• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Screenshot_20240703-222218_Instagram.jpg
This is positively based
 
10. Kushina (stated above KCM Naruto, blitzed 50% Kurama who's faster than WA SM Naruto and probably KCM1 Naruto, restrained 100% Kurama)
9. Hamura chakra Hinata (refilled TL Naruto's chakra supply, idk should be vaguely Six Paths level otherwise cause of Hamura's chakra too)
8. Sakura (more chakra than a SPSM clone, reacted to and harmed IT Kaguya, refilled TL Naruto's chakra, can fight Shin who slightly scales to Naruto and Sasuke)
7. Kurotuschi (somewhat near Kinshiki, should be above Sakura as the Kage are stated to be the best ninja to fight the Otsutsuki and are called the strongest of this age)
6. Kaguya (just Kaguya. Should be around Kinshiki's level who's above the BE Kage individually)
4/5. Sarada/Delta (Sarada has better feats, but Delta has more consistent and definitive scaling)
3. Himawari (tentative position, could be a little higher or lower, as her pushing Jura to test out his true power is pretty vague)
2. Eida (stated to be superior to Jigen, although her position is a bit debatable as she supposedly doesn't specialize in combat)
1. Matsuri (pretty obvious, far above Code and pressured Boruto who's a contender for strongest in the verse atm)
I'm not saying you're wrong or anything but you have a, ehm, unique way of scaling inverse Naruto
 
@MinatoSparkle based on the current info, wouldn't Sarada be above Ada? There is nothing that scales Ada above current WK Code iirc. I agree about Himawari being vague which is why I left her out of my rankings. Idk about Hinata tho. Pretty shaky.
 
That's...not how sensing chakra works. We know that Bijuu chakra only flares up when a jinchuriki releases their power, that's why Naruto is only sensed as having above Kakashi/Zabuza level chakra when he goes KM0 and not passively, or like when Neji only saw a huge amount of chakra in Naruto when he unleashed some Kurama chakra, why Sasuke only saw a bunch of chakra at VOTE1 when he released Kurama chakra, etc. Kakashi was just sensing PT Gaara's power level, not full Shukaku's.
I mean, isn't Bijuu chakra supposed to feel different from human chakra? And Kakashi would thus, like I said, be able to tell Gaara had more than just his own chakra going on up there?
It's arbitrary unless it's a certain level. Anyone could be fatigued to any level. If Rinnegan Sasuke was at pretty much zero chakra, he could be like genin level, so in that situation saying "I may have been fatigued but I'm still Sasuke" is a statement with no real meaning. The statement's clearly comparing the Sound 4 to jonin level.
Not really. A fatigued Jonin is still strong, but that doesn't mean a Jonin with no chakra, who is injured and fatigued is still Jonin level.
Beyond the work of shinobi but fodder to you? Idk about that
Yes? They nearly killed them in a 4.5v2
They are generally considered the most elite ninja, so surely above chunin level on average
One would think that.
 
@MinatoSparkle based on the current info, wouldn't Sarada be above Ada? There is nothing that scales Ada above current WK Code iirc. I agree about Himawari being vague which is why I left her out of my rankings. Idk about Hinata tho. Pretty shaky.
You could say so, it did seem presented that Boruto saved Sarada from Code though, which would be weird if she's stronger than him in just 3T. Might just be that Hidari has poor control of his powers and not that Sarada's truly on his level
I mean, isn't Bijuu chakra supposed to feel different from human chakra? And Kakashi would thus, like I said, be able to tell Gaara had more than just his own chakra going on up there?
He could tell it was weird chakra, but there's no indication of him suspecting a Bijuu. Afaik, P1 Kakashi's knowledge on Bijuu stuff is just unknown other than him obviously knowing Kurama's in Naruto. Even the Kakashi POV section of the fanbook summarizing the events of the story indicated that he didn't know about Shukaku, and basically says the A rankness of the mission was just due to the possibility of battling Gaara, nothing beyond.
Not really. A fatigued Jonin is still strong, but that doesn't mean a Jonin with no chakra, who is injured and fatigued is still Jonin level.
Considering that statement was directly connected to him saying a squad of jonin is needed for backup, the correlation does pretty strongly suggest they're jonin level. Also they weren't injured prior to the fight.
Yes? They nearly killed them in a 4.5v2
Nearly killed is being very generous, the S4 were just scuffed, not even bloodied, and even in CM1, Sakon could match Genma. In fact, considering the fight started with the S4 in CM1, that might be a big part of why they're roughed up, and they only went CM2 when they were pressed.

