Neptune vs Ultraman Belial

thetechmaster36 · Jan 3, 2023

I know **** all about Ultraman stuff but uhhh Apathy + Poison + Paralysis go brrr??

Kisaragi_Megumi · Jan 3, 2023

Well those are sure going to screwed Belial here, but not without some of counter attack as well
First, you can notice that Belial in his Atrocious form can conduct a destructive poison to your cell with his blast so Purple Heart isn't the only one here that also use the poison
Second, Atrocious form has the combined power of Dark Lugiel and Alien Empera, and while Empera doesn't have a page yet, he has a powerful blast that deconstruct you
Tho for Lugiel case, Belial never shown using some of his power like sealing and corruption, but i could be wrong

thetechmaster36 · Jan 3, 2023

Kisaragi_Megumi said:
First, you can notice that Belial in his Atrocious form can conduct a destructive poison to your cell with his blast so Purple Heart isn't the only one here that also use the poison

Well, Neptune resists Biological Manip, but idk if she'll resist the specific application, so shrug

Kisaragi_Megumi said:
Second, Atrocious form has the combined power of Dark Lugiel and Alien Empera, and while Empera doesn't have a page yet, he has a powerful blast that deconstruct you
Tho for Lugiel case, Belial never shown using some of his power like sealing and corruption, but i could be wrong

Okay, but here's my question: what exactly is stopping Neptune from inflicting him with Apathy and Paralysis before he uses it?

Artorimachi_Meteoraft · Jan 3, 2023

thetechmaster36 said:
Well, Neptune resists Biological Manip, but idk if she'll resist the specific application, so shrug

Okay, but here's my question: what exactly is stopping Neptune from inflicting him with Apathy and Paralysis before he uses it?

How is apathy power null exactly? I thought it sounded more like empathetic manipulation based on the name

thetechmaster36 · Jan 3, 2023

Artorimachi_Meteoraft said:
How is apathy power null exactly? I thought it sounded more like empathetic manipulation based on the name

Makes it so they're unable to use any of their stronger attacks, and they can only use their most basic attacks like pure physical attacks

The name is basically just to be a name, the effect itself is what matters

Artorimachi_Meteoraft · Jan 3, 2023

thetechmaster36 said:
Makes it so they're unable to use any of their stronger attacks, and they can only use their most basic attacks like pure physical attacks

The name is basically just to be a name, the effect itself is what matters

Okay thanks, sometimes names can confuse the reader.

thetechmaster36 · Jan 3, 2023

Artorimachi_Meteoraft said:
Okay thanks, sometimes names can confuse the reader.

~~you don't say~~ :3

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 4, 2023

Hm, them Status Effect Inducements seem like quite the pickle, I dunno if I can get Big Bad Belial Man outta this one unscathed. How are they casted? I can already see stuff like Apathy being a remote inducement so that's a bit of a bummer.

Though I guess if we're talking about some of these other stuffs... would layers play any part into it?

Just asking because I'm still gathering my thoughts for now.

TheKingStrategist13 · Jan 4, 2023

I am assuming that this is using the Below Average Shares Version (As that's the Strongest HDD I could find that doesn't break into 2-C), who seems around 27-29 layers into the Neptunia Scaling chain, if I counted right. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Kisaragi_Megumi · Jan 4, 2023

Bump!!

thetechmaster36 · Jan 4, 2023

Mr.Cutlery said:
How are they casted? I can already see stuff like Apathy being a remote inducement so that's a bit of a bummer.

Inflicted by any attack that Neptune uses in her arsenal, including both physical and ranged attacks, and she has a few of the latter with some pretty massive AoE (Tri Burst, Akashic Shine, etc.), so it's not hard for her to snipe him with the statuses

Mr.Cutlery said:
Though I guess if we're talking about some of these other stuffs... would layers play any part into it?

What other stuff might you be referring to?

