Narratives, Tiering, and Low 11-C (Staff only)

[Cain_Fastus]

thats the memetics department series iirc

Ohh, regardless if scp 2747 have an extended canon it will be somehow related to Mekhane or maybe not

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

thats the memetics department series iirc

The profile is already based on that, lol. That's why it's marked as unknown.

3125 was written for the Antimemetics canon, ergo the canon applies to its file canon.

 

[Agnaa]

2747 is related to 3043 through extended canon but that never really went anywhere.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

i'd say Unknow, since N/A isn't an official thing (even though, in the case of the Absolutely Safe Capsule, it kinda makes sense) and it's something like -(infinity*3)+3-Dimensional, which most likely just doesn't work or make any sense

 

[Agnaa]

I wasn't pushing for N/A, I was thinking either 11-C or Unknow since we don't necessarily treat reality-fiction as infinitely many dimensions (making it -3+3 dimensional, 0 dimensional). But I can see where you're coming from.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

i thought 11-C was a very odd high-ball for this, since, even without High 1-B narritives, 2747 ends up at -(some really ******* large number)+3-Dimensional, which still has the whole "how the hell do we do anything with negative dimensional stuff" issue

 

[Cain_Fastus]

God damm it scp why making tnings complicated?

 

[Agnaa]

...

Bump.

 

[Cain_Fastus]

So im safe to assume that this scp is getting profile

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I feel like "Low 11-C" might be a good solution for the Unknown here, as if it is below having zero dimensions, we would understand it's existence just about as much as any 1-A/Tier 0 character, with the difference being the exact reverse.

Although adding an new subtier for one character is probably a bit much.

 

[Wokistan]

I mean, there are only four low 1-Bs, one 11-C, one 11-B, and an inferiority to dimension doesn't seem like something super exclusive to scp. Look at all the 1-As, which is admittedly superiority, but still. Knowing this site, soneone'll probably find another.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Hm.

If Agnaa could rework the main post as a proposal for that, and fact that DarkLK admitted this is something they overlooked, I might feel like this is worth a highlight.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think that this thread is important enough to highlight.

I also definitely do not think that we should start messing with our tiering system for the sake of a single character.

It is probably better to just avoid creating a profile for the character, or to give it "inapplicable" statistics.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

One of the major issues is that Pataphysics is beggining to play into many of the other characters, who have keys that derive from composites of their tales on the wiki.

For example, Swann's Proposal is one of the very first pataphysics scips, and it plays directly into numerous, numerous tales regarding this.

It's less of a "one character" thing, and a "the whole verse is starting to do more and more of this" thing.

 

[Agnaa]

I do not think that this thread is important enough to highlight.

I also definitely do not think that we should start messing with our tiering system for the sake of a single character.

It is probably better to just avoid creating a profile for the character, or to give it "inapplicable" statistics.

I mean, we're not changing any of the other tiers of the system, and this website has created tiers for single characters before.

The Monarch of Pointland was originally "Very Very Low 10-C", since that was the lowest tier at the time. 11-C was made specifically for this character.

Also, I'm not done reading up on this branch of the foundation yet, but there's 4 dozen pages tagged as "narrative", and many of those have similar below-fictional shenanigans, and have noteworthy enough hax and notoriety to warrant a profile.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, maybe we should give such characters inapplicable statistics then.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Negative Dimensions kinda makes no sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed. It is best to avoid such profiles as much as we can.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not sure if we should appeal to common sense. Above dimensions defies intuition, but it has an unambiguous spot in our tie ring system. I wouldn't call it "negative dimensions", but rather "below dimensions", any character with a number of dimensions, even zero, would be qualitatively superior to it.

It isn't unknown, and it isn't inapplicable, it just doesn't exist in the system yet.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I personally think that N/A is a valid description for at least a few characters. My thoughts are that is should be for characters who either literally can't fight, but can't be hurt either or beings who can fight, but fall outside of the regular tiering system and are basically immposible to find matches for (like 2747)

@Agnaa, That does make a bit more sense, although we'd have to basically work with anti-1-A for characters like this to see who is more "below dimensions" than another

 

[Agnaa]

And that's perfectly fine, I think an anti-1-A is something that makes sense for this system to have.

 

[Antvasima]

I much prefer to simply give the few characters that qualify "N/A" or "Unquantifiable" statistics.

 

[Agnaa]

DarkLK said it was something that he overlooked, should I ask DontTalkDT?

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know if that is necessary. It is probably better to simply give them "N/A" or "Unquantifiable" statistics than starting to mess with the tiering system.

 

[Agnaa]

I understand, please eventually tell me if/when you'd ever consider adding a Low 11-C tier.

 

[Antvasima]

I most likely won't consider it. Sorry.

 

[DarkLK]

Technically, if the "fictional" world is no different from the "real" world, even if it is a fiction within another fiction, then it probably still should be viewed as just a virtual world or even as an equivalent to reality (in some cases "reality" can be assessed above). Quite a lot of Verses use a reality-fiction hierarchies.

 

[Agnaa]

Within the verse this is from, even the "real" world which is used as the point of perspective for the profiles, is just one "narrative" in an infinite stack of narratives.

 

[DarkLK]

It is quite possible that in this case we simply need to equate the lowest level of narration as the equivalent of reality, and considered all the higher perspectives as equivalent of higher dimensions.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Each narritive contains infinite spatial dimensions, so just going down single dimensions isnt going to work

 

[Agnaa]

There aren't narratives told from the perspectives of lower reality, but there are a dozen or so beings which travel between those narratives, or can compress higher ones to lower ones.

Also, each of these narratives quite possibly themselves each have infinite dimensions.

 

[Antvasima]

This does not seem well suited for classification within our system.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

A lot of SCP isnt, since they aren't specifically made to fight stuff (Most of the time at least)

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not exactly sure if these narratives have infinite dimensions (they're likely just metafictional stories written by normal authors, unlikely to have infinite dimensions in them), but if they are "narratives" in the conventional sense of the word, then they would have infinite dimensions.

imo it is well suited for classification, it is a hierarchy-based system, and this is just an infinite expansion of the bottom-end of the system, not affecting any other tiers and not requiring any further expansion in the future.

 

[Antvasima]

I personally think that such a subjective system would end up with every inhabitant of higher order of the narrative hierarchy at High 1-B or 1-A, even if they are just regular mortals within their own levels of existence. As such, these types of fictions are ill-suited to feature within our system.

Then again, I/O is also built on this principle.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

It's more relative than subjective, since a human in a narritive just below 2747 would perceive it as high 1-B (potentially 1-A, as it is above their infinite dimensional narritive)

 

[Agnaa]

I personally think that such a subjective system would end up with every inhabitant of higher order of the narrative hierarchy at High 1-B or 1-A, even if they are just regular mortals within their own levels of existence. As such, these types of fictions are ill-suited to feature within our system.

Then again, I/O is also built on this principle.

Maybe I was a bit misleading with how I phrased things.

There are only 3 characters, and 1 group of one of those characters' avatars, that are absolutely definitively from a higher narrative. The other dozen or so are from lower narratives, with a few that can travel between narratives, but are never shown higher than the main reference one.

The only characters that would be High 1-B/1-A are the top eschelon of the god-tiers

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

@Agnaa, iirc, the narritives and most god-tiers are getting high 1-B, and 1-A was a bit if a stretch tbh (for what I said, not the whole vetse)