• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Necrozoma: Absorbing the light of the universe

I think Garchomp was referring to the first calc in the blog, rather than the updated one in the blog comments that was accepted.
 
Okay, so I actually talked to Cal Howard a little bit just now and he decided to give some of his thoughts.

Due to the feat being just barely above Baseline, he suggested that Mega Mewtwo be downscaled to 4A as he barely fought off 50% Zygarde and got defeated in a single dragon pulse attack'

The rest are safely at 3C
 
Schnee_One said:
Okay, so I actually talked to Cal Howard a little bit just now and he decided to give some of his thoughts.

Due to the feat being just barely above Baseline, he suggested that Mega Mewtwo be downscaled to 4A as he barely fought off 50% Zygarde and got defeated in a single dragon pulse attack'

The rest are safely at 3C
Click to expand...
I am guessing Shiny Genesect would also downscale and everyone who scales to The Tao Trio would become baseline 3-C or above
 
By downscaling, the Tapus, Ultra Beasts, Silvally and Melmetal should be 4-A too. Potentially Solgaleo + Lunala too.
 
GyroNutz said:
By downscaling, the Tapus, Ultra Beasts, Silvally and Melmetal should be 4-A too. Potentially Solgaleo + Lunala too.
Click to expand...
The Light Trio in their base forms are fine. The feat scales to base Necrozma and Solgaleo and Lunala are their equals. Everyone else tho just becomes 4-A+.
 
Okay, so to explain why im disagreeing with just 4-A being the lowball, there's a small thing I want to try clearing up here first. And that's the small misconception about the strength difference between Mega Mewtwo and Zygarde. Now, don't get me wrong. Mega Mewtwo is most definitely weaker than 50% Zygarde. That we all agree on. But people are over-exaggerating the power difference between the 2 now that I've actually re-read the fight scenes again.

To start off, Lysander was exploiting Mewtwo's weakness to have Zygarde get the better of it. Mewtwo's difficulty against Zygarde wasn't just because of the differences in their power. Lysander took advantage of the weakness Mewtwo has with him and Blaine being synced together, and even pointed this out when using Gyrados to attack Blaine and make Mega Mewtwo Y's mega evolution vanish. We even see this being implied to happen moments afterwards when Zygarde uses camoflouge to vanish, appear in front of Blaine using Crunch, and Mewtwo pivoting around as Mega Mewtwo X blocking the attack to protect him.

Then we move on to the next chapter, and the same thing happens again. Zygarde uses Dragon Pulse to attack the both of them, which knocks Mewtwo out as a result of his sync with Blaines. More key words to look at here also are Lysander requesting Zygarde to use Dragon Pulse "once more". "Once more" means this attack that knocked Mewtwo out wasn't one attack. That between Mewtwo blocking Zygarde's crunch in the previous chapter, and getting hit with another Dragon Pulse in the following chapter, there was more of a fight going on off-panel then what is shown.

Finally, another detail that everyone should pay attention to here is the fact that Mewtwo was only knocked out. Even after getting hit with another Dragon Pulse, Mewtwo remains Mega Evolved afterwards. And as im sure a lot of us knows, Pokemon has clearly hammered in the point that the only time a Mega Evolved Pokemon is 100% defeated is when they De-Mega Evolve at the end back into their base forms, since all of their strength would be used up at this point. But that isn't the case here for Mewtwo since it still maintained its Mega Evolution when taking the point-blank range hit from Dragon Pulse. That speaks to Mega Mewtwo being more capable of handling Zygarde's power then given credit for, even with his sync with Blaine's being an attributing disadvantage on top of that.

Case end point, is Mega Mewtwo weaker than 50% Zygarde? Most definitely. But he isn't so much weaker to the point where he'd get one shotted after parrying a few attacks like the claims above make.
 
And as for the downscaling resulting in just 4-A+ otherwise, im not seeing what justifies this instead of just making these guys baseline 3-C as part of the downscaling given the massive AP difference 3-C allows for, even more than 4-A (which is like millions or even billions of times apart within the tier).
 
Because the feat is already ridiculously close to baseline as it is, so there is no "Massive difference in AP"

There would be literally no notable difference in strength whatsover if Mewtwo was 1.137 x weaker
 
Schnee_One said:
Because the feat is already ridiculously close to baseline as it is, so there is no "Massive difference in AP"
Click to expand...
Yes but there is a massive difference between the weakest 3-C and the strongest 4-A from what I understand of the tiering system at this point. What justifies the downscaling to drop from 3-C instead of just being ordinary 3-C?

And as I gave a counter argument for, Mewtwo isn't drastically weaker than Zygarde like it was put above.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Yes but there is a massive difference between the weakest 3-C and the strongest 4-A from what I understand of the tiering system at this point. What justifies the downscaling to drop from 3-C instead of just being ordinary 3-C?

And as I gave a counter argument for, Mewtwo isn't drastically weaker than Zygarde like it was put above.
Click to expand...
No there isn't, the gap between 4A and Necorzma's feat is 1.138x that is RIDICULOUSLY small, if Mewtwo was seriously that close to Zygarde the difference in strength would be non existent like I already said.

