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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

HelloThere1089 said:
No. Jigen can be caught off guard. The point of hitting the back is that Sasuke wouldn't be infront of Jigen where he can anticipate his attack. Instead Jigen would be busy absorbing Naruto's huge Rasengan and Sasuke can sneak attack him from the back. Sasuke has previously caught Jigen off guard with his kicks.

It failed because Sasuke was in Jigens like of sight. In fact Jigen was looking straight at his sword. Jigen already mentioned that it was difficult for him to move while absorption. So a plan that centers around catching him off guard should have worked because that's what plans are for. They had him on 2 separate occasions and lost because their plans were too shallow. Which is my point. Jigen is not some omniscient being that knows everything and can see everything. He can definitely be fooled. Sasuke and Naruto didn't use nearly as complex as the plans they used to in Shippuden.
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that was v1 jigen not v2 jigen and he did not catch him off guard, jigen actually slightly turned his head, sasuke was just much faster coz he lightning amped and it is not like jigen did not know the kick won't do much.


You realize Sasuke swapping places is a better way of taking him unawares than going behind him? what you think the guy that tracks chakra as much as interdimensional and could sense kawaki elsewhere would somehow not sense sasuke behind his back? all he has to do is think it and the rods protect him again. Moreover your plan involves rather than them going 2v1 naruto takes him head on and is a distraction for sasuke to chip in. yeah no naruto is not lasting a second against v2 jigen. He is not strong enough to make that big of an opening. You said they had him twice but that's the thing they never did. From ours and their pov it seems like they did but they did not. We were just fed suspense twice. their attack never hit once so how can you say they had him? first scenerio they tried to corner him and he teleported away. When sasuke telports coz he is not fast enough to dodge does it mean they had him? no he just used a different skill set. Second scenerio they thought they caught him off guard but they did not . It's really just a case of "jigen was too fast".
 
karo_senpaii said:
that was v1 jigen not v2 jigen and he did not catch him off guard, jigen actually slightly turned his head, sasuke was just much faster coz he lightning amped and it is not like jigen did not know the kick won't do much.
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So Jigen let him kick?
karo_senpaii said:
You realize Sasuke swapping places is a better way of taking him unawares than going behind him? what you think the guy that tracks chakra as much as interdimensional and could sense kawaki elsewhere would somehow not sense sasuke behind his back?
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Even Momoshiki could anticipate Sasuke's amenotejikara. Switching places isn't as effective in catching off guard as you think. Especially not if Sasuke ends up literally in front of his eyes. Switching behind him would have been better because he can't see there. So that adds a layer of distraction.
karo_senpaii said:
all he has to do is think it and the rods protect him again. Moreover your plan involves rather than them going 2v1 naruto takes him head on and is a distraction for sasuke to chip in. yeah no naruto is not lasting a second against v2 jigen.
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Doesn't have to be V2. It can be V1. They just have to plan early and let Jigen underestimate them. And you think Naruto can't keep up for a few seconds using NE and boil release?
karo_senpaii said:
He is not strong enough to make that big of an opening. You said they had him twice but that's the thing they never did. From ours and their pov it seems like they did but they did not. We were just fed suspense twice. their attack never hit once so how can you say they had him?
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Because both times Jigen was surprised which proves he can be caught off guard and he does underestimate the duo. He even says the plan was good and that Sasuke is smart.
karo_senpaii said:
first scenerio they tried to corner him and he teleported away.
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Because Sasuke was literally in front of him. He knew Sasuke was attacking so of course he teleported away.
karo_senpaii said:
When sasuke telports coz he is not fast enough to dodge does it mean they had him? no he just used a different skill set. Second scenerio they thought they caught him off guard but they did not . It's really just a case of "jigen was too fast".
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Jigen is fast but he can be caught off guard. Which is what they should have planned around. Both Jigen and Isshiki have been kicked by Naruto and Sasuke when he wasn't expecting them. It's not that hard to imagine that they could have added more distractions to finish the job. Just because Jigen protected his neck the 2nd time doesn't mean he would have if Sasuke didn't teleport in front of him.
 