TheKingStrategist13 said:
I am assuming that this is using the Below Average Shares Version (As that's the Strongest HDD I could find that doesn't break into 2-C), who seems around 27-29 layers into the Neptunia Scaling chain, if I counted right. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's either Low Shares or Below Average Shares yeah

Low Shares:

Low Shares Current HDD Forms > Very Low Shares Current HDD Forms > Fake CPUs > Current Base CPUs / Candidates = Current Base Makers = Base Gold Third > Gamindustri-amped Nepgear > TDoS Hyper Arfoire ≥ Average-High Shares BoS HDD Forms > Very Low-Below Average Shares BoS HDD Forms > BoS Base Form CPUs / Candidates = BoS Makers > Holy Sword Nepgear > Conquest Nepgear > DoS Hyper Arfoire > CFW Magic ≥ Eggplant-amped Ultra Arfoire > TDoS Ultra Arfoire > DoS Ultra Arfoire > Mr. Badd > Anonydeath > Copypaste > CFW Trick ≥ CFW Brave > CFW Judge >> Linda = Warechu > Killachine >>> Histoire = Baseline Low 2-C

Below-Average Shares:

Below-average Shares Current HDD Forms > Steamax > Low Shares Current HDD Forms > Very Low Shares Current HDD Forms > Fake CPUs > Current Base CPUs / Candidates = Current Base Makers = Base Gold Third > Gamindustri-amped Nepgear > TDoS Hyper Arfoire ≥ Average-High Shares BoS HDD Forms > Very Low-Below Average Shares BoS HDD Forms > BoS Base Form CPUs / Candidates = BoS Makers > Holy Sword Nepgear > Conquest Nepgear > DoS Hyper Arfoire > CFW Magic ≥ Eggplant-amped Ultra Arfoire > TDoS Ultra Arfoire > DoS Ultra Arfoire > Mr. Badd > Anonydeath > Copypaste > CFW Trick ≥ CFW Brave > CFW Judge >> Linda = Warechu > Killachine >>> Histoire = Baseline Low 2-C

There's not much of a difference between the two, but either way, Purple Heart scales way up above Baseline Low 2-C in this state

Belial's scaling seems to only go a little above Baseline according to the scaling blog I found

Baseline
New Generation Era (After Crisis) Belial survived being in the center of the Super-Dimension Eradication Bomb

Imit-Belial has power that is about the same as the real Belial

Tri-Strium Taiga (Weakened), Tregear (Full Power), and a casual Base Zero can all fight Imit-Belial

Tri-Strium Taiga (Weakened) w/ Plasma Zero-let destroyed Imit-Belial

Tri-Strium Taiga (Weakened) w/ Plasma Zero-let > Imit-Belial ≈ Belial (Full Power) (≈Baseline) >≈ Tri-Strium Taiga (Weakened) >≈ Tregear (Full Power)

So Belial gets one-shot by Neptune because of the seemingly massive AP difference

Kisaragi_Megumi · Jan 4, 2023

I'll wait on Cut argument about the scaling

TheKingStrategist13 · Jan 4, 2023

Even though I will also wait to see the Counterargument, I will say that this is looking to be in Neptune's Favor at the moment.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 4, 2023

Yep, soitenly looks like Neptune has AP advantage.

Though I'm pretty thankful that Neptune's Status Effects are imbued into attacks as that means it can technically still be parried, right? I have not gotten the CRT for it, but Ultras should have an unconventional form of resistance where they can coat themselves in energy and regardless of what hits them, they're not affected. Although considering it's not legit yet... Belial can at least opt for barriers, and I mean he has his Battlenizer, right? He can use it to deflect attacks.

As for the other sfuffs... Belial's cell hax doesn't just work singularly on that as it's typically layered with a plethora of other effects as well such as mind and soul manipulation. Other than that, there's also the CRT that settled Ultras as being able to damage opponents on a deep consciousness level. In addition, Belial should have layers of potency in his, as a mere fraction of his power could completely overtake another senior Ultra despite him having resisted a poison of similar nature before that. And this is Belial himself, who has a more concentrated version of that power. That's already at least 3 layers of mind/soul hax in his energy attacks.

Hmm... Belial has other haxes that I don't see Neptune having resistance to, but is generally outmatched in strength and range as Belial really only covers like hundreds of thousands of kilometers. Not to mention the fact he himself doesn't even resist most of Neptune's haxxes, especially SEs. Incomplete profiles ftw, huh?

thetechmaster36 · Jan 4, 2023

Mr.Cutlery said:
Incomplete profiles ftw, huh?

