Narratives, Tiering, and Low 11-C (Staff only)

[Agnaa]

Intro written by Dargoo with permission:

A.K.A.: SCP messes with our Tiering System 2: Dimensional Boogaloo.

See the first dozen comments regarding the issue at hand, especially with SCP's layered narrative cosmology that the Metafiction scips are currently bringing forward. See below for quotes, this gets trippy. While we treat someone who sees X-Dimensional character as fiction as a degree of infinity above them when this gets applied largescale to lower tiers there arises the issue of us stopping at 11-C.

This is, because the SCP below is perceived as fiction in an 11-C environment, and we specifically get the "layered dimentional" talk that's the reasoning for the Tiering of SCPs such as SCP-3812. Ergo, I propose Low 11-C, as the lower-dimensional equivalent to Tier 1-A. Similarly to how outerversal characters exist wholly outside of the concept of dimensions, Low 11-C characters would be wholly below the concept of dimensions.

We introduced 11-C itself off of a similar conundrum, and Dark has claimed that he overlooked this possibility when helping make the system themselves. We also have several tiers with only one character, and this will likely have many considering Agnaa is planning on expanding the SCP Verse into Pataphysics on this site.


Evidence presented by Agnaa, see below for how it's a degree of infinity below 11-C:


So we have SCP-2747. The important part from all this technobabble about its tier is:

It can effect through layers of metafictional narrative, i.e. a metanarrative containing the anafabula will cease to exist within the narrative, followed by the narrative itself disappearing from our reality.

In this quote, "the anafabula" is referring to SCP-2747, but why do they use that term? They defined it earlier as...

It is the current hypothesis of the Department of Analytics that SCP-2747 represents evidence of a naturally-occuring anafabula, or anti-narrative

This puts 2747 3 levels of fiction below reality. If reality is abstraction layer 0, the "narrative" referred to in the first quote is abstraction layer 1, the "metanarrative" within the narrative is abstraction layer 2, then SCP-2747, the anafabula is an anti-narrative, making it abstraction layer 3.

As this SCP exists as an anti-narrative, within a narrative, within a narrative, within reality, would that make it Tier 11-C?

NOTE: STAFF ONLY

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I've commented in chat, and it isn't three levels of fiction below reality.

"metanarrative containing the anafabula"

It isn't stated to exist as a narrative in the metanarrative; it's simply contained within. It isn't a narrative within the metanarrative, rather it's just part of the metanarrative that cancels out with it, thus producing results in "higher" narratives.

So, 11-B makes more sense.

 

[Agnaa]

Yes but the thing that's being contained is the anti-narrative. The thing that is being described is an anti-narrative.

Isn't a narrative that exists in our reality lower-dimensional? Even if the physical representation of it may not be, if the narrative's what is being referred to and not the object it's contained on, then it is lower dimensional.

Hence, this anti-narrative, existing two narratives deep, should be three levels of fiction below.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

(Didn't the foundation use this thing to figure out that they existed in a narritive?)

I personally think 11-C makes sense, but this would easily be the most haxed tier 11 if it got a profile

 

[Agnaa]

It looks like (from the footnotes) that a bunch of SCPs pointed towards that.

is it really a problem if it's the most haxed tier 11?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I was thinking that it was one of the main ones, since only a few O5 know about Swann, and the best anyone else has was that guy who entered stories as the hero and tried to fix everything and that guy who got sucked into a noir comic and tried to overwrite the Foundations reality

Not really, i was just pointing it out, although Dimensional Shamblers are probably way stronger iirc

 

[Agnaa]

I mean, there's also the whole existence of the pataphysics department. 2747 comes after it's established. Same with Murphy Law. But it seems like Swann is the first one, then the Foundation started looking further from there.

Also if you're interested, you can find more of these kinds of SCPs under the narrative tag.