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Whichever version of Naruto is comfortably above light speed and country to continent level is the one that takes it. So like peak generosity for Naruto and less for Luffy would have him getting bodied by like KCM, whereas a more conservative Naruto and more generous Luffy would have him getting beat by So6P.
 
For me, I think it's primarily a speed issue. I think it's far easier to get Luffy to lightspeed and beyond than pre SP Naruto. However, for AP, I think it's easier to have "Bijuu" and higher caliber characters stronger (High 6-B and beyond) than it is for Luffy. So, it's like if you subscribe to the more "lightning timers" meta for the top tiers and non god tiers of Naruto, then it's kinda hard for Naruto to be doing anything in the realm of tagging someone 100s if not 1000s of times faster, and Luffy has non AP related ways of killing people.
 
in my case i dont have luffy 1000's of times faster but i do have him faster, i also dont really have Haki's bypassing dura being all that useful because i dont have most of his internal organs being massively below his exterior at least not his Kurama variants, theres also obviously regen.

It think Naruto's biggest issue prior to G5 is mostly just Haki precog which is gonna make any direct assaults hard to land, but i do think naruto has the AOE and crowd control to manage it. G5 brings its own issues that i dont think Kurama Link mode can easily handle.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
in my case i dont have luffy 1000's of times faster but i do have him faster, i also dont really have Haki's bypassing dura being all that useful because i dont have most of his internal organs being massively below his exterior at least not his Kurama variants, theres also obviously regen.

It think Naruto's biggest issue prior to G5 is mostly just Haki precog which is gonna make any direct assaults hard to land, but i do think naruto has the AOE and crowd control to manage it. G5 brings its own issues that i dont think Kurama Link mode can easily handle.
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What's your personal scaling for like G5 Luffy and KCM through Baryon Mode Naruto.
 
uhh like KCM 2 and G4 Luffy at country level with higher into country to continent level with their strongest attacks

G5 Luffy is like Multi cont to moon level and six paths naruto is higher into moon level to small planet, his adult versions prob just stack onto this, being higher into small planet to planet level if you want take the direct scaling of Toneri's final attack. and then baryon mode is also a degree higher than that.

in terms of speed i think Luffy is faster than any naruto until we get into the adult era where i think the gap gets smaller until we at something like Baryon Mode.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
uhh like KCM 2 and G4 Luffy at country level with higher into country to continent level with their strongest attacks

G5 Luffy is like Multi cont to moon level and six paths naruto is higher into moon level to small planet, his adult versions prob just stack onto this, being higher into small planet to planet level if you want take the direct scaling of Toneri's final attack. and then baryon mode is also a degree higher than that.

in terms of speed i think Luffy is faster than any naruto until we get into the adult era where i think the gap gets smaller until we at something like Baryon Mode.
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So G5 is like blitzing and one shotting pm anyone that's weaker than SP Nard
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
For me, I think it's primarily a speed issue. I think it's far easier to get Luffy to lightspeed and beyond than pre SP Naruto. However, for AP, I think it's easier to have "Bijuu" and higher caliber characters stronger (High 6-B and beyond) than it is for Luffy. So, it's like if you subscribe to the more "lightning timers" meta for the top tiers and non god tiers of Naruto, then it's kinda hard for Naruto to be doing anything in the realm of tagging someone 100s if not 1000s of times faster, and Luffy has non AP related ways of killing people.
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Naruto and Luffy should be relative in speed, personally I have them both Ftl+ especially sage Naruto. The Kakashi Novel highlights a Jounin who uses something similar to Lightning blade to smash a bolder and it moved at LS. Then the shinobi ranking system says he'd be below an anbu then Naruto can blitz the asura path which a Anbu couldn't react to.
 
