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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
HelloThere1089
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What's the reason for Shisui > Itachi?
Apollonir.Scale
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I think Shisui can beat max Hidan and Konan from Akatsuki.
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He was slightly superior to Itachi when he was still alive, but tbh I think that was mainly because Shisui was a bit older and because he had a Mangekyo Sharingan and Itachi didn't. But in terms of potential, skill, talent, etc, I think they're more or less dead even IMO.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Just based on their scaling to each other when they were both alive at the same time, Shisui was considered the strongest living Uchiha at the time. Makes sense considering he had the MS and a Humanoid Susano'o.
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They're Hiruzen's classmates, so they should've been ~69-70 in Part I.
This would make them 72 during Part II. 74 during The Last. 87 during NNG. And ~90 during TBV.
Ancient ass mfers
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madara and orochimaro claiming immortality with so much amp meahwhile these MF just sitting and casually have true immortalityThey're Hiruzen's classmates, so they should've been ~69-70 in Part I.
This would make them 72 during Part II. 74 during The Last. 87 during NNG. And ~90 during TBV.
Ancient ass mfers
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the correct answer would be to choose neither because danzo making him choose is a false dichotomy.
just because Danzo gives you two options doesnt mean only two options exist.
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"Do this and live or do nothing and die."
"I pick neither! I won't do anything."
"So... the second?"
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"A false dichotomy (or false dilemma) is a logical fallacy where an argument presents two options as the only possible choices, ignoring other alternatives that may exist. It forces a situation into an either/or scenario when, in reality, there are more options or a more nuanced middle ground. This oversimplification often misleads the audience into thinking there are only two outcomes or courses of action."
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"Do this or I will kill you""A false dichotomy (or false dilemma) is a logical fallacy where an argument presents two options as the only possible choices, ignoring other alternatives that may exist. It forces a situation into an either/or scenario when, in reality, there are more options or a more nuanced middle ground. This oversimplification often misleads the audience into thinking there are only two outcomes or courses of action."
"There's another thing I can do"
"Ok, I will kill you."
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in any case if you want a practical resolution , the answer would be to eliminate the immediate threats and then work on creating a safety net for deescalation. the idea that every child or member of the clan down to the infant must be killed to avoid future uprising isnt pragmatic its fear mongering and used by people IRL to justify genocide, its also irrational and logically flawed, the argument frames killing as the only solution to prevent future hatred, which is a form of false dichotomy. It overlooks numerous other approaches, such as rehabilitation, education, diplomacy, or peaceful integration, which could address the root causes of hatred and prevent violence without resorting to atrocity, Itachi himself had the knowledge of Madara Uchiha which alone would have deescalated a lot of suspicion around the uchiha at the time, more importantly Itachi himself comes to understand that he made the wrong choice by suggesting that it was possible for sasuke to have changed the clan in a way that would have prevented this whole ordeal.
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Wouldn't they be 77 in The Last since Shippuden takes place over the course of 3 years?They're Hiruzen's classmates, so they should've been ~69-70 in Part I.
This would make them 72 during Part II. 74 during The Last. 87 during NNG. And ~90 during TBV.
Ancient ass mfers
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Itachi is empathetic not because he made the right "hard" choice, his empathetic because we have the context for why he made his choices but understandable doesn't mean agreeable, at the end of the day he committed genocide of his own free will and the ends do not justify the means.
HelloThere1089
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Ballsack face
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Just noticed that Kurama and Bijuus are lowballed. 50% of Kurama’s powers = 5 bijuus meaning each each tailed beast is actually magnitude stronger then the last. Each bijuu would be like at least 4x-5x stronger from one another. If 100% Kurama was to fight in the war, I bet it would take even 8tails (hypothetically) to even take on Kurama
EDIT: would we be able to find something for Kurama and the others if we use the Kakashi statement when he had Kurama’s chakra?
EDIT: would we be able to find something for Kurama and the others if we use the Kakashi statement when he had Kurama’s chakra?
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I think it's more like ~2 years give or take, or maybe even less. But you're right, I didn't take Part II's duration into account. So the elders could be like ~92-ish in TBV.
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its the best piece of fiction made by the hands of man
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we need to stop using that phrase
HelloThere1089
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You should read more
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The Immediate Threats are the Elders and Danzou. Attacking them is Treason and War at that time. Deescalation isn’t possible in that Scenario. Even if you solely attacked Danzou, tue Root will not be quiet. Deescalation isn’t possible and the elders would cry foul ontop of that. Deescalation isn’t possible in that scenario either.
Hiruzen was privy to everything and sanctioned it. Attacking a sitting Hokage? Come on… Deescalation isn’t possible in that scenario either.
Except Danzou was deadass serious & more then capable of making it happen, and he wasn’t wrong in what he told Itachi. The kids old enough to understand that LEAF NINJA are killing their family leads to animosity against them among their ranks (We’ve seen it happening in the middle east for decades, as well as in Africa, so it is definitely realistic and more then likely to happen). Children not old enough understand will grow to understand. It’s not realistic to think you can hide the fact it was an inside operation that killed your clan.
There would be no Shinobi World Wars in the history books over the slaughtering of a prominent Village Clan, which would definitely trigger a SWW. No records of Rogue Ninja Arrested or killed in the numbers necessary to take down the clan (Or Strength). You’d have to invent an adversary, rewrite Uchiha History to a degree and suppress the truth among all of top Leaf Village Ranks & Clans to the best of your ability, hoping nothing leaks, no gossip, etc etc. Just to justify not killing the infants and toddlers, which ITSELF is equally egregious.