Also, they were even considering risking a fight with Kakashi, a FP elite jonin.
One would think that.
And it is true, even if they're just used as a measuring stick most of the time.
 
You could say so, it did seem presented that Boruto saved Sarada from Code though, which would be weird if she's stronger than him in just 3T. Might just be that Hidari has poor control of his powers and not that Sarada's truly on his level
Poor control or not, Hidari is considered above Code in his current condition. I would mention that She's above Hidari because of Chidori. We don't know about her usual stats. But I think Ada has nothing except maybe flight to counter that. So that's why I put Sarada above Ada.
 
Poor control or not, Hidari is considered above Code in his current condition. I would mention that She's above Hidari because of Chidori. We don't know about her usual stats. But I think Ada has nothing except maybe flight to counter that. So that's why I put Sarada above Ada.
It could mean he fluctuates though, but that's fair. Eida's hax might be a better tool than her stats though.
 
It could mean he fluctuates though, but that's fair. Eida's hax might be a better tool than her stats though.
I mean tbh Ada is a wild card. She legitimately can whip out a new hax and we can't even question it. So I guess I could put her above Sarada based on that and the general optics. I just don't usually use that kind of logic.
 
Is Kakashi really the youngest ever genin, chunin, and jonin? Kakashi, Minato, and Itachi really are the holy trinity of speedrunning ranks.
 
After making my top 10 list, I watched the Kaguya episodes again. Does she even have that good of a regen? Her regen is a lot slower than Madara or Obito if she even has any.
she's a Bijuu so yeah, her regen would be above a Jinchuuriki's
She did regrow her arm after her transformation but then we don't really see her regenerate after that.
the only damage she takes afterward is Kamui Raikiri and she's sealed seconds later.
I don't get why Naruto didn't aim for the head when he chopped her arm off.
Naruto doesn't really aim to cut off peoples heads in general, not to mention he mainly aimed for her arm because it was Zetsu on Kaguya's arm trash-talking Obito.
It's pretty confusing. Why did Hags say that the only way to defeat her is to seal her if Naruto could just chop her head off?
Because none of them have the AP to damage her much and even if they could she would regen.

the only times anyone damages Kaguya is a mental amped Naruto and a Kamui Raikiri from DMS Kakashi, and in Naruto's case, she was extremely low on chakra.
Naruto not just chopping her head implies she might be able to regrow her head but this argument can be used in Boruto too since Jigen doesn't aim for the head.
Naruto not chopping off her head doesn't imply anything.

  • It's not in character for him.
  • He wasn't able to damage her for 99% of the fight, even with his stated strongest ninjutsu.
  • his only successful attack was aimed at Black Zetsu on Kaguya's arm, while he was pissed because Zetsu was being a goon.
 
I wish Naruto would’ve used the other Biju Rasenshuriken individually. Like the 2 tails or magnet style Rasenshuriken would be hella cool

Seems like the lava one is his go to though
 
I already agreed above that Kaguya prolly has better regen than edo tensei, but aight.
she's a Bijuu so yeah, her regen would be above a Jinchuuriki's
This would make sense yeah. But can you send me a scan of her being a bijuu herself? I always thought of her as being similar to Madara and Obito in that aspect.
the only damage she takes afterward is Kamui Raikiri and she's sealed seconds later.
Yeah. Which is why I said we don't really see her regenerate after her transformation. I never disagreed on this point.
Naruto doesn't really aim to cut off peoples heads in general, not to mention he mainly aimed for her arm because it was Zetsu on Kaguya's arm trash-talking Obito.
Second reason makes sense.
Because none of them have the AP to damage her much and even if they could she would regen.

