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Also
@Andrew48
Thank you for answering my questions. I forgot to say such earlier.
@Andrew48
Thank you for answering my questions. I forgot to say such earlier.
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"Natural Power" my arse, Kamijou Touma vs Han Jee-Han
- Thread starter Ricsi-viragosi
- Start date
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Voting Touma FRA, since most of the stuff I was initially gonna say was already mentioned.
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Note.
Nothing's stopping Han from sticking in range, alongside dropping a giant building on top of him. Something that noticeably troubled Touma on the manga and needed Gunha's help to defend him from.
Also thanks Lit
Nothing's stopping Han from sticking in range, alongside dropping a giant building on top of him. Something that noticeably troubled Touma on the manga and needed Gunha's help to defend him from.
Also thanks Lit
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Of course, Core. I hope it went well.
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Bump
Ps, it went meh
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0_0
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No biggie lol. Anyway why are the votes for Touma 3 again? If it's under the idea that Touma beats him in close combat those votes would mean mook.
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If Han can just fly up and drop a building on Touma with no way to defend himself isn't this just a Stomp making the battle invalid? If so, I would call a mismatch. Also if the fight were to continue into a fist fight would IB nullify his intelligence since it results from a stat he increased using his power and what would he do if Gamer's Mind stopped taking effect since Han relies on it so heavily?I
I would call a Stomp or Inconclusive.
I would call a Stomp or Inconclusive.
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Han still has martial arts knowledge. Taking away his well above average intelligence doesn't take away the muscle memory that comes with being a martial artist.
I think it's more so that Han is too wary of Touma to just engage in CQC even with such a close starting distance. Han can't drop a building on Touma, I don't think his telekinesis has shown that level of strength. Majority of Han's first attacks wouldn't work, and many of his secondary attacks wouldn't work. He certainly wouldn't want to get close to someone who's mere existence seems to be nullifying all his attacks with their existence.
It would take Han a bit to try to defeat Touma without indirectly using magic on him. Like trapping him in a hole, or merely outlasting him for a day or two. Touma's win con is really just be punch Han. Which, given the insanely short fighting distance, seems somewhat likely. I'd just argue that Han's character makes it much less likely. And I seem him flying away and figuring things out a more frequent outcome than Touma getting a good shot in right off the bat.
I think it's more so that Han is too wary of Touma to just engage in CQC even with such a close starting distance. Han can't drop a building on Touma, I don't think his telekinesis has shown that level of strength. Majority of Han's first attacks wouldn't work, and many of his secondary attacks wouldn't work. He certainly wouldn't want to get close to someone who's mere existence seems to be nullifying all his attacks with their existence.
It would take Han a bit to try to defeat Touma without indirectly using magic on him. Like trapping him in a hole, or merely outlasting him for a day or two. Touma's win con is really just be punch Han. Which, given the insanely short fighting distance, seems somewhat likely. I'd just argue that Han's character makes it much less likely. And I seem him flying away and figuring things out a more frequent outcome than Touma getting a good shot in right off the bat.
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Gotcha, I sorta just took COBs word for it since I haven't read The Gamer in a while and the power crawl was pretty insane from what I remember. In terms of CQC Touma is still a fairly good street fighter, able to handle at least 2 v 1, and I didn't notice any martial art specific feats on Hans page so under that particular circumstance I still would say inconclusive unless there is a particular feat or quote suggesting otherwise. Though it probably would be OOC of Han. Especially if he is assuming Touma is a mercenary.
As for the range, I can see Han taking it from that with some trouble but unless there is some way for Touma to actually fight back I think the sites rules would still deem it a Stomp. Only way Touma could fight back like that would be if he just so happens to lose his arm to an attack and I don't see that happening by chance unless it is in character for Han to aim to remove it upon realising that it was what kept his powers from working on Touma. I doubt Han can stop those power nullifying dragons.
But I still say Stomp. Touma has no realistic way to win against range.
