Reborn Garmadon should be upgraded to 4-C, with specification he could go up to 2-C with his full powers

Agree: @LifeRiderthe1 @MrUnderlord (agree with everything except Low 1-C Source Dragon) @Dark-Carioca @Dinoanime7 @Starbrand_Fan (Agrees with everything except Low 1-C Source Dragon🤷‍♂️) @MKF4 (Only disagree with Low 1-C Source Dragon) @GarrixianXD @DarkDragonMedeus @FinePoint (Agrees with Tier 4 and Tier 2. Neutral on Low 1-C stuff) @TheOrangeGuy09
Neutral: @Grand_Astartes @Qawsedf234 (Agrees with the Tier 2 part, disagree with the Tier 4 stuff) @Agnaa (On Mergequake part, hasn't evaluated anything else)
Disagree: @Alus83 @Jirachi_the_real_93 @Minaaaa @Zacisawesome101
 
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Couple of things:

 
Couple of things:

  • Firstly, this is a mistake, as in Ninjago dragon rising episode 11, Zane stated that the Mergequakes began to increase, and you can see on the screen that it affected the Realms, and Zane also explained that when they multiply more, they will destroy EVERYTHING. That's an appeal to visuals
  • The GW were only used to cause the destruction of the MW, they did not merge and MW alone would still scale to star. The writer confirmed that it was the destruction of the MW who caused the star, not the 8 weapons togheter
  • Lloyd was stated to be the only one strong enough to fight Reborn Garmadon, who is stronger then his past selve who was powerfull enough to wisthand and use the power of the 4 Golden Weapons
  • The Merge directly scales to the Ethereal Divide as no longer seperates the Realms and encompass them now
 
  • Firstly, this is a mistake, as in Ninjago dragon rising episode 11, Zane stated that the Mergequakes began to increase, and you can see on the screen that it affected the Realms, and Zane also explained that when they multiply more, they will destroy EVERYTHING. That's an appeal to visuals
  • The GW were only used to cause the destruction of the MW, they did not merge and MW alone would still scale to star. The writer confirmed that it was the destruction of the MW who caused the star, not the 8 weapons togheter
  • Lloyd was stated to be the only one strong enough to fight Reborn Garmadon, who is stronger then his past selve who was powerfull enough to wisthand and use the power of the 4 Golden Weapons
  • The Merge directly scales to the Ethereal Divide as no longer seperates the Realms and encompass them now
  • Yes, but this wouldn't scale to an individual mergequake. It took multiple mergequakes happening at once to destroy everything, not a single one.
  • The scan i sent explicitly states 'The Weapons became one and launched into space', so it took 8 of the golden weapons to form the star not 4
 
  • Yes, but this wouldn't scale to an individual mergequake. It took multiple mergequakes happening at once to destroy everything, not a single one.
  • The scan i sent explicitly states 'The Weapons became one and launched into space', so it took 8 of the golden weapons to form the star not 4
  • There are no proofs that an individual mergequake doesn't affect 2 Realms, Zane statements only says multiple can destroy everything, nothing contradicts the fact that an individual mergequake does not affect 2 Realms
  • The scan states that "They used the four Golden Weapons from the past to destroy the Mega Weapon" , and Tommy contradicts the scan too "Then it got destroyed and formed a star", so the 4 weapons from the past caused the MW to be launch into space and form the star (Also Tommy never approved the book from where your scan comes from, so its kinda iffy)
 
Ignoring the obvious grammar and spelling errors (separate is spelled wrong a lot lol). I think Star level is fine for the ninja. Idk about the Low 1-C for the source dragons we would need a CRT for that by itself personally for them and if we can get the divide to 5D. I do agree the merge didn't really effect the divide i feel this could more justify it is a higher dimensional space and sense the realms are 4D we can establish it as another axis and extending past 4D into a possible insignificant 5D to maybe a significant 5D axis. depending how you view it post Dragons Rising. I feel i agree with the Low multi stuff but only those who scale to FSM making the realms and the overlord.

But i bump this
 
I've got problems with the feats this CRT attempts to argue with.

First of all, I don't think we give an AP rating to closing a dimensional gap. Rending dimensions open could be considered an AP feat, but closing one? By the very nature of the action, that isn't an attack. I'm thinking this is just an application of hax with a very long range.

As for the creation feat, I'm less iffy on that but you'd have to prove that the Golden Weapons possess the capacity to employ the constructive power they possess in a destructive sense as well. Creation feats alone do not net you a tier.
 
I've got problems with the feats this CRT attempts to argue with.

First of all, I don't think we give an AP rating to closing a dimensional gap. Rending dimensions open could be considered an AP feat, but closing one? By the very nature of the action, that isn't an attack. I'm thinking this is just an application of hax with a very long range.

