Naruto Speed Revisions and Scaling III

[JohnHendrix212]

@Damage; Hmm, them not having the + on their rating seems a bit off since Toneri has it. And it's probably common knowledge that the form Naruto used to beat him is inferior to the one he used during the epilogue.

But yeah, this is for another thread.

 

[Omimi]

dont worry we will have crt for AP

so we can fix it when AP crt are made

 

[Kidkinsey]

Here is the sandbox for the rel scaling. I noticed an issue with EMS Sasuke. We should add an extra EMS key which would be Sub-Rel, and the current one he has which is his chakra and SM enhanced form which wil be Rel.

sasuke even before the jugo amp was fighting alongside naruto minato and tobirama though, the only problem is they couldnt damage him, his speed being rel should be fine

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

The issue with that is he also fought SM Kabuto as well.

 

[AstralKing7]

Tbh is there a problem with Rel SM Kabuto?

Even tho I don't think he scales anyway. Because like how damage was using the jins not really overwhelming Guy's reactions or scaling to his attack speed; did we ever see Kabuto blitz Sasuke? He used some kind of underhanded techniques

 

[Damage3245]

@Kidkinsey; as far as I remember generally the only times Sasuke fought Juubito was when he charged at him alongside Naruto (which could be Naruto matching his speed to Sasuke instead of Sasuke keeping up with Naruto) and when he blocked Juubito's Orb attack which was when Juubito wasn't in full control of himself.

In which case we could just say that EMS Sasuke has higher reaction speed.

 

[Kidkinsey]

i dont wanna be that guy and throw anything out of wack since this is a great thread but its possible that they can get naturally faster over time, like kcm naruto went from being relitive to nagato and the edo jinchuriki to being able to fight juubito in that form

 

[AstralKing7]

Tbf KCM Naruto May need a revision himself with a second key. It was something brought up years ago but KCM Naruto was getting stronger throughout the war arc. Some of his feats aren't the same as when he first joined the war

 

[Kidkinsey]

even if juubito wasnt in full control of himself, he literally blizted hashirama and tobirama a few seconds earlier who are rel

 

[Padaruyos]

Well maybe with Kurama befriended KCM got a power boost. Maybe this is because previously Kurama consumes Naruto's Chakra when he uses KCM.

 

[Damage3245]

even if juubito wasnt in full control of himself, he literally blizted hashirama and tobirama a few seconds earlier who are rel

Since Tobirama was able to react to him and land a counter-attack as his body was destroyed, I wouldn't consider it a proper blitz.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Naruto has a KCM 2 form. Should he get a key for that?

 

[Padaruyos]

Isn't KCM2 Bijuu Mode?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Most likely

 

[Kidkinsey]

yeah its just called 2nd nine tails chakra mode on here lol, its mostly called biju mode or kcm2 though

 

[AstralKing7]

He already has a key for BM tho

 

[Kidkinsey]

Well maybe with Kurama befriended KCM got a power boost. Maybe this is because previously Kurama consumes Naruto's Chakra when he uses KCM.

thats also a possiblity, ive seen people refer to it as kcm 1.5 because the drastic speed boost

@damage he still got blizted he simply put the tags on after he got hit

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

KCM 2 isnt Biju mode since he doesnt have kurama out nor does he have the cloak.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Tbf KCM Naruto May need a revision himself with a second key. It was something brought up years ago but KCM Naruto was getting stronger throughout the war arc. Some of his feats aren't the same as when he first joined the war

yeah kind of like how ichigo is during the espada arc

 

[Padaruyos]

So KCM2 is basically KCM1 after Nardo befriended Kurama? I don't think so.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Pretty much. It's just a stronger version of KCM.

 

[Kidkinsey]

ive always called it like

kcm- the form that dodged ay

biju mode/kcm2- when he befriended kurama

kurama avatar is self explanitory

kcm2sm/biju sage mode- when he mixed the forms and jumped ahead of sasuke

 

[Padaruyos]

LMAO I used to call SPSM "KCM3"

 

[Kidkinsey]

So KCM2 is basically KCM1 after Nardo befriended Kurama? I don't think so.

kcm1 he is just golden, kcm2 he gets that long trench coat and his hands have those black lines on him, his eyes also look like kuramas as opposed to kcm he still has normal human eyes

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Because of Swagkage, I just called the Kurama Avatar, KCM3 (sorry for the derail).

 

[Kidkinsey]

this shows his war arc forms, when he turns in kurama i just call it kurama avatar

https://images.app.goo.gl/BipDF5yaqQNsrDh9A

idk how to post pictures yet so my bad on making you click a link

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The proposed changes look good.

 

[Damage3245]

I was feeling bored so I decided to reread Killer B's fights myself to collect as many feats as possible for his base form. If I've missed any significant feats, let me know.

Killer B vs. Sasuke, Suigetsu and Jugo

• Catches Suigetsu's charge mid-strike.
• Beats Jugo off-screen.
• Blocks Sasuke's attack and attempts to hit him but Sasuke evades while stopping the blade and kicking Killer B who is unphased.
• Killer B switches to his 7-sword style, pressuring Sasuke. He then blocks Sasuke's chidori blade and while Sasuke is shocked he stabs him with several swords. Killer B tries to finish Sasuke off but Suigetsu blocks his attack. Jugo then comes in from behind and punches Killer B in the face.
• Killer B fights Sasuke, Jugo and Suigetsu three on one and is shocked by Sasuke's chidori after getting stuck in Suigetsu. Jugo tries to land an attack from above but Killer B disappears and runs away to a nearby mountain.

