Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[OneBleachHurricane]

Ameno

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Obviously it's just Ablazed but with a T instead of a Z ~ Trust Me

More or less yeah. That’s why I mentioned ablazed lol in case people didn’t know what ablating was.

 

[karo_senpaii]

That is not the case at all. By all means, prove it is a jutsu. Was the ability to see Limbo a “Jutsu” too? This is an irritating argument because it’s draws a false equivalence to ACTUAL Rinnegan Jutsu (Six Paths Jutsu, Limbo, Ameno, etc etc).

It does not have to be named to be a jutsu come on. Yes, seeing limbo is an ability. It's why we index it as such. But let me go further. Madara could not absorb amaterasu when he lost his rinnengan but sasuke could still feel and sense momo exactly as when he had his rinnengan. That's further indication that it is specific to him

 

[DarkEmperor25]

Like literally, the closest comp we have is the ability to “See” Madara’s Limbo’s in their Dimension. It wasn’t just specific to his Rinnegan eyes. It’s an inherent quality for the Rinnegan in-general.

Sasuke’s Statement.

Madara’s Statement.

Sasuke could feel time stopped, even after losing the Rinnegan, he seems to have some degree of resistance, but to see through time stopped he could only do so with the Rinnegan.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Arc out here making me google what "ablated" means

arc and deceived regularly update my vocabulary

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Sasuke could feel time stopped, even after losing the Rinnegan, he seems to have some degree of resistance, but to see through time stopped he could only do so with the Rinnegan.

I’m not surprised as he’s had the Rinnegan for Decades by that point. Possible risidual effect? Perhaps, but either way, the Rinnegan still is inherent in that ability to see through TS.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Was this statement used for upgrades before?

"In an instant, it's being reduced...! The power is an order of magnitude greater than Jigen's...!"

~ Boruto NNG #48

Supported by this and ChatGPT

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

It does not have to be named to be a jutsu come on.

It’s not jutsu, period. For example, the Sharingan’s Pre-Cog or ability to see Chakra are not “Jutsu”. They are inherent qualities of the Sharingan. “Jutsu” in this case, would be Koto, Tsuki, Susanoo, Kamui, etc.

So yes, you are drawing a false equivalence when you attempt to assert inherent qualities are “Jutsu” here. It is not.

Yes, seeing limbo is an ability. It's why we index it as such. But let me go further. Madara could not absorb amaterasu when he lost his rinnengan.

Except we literally see him do just that as well as Absorb Nine-Tails Chakra. You point is invalid.

but sasuke could still feel and sense momo exactly as when he had his rinnengan.

Via Madara’s example, we know doujutsu abilities are not erased from the user’s catalog of abilities, just diminished. He had no Rinnegan but was still SHOWN using a diminished version of Preta. You literally have no standing here and I suggest you reread those parts of the war arc before continuing.

That's further indication that it is specific to him

Wrong. Read above.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Was this statement used for upgrades before?

"In an instant, it's being reduced...! The power is an order of magnitude greater than Jigen's...!"

~ Boruto NNG #48

Supported by this

Ngl that kinda just seems like a hyperbole of sorts at first glance.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Was this statement used for upgrades before?

"In an instant, it's being reduced...! The power is an order of magnitude greater than Jigen's...!"

~ Boruto NNG #48

Supported by this

He’s talking about Isshiki’s Doujutsu being 10x better than when Jigen used it. That has nothing to do with a stat amp.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

arc and deceived regularly update my vocabulary

Everyone when Arc and Deceived use big words and looking them up

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

He’s talking about Isshiki’s Doujutsu being 10x better than when Jigen used it. That has nothing to do with a stat amp.