As for the creation feat, I'm less iffy on that but you'd have to prove that the Golden Weapons possess the capacity to employ the constructive power they possess in a destructive sense as well. Creation feats alone do not net you a tier.
I gotta ask do you think its space-time manipulation hax? idk all the hax by heart for closing a dimensional gap besides spatial manipulation and space-time manipulation. But wouldn't this mean they still have 4D hax or am i miss understanding it what you mean?

and for the GW we have to show they can also destroy a star and not just create a star? (at least what i am gathering from what you are saying?)
 
I've got problems with the feats this CRT attempts to argue with.

First of all, I don't think we give an AP rating to closing a dimensional gap. Rending dimensions open could be considered an AP feat, but closing one? By the very nature of the action, that isn't an attack. I'm thinking this is just an application of hax with a very long range.

As for the creation feat, I'm less iffy on that but you'd have to prove that the Golden Weapons possess the capacity to employ the constructive power they possess in a destructive sense as well. Creation feats alone do not net you a tier.
Its not only closing a dimensional gap, but preventing the destruction of two 4D sized universes using AP. They can completly stop 2 Realms from sharing a same space, thus this would scale to their AP as they affect the Realms in that way too.
Two realms try to share the same space => Mergequake occurs.
You closed Mergequake => two realms no longer try to share the same space => you affected two realms. Simple

The tiering system also specify Star Creation feat would scale to Star, so the GW are Star anyways and perfectly fit the rules
image.png

Additionally, anyone not strong enough to tank/survive its power gets killed instanly by the Golden Weapons
 
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Well, let's see. The only thing I would like to argue is Low 1-C for source dragons.

I don't think that Ethereal Divide can be referred as higher-dimensional space: yes, this thing encompasses Realms and surrounds them, but in fact Ninjago shown places that appears to be a higher planes (like Grasslands or Source Dragons domain where Lloyd was brought upon using their power).

As I think, Ethereal Divide is just a nondimensional in nature: that's why I feel like it can't be used to scaling in this way. However, considering that SD brought Lloyd to some higher plane, I think that we need to wait a second season of Dragons Rising to see more info about them and only then create their profile.
 
Well, let's see. The only thing I would like to argue is Low 1-C for source dragons.

I don't think that Ethereal Divide can be referred as higher-dimensional space: yes, this thing encompasses Realms and surrounds them, but in fact Ninjago shown places that appears to be a higher planes (like Grasslands or Source Dragons domain where Lloyd was brought upon using their power).

As I think, Ethereal Divide is just a nondimensional in nature: that's why I feel like it can't be used to scaling in this way. However, considering that SD brought Lloyd to some higher plane, I think that we need to wait a second season of Dragons Rising to see more info about them and only then create their profile.
why is the grass lands higher then the divide? if you don't mind me asking. i think the divide is still like a subspace if you will but also not a subspace its a space which encompasses all the realms and post merge its just above this new merged reality like it surrounds this bigger new ninjago if you will.
 
Well, let's see. The only thing I would like to argue is Low 1-C for source dragons.

I don't think that Ethereal Divide can be referred as higher-dimensional space: yes, this thing encompasses Realms and surrounds them, but in fact Ninjago shown places that appears to be a higher planes (like Grasslands or Source Dragons domain where Lloyd was brought upon using their power).

As I think, Ethereal Divide is just a nondimensional in nature: that's why I feel like it can't be used to scaling in this way. However, considering that SD brought Lloyd to some higher plane, I think that we need to wait a second season of Dragons Rising to see more info about them and only then create their profile.
The Divide would be a higher dimensional space in nature via these standarts, so I don't why the Source Dragon wouldn't be Low 1-C here
image.png
 
why is the grass lands higher then the divide? if you don't mind me asking. i think the divide is still like a subspace if you will but also not a subspace its a space which encompasses all the realms and post merge its just above this new merged reality like it surrounds this bigger new ninjago if you will.
Yes, Ethereal Divide encompasses them, but is this truly a higher-dimension to be used as argument for Low 1-C?

We know about this thing very very small part of info. "We are trapped in some interdimensional ethereal realm!" - Zane said. And yet, it's the only thing we know about this place.

We can't say that Ethereal Divide is higher than Realms; In fact they can share a same plane of existence and reality, but Ethereal Divide just exists outside of the realms and thus it surrounds them.
 
The Divide would be a higher dimensional space in nature via these standarts, so I don't why the Source Dragon wouldn't be Low 1-C here
image.png
Ethereal Divide should be higher-dimensional in nature (which I personally doubt) to be an argument of Low 1-C.

