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(Also, only two of these are even on Halibel's profile)
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A Natsu victimWho is Halibel?
The guy Natsu's fighting (and I think people are insisting he will literally never get hit)Who is Halibel?
You've been presented his ability to avoid unavoidable attacks– with his style even having a technique to specifically avoid unavoidable attacks–, extremely accurate precision feats of deconstructing bodyparts without dealing injury, and analytical prediction that renders even invisible danmaku & obscured attacks meaningless, but this is "nothing special" or "don't translate to a fight well"?Okay?
I assume that's not what they were talking about.This is his range justification.
No idea of who you are talking about...The guy Natsu's fighting (and I think people are insisting he will literally never get hit)
Edit: Also, reading intentions for prediction might not even work because Natsu can basically turn his brain off (it's why he has Instinctive Action, he can just stop thinking)
There's no way that's all you were talking aboutI can't see the image, but i pretty sure is Natsu attack reaching the end of a Island from another side, i think. Atleast for the reference list.
80m wide 4km long beamThere's no way that's all you were talking about
Hm, why?There's no way that's all you were talking about
I don't get complaining that a character who is hyped up in-verse and displays such superiority to other characters that the text labels him "A Transcendent Being", with one of the biggest factors being Hitting Him Is Very Hard, and displaying this numerous times through dodging impossible-to-dodge attacks, is argued as hard to hit in cross-verse matches.I mean I'm not sure what I expected. This literally always happens in Re:Zero VS matches, the characters are always "completely untouchable" or something (almost as if the feats themselves are being massively inflated when applied to VS matches or something)
Resisting his one-shot hax is all well and good, but the gap isn't so large that he can withstand having his vitals targeted with kunai, shuriken, or blades.Natsu alone resists Halibel's best forms of offense and has higher AP and durability to begin with,
It can travel kilometres sure, but its AoE is lacking. Halibel can easily dodge to the left, right, slip into the earth, escape into the sky, swap with a log, or neutralize it by striking the deadspot.
None of which will detect Halibel.Analytical Prediction with all 5 senses
This'd work for reading basic intent, but Halibel's prediction isn't so surface-level. The likes of Garfiel and Emilia can fight without thinking, and have instinctive action to the degree that if there is any thought it must be simultaneous with movement, even the slightest gap between the two cresting fatal openenings– and yet don't gain an edge against analytical precog users.the ability to stop thinking entirely to get around prediction based on reading intentions and such
Good luck to him trying to do that when his LS is way worse than Natsu's. He tries grabbing him and not only does he fail, but he gives away his position in doing soHalibel will literally be invisible to Natsu to begin with. He can drag him deep into the ground before he will even know what's happening and render him completely unable to move as he is literally occupying the same space as the stone.
"He can dodge almost anything anyway" yeah you continue to assert this but I've laid out multiple times how Natsu can get hits in. Natsu having to use fire is also just fine, good luck dealing with flames that Power Null and can reach temperatures up to those of lightning (again, 5x hotter than the Sun)He can use substitution and escape jutsu to escape if he's completely surrounded with no gaps and if he's not then he can dodge almost anything anyway. He can reflect any blunt force attack back at Natsu so he has to use fire.
...If it doesn't melt first, which I'm confident it will given the temperatures we're working withAnd his Kunai will easily strike with enough precision to hit Natsu's deadspots and open up massive gaping holes in his soul that can't be regenerated or resisted or anything.
This assumes he already knows about Natsu, which is not at all suggested in the matchup. You're basically giving him knowledge about things the OP didn't give him knowledge aboutThe speed of his thought is such that he can simulate years worth of time in a single instant where Natsu will appear frozen to him and he will use every detail about Natsu to predict his every move based not on his thought but on himself. He has effectively infinite time to think about even the slightest move and consider every possible combination of moves Natsu could pull off before he ever even displays them.
I didn't even bring up Gray simply because I thought Natsu alone would be enough, but with Gray as well, it's pretty much a foregone conclusionGray is also underrated in this fight. He is capable of locking down the battlefield with massive ice walls hundreds of meters to kilometers in length. In fact, if Gray sections off a large portion of the battlefield, trapping Halibel and Natsu inside a massive ice box, Natsu's aoe fire attacks quite literally become unavoidable as there would be nowhere for him to go to avoid the massive fireball-consuming everything inside, Natsu also wouldn't melt the ice as both he and gray are capable of using their ice and fire attacks in tandem by this point in the series without worsening the other.
