Naruto Part 1 Speed Calcs & Ratings

[TheFinalOrder]

@TheFinalOrder; I was referring to Post-Training Sasuke.

Ah, Ok.

 

[AstralKing7]

Shikamaru doesn't scale to tayuya!? God..

Tbh sometimes I wonder if we should split the profiles liek Naruto and Sasuke.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think the profiles need splitting, but we could probably add more keys to them (A Chunin Exams Arc Key and a Sasuke Retrieval Arc key for most).

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Shikamaru should scale from Tayuya...I gotta go back and read that part.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Yeah, they all scale to Hypersonic+ from S4.

 

[Omimi]

...Kishi has mftl characters in the first 10 chapters of Samurwi 8.

and Kishi has Sol characters in the first 30 chapters of naruto lol

 

[Omimi]

On the contrary Neji has Hypersonic perception. He was able to read all of Lees moves without the weights and I think even the gates speed as well

FALSE.

Neji would actually have MHS percption as he was able to read and keep track of Lee's movements while said individual had opened the 4th and 5th gates. You can also see that he was straining to do so a bit from the sweat on his head...that might also be from him being a bit nervous after seeing Lee go off like a boss.

This is also supported by when Lee stated how he was saving that move for Neji meaning that according to Lee, Neji was already > than him. I think we can take his word since they had been teammates for a while at that time and had sparred more than likely a few times

Lee out right says that he need 5th gate to beat Neji

so neji scale to MHS

5th gate >>>Neji>>>>1st gate >>bse lee

 

[AstralKing7]

Damn he stated that??

 

[Omimi]

@AstralKing7

 

[Omimi]

kn0 naruto scale to haku and neji

haku is fast enough to intercept kakshi from killing zabuza

so part1 haku scale to part1 kakashi

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Outlier for Haku

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think that means Neji normally scales top at least 4 Gates Lee, that's vs a bit too far out there.

Rock Lee is only supposed to use the Eight Gates when he is defending something precious with his life, and only used it against Gaara because he has special permission.

Neji should just scale to Rock Lee without his weights.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

This statement doesnt say that Lee needs the 5th Gate to beat Neji, it means Lee prepared this to fight Neji eventually.

Neji has never faced it and we don't know if it would stomp Neji or be useless against him.

 

[Omimi]

Outlier

how

Zabuza said Haku is stronger than gim and kakshi cant beat him

also edo haku who should be weaker then alive haku can react to guy and lee

@Damage3245

"I don't think that means Neji normally scales top at least 4 Gates Lee, that's vs a bit too far out there."

that means Neji atleast above 1st gate lee

"Neji should just scale to Rock Lee without his weights."

no Lee word suggest that neji is strong enough to take on 1st to 4th gate lee

@IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 "This statement doesnt say that Lee needs the 5th Gate to beat Neji, it means Lee prepared this to fight Neji eventually."

no Lee word suggest that neji is strong enough to take on 1st to 4th gate lee

if 1st gate lee could take on neji then he wouldnt even need 2nd gate let alone 5th gate

even thou lee has 5th gate he still think neji is stronger then him

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; there are massive power inconsistencies between Part 1 Naruto and Shippuden. I don't think it's a good idea to bring up Edo Haku.

I think we'd need to see some actual feats of Neji fighting and defeating Rock Lee when he is using the Eight Gates. Context implies that he hasn't used them in casual sparring.

 

[Omimi]

then forget about edo haku

Zabuza said Haku is stronger than him and kakshi cant beat him

and 4 sound ninja can take on 2 jonnin

jonnin > 1st gate lee

so its consistencies

"I think we'd need to see some actual feats of Neji fighting and defeating Rock Lee when he is using the Eight Gates. Context implies that he hasn't used them in casual sparring. "

no we dont cuz

even guy guy said said tha 5th gate was to beat neji

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; Zabuza was basically bragging to Kakashi about how skilled Haku was as a killer. As seen on this page he's talking about Haku's skills and his Ice Release.

Since part of what you are talking about concerns feats from Shippuden and Kakashi's rating (which is determined from Shippuden) we should save this discussion for a separate thread.

 

[Omimi]

@Damage3245

"I think we'd need to see some actual feats of Neji fighting and defeating Rock Lee when he is using the Eight Gates. Context implies that he hasn't used them in casual sparring. "

no we dont need that cuz

even guy said thay 5th gate was to beat neji




now i am 100% sure that neji scale above 1st gate lee

 

[Jvando]

That, I believe, is a mistranslation.

 

[Damage3245]

That is definitely a very different translation to the official version.

We also know that Might Guy made Rock Lee swear never to use the Eight Gates unless in a dire situation or when he needs to protect something dear to him.

 

[Omimi]

then we need to look for raw

Edit : even without that

they still scale to MHS

4 sound ninja can take on 2 jonnin so 4 sound ninja scale to MHS

cuz jonnin >>>> 1st gate lee

neji and other gennin fought 4 sound ninja

naruto react to kabuto

kimimaru react to 1st gate lee etc

 

[AstralKing7]

Those aren't Jonin. They are special jonin. Sound 4 thought they were gonna die tbh.

I do agree with omimi tho about finding the original translation of guys statement

 

[Damage3245]

> cuz jonnin >>>> 1st gate lee

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we've actually seen any Jonin fight Rock Lee with the Eight Gates in Part 1?

And I don't think we should say that Kakashi and Guy represent the average Jonin.

> kimimaru react to 1st gate lee etc

Kimimaro barely reacted to a single attack from Rock Lee using the 1st Gate, and this was questionable since he already had his defenses prepared for it. And this is from a recently recovered Lee. He should not be scaling to Rock Lee's Eight Gates speed.