It can be just nondimensional and that's why it can be a separator, but not have a higher-dimensional nature at the same time
 
Yes, Ethereal Divide encompasses them, but is this truly a higher-dimension to be used as argument for Low 1-C?

We know about this thing very very small part of info. "We are trapped in some interdimensional ethereal realm!" - Zane said. And yet, it's the only thing we know about this place.

We can't say that Ethereal Divide is higher than Realms; In fact they can share a same plane of existence and reality, but Ethereal Divide just exists outside of the realms and thus it surrounds them.
because it should fit the bill for a additional axis. take it like this before the merge we had 17 realms each was 4D being encompassed by the divide the divide is like a container which is like a portal dragons use to travel to the other worlds. Implying you can't access it normal. And the container itself is holding these unquantifiable realms + this unquantifiable sized divide place plus the other realms like grass land and overlord little bubble if you wanna call it that, i believe it should fit the bill for 5D or at the very least stretched to a insignificant 5th axis. but thats just my thoughts i could be wrong on that. Which is why i mentioned if we do Low 1-C source dragons it should be on a different CRT and needs more evidence then some hypotheticals that i am saying.

Yes i agree it does surround them but the issue is why don't we see the divide during the merge? i guess the outlines of reality could be the divide? but thats weird ngl. But yea if its just surrounding it then yea it just be higher into 4D if i get what your saying
 
Ethereal Divide should be higher-dimensional in nature (which I personally doubt) to be an argument of Low 1-C.

It can be just nondimensional and that's why it can be a separator, but not have a higher-dimensional nature at the same time
The fact it encompass the Realm could be used to prove its a higher dimensional structure anyways
 
I don't really agree, so I'll explain all my points step by step.

1. In my opinion mergequakes are not Uni+, by their very nature. Mergequakes are just the cause of some problems during the Coalescence event. Merge (Cause) created mergequakes (Effect), so The Merge will scale Uni+ in this case, mergequakes are just passive products of the true cause.

2. By the very definition of L2C, I don't think they can be classified this way. Mergequakes are simply spatial anomalies created when two places try to coexist. They do not significantly affect or actually destroy anything in the space-time continuum.

3. Closing a spatial rift is usually not a feat accomplished through attack power, but more through hax as spatial manipulation.

4."The Realm of Ninjago is referred as a dimension."
I don't think this is enough to support this conclusion in any single context. If in a context we talk about the universe as "dimension", it is not always true that every time we use the term "dimension" we are referring to a universe.

5. Personally I don't think Way Of Departed is canon, but that's not what I want to talk about. The scan is not about how big the universe is literally, but a metaphor. The phrase "suspended in an infinite void of airless darkness" reflects the perception of the vastness of outer space, suggesting that the Moon is only a small part of this space. This in no way implies that the universe is literally infinite, especially considering the context in which that statement was made.

6. In the Guide to the size of Universes it is stated that points taken individually cannot actually prove that each universe is a different continuum. Furthermore, the Coalescence event may imply that they are all within a single space-time continuum, after all in the attempt to unite the realms there were no problems on a temporal scale, but only on a spatial level, at least from what I remember.

I don't actually have much to say about star-level scaling, I honestly don't have much interest, but I think it's pretty clear that the 4GW are star-level. For character scaling however, I don't understand how the GWs adapt to their attack potency, given that I've only seen durability feats.

7. Etheral Divide can just be another three-dimensional space and simply acts as a link between the various realms. I think it's more accurate to say that it's a space that contains all these universes rather than some sort of larger dimensionally higher universe. The fact that it is possible that it is the case does not actually imply that it is, it would be appropriate to bring more supporting evidence to reach this conclusion.

If there are grammatical errors or incorrectly used words I apologize, but English is not my main language.
 
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I don't really agree, so I'll explain all my points step by step.

1. In my opinion mergequakes are not Uni+, by their very nature. Mergequakes are just the cause of some problems during the Coalescence event. Merge (Cause) created mergequakes (Effect), so The Merge will scale Uni+ in this case, mergequakes are just passive products of the true cause.

2. By the very definition of L2C, I don't think they can be classified this way. Mergequakes are simply spatial anomalies created when two places try to coexist. They do not significantly affect or actually destroy anything in the space-time continuum.

3. Closing a spatial rift is usually not a feat accomplished through attack power, but more through hax as spatial manipulation.

4."The Realm of Ninjago is referred as a dimension."
I don't think this is enough to support this conclusion in any single context. If in a context we talk about the universe as "dimension", it is not always true that every time we use the term "dimension" we are referring to a universe.

5. Personally I don't think Way Of Departed is canon, but that's not what I want to talk about. The scan is not about how big the universe is literally, but a metaphor. The phrase "suspended in an infinite void of airless darkness" reflects the perception of the vastness of outer space, suggesting that the Moon is only a small part of this space. This in no way implies that the universe is literally infinite, especially considering the context in which that statement was made.

