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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Oof. There are a lot of outdated and debunked arguments in there. I'm not gonna butt in, but I wanted to point out that, all chakra on Earth is not Kaguya's. Everything already has chakra. Hagoromo only spread the knowledge of molding chakra and Indra introduced jutsus or sumn. But Earth and earthlings already had all the chakra. All chakra on Earth combined = Kaguya's chakra doesn't even make sense logically. Everytime someone gives birth, the amount of chakra in the system will increase. Chakra isn't conserved like that. Kaguya is just arrogant and thinks she deserves all the chakra on Earth because she targeted it and wanted to suck all of it using the God tree but failed.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
There's some evidence to suggest that Kaguya's dimensions are prob universe sized or at least as big as the main universe in the post naruto era, the issue is that theres less evidence to suggest that Kaguya was going to destroy the entire dimension as oppose to their immediate space (the Kanji isnt even the same as the one they use to describe the parallel universes and or dimensions), which can range from anywhere from Planet level to solar system level, but even if we were to be charitable and say Kaguya had a universal level ETSB, it would be a massive Outlier for any scaling purposes because characters stronger than that version of Kaguya fear and can be harmed by things significantly below Universe level. in which case i dont think its really a great or consistent meta to use outside of trying to find a hypothetical maximum potential for scaling.

also connecting the dimensions isnt an AP feat, her ability as described in the databook is basically like summoning the dimension, which per obito's words requires a massive amount of chakra but its not a direct AP feat.
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Dont see a problem with scaling if accepted. The explanation is Kaguya's immortality can bypass the universal AP.
Mid-god level resurrection exists in-verse.

The move would end up being a suicide move, or Kaguya is just straight-up immune to ETSB.
 
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that isnt what i said, i said that you cant have them reasonably scale to Universal level in terms of their stats even if the ETSB was universal
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Oof. There are a lot of outdated and debunked arguments in there. I'm not gonna butt in, but I wanted to point out that, all chakra on Earth is not Kaguya's. Everything already has chakra. Hagoromo only spread the knowledge of molding chakra and Indra introduced jutsus or sumn. But Earth and earthlings already had all the chakra. All chakra on Earth combined = Kaguya's chakra doesn't even make sense logically. Everytime someone gives birth, the amount of chakra in the system will increase. Chakra isn't conserved like that. Kaguya is just arrogant and thinks she deserves all the chakra on Earth because she targeted it and wanted to suck all of it using the God tree but failed.
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I suspect that if we end up getting the lore, all chakra on earth and in the universe may likely originate from the Shinju. I think Kaguya was speaking as one with the Shinju.
 
Kayzz said:
I suspect that if we end up getting the lore, all chakra on earth and in the universe may likely originate from the Shinju. I think Kaguya was speaking as one with the Shinju.
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Even if we do get anything like that, it would still not mean that all chakra on Earth = Kaguya's Chakra. In the same way Boruto and Himawari's chakra isn't Naruto's chakra. But I get what you mean.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
that isnt what i said, i said that you cant have them reasonably scale to Universal level in terms of their stats even if the ETSB was universal
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Can a 'likely higher' be added?
Or was it specifically stated that it was the root dimension she would destroy? However, it should be noted Kakashi feared they wouldn't be able to return.
 
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Ar1216789 said:
What about creating her dimensions? I've seen several proofs of the dimensions being universal in size, the Kanji for space-time is 時空: Spacetime In physics, spacetime (or space-time, space time, space-time continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum. Spacetime is usually interpreted with space as being three-dimensional and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions. From a Euclidean space perspective, the universe has three dimensions of space and one dimension of time. Something notable about her technique name.. also Viz translation in the one to be used since its a universally accepted translation, the reason its spelled "time-space" is because the Kanji is spelled backward and Japanese translators right it as "time-spaces" instead of "space-time." She created said dimensions, backed up by the manga when the ETSO's purpose was to destroy the space-time and recreate it. The databook also implies she can create dimension a she pleases, and don't even start pulling the "it wasn't her chakra" arguement. That's dumb for several reasons. 1. All Chakra is Kaguya's chakra. It's her taking back the Chakra thats hers. 2. She can contain the chakra and thus scales to it, now like how Madara exploded due to absorbing Chakra he can't contain, which implies he doesn't scale to.

