Nagito Komaeda vs Kaiji Itou

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

A uno game is simpler than a world domination plan. And Kaiji starts off very aware at the very least. When luck gets way too ridiculous, it's awesome, but in this case there are limitations and people still foiled his plan. I'm not gonna compare luck between others though in danganronpa since from the start luck is a hard thing to gauge.

This is the only thing I'm saying tonight. It can go either way the simpler the game is.

 

[Megaboy_Prime]

I have to say that Kaiji is used to playing and rigging games as best as humanly possible and thus, rigging a card game would be easier to him than creating a manmade global scale disaster that significantly changes the society and tip of the balance of Harmony

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Exactly.

If Nagito luck can thwarted a very complex plan (If not because Izuru), then a simple plan like this is a child play to his luck.

 

[Megaboy_Prime]

I mean, i must say those two are very different things.

Does Izuru have a skill to rig gambling games?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Izuru has all the talent from all Ultimate Student, including "The Ultimate Gambler" from Celeste amd Nagito "Ultimate Lucky Student". They are also better than the original, which is the sole reason why Nagito failed to stop Junko plan.

 

[Megaboy_Prime]

Yeah, but Nagito is not the Ultimate Gambler.

If Kaiji rigs the game to absurdity (Like in the The Man Eater Pachinko arc) to the point luck is not a factor, what can Nagito do?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Nagito doesn't need to be ultimate Gamble to mess with someone plan.

Junko talent is the "Ultimate Analysist" and she was almost screwed cuz Nagito luck.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Having Izuru WAS part of her plan, tho.

m

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

But Izuru never actually joined her in the first place. He was just there cuz he felt bored with....basically everything around him. Junko didn't even considered Nagito to find out her hidden base.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Did she? I tought having Izuru join her was part of her plan to keep her secure.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

No, Izuru basically was there for lolz.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

I've never heard of Nagito needing to be some sort of Gambler Talent just to screw up Itou's plan. Well, with intelligence, probably gamblers around or above Celestia or probably around Kamukura's gambling level, yes. But even with knowledge of it or without knowledge of it, his luck can do that regardless.

With his luck, he can manage to get information he doesn't know or screw up preparations if possible. Even without his intentions, just as Homu said. He can completely ruin his plans and manipulation, after what we've saw in every Danganronpa scenarios, it's possible. His luck won't just affect how he and Itou could win but he could affect his preparations so that his cheats and manipulation won't work as well, and after that it could go either Komaeda's way or inconclusive due to imprecision of the match.

I think what Homu meant here is that compared to the absurdity of Enoshima's plans, Itou's preparation is child's play. No matter what intentions or topic it is. Which means Komaeda holds the luck to be able to screw his preparations over, specially at that level.

RapidMotorcycle19: Having Izuru WAS part of her plan, tho.

Not entirely sure, it could be that but Komaeda put up a good fight. He gained information and even made a move by telling Pekoyama and his classmates about it. Which would mean, he knew her plans. (I don't know why Enoshima asked him on how about how much he knew about them if she had her talent).

About Kamukura helping her, it wasn't her move, it was his own decision and "The Steering Committee's" plan helped as well. While The Steering Committee weren't people that would kill or are murderous, they are likely almost tyrannies as they would do inhuman experiments underground and hides them to keep a good school image which help Junko, whoever's aware or not (they are greedy and arrogant), because of that, it was unclear if it was really her intention but her intentions were most likely to show and make Kamukura experience despair rather than him helping her, possibly because of her despair fetish or she wanted to show how fun Despair it, specially knowing how bored Mr. Kamukura is. (And then Nanami's the opposite and made him want to understand and comprehend which is more unpredictable, Hope or Despair).

TL;DR: Kamukura wouldn't help her because he wants to see which is more unpredictable, hope or despair and he only started "moving" for self-defense when Komaeda pointed a handgun at him. Enoshima also didn't consider the possibility of Komaeda to intrude in some way.

You might ask me, what's up with that? His luck can't do things twice in a row? Can he? Well, he can. Naegi simply had a day where he changed a lot of things with his luck and it's much and much weaker and comes "less" than Komaeda even though it was already absurd. If you want proof, check Makoto Naegi Secret File for confirmation.

Now, I might be going off the topic here. Again, Inconclusive or Komaeda, knowing how absurd his luck is, Komaeda can win this. Unless there's more of Itou and more absurdities up in his sleeve, Komaeda or Inconclusive but I vote for Komaeda since there are a lot of evidences backing it up, for now. Inconclusive if you go for Good Luck and Bad Luck cycle which makes the match unpredictable but I'll go for Komaeda as it's the most plausible for me so far.

Change my vote to Komaeda.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i feel like nagito's absurd luck will even ruin the cheat somehow and this guy has a whole bunch of WTFs afaik happen. So i feel like Nagito can get out of the situation FRA

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Right,change my vote to Komaeda FRA.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

....

Can we really add this kind of match up?

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

This looks like some kind of "Fun and Games" type of thread though, not really sure.

 

[Megaboy_Prime]

It can be added

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Shameless advertisement

 

[Megaboy_Prime]

Anywho, Nagito´s luck comes after suffering a misfortune.


Kaiji ******* suffers every single game he plays. He goes full zetsubo like no one in danganronpa has ever done. He suffers a shit ton of dispair.

He has been on the brink of being sentenced to death, has had his fingers cut, lost all of his money trying to defeat the CEO of a company of loan sharks, etc, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hORG93gbs5I


That is Nagito´s luck´s biggest weakness.

If it is "lucky" to break Kaiji´s plan, the amount of zetsubo he could cause Kaiji is enough in my eyes to have misfortune come back at Nagito and win Kaiji the game.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

Anywho, Nagito´s luck comes after suffering a misfortune.