6. In the Guide to the Dimensions of Universes it is stated that points taken individually cannot actually prove that each universe is a different continuum. Furthermore, the Coalescence event may imply that they are all within a single space-time continuum, after all in the attempt to unite the realms there were no problems on a temporal scale, but only on a spatial level, at least from what I remember.

I don't actually have much to say about star-level scaling, I honestly don't have much interest, but I think it's pretty clear that the 4GW are star-level. For character scaling however, I don't understand how the GWs adapt to their attack potency, given that I've only seen durability feats.

7. Etheral Divide can just be another three-dimensional space and simply acts as a link between the various realms. I think it's more accurate to say that it's a space that contains all these universes rather than some sort of larger dimensionally higher universe. The fact that it is possible that it is the case does not actually imply that it is, it would be appropriate to bring more supporting evidence to reach this conclusion.

If there are grammatical errors or incorrectly used words I apologize, but English is not my main language.
i agree with you
 
I don't really agree, so I'll explain all my points step by step.

1. In my opinion mergequakes are not Uni+, by their very nature. Mergequakes are just the cause of some problems during the Coalescence event. Merge (Cause) created mergequakes (Effect), so The Merge will scale Uni+ in this case, mergequakes are just passive products of the true cause.

2. By the very definition of L2C, I don't think they can be classified this way. Mergequakes are simply spatial anomalies created when two places try to coexist. They do not significantly affect or actually destroy anything in the space-time continuum.

3. Closing a spatial rift is usually not a feat accomplished through attack power, but more through hax as spatial manipulation.

4."The Realm of Ninjago is referred as a dimension."
I don't think this is enough to support this conclusion in any single context. If in a context we talk about the universe as "dimension", it is not always true that every time we use the term "dimension" we are referring to a universe.

5. Personally I don't think Way Of Departed is canon, but that's not what I want to talk about. The scan is not about how big the universe is literally, but a metaphor. The phrase "suspended in an infinite void of airless darkness" reflects the perception of the vastness of outer space, suggesting that the Moon is only a small part of this space. This in no way implies that the universe is literally infinite, especially considering the context in which that statement was made.

6. In the Guide to the Dimensions of Universes it is stated that points taken individually cannot actually prove that each universe is a different continuum. Furthermore, the Coalescence event may imply that they are all within a single space-time continuum, after all in the attempt to unite the realms there were no problems on a temporal scale, but only on a spatial level, at least from what I remember.

I don't actually have much to say about star-level scaling, I honestly don't have much interest, but I think it's pretty clear that the 4GW are star-level. For character scaling however, I don't understand how the GWs adapt to their attack potency, given that I've only seen durability feats.

7. Etheral Divide can just be another three-dimensional space and simply acts as a link between the various realms. I think it's more accurate to say that it's a space that contains all these universes rather than some sort of larger dimensionally higher universe. The fact that it is possible that it is the case does not actually imply that it is, it would be appropriate to bring more supporting evidence to reach this conclusion.

If there are grammatical errors or incorrectly used words I apologize, but English is not my main language.
Oh nuh uh

1.Its not only closing a dimensional gap, but preventing the destruction of two 4D sized universes using AP. They can completly stop 2 Realms from sharing a same space, thus this would scale to their AP as they affect the Realms in that way too.
Two realms try to share the same space => Mergequake occurs.
You closed Mergequake => two realms no longer try to share the same space => you affected two realms.

2. The Realms are legit stated to have time working differently, they cannot really share the same continuum
image-34.png

IMG_9024.png


3.The Merge is Low Multiversal, as it affect 15 space time continuum (there were originally 17 of them, but 2 got destroyed)

4. These "Spatial anomalies" can grow strong enough to destroy reality (stated multiple time they could), so it would still be Uni+. The Mergequakes are not "causes of the Merge" but AFTERSHOCKS of the Merge.

5. If the scan refers to the vastness if Outer Space, this would still imply that its strecth infinite, I don't see why the Realm woulnd't be. And even following your logic, this doesn't change anything to an individual Realms size/scaling

6. GW obviously scales to other cats as they can harm each other via their AP (I legit showed clip where they did)

7. How can a 3D space act as a seperator for 4D sized universes? This doesn't make sense 😭
image.png


They even needed to make a rift to tear the fabric between the Realms to access the Departed Realm (The "Fabric" is referring to the Divide)
IMG_4579.jpg

image.png

And even the fact they need to make a rift proves that the realms are 4D
 
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I don't really agree, so I'll explain all my points step by step.

