NEP aspect type 5 for Graham. Maou Gakuin

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I think he's saying even if his fate and laws are nonexistent, they aren't fundamental so their nonexistence still doesn't matter.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I think he's saying even if his fate and laws are nonexistent, they aren't fundamental so their nonexistence still doesn't matter.

Pretty much this. Although I'm neutral,NEP standards are a pain in the ass 9/10 times for me.

Not that it matters to such an OP character lol.

 

[Fixxed]

Fate and law are NOT fundamental to begin with. So it doesn't matter.

He still won't qualify

Not just the fundamental aspect can get that

 

[ImmortalDread]

Is information fundamental aspect?

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Is information fundamental aspect?

It depends on the type of information

 

[ImmortalDread]

It depends on the type of information

Mind clarifying?

 

[Sniper670]

Not just the fundamental aspect can get that

If that was the case then we would be listing anything at all for aspect type 5.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Mind clarifying?

Information Type 1 is knowledge information, while Information Type 2 is the fundamental information of reality.

Lacking the latter would qualify for NEP aspect Type 5.

 

[Dereck03]

Can't comment much on the matter rn, but order is also dualities and reason is far beyond order, and Graham's unbound and beyond both order and reason.

 

[Sniper670]

Can't comment much on the matter rn, but order is also dualities and reason is far beyond order, and Graham's unbound and beyond both order and reason.

Imma be real with ya. None of what you mentioned is relevant to this thread.

It would be better to name the specific fundamental aspect so this crt can get through quickly

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Information Type 1 is knowledge information, while Information Type 2 is the fundamental information of reality.

Lacking the latter would qualify for NEP aspect Type 5.

No lacking Information Type 2 is Aspect Type 4.

The Fundamental things must not be Mind, Soul, Concept & Information.

 

[Catpija]

Ahh i read that again
Is not just fundamental aspect

its fundamental aspect that needed for someone's existence or a nonexistence fundamental aspect, its basically the same

Other: These characters lack some other fundamental aspect that would be necessary for a normal being's existence or have a nonexistent one. Examples would include things like lacking a history. They are hence immune to abilities that target that respective aspect. Which aspect should be mentioned on the profile, together with any detail regarding what it makes them immune to.

So its still need to be a fundamental aspect, you don't become "nonexistence" by having non-existent fate, or other such as life, death, and law

 

[Fixxed]

If that was the case then we would be listing anything at all for aspect type 5.

Or have a nonexistent one

If that being logically, and if that is supernatural/abstraction thing

 

[Fixxed]

its fundamental aspect that needed for someone's existence or a nonexistence fundamental aspect, its basically the same



So its still need to be a fundamental aspect, you don't become "nonexistence" by having non-existent fate, or other such as life, death, and law

I want to know how you interpret the "or" meaning

 

[Sniper670]

You do realize they didn't disassociate the word "Fundamental" from both statements

 

[Catpija]

I want to know how you interpret the "or" meaning

Or have a nonexistent one

you do realise that "one" here refer to the fundamental aspect right? it didnt said "have any nonexistence aspect", it said lacking a fundamental aspect needed for existence or a nonexistence one

 

[Fixxed]

You do realize they didn't disassociate the word "Fundamental" from both statements

you do realise that "one" here refer to the fundamental aspect right? it didnt said "have any nonexistence aspect", it said lacking a fundamental aspect needed for existence or a nonexistence one

My interpret is they disassociate the first santence and the next use "or"

And the meaning "one" is "other one". I think in english they use "one" for add more option or add other thing

And this like the first propesed abou type 5. The "one" in here is not mean fundamental, but something that the character will behave that is not exist

https://vsbattles.com/threads/proposal-for-a-nonexistent-physiology-revision.129711/:

Other: These characters lack some other fundamental aspect that would be necessary for a normal being's existence or have one that behaves as if nonexistent*. Examples would include things like lacking an information body, a history or a place in the narrative of their story. They are hence immune to abilities that target that respective aspect. Which aspect should be mentioned on the profile.

*To behave as if nonexistent means that the characters have the respective aspect in some sense, but paradoxically behave as if they don't when attacked. To qualify for that, a character needs to be stated to be immune to manipulations of that nature due to their nonexistence. An example of that would be a character who is able to think, and hence has a mind, but is stated to be immune to regular mind manipulation as said mind is paradoxically nonexistent in nature.

 

[Sniper670]

Is the wording that confusing?

 

[Fixxed]

Is the wording that confusing?

I will ask DT for that

 

[Tatsumi504]

Wow, all this chaos over what should be a really simple thread

 

[Tatsumi504]

What would qualify for aspect type 5 though besides history? Just curious

 

[ImmortalDread]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/help-with-nonexistent-physiology-for-a-character.132271/#post-4540657

I found this

 

[Sniper670]

Material nonexistence is nature type 1

What op presented doesn't qualify. You'd better show us a fundamental aspect or this is a waste of time

 

[Sniper670]

What would qualify for aspect type 5 though besides history? Just curious

Something that is necessary for someone in Maou to exist besides the 4 aspect types shown...

Anything of that aspect that doesn't fit any of the first 4 aspect type, but is necessary for someone's existence, goes to type 5 aspect.