As for the range, I can see Han taking it from that with some trouble but unless there is some way for Touma to actually fight back I think the sites rules would still deem it a Stomp. Only way Touma could fight back like that would be if he just so happens to lose his arm to an attack and I don't see that happening by chance unless it is in character for Han to aim to remove it upon realising that it was what kept his powers from working on Touma. I doubt Han can stop those power nullifying dragons.
But I still say Stomp. Touma has no realistic way to win against range.
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Gotcha. I think we'll likely just agree to disagree here. I don't see Touma getting in an early hit on Han as strictly impossible, just very improbable. Especially since he would be unlikely to get a pop-up from his detect bloodlust skill, though I guess it may not be necessary in this case. I simply see Han flying to range and figuring out Touma's weaknesses before incaping him through intelligence happening much more than Touma getting in that early hit. However, because that early hit is still possible from this distance, I can't say that Touma has no win con.
Han displayed some martial arts feats against Yoohwa Shi. Though we haven't seen him fight in a one versus many battle of pure CQC.
Han displayed some martial arts feats against Yoohwa Shi. Though we haven't seen him fight in a one versus many battle of pure CQC.
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I can only assume that Han will choose range since the OP states specifically "Han believes Touma is a mercenary sent to kill him and attacks him accordingly" as a condition. There are few, if any, times of Han just going straight into CQC and with his high INT I can't see him approaching Touma thoughtlessly. After seeing Touma negate magic once it's safe to say that he would just wear Touma down from a distance.
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I mean, Han is possibly going to put up a mana barrier, or just make a earth wall and try a spinning mana ball blast.
I could change it to his 8-c key tough, since that one can't fly directly.
I could change it to his 8-c key tough, since that one can't fly directly.
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In all cases, Han can fly.
The first key is pre-training yet he's able to do something akin to it.
On the other hand doesn't Han have a lot of feats countering power null lately? I forgot since I haven't kept up.And if Hana uses mana blast, and Touma nulls it, he'll realize that the guy can null powers and he's likely NOT gonna attack or defend with something he can null.
The first key is pre-training yet he's able to do something akin to it.
On the other hand doesn't Han have a lot of feats countering power null lately? I forgot since I haven't kept up.And if Hana uses mana blast, and Touma nulls it, he'll realize that the guy can null powers and he's likely NOT gonna attack or defend with something he can null.
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Pre loli Han can at most erect an earth pillar, but he doesn't really start with it.
He still has jis inteligence and martial arts advantage tough.
He still has jis inteligence and martial arts advantage tough.
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As for powernull, Touma's powernull is far too strong for it. The only powernull supposed to nullify all magic regardless of AP affected him as well.
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I agree that a counter probably wouldn't work since Toumas power null is a special case in fiction as it technically isn't magic or supernatural (as weird as that sounds). Anything that is unnatrual to the world (his world specifically) is erased. It's like a save state you could say.
As far as I can tell Han almost always starts with making a barrier before fighting an opponent. When you don't know what you're up against that would be the smart and safest thing to do.
As far as I can tell Han almost always starts with making a barrier before fighting an opponent. When you don't know what you're up against that would be the smart and safest thing to do.
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Post season 2 he normally flies up and snipes to be honest. In this key he tries to get farther and snipe. There is a chance that he would make a barrier since the enemy is so close tough.
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@ Risci
Gotcha on the power null thing and attacks of flight.
But yeah even prior to that he thinks smart and bombards the enemy from afar. If he can observe and analyze Touma's stats, he'll also get a good idea of what he can do. I forgot if Misaki can affect Touma but since Han can figure out what an opponent's speciality is at a literal glance, either
A - Imagine breaker prevents him from realizing what he can do and he plays very cautiously B - He sees what Touma can do and backs off and bombards accordingly.
If he can't fly in Season 1 it's definitely much fairer then since he can only back off. But can't he still use Gnome to change the Earth beneath him? Then again that would require a bit of prep time.