1. In my opinion mergequakes are not Uni+, by their very nature. Mergequakes are just the cause of some problems during the Coalescence event. Merge (Cause) created mergequakes (Effect), so The Merge will scale Uni+ in this case, mergequakes are just passive products of the true cause.

2. By the very definition of L2C, I don't think they can be classified this way. Mergequakes are simply spatial anomalies created when two places try to coexist. They do not significantly affect or actually destroy anything in the space-time continuum.

3. Closing a spatial rift is usually not a feat accomplished through attack power, but more through hax as spatial manipulation.

4."The Realm of Ninjago is referred as a dimension."
I don't think this is enough to support this conclusion in any single context. If in a context we talk about the universe as "dimension", it is not always true that every time we use the term "dimension" we are referring to a universe.

5. Personally I don't think Way Of Departed is canon, but that's not what I want to talk about. The scan is not about how big the universe is literally, but a metaphor. The phrase "suspended in an infinite void of airless darkness" reflects the perception of the vastness of outer space, suggesting that the Moon is only a small part of this space. This in no way implies that the universe is literally infinite, especially considering the context in which that statement was made.

6. In the Guide to the size of Universes it is stated that points taken individually cannot actually prove that each universe is a different continuum. Furthermore, the Coalescence event may imply that they are all within a single space-time continuum, after all in the attempt to unite the realms there were no problems on a temporal scale, but only on a spatial level, at least from what I remember.

I don't actually have much to say about star-level scaling, I honestly don't have much interest, but I think it's pretty clear that the 4GW are star-level. For character scaling however, I don't understand how the GWs adapt to their attack potency, given that I've only seen durability feats.

7. Etheral Divide can just be another three-dimensional space and simply acts as a link between the various realms. I think it's more accurate to say that it's a space that contains all these universes rather than some sort of larger dimensionally higher universe. The fact that it is possible that it is the case does not actually imply that it is, it would be appropriate to bring more supporting evidence to reach this conclusion.

If there are grammatical errors or incorrectly used words I apologize, but English is not my main language.
1. is weird to say the Merge was not just some Uni level + event. it was effecting all the realms which still existed and forcing them into one space and coexisting, and forcing the separate space-time continuums of those realms to break reality itself this is just baseline Low multi you are effecting to 4D realms here if anything it be 2 times Uni level + and the merge itself is effecting all the remaining realms so it be # said amount into Low multi.

2. i mean idk what you mean here. they were legit forcing two separate realms to coexist in the same space-time continuum that should be enough for low multi.

3. Can you prove they did it via hax? and what i mean is spatial hax is super weird to say considering the merge was cracking the very fabric of space-time across all realms and merging it into are current new bigger realm

4. thats fine, Dimension can mean a lot of things besides "universe" but it has its own time-space which should natively be 4D by the Universal model we use.

5. flowery languages idea doesn't defeat the statement though (at least in my opinion). just say the universe is unquantifiable? which would go for the divide to its a unquantifiable sized realm. (but i do see where you are coming from)

6. i mean each realm is its own universal body and cloud kingdom controls all of ninjago besides certain characters anyways? So it having a time space like we know the extra dimensional statement isn't all that useful but it can showcase these are normal realms and we can even go further to say time encompasses even the divide which give the realms are already natively 4D this would make the timeline 5D or at the very least insignificant 5D. (which we should have a separate CRT for 5D idea)

7. thats not how it works The ethereal divide is encompassing the entire container of all the realms and the dragon cores were used as walls to separate them. Which goes to my next point give the realms are time-spaces even if you said they are the same the ethereal divide would still be encompassing those time-spaces meaning we have a 5D container holding the divide or at the very least a insignificant 5D axis timeline for ninjago if you look at it like that. it would still be holding the time-space of ninjago post merge anyways which should natively make it 4D our well in this case outside a 4D realm if you will post merge. Thats how i viewed post merged i could be wrong i gotta rewatch the stuff for post merge divide.

(i hope i am easy to understand here? if anything i miss understood please tell me)
 
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1. is weird to say the Merge was not just some Uni level + event. it was effecting all the realms which still existed and forcing them into one space and coexisting, and forcing the separate space-time continuums of those realms to break reality itself this is just baseline Low multi you are effecting to 4D realms here if anything it be 2 times Uni level + and the merge itself is effecting all the remaining realms so it be # said amount into Low multi.

2. i mean idk what you mean here. they were legit forcing two separate realms to coexist in the same space-time continuum that should be enough for low multi.

3. Can you prove they did it via hax? and what i mean is spatial hax is super weird to say considering the merge was cracking the very fabric of space-time across all realms and merging it into are current new bigger realm

4. thats fine, Dimension can mean a lot of things besides "universe" but it has its own time-space which should natively be 4D by the Universal model we use.

