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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

TFO said:
I understand that, but Feats > Statements. Using this Logic, I you could argue Naruto is 5x Stronger than Rinnesharingan Madara for creating 4 Clones that Matched his Limbos. Or that he is a THOUSAND times Stronger than when he forced Kaguya to Retreat, or that he is 1000 Stronger than when he bodied transformed Gaara, etc etc.

Kishi has said things, but the portrayal of Naruto’s Clones Strength in every fight in the series has consistently been portrayed as equal to the Originals Strength.
Click to expand...
It's very possible that the same thing applies to Madara when he spreads his chakra to his Limbo clones. And tbf Naruto didn't damage Kaguya at all when his clones hit her. He was mega resolve amped when he beat up Gaara so it's not like his base self has any antifeats. And there are plenty of times where Naruto makes a bunch of clones and they just get negged, like on the rooftop against Sasuke, against Kimimaro, against K1 Jigen, etc. It's possible the nerf isn't proportional to number of clones, but there definitely is some level of nerf.

If they were really were equal with no drawbacks, there's no reason for Naruto to ever fight without a bunch of clones.
 
TFO said:
I understand that, but Feats > Statements. Using this Logic, I you could argue Naruto is 5x Stronger than Rinnesharingan Madara for creating 4 Clones that Matched his Limbos. Or that he is a THOUSAND times Stronger than when he forced Kaguya to Retreat, or that he is 1000 Stronger than when he bodied transformed Gaara, etc etc.

Kishi has said things, but the portrayal of Naruto’s Clones Strength in every fight in the series has consistently been portrayed as equal to the Originals Strength.
Click to expand...
Why do you think anyone is suggesting the decrease in power is a flat, equal spread, rather than just a slight debuff?
 
SlendVeny said:
Why do you think anyone is suggesting the decrease in power is a flat, equal spread, rather than just a slight debuff?
Click to expand...
That’s how it sounded to me, but at the end of the day, the fact still does remain that the clones have never been portrayed a weaker or debuffed in any way compared to the Original. Despite the Numbers made.
 
TFO said:
That’s how it sounded to me, but at the end of the day, the fact still does remain that the clones have never been portrayed a weaker or debuffed in any way compared to the Original. Despite the Numbers made.
Click to expand...
Why was Naruto doing pretty well against K1 Jigen but hundreds of clones supposedly equal to him got folded with low difficulty?
 
MinatoSparkle said:
It's very possible that the same thing applies to Madara when he spreads his chakra to his Limbo clones. And tbf Naruto didn't damage Kaguya at all when his clones hit her. He was mega resolve amped when he beat up Gaara so it's not like his base self has any antifeats. And there are plenty of times where Naruto makes a bunch of clones and they just get negged, like on the rooftop against Sasuke, against Kimimaro, against K1 Jigen, etc. It's possible the nerf isn't proportional to number of clones, but there definitely is some level of nerf.

If they were really were equal with no drawbacks, there's no reason for Naruto to ever fight without a bunch of clones.
Click to expand...
I’d have to disagree with the Limbo possibility. They aren’t Shadow Clones, thus Chakra isn’t being Divided between them. And while Naruto didn’t harm Kaguya, the clones weren’t portrayed as weaker than he was before the Region Combo either (Though I do wonder if Steam Release buff’s translates to Clones as well… 🤔). In regards to Gaara, be it a mental buff or not, him Dividing his Chakra 1000 times would have to have a very minuscule affect on his stats and strength for the Mental Buff be notable, unless we’re saying Mental Scaling makes up MORE than the difference that Naruto “would” be Weakend by making 1000 Clones (Actually a Good Way to “potentially” scale Mental Buff’s). And the Clones poofing away after taking hits that would hurt even Naruto isn’t support for potentially being nerfed. Naruto has shown to be able to Maintain his Clones even when they suffer mortal wounds, so… idk how you want to square that away.

