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Naruto: Revision Reborn

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Amexim said:
So your solution is to ditch one of the other altogether anyway? How does that remove the problem surrounding statements, portrayals, and scaling not being consistent— wouldn't it just exasperate it?
Click to expand...
It's not inconsistent actually. In fact, once the Juubi appears, the scaling is consistently above where the calcs put these characters.

Example:

Calc puts BM Naruto at Small Island Level. SM being a 10x boost at least puts BSM Naruto at Low end 6-C, despite All of his feats being far above that.

Then we have the scaling that makes SM Hashirama at best 2x stronger than BSM Naruto based on statements. Yet, Hashirama's feats put him above Tenpenchii Juubi.

I'm not even going to scale the other relevant characters this would affect, but By this point, Potrayal, statements annd implications don't follow the calcs. That's why i said, we should do backwards scaling.

Or if not, one or the other is going to be ignored.
 
Then, couldn't you just put likely or possiblies for the ratings that are higher than the scaling...?
 
TheFinalOrder said:
Then we have the scaling that makes SM Hashirama at best 2x stronger than BSM Naruto based on statements. Yet, Hashirama's feats put him above Tenpenchii Juubi.
Click to expand...
when did SM Hashirama become stronger than BSM Naruto based on statements

if anything bm naruto = hashirama based on statements

also it was only part of kurama+naruto chakra that naruto shared with all ninja

and by feats and statements BSM Naruto>>>>>SM Hashirama
 
@Omimi

Hashirama states that Naruto has almost as much Chakra as he does. This was during the time Naruto pooled his Chakra with Minato's and the other Kyuubi this implying Base Hashirama is >= 100% Kyuubi in chakra quantity.

BM Naruto only has 50% Kyuubi Chakra therefore, Base Hashirama would be 2+ times stronger than BM Naruto.

We also know SM is comparable to the CM thus the 10x boost applies to them at least. Thus SM Hashi would be 2+ times stronger than BSM Naruto. And BSM has shown nothing that makes him superior.
 
@TheFinalOrder

Hashirama states that Naruto has almost as much Chakra as he does


=>wrong Hashirama never said that naruto+kurama chakra reserves = his chakra reserves

he said the amount of chakra naruto shared with all ninja was = his chakra reserves

and we all know that wasnt even half of yin kurama reserves that yang kurama borrowed from yin kurama

his was during the time Naruto pooled his Chakra with Minato's and the other Kyuubi this implying Base Hashirama is >= 100% Kyuubi in chakra quantity.

=>naruto and kurama was exhausted so yang kurama had to borrowed chakra chakra from yin kurama+minato

so i dont know why r u saying that yang kurama chakra was still at 100%


again hashirama said the amount of chakra naruto shared with all ninja was = his chakra reserves

AND am sure that amount of chakra naruto shared with all ninja was not even 50% of yang kurama or yin kurama full reserves let alone 100% Kyuubi
 
Amexim said:
Then, couldn't you just put likely or possiblies for the ratings that are higher than the scaling...?
Click to expand...
Maybe. If we can't reach a solution, we could add 'possibly'.

And why are the characters being judged based on the amount of their chakra? I thought we agreed that higher chakra doesn't necessarily translate to higher AP.

Where does it say the boost from Sage Mode is comparable to that of the cursed seal? The boost acquired from the former is inconsistent.
 
@Omimi

I'll address your post in a bit, let me go back to the chapters.

@Kepekley, Shadow, BFF

Naruto having equivalent chakra to Hashirama means he has equivalent potential meaning he'd scale to Hashi. Naruto has Genius level chakra control stated by Kurama to be superior to Minato in that Regard thus, BM Naruto should be equivalent to Base Hashirama in AP via comparable chakra level and genius level chakra control. This is further backed up by feats.

As for SM getting the 10x multiplier, it's shown being equivalent to the boost CM Lvl 2 buff via BSM portrayed as being Equivalent to CM Susanoo. As far as it being "inconsistent" That's not the case. SM has never been inconsistent.
 
High 6-A and no at least for: Juubi (Second which performed said feat and Third Forms), Juubito Forms, EMS Sasuke (Juugo Curse Mark and Kyuubi Cloak) and Tailed Beast Sage Mode Naruto (Both damaged Juubito), if this value is accepted by Kep.
 