5. flowery languages idea doesn't defeat the statement though (at least in my opinion). just say the universe is unquantifiable? which would go for the divide to its a unquantifiable sized realm. (but i do see where you are coming from)

6. i mean each realm is its own universal body and cloud kingdom controls all of ninjago besides certain characters anyways? So it having a time space like we know the extra dimensional statement isn't all that useful but it can showcase these are normal realms and we can even go further to say time encompasses even the divide which give the realms are already natively 4D this would make the timeline 5D or at the very least insignificant 5D. (which we should have a separate CRT for 5D idea)

7. thats not how it works The ethereal divide is encompassing the entire container of all the realms and the dragon cores were used as walls to separate them. Which goes to my next point give the realms are time-spaces even if you said they are the same the ethereal divide would still be encompassing those time-spaces meaning we have a 5D container holding the divide or at the very least a insignificant 5D axis timeline for ninjago if you look at it like that. it would still be holding the time-space of ninjago post merge anyways which should natively make it 4D our well in this case outside a 4D realm if you will post merge. Thats how i viewed post merged i could be wrong i gotta rewatch the stuff for post merge divide.

(i hope i am easy to understand here? if anything i miss understood please tell me)
Easy rebunk. Waiting for more mods to step in🤷‍♂️
 
Oh nuh uh

1.Its not only closing a dimensional gap, but preventing the destruction of two 4D sized universes using AP. They can completly stop 2 Realms from sharing a same space, thus this would scale to their AP as they affect the Realms in that way too.
Two realms try to share the same space => Mergequake occurs.
You closed Mergequake => two realms no longer try to share the same space => you affected two realms.

2. The Realms are legit stated to have time working differently, they cannot really share the same continuum
image-34.png

IMG_9024.png


3.The Merge is Low Multiversal, as it affect 15 space time continuum (there were originally 17 of them, but 2 got destroyed)

4. These "Spatial anomalies" can grow strong enough to destroy reality (stated multiple time they could), so it would still be Uni+. The Mergequakes are not "causes of the Merge" but AFTERSHOCKS of the Merge.

5. If the scan refers to the vastness if Outer Space, this would still imply that its strecth infinite, I don't see why the Realm woulnd't be. And even following your logic, this doesn't change anything to an individual Realms size/scaling

6. GW obviously scales to other cats as they can harm each other via their AP (I legit showed clip where they did)

7. How can a 3D space act as a seperator for 4D sized universes? This doesn't make sense 😭
image.png


They even needed to make a rift to tear the fabric between the Realms to access the Departed Realm (The "Fabric" is referring to the Divide)
IMG_4579.jpg

image.png

And even the fact they need to make a rift proves that the realms are 4D
Sorry for the late answer, but I've been busy today.

1. From what I understand you are claiming that they are 4D because you believe that each realm is a different space-time continuum, therefore mergequakes also affect time rather than just a spatial level, as I stated in the previous message. So I'll answer the second point straight away.

2. I don't think it's right to take statements made by Twitter and treat them as a Word of God. Usually statements that don't come from the main canon need to be treated a little differently, certainly not using them as main evidence. However, the first statement does not imply that each realm is a different space-time continuum, even in our own universe there are places where time passes more or less quickly. In the second, however, he talks about Jay's wish, and whether at the end of S6 it influenced Chima or not. He replies that the events of Skybound did not affect other realms, but if the events that occurred have no influence on other realms, then it is logical to think so. Honestly, I didn't see it as a message with the intent of explaining how the various realms are actually divided. Finally I would like to mention that Tommy Andreasen has made some minor contradictions over the years, so I think it is wrong to 100% believe his words without using primary canon to support them.

Furthermore, I believe that they are not different space-time continuums, and one of the main reasons is that there is no need for space-time travel to go from one realm to another. Some examples would be the Fire Temple, which is so close to the Underworld that you can physically travel from one side to the other, the Blind Man's Eye which is a direct gateway to the CK Realm, the Mountain of Madness within the KoM which is a direct portal to Ninjago and so on. Most of the time other methods are also used, such as dimensional gates, I am aware of this, but even the latter are never explained or treated as "space-time gates".

3. This conclusion of yours follows from the other points so there is no need for me to rewrite the same thing as before.

4. Yeah, they are spatial anomalies that in an indefinite time can destroy the world, interesting. If the universe were infinite then this action would take infinite time anyway.

5.My point that the term "infinity" is used hyperbolically to exaggerate the vastness of the universe. Furthermore, even if it is not necessary for scaling, in that message I wrote the things I don't agree with, and that point was one of those, therefore, even if it wasn't necessary, I still wanted to specify it.