Gotcha on the power null thing and attacks of flight.
But yeah even prior to that he thinks smart and bombards the enemy from afar. If he can observe and analyze Touma's stats, he'll also get a good idea of what he can do. I forgot if Misaki can affect Touma but since Han can figure out what an opponent's speciality is at a literal glance, either
A - Imagine breaker prevents him from realizing what he can do and he plays very cautiously B - He sees what Touma can do and backs off and bombards accordingly.
If he can't fly in Season 1 it's definitely much fairer then since he can only back off. But can't he still use Gnome to change the Earth beneath him? Then again that would require a bit of prep time.
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He can use gnome, yes. He does need to summon and give commands tough. And she would be tecnically one-shot on touch... And she fuses with all the earth she uses... And if Han's mana gets nulled she also gets nulled.
So she can be countered.
So she can be countered.
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Plus with precog Touma could probably cancel any earth manipulation by touching the ground. I think the fight would be decided on how Han makes his first move. If he focus' in def and att at the start I would say Touma wins more times than not and if he backs off and snipes Han wins more.
My vote goes to inconclusive.
My vote goes to inconclusive.
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Wait.... so if say there's a giant hole in where Touma is and he cancels the attack... he gets tossed upwards? Cause that's not gonna be good for him being sent flying up the air.
Or a general pitfall.
It's the same as using an ice pick you created with magic to make a hole on the wall, and then saying he can somehow negate the damage done.
Also Touma still has no answer for his <Chunbu Swords, Spear, 10 kg Ogre Club.>
Touma doesn't do so well against normal weapons that aren't magic related. Some of them being actual weapons Han picked up from the enemy.
I agree with Gnome being oneshot, but at the same time in that case that exemplifies Gnome as a natural existing being. I remember discussion about that and Ainz were discussed.
But either way nothing's really stopping Han from figuring out that his precog only works for magic, and that he still has actual weapons to toss out, and he still knows how to fight with martial arts. We can't even be truly sure if his negation will negate everything that Han has, considering that Misaka if touched still has lightning inside her body. For all we know he simply 'Silences' the user, but doesn't dispose of every existing mana or knowledge inside Han.
Which means Han can still beat him up with martial arts after. Considering he actually trains himself physically, it makes sense too. Gamer's Body isn't just giving him a new form. It's basically allowing him to keep track of how his body works. If he is touched by Touma, the likely thing that happens is that he can't use any magic or make use of Gamer's Body (which means if someone makes a hole in his body it stays there) or Gamer's Mind (which means he can't keep his cool), but he still definitely has the buff body he has from training and actual knowledge he learnt.
Precog or not Han still has weapons, and actual martial arts.
Or a general pitfall.
It's the same as using an ice pick you created with magic to make a hole on the wall, and then saying he can somehow negate the damage done.
Also Touma still has no answer for his <Chunbu Swords, Spear, 10 kg Ogre Club.>
Touma doesn't do so well against normal weapons that aren't magic related. Some of them being actual weapons Han picked up from the enemy.
I agree with Gnome being oneshot, but at the same time in that case that exemplifies Gnome as a natural existing being. I remember discussion about that and Ainz were discussed.
But either way nothing's really stopping Han from figuring out that his precog only works for magic, and that he still has actual weapons to toss out, and he still knows how to fight with martial arts. We can't even be truly sure if his negation will negate everything that Han has, considering that Misaka if touched still has lightning inside her body. For all we know he simply 'Silences' the user, but doesn't dispose of every existing mana or knowledge inside Han.
Which means Han can still beat him up with martial arts after. Considering he actually trains himself physically, it makes sense too. Gamer's Body isn't just giving him a new form. It's basically allowing him to keep track of how his body works. If he is touched by Touma, the likely thing that happens is that he can't use any magic or make use of Gamer's Body (which means if someone makes a hole in his body it stays there) or Gamer's Mind (which means he can't keep his cool), but he still definitely has the buff body he has from training and actual knowledge he learnt.
