- 10,788
- 16,052
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
- 621
- 302
Yeah but they mention 'power' of Jigen which makes me question if it shouldn't be discarded
the wiki uses that very line to say ishiki is stronger than Jigen
- 621
- 302
it's absolutely not a hyperbole, I can get thinking it's regarding the dojutsu but given Kishimoto's portrayal of power difference being highlighted it doesnt seem like hyperbole or flowery language, it straight up says he's a digit above jigen
whether its in power level or ability quality is to be decided
- 18,946
- 27,763
Power definitional refers to the capability to do something. “The American people hold the power to vote.” Being an example in which it doesn’t refer to raw AP. Another wiki pertinent example being our “Power & Ability Sections”, as in using power synonymously with abilities. So, when Koji talks about “Isshiki’s power is 10x better”, Isshiki’s power here is his Doujutsu abilities, as evident by the context.
- 2,282
- 1,337
I can't believe you don't see the flaw in your arguments. those jutsu you mentioned are literally abilities. I dare you to name the jutsu madara uses to distinguish clones from original or should we slap it on all sharingan users coz it is a trait?
Also my bad i used a basic rinnengan ability as an example. The point is seeing in time stop is an ability strictly to sasuke as it is not a basic rinnengan ability
- 621
- 302
I feel like it can be interpreted as power increase in a general sense, that makes more sense than just the ability shrinking faster
Right after that statement Koji uses a stronger jutsu intended to deal greater physical damage implying to us that it was about his overall power/ap
- 18,946
- 27,763
No it’s blatantly talking about the Doujutsu ability.
- 621
- 302
okay
what if one were to argue it's an overall 10x buff that resulted in the jutsu being more potent?
if hes abilities are 10x'd from increased chakra and power than his physicals should be 10x'd too no?
- 2,282
- 1,337
No UES so the idea can't even be entertained
- 1,665
- 1,014
I reread the chapters (47-48) and the feat reads:
Koji summoned the flames > Jigen attempts to Shrink the Flames > Jigen gets down to the last of Chakra and is unable to continue Shrinking the flames > Isshiki is reborn and Instantly shrinks the flames > Koji attempts some Jutsu and Isshiki Shrink those instantly > Koji makes the statement comparing him to Jigen.
Granted, if the same Statement was said in regards to say, EMS Sasuke’s Ama vs Itachi’s Ama, the conversation would be a debate on power still.
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
- 4,018
Naruto's clones are sentient tho iirc.
- 1,056
- 619
True I don't think you are wrong by your logical deduction, however, the idea that Tengai Shinsei would be ablaze if pulled from space assumes it follows the same physical laws as objects in the real world when we know in the Naruto universe, jutsu often defy real-world physics. Given Madara's control over the ability, it's more plausible that he manipulates it in a way that prevents ablation. (By the way just so you know, it is fine if it just summon, I just interpret differently)
- 1,665
- 1,014
There is no flaw, you’re still making a False Equivalency. The ability to see Chakra or have Pre-Cog innately, as in the case of the Sharingan, isn’t comparable to special techniques the Sharingan can produce. Again, your Ama’s, Susanoo’s, Tsuki’s, Koto’s, etc. THOSE are considered Jutsu.
Your argument is faulty because it is attempting to take the innate abilities of the Sharingan and say another Uchiha wouldn’t have the Pre-Cog or Chakra Vision BeCaUsE abilities like Koto or Kamui are unique to the individual that uses them. Like… bruh.
This is why I said you “would” have a point if it were a JUTSU, but it is not. Sasuke used no “Jutsu” or “Special Technique” when observing Momoshiki and Boruto and the only thing he said was he was able to know what happened because of his Rinnegan, nothing more. No different than him being able to see Limbo. It’s innate to the Rinnegan UNLESS you can prove it is a Special Technique, ala Limbo. Hell just Prove it’s a standard “Jutsu” like the Six Paths Techs and i’ll concede, but you can’t because that’s not stated or implied.
Irrelevant and you’re trying to deflect.
Except that’s not stated or implied. Sasuke attributes it to his Rinnegan. And if you want to argue how he could sense the TS still, I can argue it’s residual effect of having had the Rinnegan, using Madara as the example.