The fact that there even is a notable strength gap in any way should disprove that Mewtwo is that close in strength.
 
The_real_cal_howard said:
No...there's not...
Click to expand...
So your saying the weakest 3-C isn't stronger than the highest amount of 4-A to the point that it's one shot worthy?
Schnee_One said:
No there isn't, the gap between 4A and Necorzma's feat is 1.138x that is RIDICULOUSLY small, if Mewtwo was seriously that close to Zygarde the difference in strength would be non existent like I already said.

The fact that there even is a notable strength gap in any way should disprove that Mewtwo is that close in strength.
Click to expand...
Thats being arbitrary about the strength difference and how it ties into this 1.138x difference. You'd need to prove that this strength difference would justify dropping out of 3-C, and this difference isn't even as big in the first place as earlier claims specify.
 
BTW, im not pushing for a flat out 3-C given how close the feat is to baseline 3-C. Im just genuinely not seeing why the scaling wouldn't be 3-C in general, even if only at best giving them "Possibly" to the rating.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
So your saying the weakest 3-C isn't stronger than the highest amount of 4-A to the point that it's one shot worthy?

Thats being arbitrary about the strength difference and how it ties into this 1.138x difference. You'd need to prove that this strength difference would justify dropping out of 3-C, and this difference isn't even as big in the first place as earlier claims specify.
Click to expand...
1. Not quite, This isn’t a matter of the weakest 3C compared to the strongest 4A, that’s irrelevant, it’s a matter of the numerical gap between the tiers. You can be 999 Megatons vs 1000 megatons and yet the non existent difference is divided by tiers (7a and High 7A), but if you are clearly weaker then the 1000 megaton character, there's no way you stay in that tier, because of that small difference not being relevant, same case here

2. Even when not exploiting Mewtwo's weakness, Zygarde clearly physically overpowers him multiple times, though I don't have scans on me just now, I think Gyro and Cal can help me out there
 
Okay then.....nvm on that point then.

Still, I don't quite think the small difference between Mewtwo and Zygarde has to necessarily means it drops out of 3-C as a whole given the context of it. That seems arbitrary.

It should also be reminded that this slightly above 3-C feat is for Base Necrozma (Ultra Necrozma is outright said to be far superior to the form Necrozma used for lighting up Ultra Space and absorbing it's light, which this 3-C feat comes from). The form Zygarde starts downscaling from is Ultra Necrozma, and if the difference between 50% and Perfect Zygarde means anything (it should be linear), the scaling staying 3-C is possible.
 
50% Zygarde should be about 1.5x the feat maximum. The feat is base Necrozma, Ultra Necrozma is anywhere from 2 to 3x stronger, 100% Zygarde is its equal, and 50% Zygarde is approximately half of 100% Zygarde. Which would still put Mega Mewtwo at peak 4-A. At most, I could see the literal baseline for 3-C, but idk why you'd want that over peak 4-A.
 
Pretty much that^

So it comes down to whether or not the difference shown between Mewtwo and Zygarde is either small enough to stay in 3-C or big enough to drop to 4-A.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot to post this scan earlier with the rest. Mewtwo gets back up to fight in the very next chapter after the one Zygarde knocked it out in, and Mewtwo still remains Mega Evolved with no real notable damage.

So the dragon pulse that Zygarde used to momentarily knock Mega Mewtwo X out didn't seem to even do that much.
 
For mewtwo both seem equally viable so mega mewtwo could be at least 5-B+ likely 4-A+ to 3-C or something like that
 
Schnee_One said:
Speaking of which, what are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
I'd be fine either way. In terms of scaling, I'd put Zygarde a bit above Solgaleo/Lunala, and correct me if I'm wrong but the Zygarde that Mega Mewtwo fought was amped by Xerneas + Yveltal's energy.
 
GyroNutz said:
I'd be fine either way. In terms of scaling, I'd put Zygarde a bit above Solgaleo/Lunala, and correct me if I'm wrong but the Zygarde that Mega Mewtwo fought was amped by Xerneas + Yveltal's energy.
Click to expand...
I think the amped by their energy bit was debunked here. I could've sworn it was anyway.
 
While we're here, I kinda wanna remove the "likely/possibly" for those that scale to 50%. It was done for conservatism but it's very blatant that it scales to the Light Trio. They should just be a solid tier.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Flashlight237
MFTL+: Is It Too Broad?
Replies
8
Views
698
CloverDragon03
CloverDragon03
Armorchompy
  • Locked
Updating and Rewording the Light/Laser Standards Page
Replies
39
Views
2K
Antvasima
Antvasima
TheGodOfICE777
  • Locked
Infinite Universe (Easy Route)
2 3
Replies
102
Views
14K
LordGriffin1000
LordGriffin1000
CNBA3
Expansion Speed of the Universe?
Replies
12
Views
2K
CNBA3
CNBA3
Second22
One-Punch Man: The actual time frame of the light trail's existence
Replies
20
Views
4K
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
Back
Top