Precog or not Han still has weapons, and actual martial arts.
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The weapons he recieved as drops or were made with magic would likely be destoyed upon touch as Touma has been shown to do with magical artifacts. As for Misaka example in the raigun manga when Touma touched her she lost the abilty to use all her powers. It is never stated that she stores the electricty inside herself. Once Touma actually has a hold on someone all powers and buffs related to your ability are void. You basically are just a normal person as long as he is in contact.
As for the martial arts there aren't any clear examlpes of Han using them in actual life or death combat and basic martial arts knowledge means little if the person who you are fighting has more actual hand to hand combat experience. While Accelerator for example isn't the best fighter Touma could only fight him with his right hand and still won while Accelorator could make full use of his abilities.
In the case with the pitfall with precog Touma potentially could touch the ground before the earth actually changed or became too deep to send him flying up in the air. And Imagine Breaker wouldn't classify Gnome as natural to Touma's world which it acts as the "save state" for. Even if we were to say that they happen to be from the same world for the sake of the scenario IB has been shown to work on things like angels which you could argue are natural beings aswell. Technically you could argue that magic is natural since it comes from mana but the point of IB is to return that energy to an unaltered state.
As for the martial arts there aren't any clear examlpes of Han using them in actual life or death combat and basic martial arts knowledge means little if the person who you are fighting has more actual hand to hand combat experience. While Accelerator for example isn't the best fighter Touma could only fight him with his right hand and still won while Accelorator could make full use of his abilities.
In the case with the pitfall with precog Touma potentially could touch the ground before the earth actually changed or became too deep to send him flying up in the air. And Imagine Breaker wouldn't classify Gnome as natural to Touma's world which it acts as the "save state" for. Even if we were to say that they happen to be from the same world for the sake of the scenario IB has been shown to work on things like angels which you could argue are natural beings aswell. Technically you could argue that magic is natural since it comes from mana but the point of IB is to return that energy to an unaltered state.
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Like I said, he also picked up actual weapons not made out of magic. On the other hand to address your point, it was actually discussed in the webtoon that his ability is not just magically creating something and keeping it existing. He brings forth back to existence something. Actual creation. If someone were to say dispel it with magic it would be impossible since it already exists. And makes sense on the energy thing, just rechecked it in Majutsu. But that doesn't mean Han doesn't recover after escaping.
Why did you suddenly refer to Accelerator? Point being, even if Touma gets ahold of him, Han should still be able to escape his grip. Not only is he much stronger physically barely at least, but his knowledge of martial arts should help escape grips. It doesn't help that Touma doesn't have a track record of grabbing someone and pounding at them nonstop. Though that might have happened on the LNs. Before he could even reach Han he'll probably be worn out by the numerous attacks that gets tossed at him even with his precog and negation ability. After all, Touma can still be overwhelmed by attacks coming in from multiple directions.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_8_2OJRa5...q2P-t-fBd02vXRm4BplZxACHM/s16000/0004-018.png
Alright, makes sense. But at the same time I don't see Touma's touchs from somewhere far away could affect Gnome. I can see him touching the ground Gnome is currently affecting to be cancelled or him touching Gnome will negate her, but not Han's mana. And even then if something like say a boulder was tossed at Touma, nothing's gonna save him from the actual velocity of the attack. Misaka tossing a magnetized building was gonna kill him after all.
And Han can still summon multiple golems to stall while he bombards at the same time. Touma has precog that's true. Speed is equalized. But against overwhelming numbers it would be impossible, especially if Han can sneak in and stab him while he's negating a golem. Or even if he does sense him, the golem could already be tossing its body at him, which still has velocity to interrupt.