@TFO

Wait, I don't understand. With what you said, can we scale the base stats of senjutsu users from them being 10x weaker than their Sage forms, since the maximum boost they can gain is not higher than 10x? If so, should we downgrade Sage Kabuto and Madara because Sage Mode obviously gave them way higher than the aforementioned 10x boost and the increase is illogical, since they can't be more than ten times stronger than base? Or should we scale their base stats based on Sage Mode granting only a 10x boost in strength? In the case of the latter, we would have things like Small City level base Kabuto, Mountain level base Madara, and Small Town level to Town level base Minato, Jiraiya and Naruto. Just because of the one single occurrence where the boost from Sage Mode was showm to be comparable to that given by the cursed seal (and wasn't Sasuke cloaked with Kurama's chakra)? I'm not fine with the backwards scaling when the boosts have been shown to vary.

It's just like we're not going to scale Base Mitsuki based on him being 10x weaker than whatever his Sage Mode stats end up at, and neither are we going to scale Base Madara from him being 10x weaker than his Sage Mode.

If I'm not mistaken, that's what you suggested. If I'm wrong, correct me. I don't have time to check the post again right now. >_>
 
Lol, I went back to sleep.

@BFF

I'll address that in about an hour or 2, about to hop in the shower. Gotta go to H&R Block today...being an adult sucks and I'm only 21 :(

Edit: Although I will say this, if we're counting the Cloak Naruto gave Sasuke then SM is a 20x buff as the 1 tail cloak is comparable to CM lvl 2 seal as shown in VoTE1 Naruto vs Sasuke.
 
Why is jiraiya not scaled to 4 tailed naruto? He was able to stop his rampage without killing him.

Sorry if this question has been answered.
 
@BFF

Base's should be scaled from SM's or CM's, that's what these forms are meant for, to be a buffed up form of their base, if the SM is upgraded or downgraded, then so to should the Base form. Not doing so is faulty and a double standard. On top of that, in some cases it'll cause problems.

SM is at least a 10x boost scaling from the CM, that's only if you're not counting the v1 cloaks Naruto handed out to everyone, which given their feats, would at least scale to VoTE1 1 tail Naruto's cloak, which in itself is a 10x buff comparable to the CM lvl 2 seal Thus, scaling from BSM Naruto, SM would be a 20x boost as EMS Sasuke was given a v1 cloak and had Juugo's CM. You're saying that SM has been shown to be in consistent, but in what ways?

You quoted Madara and Kabuto, but how were they inconsistent? The scaling for Madara is off in the First place and So is it for a lot of characters now, and that's due to the scaling. And that scaling stems from SM and Juubi.

Like I said before, the Juubi, and now SM, is going to become a point of contention in these revisions and you just can't throw out the the correlations they have with other things.

The Revisions have gotten to a point where you can't reconcile scaling and calcs without ignoring one or the other. I say we should scale from Juubi and backwards scale characters as that seems more accurate than simply ignoring all portrayal, statements and author's intent to an excessive degree. Not saying toss out calcs, but not to toss out scaling either.
 
BTW, here's some scaling that needs to be addressed:

  • Base Hashirama, EMS Madara and 100% Kyuubi are established to be roughly equal (Established in Chapter's 620-627 and implied further in 568)
  • SM Hashirama has a feat that scales him to Buff Incomplete Juubi. He sealed it's movements and power. (Ref. Chapters 631 and 632)
  • BM Naruto has 50% Kurama and hurt Tenpenchi Juubi when Kurama was fully restored (Ref. Chapters 617)
 
Man, I'm sorry but I just can't agree with slapping a limit of 10x or 20x boosts to Sage Mode users, because of something that was shown exactly only once. And no, it's not necessary to scale base forms from senjutsu boosts at all.

I said it's inconsistent because senjutsu has not shown to give the exact same boosts to the characters that use it, and neither was it stated or repeatedly backed up, which is what we'd need to accept something of this magnitude.

For example, according to you, if the Juubi becomes High 6-A, it'd scale to Sage Hashirama and Madara, right? And senjutsu cannot give more than a boost of 20x? If so, that'd be High 6-A base Madara? And what happens to Tsunade who could smash Madara and one of his Susanoo versions, and the Kage that can fight against some of them? High 6-A Gokage? Because Susanoo versions would still be stronger and more durable than base Madara.