If none of what you mentioned is fundamental, I'm afraid we're just wasting our time here. Thats besides the fact op himself is not listening to anything we tell him, even when he's fundamentally wrong

 

[Catpija]

My interpret is they disassociate the first santence and the next use "or"

They only disassociate the existent/non-existent part, its still talks about fundamental aspect

And the meaning "one" is "other one". I think in english they use "one" for add more option or add other thing

Depending on the context, it can also mention about the former one with some exception, for example

"Every swordman in One Piece are either have a normal sword, or one with permanent haki"

in this case, "one" still discuss about sword, but additionally with another specification such as haki

And this like the first propesed abou type 5. The "one" in here is not mean fundamental, but something that the character will behave that is not exist

Other: These characters lack some other fundamental aspect that would be necessary for a normal being's existence or have one that behaves as if nonexistent*. Examples would include things like lacking an information body, a history or a place in the narrative of their story. They are hence immune to abilities that target that respective aspect. Which aspect should be mentioned on the profile.

*To behave as if nonexistent means that the characters have the respective aspect in some sense, but paradoxically behave as if they don't when attacked. To qualify for that, a character needs to be stated to be immune to manipulations of that nature due to their nonexistence. An example of that would be a character who is able to think, and hence has a mind, but is stated to be immune to regular mind manipulation as said mind is paradoxically nonexistent in nature.

this still mean the same though?

 

[ShivaShakti]

Lacking fate would simply be Acausality.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Something that is necessary for someone in Maou to exist besides the 4 aspect types shown...

Anything of that aspect that doesn't fit any of the first 4 aspect type, but is necessary for someone's existence, goes to type 5 aspect.

If none of what you mentioned is fundamental, I'm afraid we're just wasting our time here. Thats besides the fact op himself is not listening to anything we tell him, even when he's fundamentally wrong

Order= Dualities, non duality, fundamental concepts, laws, fate that governs all things in reality.

Reason/logic is >>>Order

Graham's true form is unbound and above all order and lacks even reason itself.

Does graham lacking reason in this scenario qualify as reason is above even order? If it doesn't then I think this can be closed.

 

[Sniper670]

Then I guess this can be closed.

None of what you said will have any effect of this thread that isn't already covered elsewhere

 

[ImmortalDread]

Then I guess this can be closed.

None of what you said will have any effect of this thread that isn't already covered elsewhere

How tho? You did not see the definition of Order? Mind elaborating how this does not affect it anywhere?

 

[Sniper670]

Imma head out of this thread.

There's no point arguing something that won't go anywhere

Edit: me and the others have weighed in and op isn't getting aspect type 5. The rest is over to you

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Graham existence lacks order which is essential to exist in the verse. Don't see why it's not type 5.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Graham existence lacks order which is essential to exist in the verse. Don't see why it's not type 5.

Exactly, he already explained it above, he just did not bother to see it

 

[Orioreeem]

If it has to be fundamental aspect like first 4 types aee then I dsagree with this. Order isn't fundamental for Graham's existance. Tho the wording is confusing and Iirc if you are shown to be immunte to a power because of nep then you would get type 5 because after nep revision characters aren't immune to all powers anymore, just soul mind information and concpet manipulation based on first four aspects and for type 5 if you lack for example fate because of nep you would be immune to manipulation of it. I'd like mod input on this preferably @DontTalkDT and @Elizhaa

 

[wwereymy235]

If it has to be fundamental aspect like first 4 types aee then I dsagree with this. Order isn't fundamental for Graham's existance. Tho the wording is confusing and Iirc if you are shown to be immunte to a power because of nep then you would get type 5 because after nep revision characters aren't immune to all powers anymore, just soul mind information and concpet manipulation based on first four aspects and for type 5 if you lack for example fate because of nep you would be immune to manipulation of it. I'd like mod input on this preferably @DontTalkDT and @Elizhaa

Reason is a fundamental thing everyone in maou gakuin has, and Graham lacks it. So he can get it via lack of reason.

 

[Orioreeem]

Reason would be fundamental to reality like order is, not characters.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Reason is a fundamental thing everyone in maou gakuin has, and Graham lacks it. So he can get it via lack of reason.

Reason is not fundamental. Order is what makes anything in the verse what it is. Even time and space concepts are based on order.

Reason would be fundamental to reality like order is, not characters.

^

Reason surpasses order. LMAO its like a plot hax in the verse. Completely overturns Everything.

Well that doens't change the fact Graham's true form lacking even reason. Which should Qualify for type 5.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Exactly, he already explained it above, he just did not bother to see it

People who disagreeing here have zero knowledge on the verse. Order is what makes and what keeps ones existence what it is in MGF. Lacking order would mean they're completely lacking existence itself. Graham lacking reason is even bigger reason why he should get type 5.

 

[ImmortalDread]

People who disagreeing here have zero knowledge on the verse. Order is what makes and what keeps ones existence what it is in MGF. Lacking order would mean they're completely lacking existence itself. Graham lacking reason is even bigger reason why he should get type 5.

Exactly. Yap. Waiting for more staff inputs

 

[Catpija]

People who disagreeing here have zero knowledge on the verse. Order is what makes and what keeps ones existence what it is in MGF. Lacking order would mean they're completely lacking existence itself. Graham lacking reason is even bigger reason why he should get type 5.

Well in my defense, the OP said that Graham only lack fate, law, life and death

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Well in my defense, the OP said that Graham only lack fate, law, life and death

Well he didn't put it clearly. Without order nothing exists in the verse. Graham's nothingness lacks order (which is essential to exist in the verse ) and reason (which is literally like a plot type of thing which overturns order to it's liking). He can exist even without those things. Without root no one can exist in the verse. You can regenerate destroyed root by HGR but Graham is the only one who can even exist without having the root which is fundamental concepts for everyones existence.