Why did you suddenly refer to Accelerator? Point being, even if Touma gets ahold of him, Han should still be able to escape his grip. Not only is he much stronger physically barely at least, but his knowledge of martial arts should help escape grips. It doesn't help that Touma doesn't have a track record of grabbing someone and pounding at them nonstop. Though that might have happened on the LNs. Before he could even reach Han he'll probably be worn out by the numerous attacks that gets tossed at him even with his precog and negation ability. After all, Touma can still be overwhelmed by attacks coming in from multiple directions.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_8_2OJRa5...q2P-t-fBd02vXRm4BplZxACHM/s16000/0004-018.png
Alright, makes sense. But at the same time I don't see Touma's touchs from somewhere far away could affect Gnome. I can see him touching the ground Gnome is currently affecting to be cancelled or him touching Gnome will negate her, but not Han's mana. And even then if something like say a boulder was tossed at Touma, nothing's gonna save him from the actual velocity of the attack. Misaka tossing a magnetized building was gonna kill him after all.
And Han can still summon multiple golems to stall while he bombards at the same time. Touma has precog that's true. Speed is equalized. But against overwhelming numbers it would be impossible, especially if Han can sneak in and stab him while he's negating a golem. Or even if he does sense him, the golem could already be tossing its body at him, which still has velocity to interrupt.
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Him being thrown into a hole would need gnome to fuse with the ground under him, which could get her dispelled.
The swords and sword would be weakened due to being magical by nature, but could stay if he took them out of his inventory beforehand. Same for the mace, exept he couldn't lift it if powernulled.
Han does use martial arts in training and direct fights against zombies while trying them out. And experience is a very flimsy resoning on its own. How many times you fought doesn't make you more skilled than a martial atist that spent his life honing his arts but hasn't been in actual battles (his is not the case here, but how many imes did he need to do stuff beyond suckerpunching and how skilled in h2h he enemies he fought would be a beter exemple to give)
And Gnome can only stay conscious due to Han's mana, so she would at the very least become one with the earth if hit.
And golems would just fall apart if touched. Plus he doesn't really spam them yet here, not without prep.
The swords and sword would be weakened due to being magical by nature, but could stay if he took them out of his inventory beforehand. Same for the mace, exept he couldn't lift it if powernulled.
Han does use martial arts in training and direct fights against zombies while trying them out. And experience is a very flimsy resoning on its own. How many times you fought doesn't make you more skilled than a martial atist that spent his life honing his arts but hasn't been in actual battles (his is not the case here, but how many imes did he need to do stuff beyond suckerpunching and how skilled in h2h he enemies he fought would be a beter exemple to give)
And Gnome can only stay conscious due to Han's mana, so she would at the very least become one with the earth if hit.
And golems would just fall apart if touched. Plus he doesn't really spam them yet here, not without prep.
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My reason for bringing up Accelerator was an example of Touma being a skilled enough fighter that he can defeat a seemingly all powerful foe only using one hand and since at 8-C Han only fought seemingly brainless Zombies. Just an exampe of a feat.
The weapons would still be destroyed unless they were actually forged from natural material. Just because they were created doesn't make them natural to IB. If they were simply forged with magic but still made of natural metals and wood they would be fine but if they just poof into existence that wouldn't protect it from erasure. They only get created from Han's power. Anyone else that destroys a monster doesn't get a drop.
We've also seen Touma handle much worse attacks than the multiple mana blasts from multiple directions when he fought Birdway who shot "countless" daggers of water that were placed so fully he had no place to hide or evade so he negated specific ones to create a chain reaction and make a hole for him to evade.
Touma has also experienced fighting golams with little issue.
The weapons would still be destroyed unless they were actually forged from natural material. Just because they were created doesn't make them natural to IB. If they were simply forged with magic but still made of natural metals and wood they would be fine but if they just poof into existence that wouldn't protect it from erasure. They only get created from Han's power. Anyone else that destroys a monster doesn't get a drop.