~~it's more like our's is actually complete, just that this series has some pretty ass hax for the main characters~~

Mr.Cutlery said:
Belial can at least opt for barriers, and I mean he has his Battlenizer, right? He can use it to deflect attacks.

Attack deflection is a bit of an issue, but it's not like Neptune can't just keep herself at a distance with it; she's pretty damn smart, she can play around the opponent's abilities if she finds a way to do so. I don't know about the barrier, but if it has a set durability, that thing is gonna get broken like a twig because of the AP advantage she has

Mr.Cutlery said:
As for the other sfuffs... Belial's cell hax doesn't just work singularly on that as it's typically layered with a plethora of other effects as well such as mind and soul manipulation. Other than that, there's also the CRT that settled Ultras as being able to damage opponents on a deep consciousness level. In addition, Belial should have layers of potency in his, as a mere fraction of his power could completely overtake another senior Ultra despite him having resisted a poison of similar nature before that. And this is Belial himself, who has a more concentrated version of that power. That's already at least 3 layers of mind/soul hax in his energy attacks.

Yeah that's definitely tough, but at the same time, would it be able to affect her Type 8 Immortality, since Share Energy sustains her soul as well?

TheKingStrategist13 · Jan 4, 2023

I would personally disagree with it working much, since I don't think Soul Manip can really affect the Share Energy itself, but it's a bit murky. Share Energy grants resistance to Min Manip, so so long as Neptune doesn't have too Low a amount of Share's, she should be able to resist it.

thetechmaster36 · Jan 4, 2023

TheKingStrategist13 said:
Share Energy grants resistance to Min Manip, so so long as Neptune doesn't have too Low a amount of Share's, she should be able to resist it.

Now hold on a second, that's not necessarily true; if it's layered, then it can affect her since it's only one layer of resistance for that

TheKingStrategist13 · Jan 4, 2023

thetechmaster36 said:
Now hold on a second, that's not necessarily true; if it's layered, then it can affect her since it's only one layer of resistance for that

Oooh, I didn't catch that. You're right, she only has a layer, so if it's Layered then she doesn't really have a answer to that.

thetechmaster36 · Jan 4, 2023

Yeah, I was moreso pointing to the soul hax, but mind hax will still get her

Though since it's from energy attacks, she has no reason she can't dodge it, especially with Dash Sneakers since those make her a bit over two times faster than normal

TheKingStrategist13 · Jan 4, 2023

Yeah, that's a fair point. She can dodge the attacks if she uses Dash Sneakers... Combine that with a Massive AP Advantage, and it's looking grim for Belial.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 4, 2023

Were you implying Apathy + Paralysis is ass hax? smh kids these days not appreciating their haxxes

The Battlenizer is pretty tough tho, as it's taken damage from a character who at that time was superior to Belial, and even one of the God-Tiers had to resort to sealing it. The one time it was finally broken, it was the combination of that same God-Tier channeling his energy into another Ultra. And as recent instalments have shown, it's not even fully destroyed as it could still be summoned, literally universes away. But yes, it's really only good for Belial to deflect the hax imbued attacks for the time being.

And even if Belial can't overcome Type 8, he can still incapacitate her soul, which is a thing Ultras do. Otherwise there would be no Monster Graveyard. But again, this is an if supported only by Belial being able to mostly keep her at bay.

Guess I'll just ask how fast Neptune can equip her... equipment, because at the distance they're set, Belial has a technical range advantage due to his large size, and being a war criminal, he usually goes for killing moves like an empowered strike using his Battlenizer. And like mentioned before, these energized strikes have no reason to not also have the hax properties added in.

I am gonna grasp at straws even if it kills me. Although if we wanna add intelligence to the fight, Belial is likely gonna realize he doesn't have much chance in direct combat pretty quickly. He's like well over 30,000+ years by updated lore, and has fought people with centuries of martial arts training, and those with experience fighting a ridiculous variety of monsters with goofy ahh abilities. Though how he can use that battle knowledge to his advantage I'm not very sure yet, if still possible.