Not really sure about that. It's very iffy, which is why I don't bother to analyze how his luck really works.

Some say that and some say it was more of the others that experiences his misfortune, as his alternate (in Danganronpa 2.5) where Nagito is unlucky, he causes luck around him instead.

Misfortune can turn into Good Luck. Take a look at Naegi's case:

• He accidentally slipped on a paper which was unlucky but avoided a flying wrench on his way to wreck his head in the process.

or

• Him having a cranky bathroom door which Monokuma commented on as him being unlucky but was the sole reason how he got avoided being accused in a class trial.

So, technically, as long as luck has an opportunity to make itself good luck, it will. Sometimes, Komaeda isn't always unlucky so that he could get lucky or vice versa, he's just plain out very lucky. Maybe an example for that was causing a landslide to defeat his enemies by just kicking a pebble.

Doesn't change much, if he gets plain out lucky, he wins. But if he gets a little bit unlucky, he still wins knowing that his luck does a lot of things but if it's bad enough, maybe Inconclusive. Which isn't likely because his good luck is so high that it overwhelms the bad luck in the process. So, it could still be Komaeda's win in either way. Could be inconclusive if his luck destroyed the game/match itself, which would be funny.

Would be hilarious if Komaeda won and then Itou despaired, then Komaeda commented and rambled about Itou's despair and became a weirdo again.

 

[Megaboy_Prime]

Nagito got Frontotemporal Dementia and malignent lymphomia in its third stage.

He has a uncurable dissease that litearlly rots his brain and has 2 more years of life at best and he has cancer all around his limbs.

He HAS a cycle of bad luck and good luck.

He was kidnapped (bad luck) and found the lottery ticket (good luck)

Got accepted into Hope´s peek (good luck) but got stuck in the "killing game" (Bad luck.)

.

Hell, one of the biggest plot points in Danganronpa 2 is him trying to cause as much dispair as possible to make the ones with talent shine with hope, this is no different for Kaiji, who literally suffers to almost death every game he has been in, only to rise in the brink of defeat.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Not sure how his "Disease", if it's legit, is relevant in here.

The Hope Peak you're referring to was actually just a rehabilitation program which got rigged by Izuru for lolz. His luck has nothing to do with him getting struck in a killing game.

The point is that his luck, in the end, makes things to be in his favor.

This is "battle" for 1,000,000 Yen. Nagito ain't gonna aiming to cause Kaiji into despair. That is Junko job.

 

[Megaboy_Prime]

I know, damnit.

But Danganronpa 3 states that he was at some point, actually accepted into the real hope´s peek.


Nagito literally wanted to cause dispair in order to inspire the ultimate sto create hope, tho.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

Again, that's why I said it was very iffy. There are proofs that he's lucky and he gets unlucky or vice versa but there are times that he just gets "plain good luck".

His cycle of good luck and bad luck is unpredictable, maybe only Enoshima knows. If you're going that direction, that's Inconclusive. Which was my reasonings above, if you read them again. As I said, his good luck and bad luck cycle makes the situation unpredictable. Maybe only Enoshima knows again.

Him being accepted in Hope's Peak and then getting stuck in "The Killing Game" wasn't Komaeda's exclusive experience and his luck. There was a lot of time gap before that happens, the same with Naegi and that all happened pretty much to all students in Hope's Peak Academy. Also, he probably got to the school before Enoshima did, so it's invalid. Also, true, they are lucky but that pretty much happened to most students in Hope's Peak Academy. So, which would mean everyone's Ultimate Lucky Students and no one's lucky after all. It's all balanced (just kidding).

The last argument was just his motto and his mindset. Sure, it could be a relation towards his luck pattern but no solid confirmation so far which was my theory last time that I put in my profile. That his "Frontotemporal Dementia" affected his mindset somehow or something entirely different but that's unlikely because his insane luck was actually the reason why his personality is weird and theoretically that his luck could work if it's convenient for him, then it would be plausible that his luck pattern could be why it's like that but they didn't bother confirming this otherwise. (No one cares about my theory anyways). It's more of a concept about his twisted imagery of Hope and Despair. As great hope comes after true despair or something along those lines and left unanswered if it correlates with his luck cycle.

Your other statements are weird for this match but I would agree with your "Frontotemporal Dementia" and the "kidnap" argument otherwise. It would also result Inconclusive as bothering to analyze his cycle of luck is just trying to know what does Doflamingo's eyes look like if he is not using his glasses. Well, but if he gets unlucky, he'll just get lucky after that could possibly overwhelm the bad luck which could still result to his win. Though, the Frontotemporal Dementia could be a lie as it's very unclear. So, not a good one either. I actually just got confused.

or again, Komaeda's win if he's plainly lucky as his luck isn't always "good luck to bad luck or vice versa". It's luck, so at the end, it will always go to his favor. Which is why I am going for his win.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

And how is get enrolled into an elite school considered unlucky? He even entered Hope Peak before Junko did. Him getting struck into a killing game has nothing to do with his luck. That is Izuru doing.

And how is that relevant in here again?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

This is exactly what makes debating about this luck thing such a pain. There are so many things you can interpret and so many ways it can go.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

UNO Rig bump

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

This is exactly what makes debating about this luck thing such a pain. There are so many things you can interpret and so many ways it can go.

-CoreOfimBalance(COB)

I agree but the main point I am trying to state here is that Megaboy Prime is just plain wrong to assume that his luck only works with "bad luck" after or before a "good luck" when I literally stated Komaeda's feat about causing a landslide by kicking a pebble, there was no bad luck happening there, which means the "cycle" that he was talking about is not really solid.