Natsu's aoe fire attacks quite literally become unavoidable as there would be nowhere for him to go to avoid the massive fireball-consuming everything inside
Unless he figures out what is happening literally instantly, that will not come into play.Good luck to him trying to do that when his LS is way worse than Natsu's. He tries grabbing him and not only does he fail, but he gives away his position in doing so
lol. Lmao even."He can dodge almost anything anyway" yeah you continue to assert this but I've laid out multiple times how Natsu can get hits in.
Both lightning and the heat of the sun are not exactly unheard of in ReZero. Roswaal’s Al Goa are as hot as the sun. The kid version of Halibel's equal counterpart was able to run on boiling magma and fight Arakiya, who uses lightning, fire, and light based attacks and vaporizes nearby buildings just by existing with zero difficulty whatsoever. He simply did not feel the heat. If even his Zori wouldn't burn up with direct contact when he kicked Arakiya, Halibel's kunai, which also power null, are not getting melted.Natsu having to use fire is also just fine, good luck dealing with flames that Power Null and can reach temperatures up to those of lightning (again, 5x hotter than the Sun)
...If it doesn't melt first, which I'm confident it will given the temperatures we're working with
No, he will predict every ability Natsu has before he uses it. That is simply how absurd his prediction is. Hell, I'm only arguing he would know when his opponent is about to use a move, but Theresia can judge a person's abilities with just a glance without even seeing them fight.This assumes he already knows about Natsu, which is not at all suggested in the matchup. You're basically giving him knowledge about things the OP didn't give him knowledge about
He can literally do the equivalent of teleportation with multiple abilities and he can phase through walls. Why could he not dodge that?But nah bro he'd just dodge anyway
Pfffff lol, okay.Voting Natsu and Gray for Clover and Zackra's reasons.
Natsu's been able to melt stone since the beginning of the series, so any attempt to lock him down with it is going to fail horribly, especially if halibel drags him underground himself as Natsu can enflame his entire body so Halibel would lose his hand, grabbing himHalibel will literally be invisible to Natsu to begin with. He can drag him deep into the ground before he will even know what's happening and render him completely unable to move as he is literally occupying the same space as the stone.
Considering just how cold Gray's ice is, which at this point in the series can freeze Natsu's fire just on contact if he tries to go through it, he'd freeze himself solid.He can use substitution and escape jutsu to escape if he's completely surrounded with no gaps and if he's not then he can dodge almost anything anyway.
Natsu himself can reflect gajeel's entire iron dragon roar attack which is easily made up of 1000+ small pieces of metal, so a few kunai aren't an issue for him, even if he did get hit they'd just melt on contact with his body as BOS Natsu could casually melt Glass with just his body heat alone let alone Tartaros Arc Natsu.He can reflect any blunt force attack back at Natsu so he has to use fire. And his Kunai will easily strike with enough precision to hit Natsu's deadspots and open up massive gaping holes in his soul that can't be regenerated or resisted or anything.
Having good cognition speed is good, especially on this level, but speed is still equal here. Every move Halibel takes, Natsu and Gray can make a move. If Halibel attacks, Natsu and Gray can counterattack with AoE. His ranged options get countered via freezing or melting, so melee is his only real option. Getting close would put him in AoE range, so regardless of the positioning, Halibel has issues regardless of where he is.The speed of his thought is such that he can simulate years worth of time in a single instant where Natsu will appear frozen to him and he will use every detail about Natsu to predict his every move based not on his thought but on himself. He has effectively infinite time to think about even the slightest move and consider every possible combination of moves Natsu could pull off before he ever even displays them.
?Pfffff lol, okay.
I assuming you voting them?Anyways, Natsu and Gray take this
Yes, I'm voting for Natsu and GrayI assuming you voting them?
I need comfirmation so i can count the vote.