One argument is Baseless, the other is not…
- 1,056
- 619
Finally, we are on the 900th page, I love to see more interactions on this page. I hope more fans will join the wiki.
- 367
- 176
If you mean sentient as per just having awareness, then yes.
However, their personality is the exact copy of the original.
The hitoshinju each have unique personality/souls. They are similar to tailed beasts than juubi fissions.
If I'd rank sentience. Hitoshinju =/> Tailed Beast > Claw Grime =/> Juubi fissions.
- 621
- 302
tbh I'm more interested in AP since anything that multiplies jigen past 6x gets us to 5B again
UES shouldn't be relevant here since increased chakra should increase physicals regardless
- 1,665
- 1,014
- 621
- 302
this is true, it's always a weird thing to hear others say it's not from space because all other interpretations make 0 sense
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
- 4,018
Yes. The ability to sense and feel.
That's ego. Grimes don't have that. I was talking about the grimes. Grimes pretty much act exactly like the fission beings. The essence evolves them to have ego/personalities later, but that's separate from sentience.
- 1,665
- 1,014
Btw, when Naruto uses MSC and does the thing where he shifts his position amoung them… Is that FTE usage or is it Limited Spatial Manipulation? 
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
- 4,018
Mizuki: "I stand as a one-man army, tall and unyielding amidst my enemies. They rally their allies, plotting to bring me down, but they do not realize—I am a one-man army, and I stand tall amidst them all."My Prescience is flaring up… I see your future now:
- 621
- 302
what does this even meanBtw, when Naruto uses MSC and does the thing where he shifts his position amoung them… Is that FTE usage or is it Limited Spatial Manipulation?
- 1,665
- 1,014
You know how sometimes when Naruto uses Multi-Shadow Clones but “somehow” he isn’t in the position of the one who created them anymore (Did it against Neji, Kakuzu, & Kaguya)?
Is him switching his position among the Clones FTE usage (Ala Substitution) or is it Limited Spatial Manipulation?
Godernet
He/Him- 2,752
- 3,667
it wouldn't make them 5B,
it wouldn't even make them much stronger than they are now.
also consistency > fishing for upgrades
- 621
- 302
I just had an idea,Was this statement used for upgrades before?
"In an instant, it's being reduced...! The power is an order of magnitude greater than Jigen's...!"
~ Boruto NNG #48
Supported by this and ChatGPT
Compared to Jigen's shrinking this felt instantaneous, so much so the writers wrote down words that straight up translate to 10x
Could this be used to say
Isshiki's Jutsu Speed is 10x Faster than Jigen's Jutsu Speed
Naruto dodges Isshiki's Jutsu and goes back to pluck it up to strike down the other rods
Isshiki who should be able to perceive his own jutsu's speed fails to perceive Naruto
Naruto's Supermassive Rasengan was so fast Isshiki was unable to shrink it in time and as a result got blasted away from it
So naruto's speed in BM should be 10x Jigen's speed
what do you guys think?
- 367
- 176
Not disputing that they are similar to fission beings.
However, Code is still the one that created them with claw marks. That creation process can't be logically achieved if claw marks were simply portals.
- 18,946
- 27,763
Naw I’m not entirely discrediting him pulling it either, I think it’s a fine highball for the feat. But we do quantify the feat assuming it abides by irl physics (KE = 1/2 mv^2) so I find it slightly misleading when we pick and choose which physics we abide by and which physics we dismiss. If it doesn’t abide by irl physics, who’s to say we can quantify it using normal KE?
- 621
- 302
I think it's just him being super fast, if it was the latter we would probably get a databook entry explaining that
- 11,753
- 16,168
It's definitely not the latter lmao. It's just a skill/stealth feat. Which, I guess, is technically what Substitution is, sooooo you could chalk it up to that.
- 4,500
- 5,115
Is something wrong with the site rn?
- 31,401
- 27,695
So much.
- 747
- 1,097
He's dumb
Kawaki doing that to Naruto and Hinata is likely gonna be his smartest moment in the series
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
- 4,018
Puberty or sumn idk.
- 4,500
- 5,115
There seems to be issues with the site fr though
When I try to view some profiles it does the whole white screen thing and like "'we moved forums" shit
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
- 4,018
Did no one tell you?
- 621
- 302