Another matter, why don't Naruto and Sasuke scale to Kaguya, they've surpassed her power. That alone should get them to 4-C. When I saw Naruto's profile I was shocked tbh, Naruto Moon Level? This is like making 60 Joinin = Naruto. Juubitos is already Planetary, I don't get why he would only erase the surface. Nor does the reasoning of the wiki seem justified by the evidence.
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Was that kanji specifically used in the manga?

The problem is Kaguya's dimension was stated to be just six in number. How would you reconcile six dimensions with universe size?
 
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ssgengar said:
I do. The fights are cool but I’m dying to see the story get fleshed out a bit more
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Real. I'm tryna get some lore out here. Stuff like where the Otsutsussy comes from and what did Momo mean by them altering Shinobi history. But I'm not sure if we are specifically getting more wordbuilding or not in this chapter. Just that it might be an interesting info dump.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Oof. There are a lot of outdated and debunked arguments in there. I'm not gonna butt in, but I wanted to point out that, all chakra on Earth is not Kaguya's. Everything already has chakra. Hagoromo only spread the knowledge of molding chakra and Indra introduced jutsus or sumn. But Earth and earthlings already had all the chakra. All chakra on Earth combined = Kaguya's chakra doesn't even make sense logically. Everytime someone gives birth, the amount of chakra in the system will increase. Chakra isn't conserved like that. Kaguya is just arrogant and thinks she deserves all the chakra on Earth because she targeted it and wanted to suck all of it using the God tree but failed.
Click to expand...
She's the Mother of All Chakra. Hagoromo and Hamura's influence spread out this Chakra, it's her Chakra. That has been passed onto her kids then everyone else. She's merely taking back what's hers. And I've already explained before if she contains it, she scales to it. Further backing up my claims.
 
Kayzz said:
Was that kanji specifically used in the manga?

The problem is Kaguya's dimension was stated to be just six in number. How would you reconcile six dimensions with universe size?
Click to expand...
Yes, specific Kanji was used. I've seen good arguments for universal size dimensions. Sasuke teleportation, Naruto SO6P range, her dimensions including stars, moons, etc. I'll try and find good evidence for this to back up what I'm saying.
 
Ar1216789 said:
She's the Mother of All Chakra. Hagoromo and Hamura's influence spread out this Chakra, it's her Chakra. That has been passed onto her kids then everyone else. She's merely taking back what's hers. And I've already explained before if she contains it, she scales to it. Further backing up my claims.
Click to expand...
Kaguya=Isshiki's mom confirmed
 
Ar1216789 said:
She's the Mother of All Chakra. Hagoromo and Hamura's influence spread out this Chakra, it's her Chakra. That has been passed onto her kids then everyone else. She's merely taking back what's hers. And I've already explained before if she contains it, she scales to it. Further backing up my claims.
Click to expand...
No. first of all everyone had chakra, they just did not know how to combine physical and mental energy to use it. The whole point of the otsusuki bringing the god tree to earth was to suck the earth and its inhabitants chakra. If they had none, what was it sucking (slight pause)
Let's even assume you are right. Chakra is not some closed energy system following the law of conservation of energy. That's like saying boruto and hinamawri chakra belong to naruto coz they were born from him and like somehow naruto is weaker after having them and if he sucks their chakra dry he will be back to full strength. You have this idea that there is one fixed amount of chakra on earth then kaguya gave her sons and hag passed it down slowly. This would mean the more hag gave the weaker he got. No actually if he gave what was lost will just naturally come back to him after a good rest. Yeah sure he expended some chakra hitting for the process of asura and indra coming to life but before they were born he would be back to full strength. say hag had 1000 chakra and 5 chakra was giving to each child, he has 990 left. He rest and recovers back to 1000. the total chakra in the system has increased and is now 1010. Those 2 babies in turn grow up and through physical training the cells in their body gain energy and their mental energy increases due to spiritual training. they both grow their chakra to like 700 each. The total chakra in the system is now 1k+700+700=2400. tIf hag takes that chakra he is not taking back his chakra, the chakra he will get will be at a whole new level than his prime. Let's continue that system for a thousand years. If kaguya chakra was like 10k by a thousand years, the total energy people had could be millions or billions or more even. If she takes everyone's chakra it would so much surpass what she had in her prime it would be ridiculous. Kaguya is just an entitled otsusuki well just like any other otsusuki, she thinks coz she started the process then no one else deserves it and all of it must belong to her and no one else
 