Raiden_Azno said:
Naruto and Luffy should be relative in speed, personally I have them both Ftl+ especially sage Naruto. The Kakashi Novel highlights a Jounin who uses something similar to Lightning blade to smash a bolder and it moved at LS. Then the shinobi ranking system says he'd be below an anbu then Naruto can blitz the asura path which a Anbu couldn't react to.
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Idk if I agree with FTL+ SM Naruto. Given that KCM > SM, and excluding his body flicker technique, KCM Naruto was more or less very relative to lightning cloak Ay, who if you’re decently charitable with is like hovering around light speed. And idk if I really agree with FTL+ Luffy either given that Kizaru can be pretty competitive with Luffy and Kizaru just blatantly uses light speed attacks.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Idk if I agree with FTL+ SM Naruto. Given that KCM > SM, and excluding his body flicker technique, KCM Naruto was more or less very relative to lightning cloak Ay, who if you’re decently charitable with is like hovering around light speed. And idk if I really agree with FTL+ Luffy either given that Kizaru can be pretty competitive with Luffy and Kizaru just blatantly uses light speed attacks.
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Do you think there's a big difference between V1 and V2 lightning cloak?
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Do you think there's a big difference between V1 and V2 lightning cloak?
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Not really, at least not a beyond 10x speed amp. For 1) the lariat is the technique that’s got the light like speed/near light speed statement right, so it’s not even inherently that every single technique or movement he performs is light speed, and 2) if we are keeping with the more generous speed meta interpretations there’s a Minato light speed statement (Shadow has it, I translated it, it’s real, I think it’s probably hyperbolic but we’re presupposing that isn’t the case here), and given the whole Minato >= Ay narrative, it seems to be consistent that Ay would be closer to light speed than not.

Edit: that statement is for Hokage Minato too.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Not really, at least not a beyond 10x speed amp. For 1) the lariat is the technique that’s got the light like speed/near light speed statement right, so it’s not even inherently that every single technique or movement he performs is light speed, and 2) if we are keeping with the more generous speed meta interpretations there’s a Minato light speed statement (Shadow has it, I translated it, it’s real, I think it’s probably hyperbolic but we’re presupposing that isn’t the case here), and given the whole Minato >= Ay narrative, it seems to be consistent that Ay would be closer to light speed than not.

Edit: that statement is for Hokage Minato too.
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Are you saying LS = Minato~>V2 Ay>V1 Ay (w/Lariat)<~LS?

Also
Shadowbokunohero said:
.
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Can u send pls 🙏
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Are you saying LS = Minato~>V2 Ay>V1 Ay (w/Lariat)<~LS?
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I’m not going to make any specific claim on the exact specifics of Ay Minato scaling cuz I don’t think it’s relevant to my point. My point is that I don’t believe Ay being like 10x faster than Hokage Minato makes sense/is consistent or even implied by the story.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
All the more reason then for SM Naruto to not be FTL+ lol. Since it's Hokage Minato with that statement.
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I'd rather not make any concrete judgements without seeing the exact statement but I don't think SM Naruto is FTL anyways (I think he's probably around Relativistic)
 
MinatoSparkle said:
I'd rather not make any concrete judgements without seeing the exact statement but I don't think SM Naruto is FTL anyways (I think he's probably around Relativistic)
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The Yellow Flash of the Leaf

The absolutely inescapable light-speed blade, who fires off brilliant and radiant techniques on the battlefield. That dazzling title was once the common name of the Fourth Hokage.
 
Rewatching shppuden and NGL I hated to character during the kage summit. I know it made sense for his development but after pain arc which was so good it felt kinda.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
The Yellow Flash of the Leaf

The absolutely inescapable light-speed blade, who fires off brilliant and radiant techniques on the battlefield. That dazzling title was once the common name of the Fourth Hokage.
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Ehhh tbh I think you can interpret this as meaning Jonin Minato since it refers to his war time nickname and exploits during the 3rd War. Especially since it uses past tense pretty explicitly in the sentence calling him the Fourth Hokage.
 
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