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Naruto Part 1 Speed Calcs & Ratings

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Damage3245

Damage3245

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These are the calcs we currently use to rate the speed for Part 1 Naruto characters:

The first calc was imported from Naruto Forums and doesn't appear to use the correct angsizing methods. The other calcs were made here.

I have calced new speed feats and re-calced the previous speed feats with what I believe to be more accurate methods, so far all of these have been accepted by calc group members and I felt it is time to make a CRT:

To be clear, I'm not suggesting we alter the speed of Kakashi and Guy since their feats were extremely casual and they were just showing off in front of Genin. I'm just including them in the list to demonstrate consistency.

Also, I have calced Temari's speed of swinging her arms and swinging the fan separately because nobody directly scales to Part 1 Temari's feat with her weapon at this point in the series. Temari's unarmed combat speed would be higher than the speed at which she moves arms when swinging her fan, but I don't think she'd be as fast as the full speed of her weapon when swings it in an arc like she did in her battle against Tayuya.

If I am mistaken about that however, then it can be removed.

NOTE: This is a CRT primarily just for Part 1 Naruto speed feats, calcs and ratings. Any revisions concerning Shippuden speed ratings should not be discussed on this thread.
 
The three calculations that were recalculated seem fine to use; especially considering the later 2 aren't that much lower. I also don't mind using the recalculation of Naruto blitzing thugs instead, but Kakashi and Guy's Supersonic speed feats are extremely casual and they of course already scale from better feats. I don't mind too much the kid ninja and genin's having slight downgrades.

But I do prefer input from someone like TataHakai.
 
hmmm. well, i like consistency, and before the chunin exams, characters (team 7 and other genins) were clearly getting outpaced by people that had trouble dodgin sound (rock lee iirc), meaning that, imo, they cant be supersonic to an extent. now, the rock that blitzed them had his weights on, and the rock lee that was almost killed by the sound ninja also had his weights on. we can clearly see the difference in speed from that rock lee, to a weightless rock lee, so please, lets keep it real. i hate to say it, but pre late chuninc exams genin are prolly not supersonic
 
@DDM; thank you for the input.

@Lorenzo; the Supersonic speed feats are mostly when they are using the Body Flicker Technique (Shunshin) which amplifies their speed.
 
Supersonic feat for Jonin is consistent how for genin??? All of this is inconsistent. Rock Lee blitzed a ninja who could use supersonic attacks.

Also why are u calcing Shunshin??? That's a speed amp stacked on top of their speed already. That doesn't make any sense to try and say that shunshin is supersonic when the characters who use it aren't supersonic in Base in the first place. That's inconsistent and this whole method you are using is wrong if you ask me.

Also I think someone commented under your temari calc about why she scales to her fans attack speed. Secondly can u prove why she wouldn't be as fast as her feat and not just say u don't think she is?


Last the main problem I see. You said Naruto's clac was wrong. If it's wrong why can't you fix it instead of jsut leaving it because that calc effects consistency overall for genius. Don't jsut leave it out like it's not important. Also u should get staff on the crt if it's truly something wrong with the methods used to calc it
 
I guess the input I have is that Lee directly scales > Gaara's Automatic defense which would put him at Hypersonic+.

Then, using the accepted gate multipliers, he would me Mach 104.125 or MHS at least with the first gate. We, unfortunately, don't know how much the other Gates boost the user but we know that lee opened the first one in that fight.
 
There is a lot of stuff left out in the scaling used by the op. It's literally not making any sense why it's left out.
 
i guess i should clear some shit i suppose- by genin, i mean anybody who isnt a teacher or a gaara team member (maybe).

now, i dont remember perfectly how it happened, but naruto blitzing some thugs had the usage of substitution to it, which may have affected the outcome (i could be wrong).

even then, all genin were impressed at sasuke dodging sound, meaning that it was impressive and hard to do- even the sound ninja were impressed. leads me to believe that this was their first time seeing this happen, tbh.

so characters that are faster than sound should be kurama amped naruto, cm sasuke, weightless lee, gaara's sand (his reaction and movement speed are quite slow tbh), and maybe temari and neji.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
The three calculations that were recalculated seem fine to use; especially considering the later 2 aren't that much lower. I also don't mind using the recalculation of Naruto blitzing thugs instead, but Kakashi and Guy's Supersonic speed feats are extremely casual and they of course already scale from better feats. I don't mind too much the kid ninja and genin's having slight downgrades.
But I do prefer input from someone like TataHakai.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it more or less my view as well.
 