We've also seen Touma handle much worse attacks than the multiple mana blasts from multiple directions when he fought Birdway who shot "countless" daggers of water that were placed so fully he had no place to hide or evade so he negated specific ones to create a chain reaction and make a hole for him to evade.
Touma has also experienced fighting golams with little issue.
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Han did spend a lot of time training with Sun-Il with martial arts only.
The sword and Spear are made of normal material, they just have Ki in it to boos it up. There wuld be also an argument for he item frops being consifered real, since Gaia wen out of her way to make them actually fit their backstory and be thodands of years old despite having been just created.
Also, unrelated to this, but how well would Han be able to live and survive in to aru verse?
The sword and Spear are made of normal material, they just have Ki in it to boos it up. There wuld be also an argument for he item frops being consifered real, since Gaia wen out of her way to make them actually fit their backstory and be thodands of years old despite having been just created.
Also, unrelated to this, but how well would Han be able to live and survive in to aru verse?
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In Raildex terms I still think the weapons created by Gaia wouldn't change anything since things like Angels were created by God, who in Index would be similar to Gaia in being a creator, are still defeated by IB. As for the training, my only problem with it is the lack of seeing it in action on the battlefield. If there were more examples to pull from I'd be cool with it but there's just more to show from Touma than Han in terms of CQC.
As for Han in To Aru I think he would fair well. He'd definitely be a force to be reconded with though I don't see him coming close to a Magic God, Saint, or Accelerator. It's tough to say though since the concepts of magic in Index can be super complicated. Most big foes from WWIII on I think would be above his level.
As for Han in To Aru I think he would fair well. He'd definitely be a force to be reconded with though I don't see him coming close to a Magic God, Saint, or Accelerator. It's tough to say though since the concepts of magic in Index can be super complicated. Most big foes from WWIII on I think would be above his level.
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I meant less them being created by the planet and mr that they are actuallly like their "lore" says, like how the mace is centuries old despite having been just created. He can't use it if powernulled tough, so meh.
I think his ability to grant others magic and the ability to remove and hen give away others abilities would be his most dangerous trait.
I think his ability to grant others magic and the ability to remove and hen give away others abilities would be his most dangerous trait.
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All we can do is assume, I guess. The principles behind his weapons are just not in-depth enough to make a good call.
I'd be interested in seeing what would happen if he shared a power with an Esper. Would it kill them or work as a loophole? If he did go sharing his power though I think you could expect someone taking him out pretty early to maintain the balance of power between Science and Magic.
I'd be interested in seeing what would happen if he shared a power with an Esper. Would it kill them or work as a loophole? If he did go sharing his power though I think you could expect someone taking him out pretty early to maintain the balance of power between Science and Magic.
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I mean, it doesn't really matter. Unless observe still works, which I doubt, he won't know to need weapons, and so wouldn't take any of them out of his inventory. How would IB react to gamer's body tough? Tecnically, his whole body is supernatural.
I mean, he only parties up with people he likes, but between him being able to tech how to usew spells and magic in a days time, him being able to take others powers and redistribuiting them plus what he already has he would run into trouble eventually, tough he should be able to run from most wth pocket dimensions and all. I think that his power would be more akin to just an outside power amping them, so as long as they don't learn skills tha are supernaturaé it should be alright.
I mean, he only parties up with people he likes, but between him being able to tech how to usew spells and magic in a days time, him being able to take others powers and redistribuiting them plus what he already has he would run into trouble eventually, tough he should be able to run from most wth pocket dimensions and all. I think that his power would be more akin to just an outside power amping them, so as long as they don't learn skills tha are supernaturaé it should be alright.
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Well, you're right. Didn't Touma's best friend whoop his butt? Sure he's trained in martial arts but still, no remarkable strength feats. Not only that, Accelerator lost with the literal power of plot. He's not remarkable in martial arts either. These same zombies can crack concrete iirc and take hits from metal bats without being fazed. They're not normal humans and if anything Han's Gamer's Body had developed his body like the other people in his verse. Strength by natural training.
