Nasuverse Discussion Board 29

[BakiHanma18]

Infinitely above baseline 2-A sounds reasonable. Still 2-A, but accurately portrays Abi's hax power

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

@Upgrade

2-A is countably infinite numbers of timelines, so he is the very same as everyone else, who scale to Moon Cell erasing all of them if it wasn't stopped.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Mooncell is considered baseline For now

But Yog is above that

Though doesn't it scale? Yog exist in all dimensions, and in all possibilities. He is tied to all possible things. The one-in-all, and the All-in-One

Adjancent worlds, and Parallel worlds are different. Think of it like this.

There is a bubble. This bubble/Sphere is a membrane. This Membrane holds "Timelines" a "Countlessly many timelines" that get culled off occasionally. However this "Membrane" has others next to it, and infinite set of them

Think of Fate Stay night being 1 Membrane, and the different many routes being multiple timelines that keep branching but only inside of that 1 bubble.

While Tsukihime is its own membrane/bubble/sphere with its very own set of unqiue branching timelines with its own unqiue bubble.

The 2 are different and don't mix. Their kept separated

Those might be terrible examples, but it was off the top of my head

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

When was Yog ever above the Moon Cell?

... No. That's not a thing. That has never been a thing. There are not different groups of countably infinite timelines existing alongside one another. There is only the tree of time with all of the timelines, the ones closest to the trunk that are the most similar, and the ones farther away that get more and more different, and ultimately the ones the furthest away, which are the ones culled if humanity doesn't exist, is too idyllic or too hellish for choice to ever bring change.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Infinitely above baseline 2-A sounds reasonable. Still 2-A, but accurately portrays Abi's hax power

This is the exact thing I am talking about. Do we understand what 2-A is? Do we understand what it constitutes?

Why the hell are we just rolling with "oh yes that must be totally a thing" without actually looking at the context and seeing if this is the case? It feels too much like things are being taken at face value and people are just throwing "Yes" at it. You wouldn't even get High 2-A taking these things at face value or directly either.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

That would also mean Divine Spirits are higher dimensional, which would mean full Gods are also higher dimensional as they are much stronger, but they are never depicted in such a way.

When were divine spirits stated to be higher dimensional? They reside in a higher dimension of course, but I can't recall of anyone other than Tiamat being outright stated as higher dimensional

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Tiamat is not a special goddess, she's a goddess, so it would scale to other mesopotamian gods.

How is residing in a higher dimension not being higher dimensional...?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Still 2-A at best. As Lancelot said though, Lugh is a materialised soul, something that is always stated to be higher dimensional and which I've seen several people within the low 1-C supporters say is an axis of movement, but lugh is certainly not tier 2 or 1 despite being a materisaled "higher dimensional" object. What Nasu calls higher dimensions are rarely an infinite jump in power

Why would a materialized soul be low 1-C? If anyone has said so that is currently outdated info, as Nasu doesn't number his dimensional axes, so its probably only Low 2-C outside of further context. And if I recall correctly, arent the souls only able to interact with the normal world via a partial intersection? While they would be higher dimensional after being relieved of their body, I doubt a materialized soul could properly interfere in the lower world with their full being. But on the other hand, it is still treated to contain an infinite amount of energy from a lower dimensional perspective. The reason Nasu dimensions seem to rarely jump in power is because, in most cases, they only reside in a higher dimension, and are not a proper higher dimensional structure in and of themselves

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Tiamat is not a special goddess, she's a goddess, so it would scale to other mesopotamian gods.
How is residing in a higher dimension not being higher dimensional...?

There is characters in fiction who can access higher dimensional settings and then just rest there, live there, or do something there. A lower dimensional character going into a higher dimensional setting doesn't mean their dimensional value rises to match the setting they just entered. It just shows they have some sort of super potent portal creation, or teleportaiton. something like that.

Existing in a Higher dimensional setting =/= being a higher dimensional being

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Tiamat is not a special goddess, she's a goddess, so it would scale to other mesopotamian gods.
How is residing in a higher dimension not being higher dimensional...?

She's a beast of humanity, which is probably superior to incomplete beasts anyway, that took the whole Mesopotamian Pantheon to kill, last I checked. Unless you wanna claim that all goddesses are 2-A (baring the gorgons, obviously) but that's not a claim I'm currently willing to make.