@Jvando; would you be able to put the images into a gallery please? Or link them instead of posting them as a long list.

@AstralKing7;

> Supersonic feat for Jonin is consistent how for genin??? All of this is inconsistent. Rock Lee blitzed a ninja who could use supersonic attacks.

I wanted to include every speed feat I calced for Part 1 instead of leaving them out so that we can discuss them.

If you had read the OP you'd see that I was not proposing we actually use the calcs to determine their ratings. It just shows that Kakashi and Guy when being extremely casual can be Supersonic speeds.

> Also why are u calcing Shunshin???

Why not? We've calced Naruto's Substitution jutsu which is extremely similar.

> Last the main problem I see. You said Naruto's clac was wrong. If it's wrong why can't you fix it instead of jsut leaving it because that calc effects consistency overall for genius.

I did fix it.
 
AstralKing7 said:
U forgot literally about Sound 4 and Kimimaru bro
Click to expand...
Do they have a speed calc? I hadn't seen one for them.
 
Shunshin is a speed amp man.

Substitution is not a speed amp bro.

We don't know how fast Shunshin actually is. We're using assumptions which makes this inconsistent
 
@AstralKing7; well the only explicitly Shunshin calcs in the OP are Kakashi's and Might Guy's... who I'm not proposing we use for scaling?
 
For me, my opinion is basically that of DDM.

However, I still prefer a 220 fps timeframe for the full blitz of the human eye. That was a record of trained humans and the Ninjas are all superhuman.

Anyway, I'm fine with everything.
 
My first comment was about Jonins. It was about how your trying to use a speed amp calc at supersonic from Jonins who base speed isn't supersonic to say it's consistent for Genins ƒÿÉ that's the problem. First of all it's from Jonins who base speed isn't even supersonic. Shunshin increases speed. So that's where your calc is already when you got shunshin slower than their base speed.

Next you assume genin got blitzed by supersonic shunshin. We already don't even give numbers to shunshin because of the fact that it's an unknown amount of speed compared to their base.

This is not consistent for genin who your evidence literally shows getting blitzed by two Jonin who are way above supersonic in Base using shunshin to blitz genin

First of all that makes no sense. You gotta think Damage, if Kakashi and guy are in Base faster than supersonic genin why not jsut blitz them withhtout shunshin???? Context is key here man. Supersonic genins make no sense when Kakashi could have blitzed them without shunshin if your proposing they are only supersonic


Next Sasuke can use shunshin himdelf. You believe he is supersonic?? Your evidence is that he got blitzed by your supersonic shunshin which u think is consistent. Makes no sense when Sasuke himself can react to Haku using his own shunshin.
 
The fact that you got supersonic shunshin from two Jonin who are already above supersonic by different tiers should have gotten the calc dismissed by calc staff in the first place. We aren't going to use it for consistency when it's not even consistent for the users who base speed is far far higher. Kep himself would disagree with this. The site already doesn't give a number to shunshin and it's not consistent for genin who got blitzed by Kakashi and guy who stacked shunshin on top of their already base speed which is above supersonic by tiers
 
Jvando said:
I guess the input I have is that Lee directly scales > Gaara's Automatic defense which would put him at Hypersonic+.

Then, using the accepted gate multipliers, he would me Mach 104.125 or MHS at least with the first gate. We, unfortunately, don't know how much the other Gates boost the user but we know that lee opened the first one in that fight.
Click to expand...
Lee 4
Lee 3
Lee 2
Lee 1

 
1.with accepted gate multiplier all top tier genin(sasuke, naruto,neji, lee etc) is Mach 104.125 or MHS

2.that alone make whole Supersonic calc usless

3.and u made Supersonic calc for top tier like kakashi and Might Guy

and call it consistency

when we know kakashi and Might Guy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MHS 1st gate lee or Mach 24.654 Temari
 
@Omimi; the the top tier Genin don't scale directly to Rock Lee when he has the Gates active, do they?