It's just like we don't scale the base or Shikai forms of Shinigami to be 5-10x weaker than their Bankai, despite the fact that it was actually stated that Bankai multiplies their power more than 5-10 times. It creates so much inconsistencies. Yeah, I can't agree with this one. If others do, sure. But I'm not talking about this anymore, because I'm sure I can't be convinced. If you're still insistent, I guess you can make a thread later. For now, let's deal with the 8-A scaling and the MHS+ calc for the Deva Path (corrected Gywn version).

I also don't agree with the thing about BM Naruto harming the Juubi, because it was with Rasenshuriken, similarly to what happened against Kurama. And also the thing about BSM Naruto and Sasuke vs Juubito. This might have been addressed before, but why are they scaled that way when their attacks were imbued with senjutsu, which is Obito's weakness? I know that they had to use it, otherwise their ninjutsu would be nullified, but Gamakichi could mess up Obito's TSB shield, and Sage Mode Naruto's Rasengan harmed him.

There's also the contradictory thing about the notion that Sage Hashirama's twice as strong as BSM Naruto. Did the guy not admit that he wasn't a match for unstable Juubito? While Naruto actually did things against stable Juubito.

To be honest, the only thing that probably seems legit to me is Sage Hashirama restraining the Juubi, and the dude still said they had to combine together to combat it.
 
Hashirama got stomped by Juubito, he doesn't scale to Juubito. Also je only restrained Juubi with seal, that does not scale to his AP
 
Agree with Joseph, Hashirama himself admitted that Juubito was more powerful than him.
 
Hashirama staying at Low 6-B is good, it explains him restraining the Juubi and it is consistent with the fact he was pretty much swatted away.
 
but why are they scaled that way when their attacks were imbued with senjutsu, which is Obito's weakness

=>Obito's chakra arms has 0 weaknes to senjutsu so

according to my knowledge jubito chakra arms cant erase any jutsu/anyone


but Gamakichi could mess up Obito's TSB shield

=>he didn't do anything to TSB(imbued with yin-yang release) shield (other then his jutsu not getting erased)so i don't know what r u talking about

and senjutsu is always yin-yang release weakness not weakness of TSB itself

also his TSB shield(senjutsu has no effect on TSB shield durability) tank 4 jubidama(jubito tank his own attack )


1.yin-yang release cant erase any jutsu that imbued with senjutsu

2.any jutsu that imbued with senjutsu can hurt RSM user(if u r on same lvl) but jutsu without senjutsu cant not hurt them cuz they r immune to all jutsu excluding senjutsu
 
Just checked again and it seemed like it indeed didn't mess it up, so Omimi is right.

@Joseph

I think that was BSM Naruto vs Juubito. The Sage Naruto thing was after he noticed that the TSB shield didn't erase Gamakichi's attack.
 
Omimi said:
@Joseph619
also hashi couldn't even restrain jubito with his seal
Click to expand...
Of course he couldn't. Hashi doesn't scale to Juubito in any way. He was relevant there because of his chakra restraining power with mokuton and the seal barriers.
 
Looks like the High 6-A results are still under evaluation, so I'm going to assume the Country level+ and Large Country level results are legit.

In that case, we can use those results if the High 6-A isn't accepted.
 
Hmm, yeah. The problem is any possible High 6-A stuff. I don't know what to think of any High 6-A Shippuden character without Rikudou juice.
 
Burning Full Fingers said:
Looks like the High 6-A results are still under evaluation, so I'm going to assume the Country level+ and Large Country level results are legit.
In that case, we can use those results if the High 6-A isn't accepted.
Click to expand...
Country level+ and Large Country level just only a part of whole Juubi Tenpenchii no?
 
i can see Juubito being High 6-A, he was still a 10 tails jin after all, just the scalingthat becomes a headache
 
@Omimi

Seriously? I didn't know that. Let's see. If the High 6-A isn't accepted, can't we use at least High 6-B if it's just a part of the whole thing?

@Shadow

For Juubito, it's definitely good to go. No arguments or anything.
 
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