Yeah but they mention 'power' of Jigen which makes me question if it shouldn't be discarded

the wiki uses that very line to say ishiki is stronger than Jigen

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Ngl that kinda just seems like a hyperbole of sorts at first glance.

it's absolutely not a hyperbole, I can get thinking it's regarding the dojutsu but given Kishimoto's portrayal of power difference being highlighted it doesnt seem like hyperbole or flowery language, it straight up says he's a digit above jigen

whether its in power level or ability quality is to be decided

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah but they mention 'power' of Jigen which makes me question if it shouldn't be discarded

Power definitional refers to the capability to do something. “The American people hold the power to vote.” Being an example in which it doesn’t refer to raw AP. Another wiki pertinent example being our “Power & Ability Sections”, as in using power synonymously with abilities. So, when Koji talks about “Isshiki’s power is 10x better”, Isshiki’s power here is his Doujutsu abilities, as evident by the context.

 

[karo_senpaii]

It’s not jutsu, period. For example, the Sharingan’s Pre-Cog or ability to see Chakra are not “Jutsu”. They are inherent qualities of the Sharingan. “Jutsu” in this case, would be Koto, Tsuki, Susanoo, Kamui, etc.

So yes, you are drawing a false equivalence when you attempt to assert inherent qualities are “Jutsu” here. It is not.


Except we literally see him do just that as well as Absorb Nine-Tails Chakra. You point is invalid.

Via Madara’s example, we know doujutsu abilities are not erased from the user’s catalog of abilities, just diminished. He had no Rinnegan but was still SHOWN using a diminished version of Preta. You literally have no standing here and I suggest you reread those parts of the war arc before continuing.

Wrong. Read above.

I can't believe you don't see the flaw in your arguments. those jutsu you mentioned are literally abilities. I dare you to name the jutsu madara uses to distinguish clones from original or should we slap it on all sharingan users coz it is a trait?

Also my bad i used a basic rinnengan ability as an example. The point is seeing in time stop is an ability strictly to sasuke as it is not a basic rinnengan ability

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Power definitional refers to the capability to do something. “The American people hold the power to vote.” Being an example in which it doesn’t refer to raw AP. Another wiki pertinent example being our “Power & Ability Sections”, as in using power synonymously with abilities. So, when Koji talks about “Isshiki’s power is 10x better”, Isshiki’s power here is his Doujutsu abilities, as evident by the context.

I feel like it can be interpreted as power increase in a general sense, that makes more sense than just the ability shrinking faster


Right after that statement Koji uses a stronger jutsu intended to deal greater physical damage implying to us that it was about his overall power/ap

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I feel like it can be interpreted as power increase in a general sense, that makes more sense than just the ability shrinking faster


Right after that statement Koji uses a stronger jutsu intended to deal greater physical damage implying to us that it was about his overall power/ap

No it’s blatantly talking about the Doujutsu ability.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

No it’s blatantly talking about the Doujutsu ability.

okay
what if one were to argue it's an overall 10x buff that resulted in the jutsu being more potent?
if hes abilities are 10x'd from increased chakra and power than his physicals should be 10x'd too no?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Good luck proving that since Koji’s statement doesn’t entail that at all

 

[karo_senpaii]

okay
what if one were to argue it's an overall 10x buff that resulted in the jutsu being more potent?
if hes abilities are 10x'd from increased chakra and power than his physicals should be 10x'd too no?

No UES so the idea can't even be entertained

 

[Godernet]

10x Jigen stuff probably isn't happening again,

And it is definitely not getting applied as a linear buff to speed.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

He’s talking about Isshiki’s Doujutsu being 10x better than when Jigen used it. That has nothing to do with a stat amp.

I reread the chapters (47-48) and the feat reads:

Koji summoned the flames > Jigen attempts to Shrink the Flames > Jigen gets down to the last of Chakra and is unable to continue Shrinking the flames > Isshiki is reborn and Instantly shrinks the flames > Koji attempts some Jutsu and Isshiki Shrink those instantly > Koji makes the statement comparing him to Jigen.

Granted, if the same Statement was said in regards to say, EMS Sasuke’s Ama vs Itachi’s Ama, the conversation would be a debate on power still.

