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NEP aspect type 5 for Graham. Maou Gakuin

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ActuallySpaceMan said:
Conceptual Nonexistence: These are characters for which one or multiple concepts, that are necessary for their own existence, are nonexistent.

Lacking a source qualifies for Aspect Type 2.
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I still don't see you commenting anything regarding this.

Dog3352 said:
And this CRT is not just about Graham existing even without the source, have you seen the CRT links?
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Dude stop it for a bit you also don't understand what type 5 is.
 
Dog3352 said:
I understand averagely, anyway, I have to make my coffee
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You are arguing for his True Form existing without root which is wrong.
EldemadeDityjon said:
True form exist without Emptiness. Emptiness exist without root. What you are Claiming is pure headcanon. Atleast read the scans what I sent.

Click to expand...

Read it. True form is something else from Emptiness which exists without root.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
True form exist without Emptiness. Emptiness exist without root. What you are Claiming is pure headcanon. Atleast read the scans what I sent.
Click to expand...
Ok, so Graham Existing < Graham is Nothingness with no Root < Graham is a different nothingness than the nothingness from before.

What part of this are you saying qualifies for Aspect Type 5?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
You are arguing for his True Form existing without root which is wrong.


Read it. True form is something else from Emptiness which exists without root.
Click to expand...
That wasn't really what I wanted to argue about, I just wanted to talk about something like that, but I totally forgot what it was. (I just kept going because I hate people who contradict in their own words)
 
ActuallySpaceMan said:
Ok, so Graham Existing < Graham is Nothingness with no Root < Graham is a different nothingness than the nothingness from before.

What part of this are you saying qualifies for Aspect Type 5?
Click to expand...
True form lacks the aspects of emptiness when emptiness itself lacks the aspects for fundamental concepts.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
True form lacks the aspects of emptiness when emptiness itself lacks the aspects for fundamental concepts.
Click to expand...
That the Graham root has no destiny and no law and certainty, since the previous CRT was accepted, but is it certain about life and death?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
True form lacks the aspects of emptiness when emptiness itself lacks the aspects for fundamental concepts.
Click to expand...
Ok, you're being a lot more reasonable than the other guy so let's try to work this out.

Existence (Root/Source = Fundamental Concept), Emptiness (Lacks Root/Source = Aspect Type 2 NEP), Graham True Form Emptiness (Lacks the Emptiness from before)

I can understand that, however, what makes the Emptiness he had before he reached his True Form Fundamental?
 
Dog3352 said:
That the Graham root has no destiny and no law and certainty, since the previous CRT was accepted, but is it certain about life and death?
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Dude again that's not what we are discussing here. Just let me handle it. Other people already nitpicking and ignoring many things. Making them confuse gonna just reject the CRT.
 
Anyway I don't even care much, this account is not mine. (I got my brother's account, he's probably going to be mad at me, he and who knows about this kind of thing, not me)
 
But I won't lie, I'm curious about aspect 5 (maybe I'll ask my brother about it later)
 
ActuallySpaceMan said:
Ok, you're being a lot more reasonable than the other guy so let's try to work this out.

Existence (Root/Source = Fundamental Concept), Emptiness (Lacks Root/Source = Aspect Type 2 NEP), Graham True Form Emptiness (Lacks the Emptiness from before)

I can understand that, however, what makes the Emptiness he had before he reached his True Form Fundamental?
Click to expand...
Check the scans. His true form clearly distinguished as different from the Emptiness he had before.

This is first time his Source getting erased later no laws concepts or anything could interact with him. As you said it's type 2.
根源は消え、体さえも消滅した。
　だが、確かにそいつはそこにいる。
The root is gone, even the body is gone.
　But it is certainly there.
無があるといったところか
　無がそこに存在し、活動している。
"Nothingness is there, or something like that."
　Nothingness is there and active.
Click to expand...
This is later when that aspect type 2 getting erased by Venozdonor
「滅ぼしたからといって、それが永遠だと思うかい？」
　響いた声は、俺の背後から。
　姿形は見えず、ただ乱竄神鎌ベフェヌグズドグマだけが、浮かび上がっている。
　さながら、そこにいる何者かが持ち上げているかのように。
　先程の虚無とは違うな。
"Do you think that just because you've destroyed it, it's forever?"
　The voice echoed from behind me.
　No figure could be seen, only the fiery scythe, Befenugsdogma, was floating in the air.
　It was as if something there was lifting it up.
　It is different from the emptiness I saw earlier.
Click to expand...
It's specifically stated as different from what there before.
「だけど、滅びた後のなにもない無が、理さえ伴わない虚無こそが、僕の根源の本来の姿だ」
　理滅剣は、確かに奴の虚無を滅ぼした。
"But the emptiness of nothingness after the destruction, the emptiness without even reason, is the true form of my root."
　The Sword of destruction has indeed destroyed his emptiness.
Click to expand...
It's clearly mentioned the emptiness which he become after his source got destroyed was erased by Venozdonor. He exist even without that and can still talk and think.
 
ActuallySpaceMan said:
Alright, I'm about to break this down from my understanding, any sarcasm is unwelcomed.

1; Graham lacks a source currently and still does not qualify for Type 5 Aspect.

2; What makes Order so fundamental is that without Order there is no existence, Graham already lacks existence so this changes nothing.