Stop focusing on the Kakashi & Guy calcs. They're not the important ones here.
 
iirc Neji always defeated Lee in spars which would mean Naruto would scale. Maybe Sasuke too cause he did well against Gaara.
 
Damage your using the shunshin calcs as consistency for the genin. Obviously it is important when your method is wrong plus the fact that your using Shunshin in the wrong way.

Hell all of the sound 4 scale above Sasuke.

Also rock lee blitzed gaaras sand without the gates damage
 
@AstralKing7; which part of the methods for those calcs are wrong?

If you've read my comments Astral, you'd know that the Shunshin calcs are irrelevant for the scaling.

There are two Supersonic calcs without them.

I don't get why you're mentioning the Sound 4.

Rock Lee did manage to outspeed Gaara's sand after he took off his weights and before he used the Eight Gates. And?
 
Rock lee without gates scales above Gaara who is Hypersonic man

U have two supersonic calcs? In other words inconsistent to all of the other Hypersonic feats and scaling to stronger forms of the genin. Makes sense

Your scaling shunshin using a random number. That's what's wrong with your method. Shunshin is already too fast and gives tunnel vision. Shunshin stacks on top of the base speed so you assuming it's supersonic form using a random number to calc the blitz is automatically wrong when Kakashi and Guy aren't supersonic in Base. I said that how many times up top? That's why your method is wrong. It's important because you said it's more evidence for consistency my man. Shunshin isn't supposed to have any number on it.

I talked about sound 4 in regard to someone else. But either way sound 4 scale above Sasuke CM Who scales above base Sasuke who blitzed Gaara defense bro. Did you forget about all of this????? It seems you did
 
Non weighted Lee and post training Sasuke should scale to Gaara's feat. Not sure about Neji iirc Lee didn't use the Gates against him as he said he was saving it for him while fighting Gaara but he probably is superior to non weighted Lee.
 
@AstralKing7; how is it inconsistent? The characters who scale to the Supersonic calcs would scale to them, and the characters who scale to the Hypersonic calcs will scale to them.

The Shunshin calcs aren't any more random than any other FTE calcs. And for the millionith time, I'm not proposing that any speed ratings need to be affected by the Shunshin calcs.

Again, why are you talking to me about the Sound 4? Talk to the other person about them.
 
The calcs may be fine, Mathematically, but some are unusable due to in verse scaling.

  • Kakashi and Gai scale higher (Certainly casually above Temari).
  • It makes little sense for Casual Base Naruto to be above Casual Gai (Who gets his rating in your calc from Blitzing them) and it makes little Sense for Base Naruto to Casually be around Casual Kakashi's speed.
I'll say Naruto's Mach 1.19 is fine as it's his first speed feat and is not contradicted. The problem Is, the subsequent feats.

  • Base Sasuke (Without Sharingan at this point) is comparable to Base Naruto who, by your calc is Supersonic (Mach 1.19). Against Lee, he demonstrates perception of Lee's movements but isn't fast enough to actually intercept them.
  • This means Base Lee (w/o Gates) is a higher degree of supersonic than either Naruto or Sasuke (Whom is Generally the Fastest of the two).
  • Base Lee is easily able to react to Dosu's physical movements, which through feats are also Supersonic. Zaku is also comparable to Dosu,
So the implication of their Moves being faster let's me and everyone know that your calcs lowballing the "Supersonic Speed" of their attacks are invalid due to feats suggesting the speed of their attacks leans towards the Mid/Higher ends of Supersonic.

Thus the only "valid" calcs on here are your Temari calcs, Gaara Calc, and Base Naruto calc. Everything else is nonsensical or just invalid due to feats, context and implication.
 