the only times anyone damages Kaguya is a mental amped Naruto and a Kamui Raikiri from DMS Kakashi, and in Naruto's case, she was extremely low on chakra.
Is it really mental amped Naruto? Didn't he focus chakra in his hand or sumn. If that was so out of his abilities wouldn't he show some sort of surprise? He seemed pretty nonchalant about the fact that he cut off a character's arm that he couldn't even scratch before. That makes me think he expected to cut off her arm with a specific jutsu. Your second reason makes more sense to me.
 
I already agreed above that Kaguya prolly has better regen than edo tensei, but aight.
Mb then
This would make sense yeah. But can you send me a scan of her being a bijuu herself? I always thought of her as being similar to Madara and Obito in that aspect.
Nah she’s called the literal Ten-Tails a few times so she’s a bit different from just being a jinchuuriki,
Yeah. Which is why I said we don't really see her regenerate after her transformation. I never disagreed on this point.
Mhm
Is it really mental amped Naruto? Didn't he focus chakra in his hand or sumn. If that was so out of his abilities wouldn't he show some sort of surprise? He seemed pretty nonchalant about the fact that he cut off a character's arm that he couldn't even scratch before. That makes me think he expected to cut off her arm with a specific jutsu. Your second reason makes more sense to me.
I mean he and others have used mental amps before, it’s a mechanic of the power system, Haku first explains it to him when he “fights for someone or something he cares about he’ll have power beyond his normal capabilities, he even thinks about this during his fight with Gaara before releasing a huge amount of chakra that he’s not normally able to use.

So no Naruto wouldn’t be surprised about something he’s experienced before. And it’s not like it’s a hypothetical amp, he goes from not being able to damage her even when she’s off guard or using Boil Release to being able to cut off her arm in that moment, even seconds after he does hurt her he goes back to doing 0 damage when he drops 9 Rasenshurikens on her head that don’t do anything.
 
He could tell it was weird chakra, but there's no indication of him suspecting a Bijuu. Afaik, P1 Kakashi's knowledge on Bijuu stuff is just unknown other than him obviously knowing Kurama's in Naruto.
He also knows about Isobu.
Even the Kakashi POV section of the fanbook summarizing the events of the story indicated that he didn't know about Shukaku, and basically says the A rankness of the mission was just due to the possibility of battling Gaara, nothing beyond.
Yeah, and in there, he specifically states Gaara most likely has hidden powers.
Considering that statement was directly connected to him saying a squad of jonin is needed for backup, the correlation does pretty strongly suggest they're jonin level. Also they weren't injured prior to the fight.
"Beyond the work of Shinobi" doesn't even mean anything, anyway, it's clearly just stating their power is weird and wacky, unless we're meant to believe they're above Hiruzen.
Nearly killed is being very generous, the S4 were just scuffed, not even bloodied,
Yes, but Kidomaru notes that if they hadn't gone all-out, they would have died.
That is a Kunai being thrown by an arm clashing with a single Senbon being spit from Genma's mouth to counter it.
In fact, considering the fight started with the S4 in CM1, that might be a big part of why they're roughed up, and they only went CM2 when they were pressed.

Also, they were even considering risking a fight with Kakashi, a FP elite jonin.
Bro, Kakashi would have slaughtered them. They're overconfident.
 
After making my top 10 list, I watched the Kaguya episodes again. Does she even have that good of a regen? Her regen is a lot slower than Madara or Obito if she even has any. She did regrow her arm after her transformation but then we don't really see her regenerate after that. I don't get why Naruto didn't aim for the head when he chopped her arm off. It's pretty confusing. Why did Hags say that the only way to defeat her is to seal her if Naruto could just chop her head off?