The same way that 10-A beings can existed in High 1-A realms in lovecraft without being High 1-A, a 2D structure can still reside in 3D space, random materium pilots can exist in 1-B warp space without being 1-B in 40k, Saber can exist within Avalon without scaling to its dimensionality, or Thanos can visit TOAA's heaven without being even High 1-B. Just because you can exist in a realm, does not mean you have to exist in the proper state of being to scale to its tier. The only exception is when a cosmology is like I/O, where you have to be on that dimensional level just to exist there.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

"Only low 2-C out of context". Which he still isn't. Things called higher dimensional are still not utterly superior to reality or anything silly like that.

@Upgrade Then that's not a higher dimension in the sense needed for an upgrade. That's an area of reality with a completely different axis of movement and transcendental to normal reality, how can you exist there?

I am not sure what all of you are arguing anymore or what are even your points.

And as far as I am aware, no, a 2-D structure can't exist in 3-D. A paper isn't a 2-D structure, it has length, width and height even if one of these is likely immensely small. Same with a drawing, the particles of charcoal or ink aren't laking one entire dimension. You can't even actually interact with a real 2-D structure.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

@Upgrade Then that's not a higher dimension in the sense needed for an upgrade. That's an area of reality with a completely different axis of movement and transcendental to normal reality, how can you exist there?

"The same way that 10-A beings can existed in High 1-A realms in lovecraft without being High 1-A, a 2D structure can still reside in 3D space, random materium pilots can exist in 1-B warp space without being 1-B in 40k, Saber can exist within Avalon without scaling to its dimensionality, or Thanos can visit TOAA's heaven without being even High 1-B. Just because you can exist in a realm, does not mean you have to exist in the proper state of being to scale to its tier. The only exception is when a cosmology is like I/O, where you have to be on that dimensional level just to exist there. " - Iapitus The Impaler [1]

its ficition, its all about context and how the series represents it to be.

I've seen a lot of fictions have this kind of trope of lower D-characters suddenly able to move into a Higher D-space without becoming higher D-themsleves

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

It being fiction allows nonsensical things like that to happen, it doesn't allow me or you to just say "they totally are not higher dimensional while existing in a higher dimensional plane". That needs proof.

And I have to wonder if that was actually 10-B Carter and not 1-A Carter, as in his Archetypal self that is part of Yog-Sothoth.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I mean, last I checked the burden of proof falls on those trying to prove the positive, after all, its impossible to prove a negative. I do have some proof tho, shit like The Moon Cell constructs its protective shield through the 8th dimension, since it is only described as cutting though a higher dimension, not actually being 8th dimensional, which was actually one of the original arguments to claim that Nasu dimensions work in a more """realistic manor""" but that's another story we can leave for later lol. (Long story short, the moon cell ain't scaling in AP). Also, just letting you know, I'm pretty sure "cutting" through higher dimensions is the default state unless proven otherwise anyway. This is why I think a lot of the shit currently considered higher D ain't gonna be it outside of range lol

Yeah, that was actually 1-A Carter, since the "mortal" Carter was described as observing it from the outside and then (this latter part I'm a bit more fuzzy on) tapping into it to take on some of his alternate selves.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

A being residing in a higher dimension, with one of his members being even called higher dimensional, would need to be proven as higher dimensional... You must be actually joking.

But my point remains the same, higher dimensions in Nasuverse so far haven't behaved anything liek the ones needed for the ratings. And what I have seen for this so called High 2-A/Low 1-C Outer Gods stuff is worthless.

I don't even know where that stuff about Tsukihime and Fate being in entirely separate areas each with infinite, diverging universes came from. That's not a thing, jesus.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

"Only low 2-C out of context". Which he still isn't. Things called higher dimensional are still not utterly superior to reality or anything silly like that.

Huh... why? Nasu doesn't number his higher dimensions, so just because something works on "higher" dimensions that is gonna be anything but 4D or 1D + the 3D default reality since I have no idea why you would think they transcend Time, Alternate realities, any of the imaginary number axes, etc. Without further context. This is honestly one of the root misunderstandings that had them be considered invalid anyway

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I have no honest clue what are you talking about anymore. You are just being confusing.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I don't even know where that stuff about Tsukihime and Fate being in entirely separate areas each with infinite, diverging universes came from. That's not a thing, jesus.

the termological differences between adjacent worlds, and parralel worlds which also makes an appearence in salem. which are also considered adjacent and in the same setence they were made distinctly different from parallel worlds