~~i like hitting vs-debating no-nos~~

thetechmaster36 · Jan 4, 2023

Mr.Cutlery said:
Were you implying Apathy + Paralysis is ass hax? smh kids these days not appreciating their haxxes

~~characters can resist power null and paralysis so yes :v~~

Mr.Cutlery said:
The Battlenizer is pretty tough tho, as it's taken damage from a character who at that time was superior to Belial, and even one of the God-Tiers had to resort to sealing it. The one time it was finally broken, it was the combination of that same God-Tier channeling his energy into another Ultra. And as recent instalments have shown, it's not even fully destroyed as it could still be summoned, literally universes away. But yes, it's really only good for Belial to deflect the hax imbued attacks for the time being.

Mmmh, that could be pretty tough to destroy, so he could realistically keep it up for the entire fight if he's able to

Mr.Cutlery said:
And even if Belial can't overcome Type 8, he can still incapacitate her soul, which is a thing Ultras do. Otherwise there would be no Monster Graveyard. But again, this is an if supported only by Belial being able to mostly keep her at bay.

That could also be an issue, damn

Difficult to say if it would even work or not, too, seeing as we don't have any realistic soul hax or resistance to it in this series yet

Mr.Cutlery said:
Guess I'll just ask how fast Neptune can equip her... equipment, because at the distance they're set, Belial has a technical range advantage due to his large size, and being a war criminal, he usually goes for killing moves like an empowered strike using his Battlenizer

In regards to stuff like her weapons, she either has them immediately when she starts the battle, or she can instantly summon it into battle

Stuff like the Game Discs and Flag Items, she has them on her person at all times, and the latter is always active since Flag Items are constantly active unless they're turned off (which why would you do that, let's be real lol)

Mr.Cutlery said:
Although if we wanna add intelligence to the fight, Belial is likely gonna realize he doesn't have much chance in direct combat pretty quickly. He's like well over 30,000+ years by updated lore, and has fought people with centuries of martial arts training, and those with experience fighting a ridiculous variety of monsters with goofy ahh abilities

So he has more experience than Neptune it seems. Though, Neptune's page also hasn't been updated to account for new intelligence stuff just yet (thanks in part to Sisters vs Sisters), so shrug

Mr.Cutlery said:
~~i like hitting vs-debating no-nos~~

~~this is my vsbw no-no square~~

Peter1129 · Jan 4, 2023

Also just a reminder that in this form Belial was still passively getting stronger by absorbing energy from King. So eventually Belial would reach the point where he could probably stomp or one shot people that were initially comparable to him if the fight doesn’t end fast. Although technically if the Low 2-C Bullton stuff goes through Belial would scale a bit higher into Low 2-C.

Edit: Actually wait never mind the battle isn’t taking place in the Side Space Universe where King is located at. So the passive increase in AP overtime probably won’t happen. So yeah it just comes down to whether or not they resist each others hax.

Mr.Cutlery · Jan 4, 2023

Aight, fair enough for the hax parts. But shouldn't the joy instead be subjecting other verses to those haxxes?

And looks like Giga Battlenizer sticks with him for this fight, and he does keep that strap with him as Atrocious, so there's some level of defense against the more troublesome stuffs.

How exactly does the mechanics of Neptune's deeper consciousness work again? Like, data-based or something? That should already be covered as a thing most Ultras can already affect, plus Belial was able to imprint on a robot. An AI, even after heavy tampering to its systems, and while it was universes away from his point of creation.

Damn, that's pretty troubling if Belial has ta fight the equivalent of a fly zipping here and there. My bro isn't Saitama mang, he don't gotta be done dirty like this.

I'm also being generously sparing in regards to Belial's intelligence overall. That is a rabbit hole I'm hoping to not get into just yet.

thetechmaster36 · Jan 4, 2023

Mr.Cutlery said:
How exactly does the mechanics of Neptune's deeper consciousness work again? Like, data-based or something?

No, and I swear I'm going to change the "CPU" stuff in the next CRT

Neptune's consciousness is more of a connection to her Share Energy, since (and we learn this in Sisters vs Sisters) low Share Energy puts the Goddess into a coma. No Shares means death.

Though I doubt that would stop Belial's hax from working on her

TheKingStrategist13 · Jan 4, 2023

It is pretty funny that they're called CPU's in the Localization, so people associate them with Tech... But like, well, tech, said, they're not based on Data or anything.