 

[HelloThere1089]

The WA ten tail pieces are not sentient. They're part of the Juubi, similar like clones to Naruto

Naruto's clones are sentient tho iirc.

 

[Samlex1234]

How do you reconcile it not being ablated? For if it was pulled from space it would be lit ablaze upon entering the atmosphere.

True I don't think you are wrong by your logical deduction, however, the idea that Tengai Shinsei would be ablaze if pulled from space assumes it follows the same physical laws as objects in the real world when we know in the Naruto universe, jutsu often defy real-world physics. Given Madara's control over the ability, it's more plausible that he manipulates it in a way that prevents ablation. (By the way just so you know, it is fine if it just summon, I just interpret differently)

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

I can't believe you don't see the flaw in your arguments. those jutsu you mentioned are literally abilities.

There is no flaw, you’re still making a False Equivalency. The ability to see Chakra or have Pre-Cog innately, as in the case of the Sharingan, isn’t comparable to special techniques the Sharingan can produce. Again, your Ama’s, Susanoo’s, Tsuki’s, Koto’s, etc. THOSE are considered Jutsu.

Your argument is faulty because it is attempting to take the innate abilities of the Sharingan and say another Uchiha wouldn’t have the Pre-Cog or Chakra Vision BeCaUsE abilities like Koto or Kamui are unique to the individual that uses them. Like… bruh. This is why I said you “would” have a point if it were a JUTSU, but it is not.

Sasuke used no “Jutsu” or “Special Technique” when observing Momoshiki and Boruto and the only thing he said was he was able to know what happened because of his Rinnegan, nothing more. No different than him being able to see Limbo. It’s innate to the Rinnegan UNLESS you can prove it is a Special Technique, ala Limbo. Hell just Prove it’s a standard “Jutsu” like the Six Paths Techs and i’ll concede, but you can’t because that’s not stated or implied.

I dare you to name the jutsu madara uses to distinguish clones from original or should we slap it on all sharingan users coz it is a trait?

Irrelevant and you’re trying to deflect.

Also my bad i used a basic rinnengan ability as an example. The point is seeing in time stop is an ability strictly to sasuke as it is not a basic rinnengan ability

Except that’s not stated or implied. Sasuke attributes it to his Rinnegan. And if you want to argue how he could sense the TS still, I can argue it’s residual effect of having had the Rinnegan, using Madara as the example.

One argument is Baseless, the other is not…

 

[Samlex1234]

Finally, we are on the 900th page, I love to see more interactions on this page. I hope more fans will join the wiki.

 

[Kayzz]

Naruto's clones are sentient tho iirc.

If you mean sentient as per just having awareness, then yes.
However, their personality is the exact copy of the original.

The hitoshinju each have unique personality/souls. They are similar to tailed beasts than juubi fissions.

If I'd rank sentience. Hitoshinju =/> Tailed Beast > Claw Grime =/> Juubi fissions.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

10x Jigen stuff probably isn't happening again,

And it is definitely not getting applied as a linear buff to speed.

tbh I'm more interested in AP since anything that multiplies jigen past 6x gets us to 5B again

No UES so the idea can't even be entertained

UES shouldn't be relevant here since increased chakra should increase physicals regardless

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

tbh I'm more interested in AP since anything that multiplies jigen past 6x gets us to 5B again

UES shouldn't be relevant here since increased chakra should increase physicals regardless

My Prescience is flaring up… I see your future now:

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

True I don't think you are wrong by your logical deduction, however, the idea that Tengai Shinsei would be ablaze if pulled from space assumes it follows the same physical laws as objects in the real world when we know in the Naruto universe, jutsu often defy real-world physics. Given Madara's control over the ability, it's more plausible that he manipulates it in a way that prevents ablation. (By the way just so you know, it is fine if it just summon, I just interpret differently)

this is true, it's always a weird thing to hear others say it's not from space because all other interpretations make 0 sense

 

[HelloThere1089]

If you mean sentient as per just having awareness, then yes.