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

They aren't literally divided into infinite amount of realms with infinite amounts of universes each. Otherwise timelines wouldn't be described as one big tree. Adjacent is just a synonym.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Ok, let me put it this way, Tiamat is described as being 4th dimensional, but she works on an imaginary axis, not a time axis or anything, yet in another case, Mash is described as moving along another unnamed axis of time, which is again regarded as a 4th dimension (unless you feel like giving Mash a 5D+ axis of movement for her defensive axis of movement but that's on you my guy, I'm not sure I would have enough grounding to support that, personally). Same with the soul shit, and all the different spiritron dimensions. We have no grounding to assume any of these unnumbered dimensions are above eachother, nor if we even did assume any of them were above eachother, what would transcend which other one, if that makes any sense at all. I think the only one we have explicit notice that it transcends another is a "5th" axis for parallel worlds which kinda naturally transcends the axis of time, but even most dimensional travelers don't have access to the time axis of movement other than maybe the demon god pillars. I hope this clears things up at all, I know this I really confusing due to an albeit understandable quirt of Nasu's writing.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Infinitely above baseline 2-A sounds reasonable. Still 2-A, but accurately portrays Abi's hax power

This is the exact thing I am talking about. Do we understand what 2-A is? Do we understand what it constitutes?
Why the hell are we just rolling with "oh yes that must be totally a thing" without actually looking at the context and seeing if this is the case? It feels too much like things are being taken at face value and people are just throwing "Yes" at it. You wouldn't even get High 2-A taking these things at face value or directly either.

Characters who are capable of affecting, creating and/or destroying a countably infinite number of spatio-temporally isolated universes.

https://i.imgur.com/TFuTUt3.jpg

So, uh...

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

What happened to "Keep the shitstorm at the CRT"?

 

[AshenCrow777]

Yall should do a CRT instead of discussing it here.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Characters who are capable of affecting, creating and/or destroying a countably infinite number of spatio-temporally isolated universes.

https://i.imgur.com/TFuTUt3.jpg

So, uh...

So, uh... he's still baseline 2-A, as that's the minimum required to be 2-A.

I would prefer calling very bad arguments for High 2-A and Low 1-C bad from the start to save ourselves a CRT that would just take time.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Characters who are capable of affecting, creating and/or destroying a countably infinite number of spatio-temporally isolated universes.

https://i.imgur.com/TFuTUt3.jpg

So, uh...

So, uh... he's still baseline 2-A, as that's the minimum required to be 2-A.
I would prefer calling very bad arguments for High 2-A and Low 1-C bad from the start to save ourselves a CRT that would just take time.

Even so, it is by all accounts irrefutable that Abi is still at least 2-A

Edit: instead of wasting your time singling me out as someone who lacks knowledge of a definition clearly outlined on the site, I'd be more concerned with defending the veracity of your claims, as it would seem that both @Iaptius and @TheUpgrade disagree

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

If that's him tied to the whole Nasuverse other than obviously Akasha and maybe the Alien God he would be at least infinitely above baseline for 2-A (for the at least one extra possibly a whole other infinite multiverse, but that's a bit more questionable), but he may very well be higher as well depending on what else we scale it to like Imaginary numbers space axes, and spiritron dimensions, but of course it is possible however unlikely that he is omnipresent across these spaces but not a full form structure in them, but that would be a big ass structure, and some hell of an immortality, if he didn't outright scale lmao.

There is also the small extra that KnK was possibly implied to have an infinite amount of futures coming off of it. In addition, there is also Musashi and Kojiro, but let's not open that can of worms right now.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

How is he infinitely above baseline by being able to affect infinite universes, when being able to affect infinite universes is baseline 2-A...?

I don't follow this logic, what even is going on?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

What i said above, but I think we posted at the same time

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

We didn't. I fail to see what spiritron dimensions or imaginary space have to do in any of this.

What the heck even are spiritron dimensions?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

i can defend the whole Infinity above baseline 2-A, but i rather not do it here, and i would need time to do it. (Busy with irl stuff currently, and doing another verse) Also a bit demotivated of doing it because of the flak it must recieve simply because "2-A"

 

[BakiHanma18]

i can defend the whole Infinity above baseline 2-A, but i rather not do it here, and i would need time to do it. (Busy with irl stuff currently)

Well, there's gunna be a content revision, so you can drop your stuff there

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Edit: instead of wasting your time singling me out as someone who lacks knowledge of a definition clearly outlined on the site, I'd be more concerned with defending the veracity of your claims, as it would seem that both @Iaptius and @TheUpgrade disagree

I am not singling you out on anything, I am simply asking how you get infinitely above baseline by doing what gets you to baseline? Explaining seems to be impossible for some reason though.

