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Narutoverse Scaling: Kazekage Rescue Mission - Pain's Assault arcs
- Thread starter KingTempest
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2.5 years of training.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Kakashi get scared of Narutos power only after he manifested KN1/KN2? He seemed on par with KN0 Naruto on many occasions. Like against Itachi Naruto was in KN0 and Kakashi was in base. Same with Deidara. Same with Sasori in the cave. KN0 Naruto is kinda treated like a fodder in early Shippuden.
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Because him training doesnt mean anything besides him presumably being superior to his regular base form, whether his training has made him superior to kn1 or any other level depends on other evidence.
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What is the exact databook statement tho? It could very well just be talking about him being superior to himself, rather than reffering to being superior to himself+kurama chakra.
About the confidence thing, personally i dont quite like using similar stuff as arguments, but to not leave it on that, what is to say he wasnt taking account KN1 or KN0 into mind when he talked about bringing back Sasuke, he was ready to use it in the past and used it against Oro just as well. So while sure there is some evidence with that its pretty subjective, and id rather scale from concrete "things" as usually unclear scalings tend to be pretty hard and repetative to argue, as neither side can either confirm their own or debunk the opposing claim.
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I would like to point out that KN1 Naruto being High 7-C is dependent on KN0 being superior to Kakashi, who was 7-C.
The problem is that Kakashi might not be 7-C anymore, which means that KN1's rating might change.
The problem is that Kakashi might not be 7-C anymore, which means that KN1's rating might change.
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Huh, that's weird. I don't get the notification from being @ed.
Right, BoS Naruto considered himself strong enough to beat Sasuke and bring him back to the village (in the databook). But we don't really know if he's talking about doing it in base form or with the help of Kurama.
Right, BoS Naruto considered himself strong enough to beat Sasuke and bring him back to the village (in the databook). But we don't really know if he's talking about doing it in base form or with the help of Kurama.
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Narrative Intent is a thing.
> what is to say he wasn't taking account KN1 or KN0 into mind when he talked about bringing back Sasuke
because that would go against the Internal Logic of Naruto's mindset, Early Shippuden Naruto doesnt want to use Kurama and never intends to, it happens because his consumed by anger.
The entire point of training between part 1 and Part 2 is to allow him to get strong enough to save Sasuke ( remember the whole ill stay a fool my entire life). Which is why when he returns his super confident about it, it's only until he actually meets Sasuke and sees how more powerful Sasuke is that he becomes Insecure about his strength, which pushes him to train even harder and master the FRS.
There's also literally nobody but Naruto who knows Part 1 Sasuke's power so he is the most accurate source for this kind of thing.
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Wait isn't jumping Tiers based off scaling chain (I assume) not allowed?
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It is but i personally dont like it as an argument.
He does also say he will bring Sasuke back no matter what, and he already used the kyuubi chakra up to this point for less meaningful things (for him personally), as such we cannot be completely sure and for same reason i dont agree with the scaling.
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isnt part 1 Kakashi 8-A?
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that isn't really an argument though, we cant cherry-pick when or when not to use Narrative context.
> He does also say he will bring Sasuke back no matter what, and he already used the kyuubi chakra up to this point for less meaningful things (for him personally
What things?
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What?
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Current Kakashi ratings for part 1.
Attack Potency: Town level (Superior to Genma Shiranui and Raidou, who were able to fight on par with Jirobo and the rest of Sound Four in their Cursed Mark-II states, which are this powerful. Stronger than Part 1 Sasuke even after his power-ups, and thus should be on this level. Scales to other powerful Jōnin like Asuma and Gai), higher with Raikiri (Casually one-shotted Zabuza Momochi, who could fight him on even grounds)
Attack Potency: Town level (Superior to Genma Shiranui and Raidou, who were able to fight on par with Jirobo and the rest of Sound Four in their Cursed Mark-II states, which are this powerful. Stronger than Part 1 Sasuke even after his power-ups, and thus should be on this level. Scales to other powerful Jōnin like Asuma and Gai), higher with Raikiri (Casually one-shotted Zabuza Momochi, who could fight him on even grounds)
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It isnt, i myself would never use it, but what would be the exact argument here tho? Because the databook says he is superior there is more implication its reffering to everything rather than just his base? I myself rather see it as him being superior to whatever he himself was.