You wouldn’t be able to hide the Village having committed genocide of all Men, Women and Children of a Certain Age in one of the strongest clans for decades without someone to pin it on. So yes, they “would” be considered a future threat / liability for the Village if allowed to grow older and this is supported by IRL examples as well. We can denounce it and acknowledge the wickedness of it, but that doesn’t mean the threat to the Village isn’t there or tangible in that scenario.
There weren’t numerous other approaches to be had. The situation was beyond that. The Uchiha had already been prepping for it and diplomacy had failed. THEY wanted control of the Government or at least substantial say in the Government by the time Itachi was presented the ultimatum. Anything other than a roadmap to that end wasn’t acceptable to the Uchiha and Danzou and the Elders weren’t having it (And Hiruzen wasn’t effective in Diplomacy). It left the Uchiha in limbo, growing bitter and bitter.
In reference to what we know of the verse, the only way to cool things down was either create a new organizational structure in the Leaf Government (May nor May Not be Subject to Daimyo Approval), add Prominent Uchiha as advisors to the Hokage (But this likely would cause a stir with the other Clans w/o representation) or Place Fugaku as the Next Hokage Nomination (Which Danzou & The Elders would likely kneecap this possibility). Anything short of these things and the Uchiha are not budging.
Not True. Itachi had knowledge but no tangible evidence. The Uchiha would also reject the notion of having the Yamanakas dive into his mind and memories for obvious reasons. It would be just like how Boruto is right now.
Iirc, it came off as more of a “maybe” then fact. And if we’re applying any level of realism to this, that would not suffice at all. At best it could get Fugaku to back off it, but all that would do is eventually lead to an Uchiha Civil War. Most likely with factions seeking to depose Fugaku.
HelloThere1089
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What if Itachi took Sasuke and fled? And let the villagers hash it out.
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That would still result in the Leaf Civil War w/ threats of other Nations invading in the process and potential extermination of their clan w/ him AND Sasuke likely being Branded Rogue Nin with hits out for them.
Itachi still also cared about the village.
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Itachi cared about the village very deeply, so he could never let that happen under any circumstances. He really was stuck between a rock and a hard place. The people who truly had the power to enact a different outcome were the Village elders and the Uchiha coup leaders. Itachi had no real say in the situation they put him in.
HelloThere1089
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Itachi really was balls deep in this mess smh.
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Yeah, it was terrible lmao. Shisui really was his only hope there, but that rat bastard Danzo destroyed that one.
HelloThere1089
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Honestly? Danzo seems more evil than Zetsu sometimes. Bro had the potential to be the final villain. But I guess Sasuke raw dogging him was justice.
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Yeah, it's why Sasuke vs Danzo is one of the most satisfying fights in all of Naruto. I'm convinced that Kishimoto came up with Izanagi solely to give Sasuke (and the reader) the catharsis of seeing Danzo die over and over again.
Creating such a universally despised character takes skill. It's why I believe Danzo is one of the best written characters in the series.
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There are not as many plot holes in Naruto as the internet would like you to believe
Madara's betrayal and death are essential to his character
Kaguya and BZ could've been better but I don't see them as series ruining as a lot of people do
A lot of character's arcs were finished in P1 hence their lack of "presence" in P2.
The anime added so much to Naruto franchise as a whole. Both for better and for worse.
Itachi is an inherently flawed character and you either have a side who glazes him to no end or a side that demonizes him for being a child soldier.
A lot of characters in Naruto are "failures" but that's what makes them so great.
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An intelligent take from a Haise pfp is to be expected.
Testarossa002
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If you're a believer of Karma, you could point out really that the Uchiha had their extinction coming since they themselves drove another clan to near extinction.
For more context, read Sasuke Shinden
Or watch the Ketsuryugan arc in the anime
For more context, read Sasuke Shinden
Or watch the Ketsuryugan arc in the anime
HelloThere1089
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That's not how karma works. And I don't even believe in it.
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"Those damn Uchihas deserve what happened to them!"
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No one's argument was whether or not the ends justified the means. It was whether or not he had a better option. He did not.
The immediate threat was Root, an entire organization led by one of the few guys in the village who could probably kill him.
Yeah, that's Danzo shit. Too bad Itachi wasn't the one in charge of the situation. I sincerely doubt he agreed with Danzo, he just wanted there to be 2 survivors, which is more than 0.
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Karma? Uchiha? Peak?
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.......
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-.. --- - / -.. --- - / -.. --- -
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To add my two cents,
Omnipotence doesn't directly remove any new contradictory memory, it actively forces one not to care about them. So naturally victims forget the contradiction overtime, and if brought up again they remain complacent.
What it directly removes is the Omnipotence name and ability's concept. So the victim will never understand the reason for any visual contradiction.
The memory switch didn't make Boruto an automatic enemy.
Boruto is mostly an enemy because of the lie being told that he killed the Hokage, and not directly because of omnipotence. Everyone is free to do as they please, even to side with a perceived enemy. That is the loophole.
If Eida had used Omnipotence to turn Boruto to an enemy-to-kill directly, not even Sasuke will listen to his daughter.
But either way, Omnipotence is absolute within the verse. Their memory will never be restored. They have to find new reasons outside of omnipotence to believe in Boruto.
In Boruto's situation, victims can choose to help him due to personal reasons.
For Sasuke, it's Sarada's plea.
For Mitsuki, it's definition of the "sun"
For Shikamaru?? Yes, there's no defined reason for trusting Boruto's words as you said. Maybe doesn't want to accept that Kawaki could in fact had killed Naruto.
None of them truly believe Boruto is Naruto's son even if they consciously tell themselves that. Not even Koji. Omnipotence works on a subconscious level.
HelloThere1089
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If the current quality is kept up, Shikamaru might become my GOAT Hokage. Which is kinda funny to think about.
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