should momoshiki not have a possible key for IT? that's what otsusuki pairs use for their invasion and they just finished harvesting a world prior. Plus, he is the superior so he should at least have it
 
karo_senpaii said:
No. first of all everyone had chakra, they just did not know how to combine physical and mental energy to use it. The whole point of the otsusuki bringing the god tree to earth was to suck the earth and its inhabitants chakra. If they had none, what was it sucking (slight pause)
Let's even assume you are right. Chakra is not some closed energy system following the law of conservation of energy. That's like saying boruto and hinamawri chakra belong to naruto coz they were born from him and like somehow naruto is weaker after having them and if he sucks their chakra dry he will be back to full strength. You have this idea that there is one fixed amount of chakra on earth then kaguya gave her sons and hag passed it down slowly. This would mean the more hag gave the weaker he got. No actually if he gave what was lost will just naturally come back to him after a good rest. Yeah sure he expended some chakra hitting for the process of asura and indra coming to life but before they were born he would be back to full strength. say hag had 1000 chakra and 5 chakra was giving to each child, he has 990 left. He rest and recovers back to 1000. the total chakra in the system has increased and is now 1010. Those 2 babies in turn grow up and through physical training the cells in their body gain energy and their mental energy increases due to spiritual training. they both grow their chakra to like 700 each. The total chakra in the system is now 1k+700+700=2400. tIf hag takes that chakra he is not taking back his chakra, the chakra he will get will be at a whole new level than his prime. Let's continue that system for a thousand years. If kaguya chakra was like 10k by a thousand years, the total energy people had could be millions or billions or more even. If she takes everyone's chakra it would so much surpass what she had in her prime it would be ridiculous. Kaguya is just an entitled otsusuki well just like any other otsusuki, she thinks coz she started the process then no one else deserves it and all of it must belong to her and no one else
Click to expand...
Contains it = Scales to it. It's not my only point, i'm not top-tier on Naruto, but I've seen some good arguments, the all chakra is hers being one of them, I'll research about the topic.
 
SlendVeny said:
Why?
Click to expand...
If they contain such energy to perform said feat, they scale to as such. Madara absorbed too much chakra, chakra he wouldn't scale to, and exploded. This tells us that if you can contain the chakra you absorb, you can scale to it. If you absorb too much chakra, chakra you don't scale to, you probably explode, like what happened to Madara.
 
Ar1216789 said:
She's the Mother of All Chakra. Hagoromo and Hamura's influence spread out this Chakra, it's her Chakra. That has been passed onto her kids then everyone else. She's merely taking back what's hers. And I've already explained before if she contains it, she scales to it. Further backing up my claims.
Click to expand...
You have very outdated information. And it doesn't even make sense logically. Karo explained it pretty well what I was trying to tell you earlier about the reproduction problem. Besides, there are beings that predate Kaguya that already had chakra.

Not to mention the contains it = scales to it makes no sense whatsoever. If someone uses 95 percent of their chakra in a single attack, their normal ones don't scale to that attack at all. Kaguya used the shinobi alliance chakra, something that isn't her own chakra using basic logical reasoning, in her ETSB. So it doesn't scale to her other attacks. You can make arguments to scale other characters over her ETSB, but not Kaguya.
 
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