The way I see it:
  1. Pre transformation Kaguya has no regeneration.
  2. Post transformation Kaguya can regrow limbs but we don't know how fast.
  3. Naruto not just chopping her head implies she might be able to regrow her head but this argument can be used in Boruto too since Jigen doesn't aim for the head.
Based on all of this, Kaguya might go down the list. It would be great if anyone could clarify this for me.
  • Regeneration consumes a massive amount of chakra. (Stated many times in-verse)
  • Kaguya's body requires more chakra than Juubidara's to form.
  • Kaguya was running low on chakra by the time Naruto cut her arm off, so it would take a while before it reforms. However, she can speed up the process by absorbing chakra from IT victims.
  • Statements from Victor who grew his head back makes it clear that Juubi Jin (and Shinju) regeneration is better. Kaguya became one with the Juubi, better than other Juubi Jins.
 
Last edited:
Weren't the TWO Special Jonin who stalemated ALL FOUR members of the Sound 4 ( who had to go all out ) literally at 0% chakra and exhausted from having just come back from a mission lmfao
No, you don't get it, they didn't say "since we got tired, we are now Chunin," so they must have still been at full power!
 
He also knows about Isobu.
From where?
Yeah, and in there, he specifically states Gaara most likely has hidden powers.
From his battle in the forest where he was already partially transformed sure. And no it's not about his official match, that was covered in the previous page, meaning he only got this knowledge after assigning the A rank mission. Heck it even says Kakashi thought Sasuke would stalemate Gaara who he thought was A rank worthy, so if you're generous you could even argue CE CM1 Sasuke being borderline jonin level (at least with Chidori), letalone the CM2 S4.
"Beyond the work of Shinobi" doesn't even mean anything, anyway, it's clearly just stating their power is weird and wacky, unless we're meant to believe they're above Hiruzen.
He follows this up by saying you'll die if you fight them so clearly he meant power too and not just weirdness. He can just be basing on his experience, which doesn't include fights with Kage level people.
Yes, but Kidomaru notes that if they hadn't gone all-out, they would have died.
Fatigued Genma and Raido>CM1 S4 doesn't mean Fatigued Genma and Raido~CM2 S4, CM1 to CM2 is a HUGE difference
That is a Kunai being thrown by an arm clashing with a single Senbon being spit from Genma's mouth to counter it.
Considering it's infusing a weapon that's fodder on its own with chakra either way I don't think the method is that crucial.
Bro, Kakashi would have slaughtered them. They're overconfident.
I agree, I'm saying that even thought they don't know his full capabilities, they know he's an elite jonin. So they think that as a group they might be able to take on a high level jonin, and 4 chunin level characters absolutely wouldn't be able to do that. There are just so many avenues of getting the S4 to jonin level it's ridiculous to say them being low-mid jonin level isn't at least plausible.

Also Anbu point still stands. Base Kidomaru reacted to and tagged multiple people of the most elite rank of ninja.
Weren't the TWO Special Jonin who stalemated ALL FOUR members of the Sound 4 ( who had to go all out ) literally at 0% chakra and exhausted from having just come back from a mission lmfao
1. Genma is a stronger jonin even if he's officially a special jonin
Genma is able to fight Baki and Kabuto alongside Kakashi and Guy, Kabuto/Kakashi/Guy being Peak Jonin-Low Kage level, and Baki being the commander of the Sand combat unit, one of the strongest sand jonin, and superior to Hayate who's one of Konoha's best ninja, so idk still seems like Genma's mid-high jonin level. Might just be that him being a special jonin is cause his combat ability is jonin level but he lacks in some other aspect of being a jonin that we don't know of.
2. They did not stalemate whatsoever. That's like calling Jiraiya vs Pain a stalemate cause he beat 3 Paths and pressed Pain to use all 6
3. They definitely weren't at 0 chakra since they're still conscious and able to fight, but low
No, you don't get it, they didn't say "since we got tired, we are now Chunin," so they must have still been at full power!
🗿
 