Kisaragi_Megumi · Jan 4, 2023

Peter1129 said:
Also just a reminder that in this form Belial was still passively getting stronger by absorbing energy from King. So eventually Belial would reach the point where he could probably stomp or one shot people that were initially comparable to him if the fight doesn’t end fast. Although technically if the Low 2-C Bullton stuff goes through Belial would scale a bit higher into Low 2-C.

Edit: Actually wait never mind the battle isn’t taking place in the Side Space Universe where King is located at. So the passive increase in AP overtime probably won’t happen. So yeah it just comes down to whether or not they resist each others hax.

Oh, didn't know that, should i change the battlefield to Geed World so Belial get stronger via King's Energy? Because Neptune AP here is enough to one-shot him

TheKingStrategist13 · Jan 4, 2023

Hold on, can we get a idea for just how much he grow's, or more accurately, the rate he grow's and at what point is the limit?

Kisaragi_Megumi · Jan 4, 2023

King's Energy is literally scattered across the universe, you can get the idea there

Peter1129 · Jan 4, 2023

@Kisaragi_Megumi If Neptune one shots than yeah it’s probably best for the battle to be moved to Geed’s world where he can passively grow stronger.

@TheKingStrategist13 They never really showed how fast he was growing since he never went all out in the series when he started passively absorbing King’s energy. Once he reached Low 2-C he basically just played around with a bunch of (High) 3-As before getting a serum injected into him which caused all of King’s energy that he absorbed to scatter from his body and returned him to (High) 3-A.

King’s energy was scattered throughout the Side Space universe during Ultraman Geed and was getting absorbed by Belial so it was implied that Belial could potentially reach King’s lvl once he absorbed all his energy. Ultraman King is at least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C. And even the Low 2-C end is basically higher than any Low 2-C that has ever appeared so far as he’s canonically considered one of the four strongest Ultra in the series. And currently the highest Low 2-C in the series that’s not a fusion would be in the tens of thousands of times baseline.

TheKingStrategist13 · Jan 4, 2023

I'm just afraid that this might end up as a lose-lose situation, where either Neptune one shots, or Belial grow's and One shots, and it will all be over quickly either way. Assuming that Belial's absorption is fast enough, then Belial wins. If not or if they fight anywhere outside of Geeds world, Nep likely one shots.

Does Belials other stats also increase?

Peter1129 · Jan 4, 2023

Yeah that‘s definitely a problem. I think it boosts everything outside of speed. Speed is just something that doesn’t increase much in the series no matter how much stronger you get. Like base forms are often shown to still be able to somewhat keep up with ultimate forms in pretty much every series. I assume the potency of Belial’s abilities would also be increased once he absorbs more energy as his abilities are done through his own energy.

Kisaragi_Megumi · Jan 4, 2023

Done adding Geed Homeworld for the start of the battle

Kisaragi_Megumi · Jan 4, 2023

Now i don't need to redoing this match once Neptunia CRT get accepted, thanks King#Kneel

thetechmaster36 · Jan 4, 2023

Aight well now this just becomes a case of whether or not Belial can put Neptune down (aka absorb enough energy to neg her AP and Dura) before she can one-shot him

thetechmaster36 · Jan 4, 2023

Kisaragi_Megumi said:
Now i don't need to redoing this match once Neptunia CRT get accepted, thanks King#Kneel

are you sure about that

Kisaragi_Megumi · Jan 4, 2023

thetechmaster36 said:
are you sure about that

Ye lel
Even if the CRT made Neptune AP way higher in scaling, Belial can still catch it up with King's Energy
He still lose nonetheless at least from what i see but without the massive AP gap like before

TheKingStrategist13 · Jan 4, 2023

I don't think Nep's speed is enough to Blitz, unfortunately, and she doesn't have access to a really big Wincon (Looking at you, NEXT Form's Concept Manip.).

This is a big stretch but, could Neptune possibly Seal him with Share Energy?

thetechmaster36 · Jan 4, 2023

TheKingStrategist13 said:
This is a big stretch but, could Neptune possibly Seal him with Share Energy?

She could, but it's super out-of-character, and she only did it in RB;2's Normal Ending when they thought there was no other option left

Neptune vs Ultraman Belial

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ALTERNATE TITLE: HYPER-CRISIS NEPTUNIA!

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