Yeah, yet they have nothing as far as I've seen. I doubt that matters.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Well, if he is one with everything in the Nasuverse except the obvious exceptions like Akasha and Possibly The Alien God, he would be likely one with the Moon Cell. The Moon Cell has at least another multiverse in it, and also proves the existence of at least 4 or 5 other spiritron dimensions, which it simulated in addition (presumably, unless we think they didnt have the standard usual dimensions lol) to the standard Length, Width, and Height.

Spiritron dimensions are the "soul" dimensional axes that they "fold" outward into when they don't have their bodies. The Moon Cell also uses these same spiritron particles and dimensions for its simulations and internal information construction (basically like, The Matrix like area lol). Its also why mages upload their soul into it to hack it n shit lol.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Infinitely above baseline 2-A sounds reasonable. Still 2-A, but accurately portrays Abi's hax power

This is the exact thing I am talking about. Do we understand what 2-A is? Do we understand what it constitutes?
Why the hell are we just rolling with "oh yes that must be totally a thing" without actually looking at the context and seeing if this is the case? It feels too much like things are being taken at face value and people are just throwing "Yes" at it. You wouldn't even get High 2-A taking these things at face value or directly either.

First, this is singling out, using me as an example for your point. Second, yes, it's quite obvious what 2-A constitutes, is very clearly defined and outline on the site. Third, I'm not "just rolling with it", the arguments for, particularly Iapitus's arguments, are the most sound reasoning I've seen on the matter

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

This escalated quickly

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

@Iap Still doesn't sound like enough at all, but will have to see whenever this CRT is apparently made. Feels like there is a lot of information I am missing.

@Baki

Not... really. I am not singling you out, I am talking about the statement in question. Hence the quote instead of just saying your name.

That's sound? Ugh this wiki I swear...

I am gonna go out, this is getting on my nerves and feels ridiculous.

 

[BakiHanma18]

@Baki
Not... really. I am not singling you out, I am talking about the statement in question. Hence the quote instead of just saying your name.

That's sound? Ugh this wiki I swear...

I am gonna go out, this is getting on my nerves and feels ridiculous.

No, you quoted my comment and passive aggressively ranted about "people" rolling with infinitely above baseline and questioning if "we" even knew what 2-A constituted. There clearly context to imply that I'm behaving like some kind of yes man. I'm here to discuss the validity of infinitely above baseline 2-A Abi, not agree to whatever sounds nicer. So far I've seen Iapitus thoroughly explain why Abi scale above Moon Cell and everything save for Alien God and Akasha, so yes, so far it's sound

Thats your prerogative, I hope you'll be more willing to communicate appropriately upon your return

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

No, more like everyone is just rolling with whatever comes and taking how it's explained at face value. If you think that was aimed at you specifically, that is your problem. And there was nothing passive aggressive about that, I state very clearly and plainly I believe people are just rolling into agreeing with things without giving it more of a thought.

Two countably infinite structures constituting infinitely above baseline. And you ask why I question if people know what they are agreeing to.

 

[BakiHanma18]

No, more like everyone is just rolling with whatever comes and taking how it's explained at face value. If you think that was aimed at you specifically, that is your problem. And there was nothing passive aggressive about that, I state very clearly and plainly I believe people are just rolling into agreeing with things without giving it more of a thought.
Two countably infinite structures constituting infinitely above baseline. And you ask why I question if people know what they are agreeing to.

It also happens to be your problem if you plan to actually effectively communicate any point on the matter, but okay. By people, who would you be referring to? Perhaps the commentor you quote in the very post at the very least?

"Characters who are capable of affecting, creating and/or destroying a countably infinite number of spatio-temporally isolated universes."

And I quote, "a countably infinite". "A" in this instance referring to 1. And that's just with Moon Cell, not even including all the spiritron dimensions, of which there are at least 4

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Your lack of ability to understand my meaning is not my business, so there's nothing I can do about it. That is, funnily, still not singling you out.

So... if you destroy 2 planets, you are infinitely above the baseline to destroy one planet? Uh huh.

I will love to see in the CRT where this spiritron dimension stuff even comes from.