 

[AstralKing7]

You do know that Jonin scale above MHS right Damage?

Rock Lee in 5th gate is below Jonin in everything. The Gates gives a multiplier to your base stats. His base stats being boosted is impressive for a genin but to a Jonin he it's not at all. Average Jonin keep up with characters way faster than Lee

As well as the fact that one of those Jonin that omimi is referring has feats.

But this isn't important anyway

 

[AstralKing7]

We need the official translation of what guy said about the 5th gate or I'll just go watch the anime which is even better

 

[Jvando]

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; all I'm saying is that they don't directly scale to Rock Lee. They scale to other feats.

Funnily enough Kakashi thinks of Rock Lee with the Gates active as being "Fast!" which is funny thing to say about someone if they're a dozen times slower than you, and Might Guy thinks that Rock Lee's combo is a move that makes the user "untouchable" due to sheer speed. (At least that's what the official translation of what Guy says is).

 

[Jvando]

He can be impressed with his speed regardless. I mean, lee at that point is the fastest genin anyone has seen in the Chunin exams but that's all besides the point

 

[AstralKing7]

Kakashi also thinks of Haku as stronger than himself...

 

[Omimi]

Damage3245 wrote:
>Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we've actually seen any Jonin fight Rock Lee with the Eight Gates in Part 1?

they are Special Jōnin and they are very strong

Raidō Namiashi fought Hidan and Kakuzu

and

Genma Shiranui fought Baki (elite jonin of sand)

and if u realy think that 1st Gate lee a genin >>>any jonin

then we have serious problem

> Kimimaro barely reacted to a single attack from Rock Lee using the 1st Gate, and this was questionable since he already had his defenses prepared for it. And this is from a recently recovered Lee. He should not be scaling to Rock Lee's Eight Gates speed.

why do u think he react barely

https://**********.com/manga/Naruto/0212-010.png


to me its look like he react to Gates speed easily with 0 struggle

and he sure doe scale to Rock Lee's Eight Gates speed.

 

[Damage3245]

From what I can tell, the translation is something like "The answer to take Neji down is that high-speed combination". Though I'm confused as to how the Viz panel makes no mention of that.

However I think that would create all kinds of weird scaling issues if we said that Neji is equal to Eight Gates Rock Lee, if Rock Lee without any Gates is faster Gaara's sand. Unless it's possible that after he took off his weights, Rock Lee also had the 1st Gate active when he was faster than Gaara's sand. I'll have to double-check.

Also, Rock Lee needing a high-speed combination to defeat Neji isn't exactly the same thing as Neji being equal in speed to Rock Lee with the Eight Gates active.

@Omimi; "barely" because he didn't really do anything. He just stood there with his bones sticking out of them, and the bones absorbed the impact of Rock Lee's kick. He didn't show any movement of Rock Lee's level.

 

[Omimi]

Kakashi also thinks of Haku as stronger than himself...

zabuza said Kakashi wont able beat to Haku

and Haku is also stronger then him

+ he also react to kakashi

 

[AstralKing7]

Neji could perceive the move of 4th gate and 5th gate Lee Guy said Neji couldn't defend against 5th gate not that he couldn't perceive or dodge it.

Also how will the scaling become weird? It's jsut perception speed tbh. No one else in the chunin exams was able to put speed Neji so the scaling doesn't become weird.

 

[Mindovin]

Lee didn't care it is forbidden move when using against Sasuke.

He going to use Reverse Lotus on Neji and the move use minium 3rd gate .

There is no need for Lee open gates when training Neji only to know the Neji's fightning capability and himself but considering they are teammates and it is training he most likely open the first (Neji didn't see 4th Gate as he shock how fast he is ).

Haku isn't stronger than Kakashi, if it was true:

KN0 Naruto>>>Sasuke>Haku (physically iirc)>Kakashi>=Zabuza which is false, Kishimoto most likely didn't think through in the first arc.

 

[Damage3245]

Woah, that databook entry contains some pretty interesting information it seems.

It states that the Reverse Lotus is what removes the limiters placed on the Human body (the ones that restrict Shinobi from using 100% to only 20%).

If that's true, then the 5x multiplier might not apply until the user has activated the 3rd Gate.

 

[Jvando]

That's not true @Damage


This is what Guy states about the brain limiting your ability to use your full muscle capacity.






Here, guy goes into detail about how the gates act as limiters and he specifically notes that the First Gate, Kaimon, releases the limiters set by the brain. Anything the data book says to contradict what we are told in the manga is null.

 

[Omimi]

From what I can tell, the translation is something like "The answer to take Neji down is that high-speed combination"

1.if what u said is correct then its means

• 5th gate lee>neji >>>1st gate lee
• and neji will scale above 1st gate lee
• Kn0 naruto scale to neji

2.Special Jōnin like Raidō Namiashi & Genma Shiranui is above 1st gate lee

• Raidō Namiashi fought Hidan and Kakuzu and
• Genma Shiranui fought Baki (elite jonin of sand)
• sound four scale to Raidō Namiashi & Genma Shiranui
• Raidō Namiashi / Genma Shiranui>>>>>1st gate

3.some gennins scale to sound four

 

[AstralKing7]

Damage we showed You the evidence for the Gates multipliers on the thread which talked about it. This isn't important right now in the first place tho

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; we don't have explicit confirmation that Rock Lee actually used the Eight Gates against Neji in sparring. It's just implied.

Baki doesn't have any significant speed feats from what I can tell. Just being a Jonin doesn't grant you a certain level of speed without evidence.