Nasuverse Discussion Board 7

[ZERO7772]

Oh the Servants also get boost depends on where they are summoned right?

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

Ye

 

[ZERO7772]

How good is Karna btw? I see A LOT of hype surrounding him, is he Top tier servant for example? some people even compare him to Gill

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

He is on the "If you summon him and somehow lose the Grail War something is legitimately wrong with you" tier. Also Karna is on par with Gil according to CCC.

 

[Schnee_One]

Legit I'm actually curious about who wins that.

 

[ZERO7772]

You mean Gill vs Karna?

From what I saw in Apocrypha Karna was struggling with other events such as Sigrfired and Vlad III

 

[Sage_God_Slayer]

Can't really say it's even the mage's fault, Karna is a mana hog like other Top tiers not named Gil cause GoB is cost effective, but he's by far one of the worst in mana consumption. The level of magical circuits and quantity you'll need to even use Karna efficiently is pretty high. Though his skill with the spear alone should allow him to beat most Servants in CQC.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

@Zero 50/50 if Karna gets Shirou Kotomine in Vol 5 as Master or if the Moon Cell summons him. This is stated somewhere in Extella as well IIRC.

Normal Karna loses due to horrible mana consumption. He can't even maintain Mana Burst for more than 10 sec if he is wearing his armor without risking the death of his master.

He was trying not to kill his master against Vlad. He would have won if he fired Brahmastra Kundala. Siegfried was getting beaten by him as well. Sieg won because Karna accepted the condition that he had to defeat him before his transformation ended, which forced him to use Vasavi to try to end the fight, but it was blocked because Achilles gave Astolfo his world shield.

 

[Sage_God_Slayer]

You mean Gill vs Karna?
From what I saw in Apocrypha Karna was struggling with other events such as Sigrfired and Vlad III

Vlad had multiple boosts and Karna would have still one shot him if he had used Brahmastra. He outskilled Siegfried in their fight and later against Sieg he would have won if Astolfo didn't save Sieg, if Karna had not used Vasavi Shakti and fought CQC and use Brahmastra Kundala instead to waste the transformation's time and if Sieg didn't have the ability to spam Balmung due to Fran's skill(which when buffed by the CS was still losing to VS).

The only one in Apo that has a legit claim to fight Karna was Achilles.

 

[ZERO7772]

>Watching Apocrypha

Man Mordred is really different than Arturia she act savage and even bully some fodders and she even plays dirty sometimes lel

 

[Sage_God_Slayer]

You're currently watching Apo?

If so then RIP. Disregard the spoilers we posted then.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Achilles would still lose to Karna because his invincinility would get bypassed. Meanwhile Achilles can't do shit to Karna due to his armor. His only chance would be pulling Karna into the duel field, then we have a fair fight.

 

[Sage_God_Slayer]

Pretty much. Another scenario would be to rack up speed on his chariot and use AK to bash Karna forcing him to use VS and then both AK and K&K become non factors leaving Achilles with his other NPs and Karna with Brahmastra but lower defenses.

 

[Aizenishere]

@Ram

Is it really 50/50 though if it's CCC Gil vs Karna? Enkidu plus EA right off the bat plus the knowledge granted by SNI makes it seem pretty... y'know.

Plus I believe the last time the matchup was brought up it was 60/40 or 70/30 to Gil

 

[Reppuzan]

In Karna's sidestory in Extella, he single-handedly wiped out two teams of Servants, including Gil, Altera, Jeanne, Cu Chulainn, and Gawain.

And this is while he's holding back Vasavi Shakti so he could save it for Sefar.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

I'm assuming Gil doesn't do that off the bat. Because IIRC he wouldn't even do that against Alter Egos unless they have Ishtar as a base component.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ram

He's willing to spam it on behalf of his Master by the end-game of CCC, since he uses it as a casual attack available to the player after a certain point.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

@Reppu I know but he still wouldn't use it as his first move especially in combination with Enkidu unless he was 100% serious.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Even if we ignore the fact that Karna and Gil already fought in CCC and Gil didn't do that, i'm getting really tired of people constantly misinterpreting CCC Gil. "Less arrogant because he actually likes his master" does not translate to "bloodlusted 100% of the time", like some people here seem to think.

 

[Reppuzan]

@NEH

True, but he's still more willing to use Ea than he would be normally.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

@Aizen I was under the assumption that he would use Ea right off the bat at the time, which isn't the case. Karna with inexhaustible amount of magical energy vs CCC Gil should be a 50/50.

 

[Aizenishere]

@Ram

Ahh alright. Sounds fair. And like a matchup I'd love to watch.