Even acknowledging that when Risci explained it, there's still the really real weapons that Touma has no way to defend against without at least getting harmed. In fact, he might attempt to negate a normal weapon without knowing and get harmed. Han's not the type to cut off someone's arm so he's likely more on disabling someone.
Daggers of water are very different from explosions. I can imagine that and that's pretty skillful. But Han would basically be carpet bombing him and regardless of the mana being negated, there are still others hitting all around him.
Source context please? Like actual surround him slowly while being bombarded by mana arrows? Also regarding my Gnome talk, nothing's stopping Han from creating a trap afar, and running there to lead Touma at that area. A pitfall isn't really magical so that's gonna be an issue.
Even acknowledging that when Risci explained it, there's still the really real weapons that Touma has no way to defend against without at least getting harmed. In fact, he might attempt to negate a normal weapon without knowing and get harmed. Han's not the type to cut off someone's arm so he's likely more on disabling someone.
Daggers of water are very different from explosions. I can imagine that and that's pretty skillful. But Han would basically be carpet bombing him and regardless of the mana being negated, there are still others hitting all around him.
Source context please? Like actual surround him slowly while being bombarded by mana arrows? Also regarding my Gnome talk, nothing's stopping Han from creating a trap afar, and running there to lead Touma at that area. A pitfall isn't really magical so that's gonna be an issue.
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Han already had a conflict with two abilities iirc. So him learning magic and esper abilities might be something he does and finds a way to circumvent.
Also pretty sure Observe would be all around useful. Especially since Touma was affected by a mind haxx before.
Also pretty sure Observe would be all around useful. Especially since Touma was affected by a mind haxx before.
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Gamer's Body didn't make his body into a second state.
The only functions it has > Makes it so any injury sustained doesn't leave lasting damage > Can heal if he sleeps > Some Gamer powers like Inventory, Tab access, details about powers > Gamer's Mind
But it doesn't neglect the fact that he's holding a sword that's naturally made and he's still pretty fit and knows martial arts. In fact, how would Touma know that punching him even help him negate those powers? His go to would be to attack Han, but while he's contemplating and planning what Han can do, so can Han to Touma.
The only functions it has > Makes it so any injury sustained doesn't leave lasting damage > Can heal if he sleeps > Some Gamer powers like Inventory, Tab access, details about powers > Gamer's Mind
But it doesn't neglect the fact that he's holding a sword that's naturally made and he's still pretty fit and knows martial arts. In fact, how would Touma know that punching him even help him negate those powers? His go to would be to attack Han, but while he's contemplating and planning what Han can do, so can Han to Touma.
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@CoreOfimbalance(COB)
Touma has stated before that Tsuchimakado was a better fighter than him so I don't think that takes away from his own fighting ability. We don't actually know how well trained Tsuchimakado is. We've seen Touma punch people so hard they've flown meters away. That is no weak hit. Plus Han still gains buffs from his ability so the zombies having the ability to destroy concrete doesn't really prove that Han is purely powerful from body training. If he gets punched from Imagine Breaker I don't think the buffs will matter. I'm also aware of Accelerator isn't a martial artist I'm just pointing out that Touma is still a good enough fighter to beat Accelerator only using his right hand.
As for the water daggers it happens in NT Vol 6 Ch 7 Pt 8 :
"A shower of water daggers fell in every direction around Birdway. The umbrella-like silhouette was eaten away from the inside as its entire area was transformed into deadly weapons.
She knew.
She knew that Imagine Breaker could negate any supernatural power but that it was limited to his right wrist and down. And so the optimal answer was not a single absolute attack but a huge mass of normal attacks that overwhelmed him.
He could likely negate one or two of them.
He might be able to evade a third and fourth.
But that would be the end of it.
The thousands, tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands of daggers were packed in so tightly that they did not leave enough space for a human to hide. Everywhere but the location where that boy held his right hand would be skewered again and again.