6. Oh, my mistake, I didn't notice the clip, thanks for pointing it out.

7. When I say "3D" I obviously don't count time. However, the Ethereal Divide is not anything dimensionally higher; it is merely a place that exists between the realms and contains them, connecting them. It is never explained in depth, as far as we know it exists on the same existential plane as the other realms and is not implied to be superior to them. There may be many possible conclusions in this context, but you decided to say "yes it is 5D because it may be the case".
 
1. is weird to say the Merge was not just some Uni level + event. it was effecting all the realms which still existed and forcing them into one space and coexisting, and forcing the separate space-time continuums of those realms to break reality itself this is just baseline Low multi you are effecting to 4D realms here if anything it be 2 times Uni level + and the merge itself is effecting all the remaining realms so it be # said amount into Low multi.

2. i mean idk what you mean here. they were legit forcing two separate realms to coexist in the same space-time continuum that should be enough for low multi.

3. Can you prove they did it via hax? and what i mean is spatial hax is super weird to say considering the merge was cracking the very fabric of space-time across all realms and merging it into are current new bigger realm

4. thats fine, Dimension can mean a lot of things besides "universe" but it has its own time-space which should natively be 4D by the Universal model we use.

5. flowery languages idea doesn't defeat the statement though (at least in my opinion). just say the universe is unquantifiable? which would go for the divide to its a unquantifiable sized realm. (but i do see where you are coming from)

6. i mean each realm is its own universal body and cloud kingdom controls all of ninjago besides certain characters anyways? So it having a time space like we know the extra dimensional statement isn't all that useful but it can showcase these are normal realms and we can even go further to say time encompasses even the divide which give the realms are already natively 4D this would make the timeline 5D or at the very least insignificant 5D. (which we should have a separate CRT for 5D idea)

7. thats not how it works The ethereal divide is encompassing the entire container of all the realms and the dragon cores were used as walls to separate them. Which goes to my next point give the realms are time-spaces even if you said they are the same the ethereal divide would still be encompassing those time-spaces meaning we have a 5D container holding the divide or at the very least a insignificant 5D axis timeline for ninjago if you look at it like that. it would still be holding the time-space of ninjago post merge anyways which should natively make it 4D our well in this case outside a 4D realm if you will post merge. Thats how i viewed post merged i could be wrong i gotta rewatch the stuff for post merge divide.

(i hope i am easy to understand here? if anything i miss understood please tell me)
Many of the points you said are similar to those of the other guy, so in order not to rewrite everything again I recommend you just read the reply message I wrote to the other guy. The only thing I would like to clarify is the third point: the burden of proof in this case is yours, you are the one who must prove that he did it with attack potency. In the thread it is said "This feat scales the attack potency because ... (non-existent explanation), I instead replied "Look, in this context there can be more possible solutions (+ argument to support my point)", here you are to have to prove that point, I don't have to do anything here.
 
Many of the points you said are similar to those of the other guy, so in order not to rewrite everything again I recommend you just read the reply message I wrote to the other guy. The only thing I would like to clarify is the third point: the burden of proof in this case is yours, you are the one who must prove that he did it with attack potency. In the thread it is said "This feat scales the attack potency because ... (non-existent explanation), I instead replied "Look, in this context there can be more possible solutions (+ argument to support my point)", here you are to have to prove that point, I don't have to do anything here.
i agree with you
 
Imma just read through some of the arguments for both sides but at a glance I'm not entirely convinced on the scaling to closing mergequakes thing
 
Sorry for the late answer, but I've been busy today.

1. From what I understand you are claiming that they are 4D because you believe that each realm is a different space-time continuum, therefore mergequakes also affect time rather than just a spatial level, as I stated in the previous message. So I'll answer the second point straight away.

2. I don't think it's right to take statements made by Twitter and treat them as a Word of God. Usually statements that don't come from the main canon need to be treated a little differently, certainly not using them as main evidence. However, the first statement does not imply that each realm is a different space-time continuum, even in our own universe there are places where time passes more or less quickly. In the second, however, he talks about Jay's wish, and whether at the end of S6 it influenced Chima or not. He replies that the events of Skybound did not affect other realms, but if the events that occurred have no influence on other realms, then it is logical to think so. Honestly, I didn't see it as a message with the intent of explaining how the various realms are actually divided. Finally I would like to mention that Tommy Andreasen has made some minor contradictions over the years, so I think it is wrong to 100% believe his words without using primary canon to support them.

Furthermore, I believe that they are not different space-time continuums, and one of the main reasons is that there is no need for space-time travel to go from one realm to another. Some examples would be the Fire Temple, which is so close to the Underworld that you can physically travel from one side to the other, the Blind Man's Eye which is a direct gateway to the CK Realm, the Mountain of Madness within the KoM which is a direct portal to Ninjago and so on. Most of the time other methods are also used, such as dimensional gates, I am aware of this, but even the latter are never explained or treated as "space-time gates".