Yes. The ability to sense and feel.

However, their personality is the exact copy of the original.

The hitoshinju each have unique personality/souls. They are similar to tailed beasts than juubi fissions.

That's ego. Grimes don't have that. I was talking about the grimes. Grimes pretty much act exactly like the fission beings. The essence evolves them to have ego/personalities later, but that's separate from sentience.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Btw, when Naruto uses MSC and does the thing where he shifts his position amoung them… Is that FTE usage or is it Limited Spatial Manipulation?

 

[HelloThere1089]

My Prescience is flaring up… I see your future now:

Mizuki: "I stand as a one-man army, tall and unyielding amidst my enemies. They rally their allies, plotting to bring me down, but they do not realize—I am a one-man army, and I stand tall amidst them all."

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Btw, when Naruto uses MSC and does the thing where he shifts his position amoung them… Is that FTE usage or is it Limited Spatial Manipulation?

what does this even mean

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

what does this even mean

You know how sometimes when Naruto uses Multi-Shadow Clones but “somehow” he isn’t in the position of the one who created them anymore (Did it against Neji, Kakuzu, & Kaguya)?

Is him switching his position among the Clones FTE usage (Ala Substitution) or is it Limited Spatial Manipulation?

 

[Godernet]

tbh I'm more interested in AP since anything that multiplies jigen past 6x gets us to 5B again

it wouldn't make them 5B,

it wouldn't even make them much stronger than they are now.

also consistency > fishing for upgrades

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Was this statement used for upgrades before?

"In an instant, it's being reduced...! The power is an order of magnitude greater than Jigen's...!"

~ Boruto NNG #48

Supported by this and ChatGPT

I just had an idea,
Compared to Jigen's shrinking this felt instantaneous, so much so the writers wrote down words that straight up translate to 10x
Could this be used to say

Isshiki's Jutsu Speed is 10x Faster than Jigen's Jutsu Speed

Naruto dodges Isshiki's Jutsu and goes back to pluck it up to strike down the other rods

Isshiki who should be able to perceive his own jutsu's speed fails to perceive Naruto

Naruto's Supermassive Rasengan was so fast Isshiki was unable to shrink it in time and as a result got blasted away from it

So naruto's speed in BM should be 10x Jigen's speed


what do you guys think?

 

[Kayzz]

Yes. The ability to sense and feel.


That's ego. Grimes don't have that. I was talking about the grimes. Grimes pretty much act exactly like the fission beings. The essence evolves them to have ego/personalities later, but that's separate from sentience.

Not disputing that they are similar to fission beings.

However, Code is still the one that created them with claw marks. That creation process can't be logically achieved if claw marks were simply portals.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

True I don't think you are wrong by your logical deduction, however, the idea that Tengai Shinsei would be ablaze if pulled from space assumes it follows the same physical laws as objects in the real world when we know in the Naruto universe, jutsu often defy real-world physics. Given Madara's control over the ability, it's more plausible that he manipulates it in a way that prevents ablation. (By the way just so you know, it is fine if it just summon, I just interpret differently)

Naw I’m not entirely discrediting him pulling it either, I think it’s a fine highball for the feat. But we do quantify the feat assuming it abides by irl physics (KE = 1/2 mv^2) so I find it slightly misleading when we pick and choose which physics we abide by and which physics we dismiss. If it doesn’t abide by irl physics, who’s to say we can quantify it using normal KE?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

You know how sometimes when Naruto uses Multi-Shadow Clones but “somehow” he isn’t in the position of the one who created them anymore (Did it against Neji, Kakuzu, & Kaguya)?

Is him switching his position among the Clones FTE usage (Ala Substitution) or is it Limited Spatial Manipulation?

I think it's just him being super fast, if it was the latter we would probably get a databook entry explaining that