Or so it should have been.
However…
"…!!"
A high-pitched noise rang out.
Kamijou Touma had raised his right hand above his head and negated one of the many approaching daggers with his fingertips.
But it did not end there.
As the water dagger shattered like glass, its fragments scattered in every direction and struck the other surrounding daggers. This slightly altered their trajectory. This caused a chain reaction that created a blank spot that should not have been there.
It was a phenomenon that could only occur when the daggers were packed in so tightly that no space for a human was left.
All of the water daggers struck the asphalt and sent orange sparks flying throughout the entire area. Only the area one meter around Kamijou had avoided damage.
Precognition.
After so many battles with both scientific espers and occult magicians that they were commonplace for him, Kamijou had obtained that sense that resembled the instinct of an artisan. When he tried to understand it himself, it only threw off its accuracy."
Are you referring to Misiki sending him that message through telepathy as the mid hax?
Also sorry for the lateish reply. Had to hunt the quote down.
Touma has stated before that Tsuchimakado was a better fighter than him so I don't think that takes away from his own fighting ability. We don't actually know how well trained Tsuchimakado is. We've seen Touma punch people so hard they've flown meters away. That is no weak hit. Plus Han still gains buffs from his ability so the zombies having the ability to destroy concrete doesn't really prove that Han is purely powerful from body training. If he gets punched from Imagine Breaker I don't think the buffs will matter. I'm also aware of Accelerator isn't a martial artist I'm just pointing out that Touma is still a good enough fighter to beat Accelerator only using his right hand.
As for the water daggers it happens in NT Vol 6 Ch 7 Pt 8 :
"A shower of water daggers fell in every direction around Birdway. The umbrella-like silhouette was eaten away from the inside as its entire area was transformed into deadly weapons.
She knew.
She knew that Imagine Breaker could negate any supernatural power but that it was limited to his right wrist and down. And so the optimal answer was not a single absolute attack but a huge mass of normal attacks that overwhelmed him.
He could likely negate one or two of them.
He might be able to evade a third and fourth.
But that would be the end of it.
The thousands, tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands of daggers were packed in so tightly that they did not leave enough space for a human to hide. Everywhere but the location where that boy held his right hand would be skewered again and again.
Or so it should have been.
However…
"…!!"
A high-pitched noise rang out.
Kamijou Touma had raised his right hand above his head and negated one of the many approaching daggers with his fingertips.
But it did not end there.
As the water dagger shattered like glass, its fragments scattered in every direction and struck the other surrounding daggers. This slightly altered their trajectory. This caused a chain reaction that created a blank spot that should not have been there.
It was a phenomenon that could only occur when the daggers were packed in so tightly that no space for a human was left.
All of the water daggers struck the asphalt and sent orange sparks flying throughout the entire area. Only the area one meter around Kamijou had avoided damage.
Precognition.
After so many battles with both scientific espers and occult magicians that they were commonplace for him, Kamijou had obtained that sense that resembled the instinct of an artisan. When he tried to understand it himself, it only threw off its accuracy."
Are you referring to Misiki sending him that message through telepathy as the mid hax?
Also sorry for the lateish reply. Had to hunt the quote down.
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I was just making an argument that his actual abilities would cease to work. I wasn't saying that Han actually had his body changed. Just a what if.
Touma should be aware that any powers his opponent uses would be negated so it's not something he would likely think on. Touma had dodged attacks similar to swords and using his martial art while also using a sword may limit what he could do with those martial arts.
Touma should be aware that any powers his opponent uses would be negated so it's not something he would likely think on. Touma had dodged attacks similar to swords and using his martial art while also using a sword may limit what he could do with those martial arts.
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The martial arts was developed with the swords specifically (And the skills kinda boos each other, but that doesn't matter here). There is obviously the problem that the martial art was desined with superhumans in mind.
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