But then with all that's been said. In a 100% Serious bloodlusted match who wins and what would the odds be?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

In a bloodlusted match Gil would win 70/30, maybe even 80/20.

 

[ZERO7772]

So is there a reason why Ruler Calss didn't exist in F\SN universe? I would assume Nasu just thought of this whole thing later but did you give excuses for why they didn't exist in F\SN and F\Z ?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

It does exist in F/SN and F/Z though? It just wasn't summoned because the Grail was corrupted.

 

[Aizenishere]

I was hoping someone could explain something real quick to me.

If EA is the pinnacle of all NPs used by servants why doesn't it auto qualify as 4-B? I get the 4-Bs are on a different level of existence or something of the sort but they are "Servants" non the less and if there's a 4-B rating established because of a NP shouldn't EA scale?

EDIT: Or rather, why doesn't EA scale?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Aizen

I don't get why you're constantly writing "EA" instead of "Ea". It looks like you're talking about Electronic Arts.

As for the scaling issues, I'm honestly not sure, since there have been a lot of Anti-World Noble Phantasms since the series' first release.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

It should probably scale anyway as a nation building authority. With a connection to Ea(the god) who has the same description as the Sun Gods as in he doesn't come from the planet.


But it's probably better to wait for more information.

 

[Aizenishere]

@Repp

That's probably cuz I've spent the last few weeks talking about EA (yes Electronic Arts) with my cousin when I was taking a small break from the wiki and the transition back has me ****** up.

Now if I was doing this before that time period I clearly have a problem

@Ram

I understand in that regard we must wait but shouldn't it scale to Kiara regardless? Since her NP is what gifted her the 4-B and Ea (I'm getting the hang of it Repp) again " is the most powerful NP contained in the GoB and the pinnacle of all those used by Servants" Which I believe includes the Beast Servants but if it doesn't please correct me.

EDIT: I have no problem waiting for more info regardless but I figured I'd throw this out there since it is somewhat puzzling me

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

I don't think it includes beasts. CCC matrix says that it's considered at the top of Noble Phantasms used by Servants. Beasts were referred to as enemy of mankind/evil of man in CCC. So the fact that they made a distinction seems to imply that Beasts are not included.

 

[Aizenishere]

Ahh ok. One last question then. Why is the likes of Vasavi Shakti not 4-B against Gods and only given the "likely higher" rating. It killed a 4-B so should be 4-B no?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

It killed Base Sefar not Sefar that has powered up until she becomes a threat to Amaterasu. Vasavi can kill Gods and Gods>>Divine Spirits=Base Sefar hence likely higher.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It cab kill Gods due to its Anti-Divine nature and mortality hax, not its AP I believe

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Dunno Anti-Divine rating is due to its sheer power which gets contradicted by one statement of having powerful anti god performance... Mortality Hax might not exist because it's really ambiguous in all materials if it's just stronk beamu or conceptual one hit weapon.

 

[Aizenishere]

So it's likely higher because we haven't seen it kill an actual God yet. Kinda like how Ea functions under the same principle as Slash emperor but is still only "likely higher" rather than the 4-B rating.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Yo guys, does the anime version of Fate/Apocrypha(?) at least give some viewer, working better if they're a fan of the Nasuverse, some idea as to what goes on in that particular series? Especially towards that of Vol 5 or what do you all think?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

They don't really bother explaining anything, so it might make you more confused.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Oooh.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Well,speaking of Karna vs Gil,this already discussed in any TYPE-MOON community anytime,so its kinda old to me but still "omoshiroi" to discuss.For best now we must waiting for Nasu handled Karna vs Gil scenario.

@ZERO

Well,there's anybody aside Karna that gets hyped to fight Gil :

-Ozymandias

-Quetzacoatl

-Solomon

-Scathach

-3rd tail Tamamo no Mae

-Arjuna

-Rama

-Lancer Artoria

-Archer Heracles

-Achilles

Rest like Siegfried and Tesla are just zasshu in Gil and VS debaters.

But there is servant that ge hyped but also get overwanked so much : NOBUNAGA ODA!!

Nobu wank is really annoying thats didn't take seriously,her 2nd NP is doubl edge sword that she will get burned to hell too,but people didn't care about this fact,and she gets a treatment "OMG NOBU SOLOES ALL DIVINE SERVANT PLZ NERF".

There is also Alcides,he just an alter version of Herc,gets overwanked too.Alcides is IMO most hated Servant aside Sieg (even he have cool NP like King order).

 

[Promestein]

Unrelated but this is pretty great.