From where?
Where would Kakashi know about the Three-Tails from? Well, I'm pretty sure they explained his backstory to him.
From his battle in the forest where he was already partially transformed sure. And no it's not about his official match, that was covered in the previous page, meaning he only got this knowledge after assigning the A rank mission. Heck it even says Kakashi thought Sasuke would stalemate Gaara who he thought was A rank worthy, so if you're generous you could even argue CE CM1 Sasuke being borderline jonin level (at least with Chidori), letalone the CM2 S4.
He says the mission itself was A-Rank. He says Gaara probably has powers still unknown to them. Kankuro hadn't revealed his abilities yet, so he was a wild card. Temari... was also there. There were enemies everywhere, including the stadium they started in.

Besides, A-Rank doesn't mean it would be difficult for a Jonin, fighting the Demon Brothers alone was enough to make the LoW mission a B-Rank iirc, and those guys aren't even low Chunin.
He follows this up by saying you'll die if you fight them so clearly he meant power too and not just weirdness. He can just be basing on his experience, which doesn't include fights with Kage level people.
Who was he saying this to?
Fatigued Genma and Raido>CM1 S4 doesn't mean Fatigued Genma and Raido~CM2 S4, CM1 to CM2 is a HUGE difference
It's a 10x chakra multiplier, but the difference from 0% to 100% chakra is a much higher difference.
Considering it's infusing a weapon that's fodder on its own with chakra either way I don't think the method is that crucial.
When did he infuse it with chakra?
I agree, I'm saying that even thought they don't know his full capabilities, they know he's an elite jonin. So they think that as a group they might be able to take on a high level jonin, and 4 chunin level characters absolutely wouldn't be able to do that. There are just so many avenues of getting the S4 to jonin level it's ridiculous to say them being low-mid jonin level isn't at least plausible.
I don't think they know how strong a high level Jonin is. Besides, weren't they talking about a surprise attack?
 
id say prior to the war arc, with notable exceptions i always felt it was entirely possible for there to be really insane shinobi across all the villages but once we got the war arc and we finally saw all the other villages in action it was pretty decisive that the scales of power were heavily disproportional between the leaf and everyone else, sure some of them have their own Sasori of the red sand/ gold and silver brothers and other high profile ninja but for everyone of those theres like 10 leaf equivalents who arnt even the strongest ninjas of their time lol. and yeah i get that in the war arc its not entirely realistic to get to explore the long history of shinobi from a single village with one or two fights, and it makes double sense that the leaf would get explored the most given its the focus point of the series. but i think in situations like these having the characters interact with more of the other villagers before the war would have gone a long way in exploring them a bit more+ building up the pay off of them uniting.
which is something we prob would have gotten very early on in the series if not for the editors but ay.. just yapping here
 
id say prior to the war arc, with notable exceptions i always felt it was entirely possible for there to be really insane shinobi across all the villages but once we got the war arc and we finally saw all the other villages in action it was pretty decisive that the scales of power were heavily disproportional between the leaf and everyone else, sure some of them have their own Sasori of the red sand/ gold and silver brothers and other high profile ninja but for everyone of those theres like 10 leaf equivalents who arnt even the strongest ninjas of their time lol. and yeah i get that in the war arc its not entirely realistic to get to explore the long history of shinobi from a single village with one or two fights, and it makes double sense that the leaf would get explored the most given its the focus point of the series. but i think in situations like these having the characters interact with more of the other villagers before the war would have gone a long way in exploring them a bit more+ building up the pay off of them uniting.
which is something we prob would have gotten very early on in the series if not for the editors but ay.. just yapping here
Honestly, Naruto should've been a thousand chapters. Not only could we get more powerful Shinobi from the other Villages, I also think we should've gotten detailed Hagoromo, Hamura, Ashura, and Indra backstories at some point, maybe partially from the Elder Toad during the Myoboku training(just some vague foreshadowing, like he was the greatest sage, the two had met, he traveled with his brother, and something they were fighting had put the world in danger).