And Iirc, Naruto has used clones in every single fight he’s had other than Vs Delta & Momo (And he was stopped from doing that against Momo simply because of of Jutsu Absorbtion by Boruto). 🤔
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Why was Naruto doing pretty well against K1 Jigen but hundreds of clones supposedly equal to him got folded with low difficulty?
Click to expand...
Tbf, Naruto himself wasn’t doing that good against K1 Jigen either. Again though, the clones can and will poof away from attacks that would hurt Naruto, unless he actively maintained them.

Conversely, one could ask why would he use hundreds of Clones against an enemy he knew could easily dispatch them if they were weaker?
 
TFO said:
I’d have to disagree with the Limbo possibility. They aren’t Shadow Clones, thus Chakra isn’t being Divided between them.
Click to expand...
The Limbo clones have to come from his chakra, so they would be taking away from his overall chakra pool while in use. And honestly I don't really have problems with SPSM Naruto>2 Eyed Juubidara in physical stats.
TFO said:
And while Naruto didn’t harm Kaguya, the clones weren’t portrayed as weaker than he was before the Region Combo either (Though I do wonder if Steam Release buff’s translates to Clones as well… 🤔).
Click to expand...
Not "portrayed as weaker" is far too subjective a criteria to mean anything concrete.
TFO said:
In regards to Gaara, be it a mental buff or not, him Dividing his Chakra 1000 times would have to have a very minuscule affect on his stats and strength for the Mental Buff be notable, unless we’re saying Mental Scaling makes up MORE than the difference that Naruto “would” be Weakend by making 1000 Clones (Actually a Good Way to “potentially” scale Mental Buff’s).
Click to expand...
Could be, we have no quantifiable limit for mental amps.
TFO said:
And the Clones poofing away after taking hits that would hurt even Naruto isn’t support for potentially being nerfed. Naruto has shown to be able to Maintain his Clones even when they suffer mortal wounds, so… idk how you want to square that away.
Click to expand...
Not sure what this is supposed to mean?
TFO said:
And Iirc, Naruto has used clones in every single fight he’s had other than Vs Delta & Momo (And he was stopped from doing that against Momo simply because of of Jutsu Absorbtion by Boruto). 🤔
Click to expand...
He uses them often (though idk about every single fight), but he mostly uses them as parts of strategies/plans, not just for having a bunch of partners equal to him in strength.
TFO said:
Tbf, Naruto himself wasn’t doing that good against K1 Jigen either.
Click to expand...
Uh
0037-018.png
0037-031.png
0037-033.png
0037-034.png

In terms of stats he was doing just fine, the main issue they had against K1 Jigen were his rods.
TFO said:
Again though, the clones can and will poof away from attacks that would hurt Naruto, unless he actively maintained them.
Click to expand...
Yeah but hundreds of SPSM Narutos would do this to Jigen before he even has the chance to hit most of them.
Fight Back GIFs | Tenor

Hell, if clones were really always equal to the user, I'd argue a 5K Uzumaki Barrage could even take K2 Jigen down.
TFO said:
Conversely, one could ask why would he use hundreds of Clones against an enemy he knew could easily dispatch them if they were weaker?
Click to expand...
Because he was trying to buy time?
main-qimg-66e6a5c0c8ccaf64eac8bc8bc481785b
 
MinatoSparkle said:
The Limbo clones have to come from his chakra, so they would be taking away from his overall chakra pool while in use. And honestly I don't really have problems with SPSM Naruto>2 Eyed Juubidara in physical stats.

Not "portrayed as weaker" is far too subjective a criteria to mean anything concrete.

Could be, we have no quantifiable limit for mental amps.

Not sure what this is supposed to mean?

He uses them often (though idk about every single fight), but he mostly uses them as parts of strategies/plans, not just for having a bunch of partners equal to him in strength.

Uh
0037-018.png
0037-031.png
0037-033.png
0037-034.png

In terms of stats he was doing just fine, the main issue they had against K1 Jigen were his rods.

Yeah but hundreds of SPSM Narutos would do this to Jigen before he even has the chance to hit most of them.
Fight Back GIFs | Tenor

Hell, if clones were really always equal to the user, I'd argue a 5K Uzumaki Barrage could even take K2 Jigen down.

