Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[MinatoSparkle]

Naruto is very good. I'd say it's probably even better than most people give it credit for. But the best ever? Nah, not even close.

I haven't seen enough animanga to concretely claim it's the best ever, but not even close is wild. It's a 9/10 at bare minimum, probably a 9.5 (10 is reaching but P1 might be that level with the anime)

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Can't y'all just agree that Minato ~ Obito and call it a day? This is why I'm dreading the speed revisions, good lawd

 

[karo_senpaii]

Best piece of fiction will always be a highly subjective take.

Anyways ya'll think kawaki got some shibai cells and would awaken shinjutsu later?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I haven't seen enough animanga to concretely claim it's the best ever, but not even close is wild. It's a 9/10 at bare minimum, probably a 9.5 (10 is reaching but P1 might be that level with the anime)

Believe me, it's not even close.
Also, he was claiming that it was the best piece of fiction ever, not just animanga.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Can't y'all just agree that Minato ~ Obito and call it a day? This is why I'm dreading the speed revisions, good lawd

minato reactions> minato shunshin> minato~ obito is what i think they are arguing

 

[karo_senpaii]

naruto being the best animanga is a take I don't find wrong (although personally i put aot above) but best piece of fiction sounds like next level weed

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Y'all seriously need to read more manga.

minato reactions> minato shunshin> minato~ obito is what i think they are arguing

Aren't they arguing about combat speed? To me it sounded like both agree that Minato's reactions and shunshin are superior. But I could've misread ig.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Code fights another swordsman|Code vs Mira (0-6-1)

Code didn't learn his lesson after fighting Boruto and challenged another swordsman (swordswoman?). Will he finally catch a W or will his losing streak continue? Speed is equalized Limiters removed Code is used World Competition Mira is used Code scales to 10.14 Zettatons Mira scales to 7.25...

vsbattles.com

WIll code take another L or will he win?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Y'all seriously need to read more manga.


Aren't they arguing about combat speed? To me it sounded like both agree that Minato's reactions and shunshin are superior. But I could've misread ig.

If they are arguing combat speed then they both seem very relative to me

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Can't y'all just agree that Minato ~ Obito and call it a day? This is why I'm dreading the speed revisions, good lawd

I won't be having such a huge argument over such a small difference in the speed revisions (now about notable differences...)

Believe me, it's not even close.

I have seen some anime considered among the best ever like Death Note and Yu Yu Hakusho and still have Naruto as the best I've seen

Also, he was claiming that it was the best piece of fiction ever, not just animanga.

That is probably wanking sure (one of the best I've seen tho)

minato reactions> minato shunshin> minato~ obito is what i think they are arguing

Reaction speed and Shunshin aren't really the main topics. I think you could basically sum it up as I think Minato~>Obito and Neo thinks Obito~>Minato, which sounds kind of funny to have essay wars about when I say it like that

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

That is not the semantical part. It's quite simply true that it'd be bad for Minato to have reached Obito first. It's simply true that had he done that, Obito would've used Kamui, and then FTG level 2 wouldn't have worked.

Or he held back his speed in order to get Minato away by forcing him to teleport. This isn't a provable subject either way, just like Minato and Obito's interaction.

These instances together support Obito being relative, not faster, even by the marginal amount you're claiming.

Again, the semantics lies in whether Minato did hold back or not, it's not semantics whether it was ideal for Minato to attack slower. The former requires interpretation, the latter is simply obvious from thinking about what would've happened otherwise.

It doesn't require him to hold back his speed if he's already slower, but it requires Obito to remain solid and not switch to phasing pre-emptively.

This is going in circles

So you're saying that statements aren't valid without feats? Guess Momoshiki's a Kaguya victim after all.

Let's look at the other speed interactions they had for a moment.

• Minato grabs Naruto before Obito can strike him (I'm not particularly compelled by this feat but you are so I'll take it into account), and while Shunshin aided him in crossing the distance, grabbing Naruto before Obito stabbed him is all combat speed
• Minato reacts to Obito's sneak attack, attacking first (might be valid or invalid depending on whether you think Obito is going full speed), and Obito turns his hand over, adjusting it a few centimetres to catch Minato's arm, which is a reaction speed feat, and doesn't require being on par in the first place as he's moving considerably less than Minato
• With Minato being at least somewhat offguard after phasing through Obito (note Minato's "!!" reaction), Obito tags him while actually being aided by Minato's own speed as he's moving in the direction of Obito's chains

So the previous interactions absolutely don't prove he's equal to Minato in speed. Obito's feats against him are not enough to establish that Minato was going full speed at the end, which is the only true relativity interaction they have. Saying magically is also disingenuous as you're acting like it's not based on statements

Give me a good argument that Obito is faster than Minato and you would have a valid point. You don't need evidence to counter evidence without validity, you just need to show why the argument doesn't go through.