Killer B vs. Kisame

• Killer B tries throwing a pencil at high speed into Kisame's head who notices and manages to duck his head in time.
• Killer B then jumps over Kisame's attempt to hit him back.
• Killer B tries stabbing Kisame while throwing a sword at him at the same time. Kisame manages to block at the attack just in time.
• Killer B throws his pencil once again at the Zetsu-Clone of Kisame, who narrowly dodges the attack.

Killer B vs. Raikage

• As the Raikage goes to punch Naruto, Killer B intervenes (though we don't know when Killer B started moving).
• Later Killer B jumps up to the Raikage when he's in the air to hit him but doesn't accomplish much. He manages to latch on to the Raikage with his tail but gets swung through the air easily.
• After talking to the Raikage, Killer B is easily punched aside by the Raikage while he's in his base mode.

Killer B vs. Itachi & Nagato

• Reacts to Itachi's fireball and cuts in in half as it approaches.
• Tries to hit Itachi with Samehada but Itachi dodges the attack.
• Reacts to Itachi's presence behind him (as Itachi warns him) and forces him to back off with Samehada. He then manages to block Itachi's shuriken attack by transforming his arm.
• He then deflects Itachi's shuriken again by using his 7-sword style. He forces Itachi to back off with his swords but isn't able to hit him.
• He tries to attack Nagato from above but Nagato sees him coming with the Rinnegan eyes and catches him.

Killer B vs. Six Paths Jinchuriki

• Killer B reacts to Yugito approaching from a distance and blocks her attack.
• Killer B tries swinging Samehada at Fuu and throwing it at her but misses. He then tries throwing chakra-enhanced swords at her twice but misses both times due to the Rinnegan's shared vision.
• Killer B outruns Yugito's homing bombs (though there's no telling how fast they actually are).
• Killer B clashes with Yugito as they run, with both of them cutting the other.

After this Killer B transforms into his full Tailed Beast form so he doesn't fight against the V2 Jin's while in base.

I can see why some people would advocate for a flat Sub-Rel value for Killer B's speed, but the optimal speed rating I would interpret from this list is that Killer B is At least MHS+, with either a "possibly Sub-Rel" or "with Sub-Rel reactions" attached to that.

Killer B only fights the Six Paths Jinchuriki while they're not in their V2 forms (which is the form I would consider to be definitely Sub-Rel for them)., his most reliable speed feats are when he's dominating the fight against Sasuke, Jugo and Suigetsu who I believe should all be MHS+, and Kisame gets his speed rating from scaling to Killer B. Against Itachi, Killer B is shown to be consistently inferior due to being unable to land a single hit on him (even with the sword style that overwhelmed Sasuke), and I believe Killer B's feat against the Raikage is too inconsistent to be used as anything but supporting a "possibly Sub-Rel" rating.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Damage, that list looks good.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

That list seems to support a solid Sub-Rel rating.

 

[Damage3245]

@Wrath; again, I can understand why you would support that but I believe that the compromise of "At least MHS+, possibly Sub-Rel" works out best for the reasons I listed at the bottom of my post.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

I disagree since KCM Naruro is also "At least Sub-Rel" and the Jinchuriki were able to keep up with him. That to me shows that they should get a solid Sub-Rel rating.

 

[Damage3245]

I would say that the Six Paths Jinchuriki in their base states are only possibly Sub-Rel too, Naruto didn't have trouble with them until he was distracted.

Once they enter their V2 states and become much faster than I'd say they're solidly Sub-Rel.

And Killer B is still shown to be a bit slower than the Jinchuriki even without their V2 states since he couldn't land a hit on Fuu. He did manage to land a hit on Yugito as they passed each other, but I'd still say that only makes him possibly Sub-Rel.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

The four tails almost hit Naruto, and the 5 tails smacked him in the face. I still think they should get a solid Sub-Rel rating.

 

[Damage3245]

@Wrath; I wouldn't count Han's feat there. Naruto was entirely focused on Roshi in front of him and trying to destroy the black rod. Han's attack was a complete surprise.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

@Wrath; I wouldn't count Han's feat there. Naruto was entirely focused on Roshi in front of him and trying to destroy the black rod. Han's attack was a complete surprise.

Considering Naruros massive speed advantage hed have if they were MHS+, he would still be able to react to his attack.

 

[Damage3245]

Eh, when it comes to surprise attacks like that, I wouldn't be so sure.

To compare with when he reacted to the Raikage for example, he knew that the Raikage was going to charge at him, heard the Raikage declare his intent, and was looking right at him when the Raikage charged at him.

Whereas none of that is applicable to the scene with Han. Even characters with great reactions can be blindsided by an attack they don't know is coming (which makes the Rinnegan's shared vision so great for Pain and Obito).

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Naruto has emotion sensing and speed far above theres. If they were that much slower, there is no way they would be able to tag him wven if it was a surprise attack.

 

[Damage3245]

Again though, Naruto was distracted and focused on something else. Naruto's emotion sensing doesn't have a 100% track record either seeing as he couldn't sense the emotions of a clone of Muu who was nearby.

And Han was using Steam jutsu which we know enhances physical abilities, so it's entirely possible that the attack he launched on Naruto is faster than a normal kick would be.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Again, you're forgetting that Naruro is far faster than they are, and on top of that he has sensing ability to give him an extra advantage. Muu is a bad example considering his ability is to stop people from sensing his presence.