3; Order is more conceptual than normal conceptual stuff but is still conceptual and therefore not qualifying as Aspect Type 5. Plot or whatever is irrelevant as that is also not Type 5.

4; Fate & Laws are not accepted as Type 5 by themselves and it has to be stated that they are fundamental DIRECTLY. Saying Order is Law & Fate and without Order you don't exist just loops back into #2.

So how do we solve this? List one thing, just one, just one fundamental aspect of Order that is not related to the Mind, Body, Soul nor related to Concepts, Information, Laws, or Fate.

Just one single thing that is not "His entire existence on a more fundamental level" cause you need some sort of scan that says exactly that.
Click to expand...
Lemme just clarify something.

You all already know the source is fundamental for existence, graham doesn't have NEP 2 because he doesn't have a source, he has a source but the source itself is non existent.

His true form now lacks even the source (NEP 2) that's fundamental to a characters existence.

Does this help? @Yemma670
 
Ok, I understand what you are all saying now, I've never seen a situation like this so I'm switching to neutral. It would really help if DontTalk or someone could clarify in case a situation like this appears in the future.
 
Dog3352 said:
If you don't know the BASICS of Maou Gakuin, then why did you join the CRT?
Click to expand...
People are free to express their opinion, just because they don't know the verse doesn't mean they somehow disallowed to comment, it is the verse supporters job to explain the reason
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Lemme just clarify something.

You all already know the source is fundamental for existence, graham doesn't have NEP 2 because he doesn't have a source, he has a source but the source itself is non existent.

His true form now lacks even the source (NEP 2) that's fundamental to a characters existence.
Click to expand...
He have normal source when that gets negged he becomes nothingness which is NEP type 2. When that aspect gets negged he goes to his true form which lacks every Aspects.
Tatsumi504 said:
Does this help? @Yemma670
Click to expand...
He admitted he disagree with whatever Fixxed says don't bother justifying him. It's a waste of time.
 
Vietthai96 said:
People are free to express their opinion, just because they don't know the verse doesn't mean they somehow disallowed to comment, it is the verse supporters job to explain the reason
Click to expand...
I'm just a kid who got into his brother's account to cause discord, you don't have to mind me here.

I don't even know how NEP4 and NEP5 works, as I said earlier, I just came to cause discord (to annoy my brother)
 
seriously, I want to try to understand why you are disagreeing with this, at least read the explanation of what aspect type 5 is?

These characters lack some other fundamental aspect that would be necessary for a normal being's existence or have a nonexistent one
Click to expand...

the "Source" is a fundamental aspect for ALL the characters of the verse to exist, without them no one exists or is born on an infinite scale since the Source encompasses infinite reincarnations of that being

Graham is able to "exist" thanks to its source being conceptual nonexistence itself.

this is so simple and straight to the point
 
Guileal said:
seriously, I want to try to understand why you are disagreeing with this, at least read the explanation of what aspect type 5 is?



the "Source" is a fundamental aspect for ALL the characters of the verse to exist, without them no one exists or is born on an infinite scale since the Source encompasses infinite reincarnations of that being

Graham is able to "exist" thanks to its source being conceptual nonexistence itself.

this is so simple and straight to the point
Click to expand...
I hope he ain't bringing ActuallySpaceMan argument because he is also neutral on this topic
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
Not sure if a nonexistent source can be counted as Type 5, since it's still a concept. This just seems like a deeper level of Type 2.
Click to expand...
You're confused? The source is fundamental for everyone in reality. Even graham who is nothingness still has a source but the source itself is non existent in nature. This already covers the NEP 2 aspect type 2

We now have proof that even non existent beings still have a source only that the source is non existent which should prove how fundamental the source is.

His true form now doesn't even have a source at all which is something even non existent beings have.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
You're confused? The source is fundamental for everyone in reality. Even graham who is nothingness still has a source but the source itself is non existent in nature. This already covers the NEP 2 aspect type 2

We now have proof that even non existent beings still have a source only that the source is non existent which should prove how fundamental the source is.

His true form now doesn't even have a source at all which is something even non existent beings have.
Click to expand...
Dude let's stop confusing let's just go with his source destruction leads to his emptiness aspect and his emptiness aspects destruction leads him to true form that's very easy to understand. Repeating source this & source that would only leave everyone confused.
 
Neutral, leaning towards to disagreeing but might change depending on what the input is the knowledgeable staff is gonna give.
 
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé said:
From Actually Spacemans argument
Click to expand...
Didn’t spaceman kinda back off(not sure how to say it) from disagreement since it’s quite the unique case? (Idk if I missed any msg’s from them so I may be wrong) {not trying to cause any drama} but can you really use someone else’s reasons for disagreement if they aren’t sure what they are talking about?

I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE WITH THIS MSG.
 
WarbleComeBack said:
Didn’t spaceman kinda back off(not sure how to say it) from disagreement since it’s quite the unique case? (Idk if I missed any msg’s from them so I may be wrong) {not trying to cause any drama} but can you really use someone else’s reasons for disagreement if they aren’t sure what they are talking about?

I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE WITH THIS MSG.
Click to expand...
I mean that's why i'm just leaning towards it not completely disagree if a staff confirms what he said is correct i'll disagree, and if it's incorrect i'll agree. I'm just waiting if it's correct or not so i can switch my vote.
 
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