Hell, there are so many characters I would have loved to see more of. For all the hype he got, we know so little about how Hashirama got so powerful. Is he a Slug Sage, or can Senju just do that? And on that note, what about Madara? What's his MS doing? Is it actually the time thing? Izuna's, too.
 
Poor control or not, Hidari is considered above Code in his current condition. I would mention that She's above Hidari because of Chidori. We don't know about her usual stats. But I think Ada has nothing except maybe flight to counter that. So that's why I put Sarada above Ada.
Poor control can make his power fluctuate. Also aside jura I don't think the rest of them are like far above code. Eida statement cannot be interpreted as 1v1 until they show feats. Only jura seems a cut above the rest. till then they are just relative to Code . Also are forgetting hidari whopped her ass? She could chidori code exactly same way and he would whoop her ass after. It's even worse coz code is not gonna have tunnel vision and she might never land her chidori. Actually code would pummel her whether she can damage him or not
 
Poor control can make his power fluctuate.
His poor control is tied to Chidori. Which is because he doesn't have a sharingan. There is nothing that indicates that his durability should fluctuate.
Also aside jura I don't think the rest of them are like far above code. Eida statement cannot be interpreted as 1v1 until they show feats. Only jura seems a cut above the rest. till then they are just relative to Code .
Doesn't really matter if Hidari is above Code or relative to him. If you read my earlier replies and the reply you quoted you'd know that I was talking about Ada not even being relative to Code. Also, ain't nobody said anything about Hidari being "far above Code". Hidari is relative if not just above Code due to Eida's statement.
Also are forgetting hidari whopped her ass? She could chidori code exactly same way and he would whoop her ass after. It's even worse coz code is not gonna have tunnel vision and she might never land her chidori. Actually code would pummel her whether she can damage him or not
I would mention that She's above Hidari because of Chidori. We don't know about her usual stats.
Bruh. At least read the comment you're quoting my guy.
 
Last edited:
Nah she’s called the literal Ten-Tails a few times so she’s a bit different from just being a jinchuuriki,
Off topic, I'm guessing she can't regrow her head or sumn then. At least we have no evidence for that being the case right? Unless you scale her above characters like Victor too.
I mean he and others have used mental amps before, it’s a mechanic of the power system, Haku first explains it to him when he “fights for someone or something he cares about he’ll have power beyond his normal capabilities, he even thinks about this during his fight with Gaara before releasing a huge amount of chakra that he’s not normally able to use.

So no Naruto wouldn’t be surprised about something he’s experienced before. And it’s not like it’s a hypothetical amp, he goes from not being able to damage her even when she’s off guard or using Boil Release to being able to cut off her arm in that moment, even seconds after he does hurt her he goes back to doing 0 damage when he drops 9 Rasenshurikens on her head that don’t do anything.
It's pretty cool that there is an in verse explanation to mental amps. I always chalked it up to PIS. The more you know.
Why would she regrow her head out of her torso? Is her brain in her stomach or something?
I can't tell if this is a joke or not. But if it is then lmao.
 
Last edited:
His poor control is tied to Chidori. Which is because he doesn't have a sharingan. There is nothing that indicates that his durability should fluctuate.

Doesn't really matter if Hidari is above Code or relative to him. If you read my earlier replies and the reply you quoted you'd know that I was talking about Ada not even being relative to Code. Also, ain't nobody said anything about Hidari being "far above Code". Hidari is relative if not just above Code due to Eida's statement.


Bruh. At least read the comment you're quoting my guy.
1. No one said the poor control affected his durability. I said it can make his power fluctuate which you admits it does with chidori.

2. Ada is far above code. She isn't just skilled in taijustu but her power is there. She is stated to surpass jigen and considering the mf is immune to all her hax there is nothing there to surpass aside combat abilities.
3. That's the issue. You didn't get my point. My point is sarada with chidori is not greater than hidari. She is just relative to him. Damaging someone doesn't make you above the person if the person can do vice versa. I'm just trying to play out that sarada would do sale with her chidori against Code but overall still loose and be below him.
 
Back
Top