My goal rn is to explain why your argument doesn't hold up. After we've concluded the discussion around the validity of this argument, I can bring them up (though they're certainly not enough if this discussion doesn't convince you in the end).

I get combat, but where do you get movement from?

No, there are literally more possibilities in favor of Minato~/>Obito than Obito~>Minato numerically.
If Obito had a speed of 100 and Minato had a speed of like 95-99, the interaction would've played out like it did. But Minato could have a speed of anywhere from 100 to several hundred, and the interaction also would've played out like it did. Obviously the numbers are only a rough estimate, but the general idea is just that it's statistically improbable for Obito to be faster than Minato because there are fewer possibilities where it is the case.

This is not how equal interpretation works. You're making a claim about Obito's speed, so the burden of proof is on you. If I simply demonstrate that the chances of your claim being true are 50%, then the argument doesn't go through from your side. I don't need evidence (even though I have provided plenty), I need simply to cast reasonable doubt on your claim.

Are you referring to them reaching for each other and how the anime makes Minato move his arm faster than Obito?

I never said to a significant degree, but regardless of what degree, nothing other than this incredibly interpretable interaction supports him being any distance faster.

You haven't properly addressed the fact that Minato would've attacked the same way no matter how fast he was. You pretty much just said that it's an on screen feat so it should be used, which misses the point. You also ignored the short story that demonstrated why Minato outspeeding Obito would be bad. It's a more tangential point, but you also ignored Minato's combat speed>>Obito's movement speed.

And what I was referring to more generally is that you weren't directly responding to what I said in my previous message

As soon as I get comfortable and think I’m free!!

 

[MinatoSparkle]

As soon as I get comfortable and think I’m free!!

What if we agree to disagree since I assume your opinion is unchanged as is mine

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I won't be having such a huge argument over such a small difference in the speed revisions (now about notable differences...)

I guess we'll see...

I have seen some anime considered among the best ever like Death Note and Yu Yu Hakusho and still have Naruto as the best I've seen

That makes sense since Death Note dropped off a cliff in its latter half, and YYH is of comparable quality to Naruto I'd say, at least at its best. So you favoring Naruto over both isn't something that surprises me.

Also, just to be clear, I do think Naruto is really good. Probably really underrated too like I said above. But it definitely has a lot of flaws. It might be my favorite manga ever, but I do not think it is the best one objectively speaking.

That is probably wanking sure (one of the best I've seen tho)

That's fair.

Reaction speed and Shunshin aren't really the main topics. I think you could basically sum it up as I think Minato~>Obito and Neo thinks Obito~>Minato, which sounds kind of funny to have essay wars about when I say it like that

I know this wasn't directed at me, but personally I just think they're ~, with Minato having better reactions and probably shunshin speed.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

What if we agree to disagree since I assume your opinion is unchanged as is mine

Yeah, let’s bring an end to the essay wars.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Y'all seriously need to read more manga.

name one that's better (except aot) ill wait

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

name one that's better (except aot) ill wait

What's funny is that AoT isn't even better than Naruto

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I guess we'll see...

If the speed revisions come before we die of old age

That makes sense since Death Note dropped off a cliff in its latter half, and YYH is of comparable quality to Naruto I'd say, at least at its best. So you favoring Naruto over both isn't something that surprises me.

I probably have Naruto above the first half of Death Note in isolation too

Also, just to be clear, I do think Naruto is really good. Probably really underrated too like I said above. But it definitely has a lot of flaws. It might be my favorite manga ever, but I do not think it is the best one objectively speaking.

Tbh I think its flaws are quite overstated. Which you seem to think too given that you think it's underrated, but I think the flaws are over over stated then

That's fair.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but personally I just think they're ~, with Minato having better reactions and probably shunshin speed.