I do not agree that he would simply lose his hand if he tried but alright, I'll admit that they could probably break free from this. I've been doing that since the beginning anyway.Natsu's been able to melt stone since the beginning of the series, so any attempt to lock him down with it is going to fail horribly, especially if halibel drags him underground himself as Natsu can enflame his entire body so Halibel would lose his hand, grabbing him
Every ice uuser in ReZero and their mother (literally in the case of Emilia and Fortuna) can generate absolute zero temperatures and freeze time.Considering just how cold Gray's ice is, which at this point in the series can freeze Natsu's fire just on contact if he tries to go through it, he'd freeze himself solid.
They aren't just normal metal Kunai they are quite literally a part of Halibel's body since they're infused with parts of it. But any weapon a ReZero character uses has greater durability and resistance to extreme temperatures than they do anyway. His Kunai will also just powernull their way through his fire anyway, just as they did Jiwald.Natsu himself can reflect gajeel's entire iron dragon roar attack which is easily made up of 1000+ small pieces of metal, so a few kunai aren't an issue for him, even if he did get hit they'd just melt on contact with his body as BOS Natsu could casually melt Glass with just his body heat alone let alone Tartaros Arc Natsu.
This goes without saying but there's still an advantage to seeing everything in super slow motion, especially with such potent evasive abilities. There simply isn't a reality where Halibel gets hit while he has plenty of opportunities to land a hit.Having good cognition speed is good, especially on this level, but speed is still equal here. Every move Halibel takes, Natsu and Gray can make a move.
Let's not with the accusations, because the thing about accusations is that they can always go both ways, and it just ends with no one being happyI think Zackra's reasoning about trapping Halibel in ice walls is quite literally ignoring what Halibel can do just to say Natsu and Gray win.
No, that's what he is doing, intentional or not. It's not an accusation, it's an observation. He needs to actually engage with what Halibel can do and talk about what Natsu and Gray can do to counter it.Let's not with the accusations, because the thing about accusations is that they can always go both ways, and it just ends with no one being happy
Y'know what you're right. I shouldn't have done that. But it is frustrating when we've mentioned what Halibel can do dozens of times and it is outright ignored.You said he's doing this because he wants to see Natsu and Gray win. That's a clear accusation. I'm not asking you to double down
I mean I get it, I've felt like that as well in this thread (on the Natsu and Gray side, of course), but the moment this starts it just doesn't stop. Happens to the best of usY'know what you're right. I shouldn't have done that. But it is frustrating when we've mentioned what Halibel can do dozens of times and it is outright ignored.
It wasn't my intention to ignore the abilities, as I do have reasoning, I just got off track and forgot to mention it.Y'know what you're right. I shouldn't have done that. But it is frustrating when we've mentioned what Halibel can do dozens of times and it is outright ignored.
Roswaal’s Al Goa are as hot as the sun
Even if that was true (Which is not, but I glady be proven wrong) Halibel resistance don't cover any of that, because a content revision need to happen to get this feats accepted as a resistance.Every ice uuser in ReZero and their mother (literally in the case of Emilia and Fortuna) can generate absolute zero temperatures and freeze time.
Yeah, I'm seriously sorry I made that accusation. I really shouldn't have done that.It wasn't my intention to ignore the abilities, as I do have reasoning, I just got off track and forgot to mention it.
This is good, but it's not just teleportation. He will be completely invisible and impossible to sense for them. His stealth abilities are layered. They would have to blindly attack the area around and somehow hit him while he can teleport, dive through the ground and other solid objects, practically fly with his aerial mobility, and much more importantly dodge the rain.Gray has fought and beaten mest with relative ease despite the fact he has instant teleportation magic. He also was able to stop racer from running past him using ice make rampart (a gaint ice wall), Racer himself has time slow magic so Gray being able to stop halibel from escaping is very possible imo.
I took a look at the Roswaal feat again, and I will admit it isn't the most direct comparison. It was definitely my weakest point there, but even so, for someone weaker than Halibel to not even feel anything when directly striking a being that vaporizes a chunk of a city just by existing with his bare hands, it's clear his heat resistance is extremely high. ReZero characters fighting with lightning is undeniable, however. As are absolute zero temperatures. If you think this isn't enough to resist being near them, then this becomes a boring stomp match. At least if he resists it it isn't technically a stomp.Even if that was true (Which is not, but I glady be proven wrong) Halibel resistance don't cover any of that, because a content revision need to happen to get this feats accepted as a resistance.