Because he was trying to buy time?
main-qimg-66e6a5c0c8ccaf64eac8bc8bc481785b
Click to expand...
Tbf, a single Shadow Clone did Disarm Jigen in those exhanges. The showing was more a Skill Issue, as opposed to Stat issue, and as you just agreed, Clones will Poof Away after taking Hits that would hurt Naruto. Even in the Manga, Naruto does Comment how Heavy / Hard Jigen’s strikes were.

I mean, it’s really more so Neo VS Smith in Matrix 2 vs That Gif of that guy getting jumped.
 
TFO said:
Tbf, a single Shadow Clone did Disarm Jigen in those exhanges. The showing was more a Skill Issue, as opposed to Stat issue, and as you just agreed, Clones will Poof Away after taking Hits that would hurt Naruto. Even in the Manga, Naruto does Comment how Heavy / Hard Jigen’s strikes were.
Click to expand...
Yet all of them working together couldn't make any headway in defeating him, so if anything Jigen might've let that happen. Why would Adult Naruto lack skill in taijutsu?

K1 Jigen is stronger than SPSM Naruto, but not to the extent that he's dogwashing him. Why couldn't all those clones react to Jigen trying to hit him like the real Naruto did on multiple occasions?
TFO said:
I mean, it’s really more so Neo VS Smith in Matrix 2 vs That Gif of that guy getting jumped.
Click to expand...
But Naruto and Sasuke together pressed Jigen quite well without getting tagged for a while, and a team of hundreds of Narutos should be orders of magnitude more effective than just Naruto+Someone equal to Naruto. Yet they did next to nothing and just got blitzed and folded.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Yet all of them working together couldn't make any headway in defeating him, so if anything Jigen might've let that happen. Why would Adult Naruto lack skill in taijutsu?

K1 Jigen is stronger than SPSM Naruto, but not to the extent that he's dogwashing him. Why couldn't all those clones react to Jigen trying to hit him like the real Naruto did on multiple occasions?

But Naruto and Sasuke together pressed Jigen quite well without getting tagged for a while, and a team of hundreds of Narutos should be orders of magnitude more effective than just Naruto+Someone equal to Naruto. Yet they did next to nothing and just got blitzed and folded.
Click to expand...
I’ll respond to this later today.
 
Shouldn't Tsunade's lifting strength be "At least Class G" rather than "At least Class M" due to her lifting Gamabunta's sword, which would imply at least semi-comparable lifting strength?
 
Look dude it's not our fault there's barely any scaling for Base Naruto against stronger characters, if that boy didn't spam transformations it be much easier.
 
Base Naruto being 7B or unknown is a massive joke. I can bring up a 5B feat for him rn, and everyone would still snook on it.
 
BlastX said:
Look dude it's not our fault there's barely any scaling for Base Naruto against stronger characters, if that boy didn't spam transformations it be much easier.
Click to expand...
I don't care if I get called an idiot for saying this but Base War Arc Naruto's Rasen Shuriken > Pre Timeskip CS2 Sasuke's Onyx Chidori
 
Look I too think Base Naruto from BoS ***** on CS2 Sasuke but so far we can only assume and go on through feelings which is not concrete, like you can gather evidence for it and then we're talking.

I guess you could assume he is stronger than that Sasuke since one of his main motivations to go through Jiraiya's training was to bring him back and when they return they consider their training successful, not only that but Naruto is confident he will bring him back when they go to the Tenchi bridge, at the very least he should be superior to the last time he fought Sasuke.
 
Spilxson2 said:
I don't care if I get called an idiot for saying this but Base War Arc Naruto's Rasen Shuriken > Pre Timeskip CS2 Sasuke's Onyx Chidori
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure his rasenshuriken already scales above that Sasuke
Removing the Kurama influenced own against Kakuzu

Problem is, Naruto doesn't even scale to the rasenshuriken on a normal level at that point anyways until probably very late in War Arc
 
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