I mean...I find it kind of odd to say that Shunshin would be a different amp for different characters. It's generally portrayed that when people are relative in cqc, they're also relative in travel (think stuff like Sasuke and Kinshiki flying all across Kaguya's courtyard and also clashing relatively)

What's funny is that AoT isn't even better than Naruto

Dam really? So many ppl I've seen thinking Naruto is like an 8 or smthn talk about how AoT is peak animanga and tier gaps Naruto (even saw someone say it tier gaps Naruto 8 times over which I find very sus)

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah, let’s bring an end to the essay wars.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

If the speed revisions come before we die of old age

Nothing was stopping ya'll from getting it done while I was dEd.

But on a serious note, I'll try to get back on the CRT train starting next month. Whether we do speed first, or we adjust AP due to all of the changes (UES stuff and Konoha size) that happened to the verse in that past year, I'm still not sure tbh.

I probably have Naruto above the first half of Death Note in isolation too

Also not a crazy take in my eyes. I think Naruto at its best > DN at its best.

Tbh I think its flaws are quite overstated. Which you seem to think too given that you think it's underrated, but I think the flaws are over over stated then

I don't agree with most of the popular flaws people bring up. In fact, I think most of them are stupid. There are actual flaws, though. It's just that they're overshadowed by the idiotic popular takes we hear all the time.

I mean...I find it kind of odd to say that Shunshin would be a different amp for different characters. It's generally portrayed that when people are relative in cqc, they're also relative in travel (think stuff like Sasuke and Kinshiki flying all across Kaguya's courtyard and also clashing relatively)

Notice how I said "probably"? Also, you can absolutely have different levels of proficiency in the use of the same technique.

Dam really? So many ppl I've seen thinking Naruto is like an 8 or smthn talk about how AoT is peak animanga and tier gaps Naruto (even saw someone say it tier gaps Naruto 8 times over which I find very sus)

AoT is massively overrated in my opinion. It's good, but the people acting like it's the second coming of Berserk are smoking some good shit.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

AoT is massively overrated in my opinion. It's good, but the people acting like it's the second coming of Berserk are smoking some good shit.

Ah yes, the second coming of Femto and his Casca

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

This shit is raw as ****.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

What's funny is that AoT isn't even better than Naruto

I am of the opinion that naruto is better but I don't think its blatantly wrong of a take as saying something like one piece or bleach being above naruto
That does not answer my question tho

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I am of the opinion that naruto is better but I don't think its blatantly wrong of a take as saying something like one piece or bleach being above naruto

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think Bleach >~ Naruto is probably easier to argue than AoT >> Naruto.

That does not answer my question tho

Okay.
Berserk, Slam Dunk, Vagabond, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, HxH, FMA/B, Holyland low-key, Real, 20th Century Boys, Grand Blue, Vinland Saga, Monster, Uzumaki, etc.

High-key, I'm only scratching the surface with these.
I think "Naruto is the best/one of the best Shonen of all time" is probably a more realistic claim to defend. But best animanga ever is IMHO a bit of a stretch.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Nothing was stopping ya'll from getting it done while I was dEd.

Also I'm pretty sure my takes wouldn't have gotten widespread agreement

But on a serious note, I'll try to get back on the CRT train starting next month. Whether we do speed first, or we adjust AP due to all of the changes (UES stuff and Konoha size) that happened to the verse in that past year, I'm still not sure tbh.

I vote speed personally since it's probably more outdated (also Minato) but up to y'all

Also not a crazy take in my eyes. I think Naruto at its best > DN at its best.

Ite

I don't agree with most of the popular flaws people bring up. In fact, I think most of them are stupid. There are actual flaws, though. It's just that they're overshadowed by the idiotic popular takes we hear all the time.

Sure, I think Naruto and Sasuke's relationship could've been developed more in P1, some of the earlier Shippuden arcs weren't amazing, and I'm not quite sure how I feel about the political resolution of the story, but ion think the flaws are enough to bring it down from top tier.

Notice how I said "probably"? Also, you can absolutely have different levels of proficiency in the use of the same technique.

True. Whether it's BF or general speed though, Minato should overall be faster cause of him being the fastest ninja in the world (全忍随一の神速を誇る武勇の誉れは、他里の猛者をも魅了する！). I guess you could also say FTG but I find that iffy since it's not technically speed.