 

[Cain_Fastus]

Speaking of Murhpy Im surprised that we are yet to have profile for him dedbite bieng a strong reality warper

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

based on what he managed to do, i think it's closer to plot manip, but i might be wrong on that

 

[Cain_Fastus]

based on what he managed to do, i think it's closer to plot manip, but i might be wrong on that

Plot manipulation is a form of reality warping

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

technically everything is reality warping, but what i mean was that what he did was more or less based on attempting to merge a fiction that he had basically full control over (iirc) with the Foundations reality, which seems more like plot manip in effect

 

[Jinsye]

I personally think 11-C makes sense, but this would easily be the most haxed tier 11 if it got a profile

I'm sorry what

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

i'm fairly certain that 2747 has the potential to destroy the foundations narritive, which is getting upgraded to High 1-B

 

[Cain_Fastus]

I personally think 11-C makes sense, but this would easily be the most haxed tier 11 if it got a profile

I'm sorry what

Dis is not a 11-C

Whit face is 11-A same with Bill Cipher

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'd rather keep discussion on the dimensionality, and not narratives in general, and Agnaa, I'd reccomend looking into anybody who is particularly knowledgeable about dimensional towering.

 

[Agnaa]

I asked DarkLK, who I believe is the main mind behind this tiering system, for his thoughts on this thread.

The problem is that when I created the tiering system, i focusing on ultra-high tiers, but not ultra-low ones. So I'm definitely not the best expert in this.

In any case, if the difference between the levels of narrative is at least equal to the difference between dimensions, then you can simply take away the number of dimensions. But I do not know if this corresponds to the context.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

thing is, if the narritives have infinite dimensions (or really any large amount of dimensions) that makes the narritive in question (-Infinity*3)+3-D, which ends up in N/A

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I feel like we may have another "broke the Tiering system" case here, and we might have to label it as "Unknown" with a lengthy note.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

we do have a N/A tier (which has like 10 uses at most)

 

[Agnaa]

You may be right in that this would be below 11-C.

Is there really an N/A tier? I thought we just used Unknown.

EDIT: Maybe this could work as "At most 11-C (as an anti-narrative inside a meta narrative inside a narrative it is at least 3 levels of fiction below reality)" but if we're creating the new classification of "At most" just for this then it's probably best to just leave it at Unknown (is 3 narratives below normal reality, where each of these narratives has an unspecified number of dimensions).

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

You may be right in that this would be below 11-C.
Is there really an N/A tier? I thought we just used Unknown.

i've seen profiles with it in the Unknown category, but they may not exist anymore

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, I've never heard of N/A, Unknown is what we usually use.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

i find it weird that we have an "at most" for basically every stat but not for tiers, even though they kinda come hand-in-hand

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'd still like more admin/mod input for now, though. If you haven't already, message Ant, Weekly, Matt, and PaChi, just going off of who gave input on the 3125 dimensional mixup.

 

[Wokistan]

Pokey Minch has an N/A key.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

We don't really officially use N/A. Most of the case with N/A should just be changed to Unknown.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

"Incapable of doing harm to others" would just be 10-C or Unknown, I have no clue where N/A comes from, lol.

 

[Wokistan]

He probably should be 10-C with it, but its more that he's immobile. I can't think of anyone else like that, having N/A as their tier.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I mean, most plants spring to mind. That justification is likely an exaggeration.

 

[Wokistan]

Its actually not. He hops into that thing, which is totally indestructible, but also completely immobile and he can't exit it. The fight then ends because he technically BFRed himself.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Then, he'd just be immobile, and that wouldn't affect his AP/Dura (past invuln)?

(we're derailing from the original topic, might be better for a seperate CRT if there is debate about it)

 

[Cain_Fastus]

In that case shouldint scp 3125 gets a N/A as well? Cause I dont now what should it have

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Like Saikou and I have said above, Unknown is used for such cases. N/A isn't a thing.

 

[Cain_Fastus]

Like Saikou and I have said above, Unknown is used for such cases. N/A isn't a Ok!

 

[Cain_Fastus]

Who is going to make the profile? Hopefuly Dargoo

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

If I'm making the profile, I will not include an Extended Canon key. You guys can deal with that hot mess.

 

[Cain_Fastus]

If I'm making the profile, I will not include an Extended Canon key. You guys can deal with that hot mess.

I dont think its have a an extended canon

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

i honestly don't think 2747 has much of an EC, but 3125 definitely does

 

[Cain_Fastus]

i honestly don't think 2747 has much of an EC, but 3125 definitely does

3125 have an extended canon!?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

thats the memetics department series iirc