3. This conclusion of yours follows from the other points so there is no need for me to rewrite the same thing as before.

4. Yeah, they are spatial anomalies that in an indefinite time can destroy the world, interesting. If the universe were infinite then this action would take infinite time anyway.

5.My point that the term "infinity" is used hyperbolically to exaggerate the vastness of the universe. Furthermore, even if it is not necessary for scaling, in that message I wrote the things I don't agree with, and that point was one of those, therefore, even if it wasn't necessary, I still wanted to specify it.

6. Oh, my mistake, I didn't notice the clip, thanks for pointing it out.

7. When I say "3D" I obviously don't count time. However, the Ethereal Divide is not anything dimensionally higher; it is merely a place that exists between the realms and contains them, connecting them. It is never explained in depth, as far as we know it exists on the same existential plane as the other realms and is not implied to be superior to them. There may be many possible conclusions in this context, but you decided to say "yes it is 5D because it may be the case".
Absolutly not. The Golden Weapons created a rift in space time to allow Garmadon to travel to another Ream. Just bc they are accessible via gateways isn't proving anything. They are clear distinc space time continuums. Unless u even have a way of proving Tommy's specific time statement is wrong (which he said multiple time on Twitter), there is absolutly no way u can say its unreliable.
Also, Mergequake do not destroy the world, its just 2 entire Realms trying to share a same space, so they are destroying each other. Think of Mergequakes as a visualization of this process

U ain't debunking this feat this time
 
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The Divide would be a higher dimensional space in nature via these standarts, so I don't why the Source Dragon wouldn't be Low 1-C here
Because there's an important aspect: Relevant size.

A 5th Dimensional axis can separate even an infinite amount of 4D spaces without itself being of infinite size, because all the 4D spaces would need is a vaguely different 5th spatial dimension. Or in other words:
  • (∞, ∞, ∞, ∞, 1.0000x)
  • (∞, ∞, ∞, ∞, 1.0001x)
  • (∞, ∞, ∞, ∞, 1.0002x)
  • (∞, ∞, ∞, ∞, 1.0003x)
  • etc
To be 5D you have to prove the 4D spaces embeds an infinitely small point, which hasn't been proven.

For the thread we already accept Tier 2 so I guess that's fine, but Tier 4 you would need to prove that they have some form of UES since that's a creation feat and wouldn't strictly scale to AP on its own.
 
Absolutly not. The Golden Weapons created a rift in space time to allow Garmadon to travel to another Ream. Just bc they are accessible via gateways isn't proving anything. They are clear distinc space time continuums. Unless u even have a way of proving Tommy's specific time statement is wrong (which he said multiple time on Twitter), there is absolutly no way u can say its unreliable.
Also, Mergequake do not destroy the world, its just 2 entire Realms trying to share a same space, so they are destroying each other. Think of Mergequakes as a visualization of this process

U ain't debunking this feat this time
Are you referring to what Garmadon said in Weapons of Destiny? Because if we're talking about the same thing, I don't really agree. This is clearly hyperbole to exaggerate the power of the 4 GW combined. Yk how really cool its to say like: "I can finally create a portal in space-time, I'm too strong for fiction". Imo, the Underworld itself is probably the most contradictory realm if you assume it's a different space-time continuum. I have already given the reasons previously (Btw, iirc in that episode the dragons reach the Underworld just by going underground). However, if you don't want to consider it hyperbole, it is still a statement contradicted by several feats. One is as good as the other.

"Just bc they are accessible via gateways isn't proving anything".
Well if they are physically connected, then they are not isolated universes with their own continuum, so I think it's quite relevant.

For Twitter statements, I have already explained why they should not be used as a primary source and how this may not be the case. Plus I can definitely say it's not reliable. Are you familiar with the concept of "death of the author"? the meaning of a work does not depend on the author's intentions, but on the reader's experiences. Once a work has been created, the author loses control of its meaning, and the responsibility passes to the reader.

Additionally, "Can u prove its unreliable?".
Yes, using the primary canon of the work, not some stupid statement on twitter. I already explained it.

For mergequakes, there are A and B merging together at the same location X, so A and B annihilate each other. The extent of destruction is proportional to the magnitude of the mergequakes. It is a process that takes time and does not have the power needed to destroy the universe in the true sense of the term. I can destroy a door, certainly not in one blow though, that's the problem. Then, when they say things like, "They affect the realms" they mean that parts of those realms are slowly being erased due to spatial imbalances created by Coalescence, that can't even be counted as a significant influence. Furthermore, another problem I have is the reason why the reclosing of mergequakes is related to the attack potency of the person who performed this action. These are still the main problems I have with mergequakes.
 
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