AoT is massively overrated in my opinion. It's good, but the people acting like it's the second coming of Berserk are smoking some good shit.

I shall take ur word for it until I see it myself

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Okay.
Berserk, Slam Dunk, Vagabond, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, HxH, FMA/B, Holyland low-key, Real, 20th Century Boys, Grand Blue, Vinland Saga, Monster, Uzumaki, etc.

High-key, I'm only scratching the surface with these.
I think "Naruto is the best/one of the best Shonen of all time" is probably a more realistic claim to defend. But best animanga ever is IMHO a bit of a stretch.

holy sneak ive read most of these and some of these either dont come close (uzumaki, grand blue, fmab) or still inferior

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think Bleach >~ Naruto is probably easier to argue than AoT >> Naruto.

Bl-...okay now it all makes sense nvm then

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

holy sneak ive read most of these and some of these either dont come close (uzumaki, grand blue, fmab) or still inferior

Well, it ain't a crime to have bad taste.

Bl-...okay now it all makes sense nvm then

I'm not really a Bleach fan if that's what you're insinuating.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This is an interesting statement

A lil unfortunate that it probably can't be used for YM Obito's AP cause non-UES

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

This is an interesting statement

A lil unfortunate that it probably can't be used for YM Obito's AP cause non-UES

Wouldn’t it automatically just scale him over the likes of the Sanin in a general sense?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

I’ve also seen this used for scaling online as well:

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I’ve also seen this used for scaling online as well:

I always figured this meant Minato considered Masked Man Obito to be way above everyone else in the Akatsuki considering he doesn't even think Pain is much of a threat compared to him.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

I always figured this meant Minato considered Masked Man Obito to be way above everyone else in the Akatsuki considering he doesn't even think Pain is much of a threat compared to him.

This + The Flashback Fight + The Minato One Shot could inform this tbh.

 

[SlendVeny]

I am of the opinion that naruto is better but I don't think its blatantly wrong of a take as saying something like one piece or bleach being above naruto
That does not answer my question tho

One Piece and Bleach slaughter AOT effortlessly wdym

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Wouldn’t it automatically just scale him over the likes of the Sanin in a general sense?

It does in "power," but idk if considering site standards, it can be assumed that power to control and summon a creature = AP

I’ve also seen this used for scaling online as well:

I use this to put YM Obito close to KCM2 Naruto in speed since it's implied Naruto needs to master Kurama's power to even stand a chance against him, as if it'd still be a tough fight with it (highkey consistent).

 

[HelloThere1089]

crazy how people cant fathom the idea of people appreciating a series above others and have to force the idea that it is mediocre trash
Naruto deserves a better fanbase that doesn't beat the series down or be dismissive of people gassing the series (energy that isn't present in other fandoms)

Pipe down lil bro. Nobody is forcing anything on you. You have the right to say Naruto is the best in your opinion, and I have the right to say your opinion is ass. Crazy you couldn't fathom that. It's not that deep.

Also, I never called Naruto mediocre trash. I called it good. You know what Naruto deserves? A fanbase that can read, but you're not helping at all.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Imo, the Naruto franchise is a solid 9/10.

 

[HelloThere1089]

What's funny is that AoT isn't even better than Naruto

This is so real oml.

Okay.
Berserk, Slam Dunk, Vagabond, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, HxH, FMA/B, Holyland low-key, Real, 20th Century Boys, Grand Blue, Vinland Saga, Monster, Uzumaki, etc.

Great choices. Anything from Urasawa is gonna be good. Not to mention this isn't even taking into account the movies, shows, novels from around the world. There have been so many stories throughout humanity's history, and to claim Naruto is the best humanity has to offer is wild.

High-key, I'm only scratching the surface with these.
I think "Naruto is the best/one of the best Shonen of all time" is probably a more realistic claim to defend. But best animanga ever is IMHO a bit of a stretch.

A while back I said in this thread that people need to read more seinen. I was right.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I'm not really a Bleach fan if that's what you're insinuating.

it's fine if you are, it's just a little surprising to see odd title(s) placed above naruto in your view

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Not to mention this isn't even taking into account the movies, shows, novels from around the world.

MLP, Avatar, Ace Attorney, Captain America: Civil War, and Endgame (these are not the kinds of stories you're thinking of)

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

One Piece and Bleach slaughter AOT effortlessly wdym

put the phone down my friend