I would argue that beating Neji is less relevant to him than bringing Sasuke back, as an example.
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are you referring to the part 1 fight?
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It hasn't been decided yet. That would depend on what calc the "Elite Jonin" will scale to, which we didn't discuss yet.
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Yes, if its only part 2 then well, he only used it vs Oro up to this point iirc.
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So now we have to revise part one again?
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I thought the Jonin scaled above the Sound 4 and that's how we determine their Part 1 ratings?
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He Used it against Orochimaru because his anger overwhelmed him, I referenced this in my first post.
do you think Naruto intended to get angry to the point he later went four tails and hurt his friend Sakura lol.
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Yea true, i was just mentioning it as in that it happened, rather than to support my argument.
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fair enough
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Okay, so all Jonin would be 8-A then?
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That would be generalizing the strength of the average Jonin. Kakashi definitely scales above them though, since they all were hesitant to fight him.
4 Cursed Seal State 2 kids fought 2 average strength Jonins, these same kids matched or scaled above the Sasuke retrieval squad. Not including the fact that base sick Kimimaro, who should be weaker than post timeskip Jonins, was handling KN0 Naruto.
I'd request for the Kimimaro current rating explanation to be removed as well, as it says "Stronger than the combined force of the Sound Four" which iirc was anime only.
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Why though?
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Base Kimimaro had an issue w/ drunken fist Lee. Naruto says Kakashi's taijutsu is greater than Lee's, and Naruto has seen Lee pre injury w/ gates.
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Drunken Lee taijutsu>Normal lee's taijutsu though (in that context) . the whole point of it is that it's so unpredictable
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Yeah, Kakashi being above Lee I agree with 1000%. But wasn't Kimimaro more or less just caught off guard by Lee's style? He bounced back soon enough, and was going to kill Lee if not for Gaara saving him iirc.
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Naruto never has seen Drunk Lee and isn't regular Lee anyway. Drunk Lee was about to be killed when Kimimaro decided to use bones from his body against him, Kimimaro vs KN0 was pure taijutsu with two bone blades.
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Over 5th Gate Lee though? First gate is 5x stronger. now add 4 more gates, and Naruto has seen that. Strong fist and drunken fist Lee have the same AP, just different fighting styles.
Naruto was describing the attributes of Kakashi. Naruto sees Kiba's sense of smell in action (fought him, worked beside him), Shikamaru's brain (worked beside him, seen him fight), Sasuke's sharingan (fought him, seen him fight, worked beside him), and Rock Lee (seen him fight, KN0 was saved by him). The point of it was to say that Kakashi was an incredible ninja, and that he's adept in all aspects of shinobi life, including taijutsu.
Lee was able to take attacks from Kimimaro, was able to still pressure him, and had the AP regardless. Unpredictability isn't an excuse for being harmed, especially if you're on guard. Lee used first gate, which always injures him, plus he was already injured from the surgery, so Kimimaro about to kill him just means Lee was vulnerable.
Fifth Gate's AP >>>>> Base Lee regardless, alcohol doesn't raise AP just movement. He was about to die post first gate, which we see against Gaara, destroyed Lee's body. Naruto has seen first, 4th, and 5th gate Lee. So regardless, Kakashi would have more AP.
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I find too much a stretch saying Kakashi > 5th Gate Lee because a taijutsu statement, specially when there isn't any conclusive evidence for even genin scalling. I completely disagree for now but I won't go against if most of the thread agrees. Not willing to debate any further.
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