Damage damn near all of the current genin would stil be Hypersonic. That's the whole point of my comment. Ino and Sakura would be the only ones affected.

FTE is a random number for shunshin becusee shunshin is faster than that. I literally said it above multiple times. We can't jsut give any number to a shunshin which is already above supersonic speeds my man.
 
@TheFinalOrder; the only attack of theirs involved in a calc is Zaku's sound blasts. So I'm not sure how Sasuke's feat of dodging that (when he has to carry Naruto & Sakura too) is disproved by that.
 
Also shunshin is your evidence for consistency did u not read your own op?? That's why we're all arguing against it. It's non consistent in the first place
 
AstralKing7 said:
Also shunshin is your evidence for consistency did u not read your own op?? That's why we're all arguing against it. It's non consistent in the first place
Click to expand...
You seem to have completely misinterpreted me.

This is a revision thread for Part 1 Naruto speed calcs.

The Kakashi and Guy calcs are Part 1 Naruto speed calcs.

If I left them out of the discussion, that would be inconsistent of me.

Take a step back Astral and get some perspective.

Here is a hypothetical question: Do you believe that Kakashi and Guy are capable of travelling slower than the speed of sound?
 
Damage3245 said:
@TheFinalOrder; the only attack of theirs involved in a calc is Zaku's sound blasts. So I'm not sure how Sasuke's feat of dodging that (when he has to carry Naruto & Sakura too) is disproved by that.
Click to expand...
You used SoS (Mach 1) as a Low Ball to calc the feat. Their (Sound Nin-Trio) attacks (Ninjutsu) are stated to be Supersonic (Mach 1+ - 5) and implied to be faster than themselves, but the issue is, they scale from Base Naruto and Sasuke, who're faster than Mach 1 (which you've used to calc the feat) thus invalidating the calc as feats suggest their Ninjutsu leans towards the Mid/High end of Supersonic.
 
@TheFinalOrder; their sound attacks are stated to be the speed of sound, not supersonic.

The "Supersonic" statements come from early translation mistakes.
 
The issue is that you simply don't need those calcs to scale them. They scale fine to >MHS just using Lee as a basis...and so too does like every other Elite Jonin and Kage that doesn't have a calc.

And the way you phrased the question is weird. I mean, if they wanted to go slower than supersonic then they could? Like, I'm not sure what you were trying to get at.

Regardless, I think the issue most of us have is that your shunshin calcs

  • Arent correct since Kakashi and Guy have a higher base speed by default
  • Arent needed regardless because we can scale them fine without them
 
@Jvando; then there is no issue since as DDM said in the very first response to this, Kakashi and Guy already scale to higher feats.

And the feats are performed by them while being extremely casual.

Just because a character scales to MHS doesn't mean they're incapable of moving slower when it suits them.
 
The shunshin speed rating is inconsistent that's the point man. We don't care about Jonin scaling it's the point that the shunshin calc is wrong. How did you get supersonic for a teleportation/body flicker jutsu that's supposed to be faster than their base speed which is above supersonic by different tiers??? That's the whole point. I'm not misunderstanding anything. Your using that as consistent evidence for genin when the calc is wrong and that's the reason why we don't give random numbers to Shunshin.

You need to remove shunshin from your op as evidence

This is supposed to be a thread for genin speed. If it was for everyone I'm pretty sure you would have used all calcs for Jonins as well instead of trying to make this up by saying it's a part 1 thread and using the shunshin calcs from two Jonin.

It's not inconsistent of you in the first place. It jsut doesn't make any sense to include calcs from Jonin level ninja in a thread that has scaling for genin who dotn scale to Jonin in the first place. This whole thing is shady if you ask me. That makes 0 sense.
 
Damage3245 said:
@TheFinalOrder; their sound attacks are stated to be the speed of sound, not supersonic.

The "Supersonic" statements come from early translation mistakes.
Click to expand...
And where was this proven? Because even the Databook has their attacks stated to be Supersonic. Even then, nothing changes. Zaku would still scale to Supersonic via feats and previous calcs and his Ninjutsu would be faster still.
 
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