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Alternate title: Azzy has Beef with Another Franchise He Likes -- Revengeance
These are a few issues I've noticed with some of our MLP:FiM pages that I feel need to be corrected. I'll be up front and say that all of them are basically downgrades.
"But Azathoth, why would y-"
Silence, nerd! These changes aren't too major in the grand scheme of things. MLP's top tiers will remain Tier 4, and I'm not going to purge a massive list of abilities from everyone's pages. That said, I do feel these are quite important in regards to the higher tiers, as well as some of the scaling.
The Chronicles of Sunbutt: Moving the Same Thing in the Same Setting but Faster Somehow Requires Less Energy
This is the long one, but also the most important.
Currently, all of the top tiers are scaled to two calcs, both of which reached low-end Solar System level by using the relativistic KE of Celestia moving the sun. Looking back, I have some major issues with these (the first more so than the second, as the second's only problem lies in the actual show) that I'll try to explain in detail.
Regarding the first one: First of all, the speed in the first calc is 0.953c. The cutoff point for relativistic KE is 0.93c according to our own Kinetic Energy Feats page. Second, even assuming the cutoff point has changed to 0.96c, this is a difference of just above 0.007c, which is so small in comparison that even accounting for margin of error likely pushes us over that higher threshold. This on its own is extremely shaky.
Regarding both: I am very uncomfortable using the relativistic KE of an object that is consistently moved at FTL speeds, including by Celestia herself. For instance, you have:
Twilight boosted by all Alicorn magic moving the sun at FTL+ speeds.
Discord moves the sun at FTL speed.
The Storm King moving the sun at ludicrously FTL speeds.
Celestia herself moving the sun at FTL speed.
With just stuff off the top of my head, instances of "the sun being move faster than the speed of light" are double the number of "the sun moves really close to the speed of light but not quite". Do you see where I'm going with this?
The sun is consistently moved at speeds beyond that of light, and the times it was moved at under lightspeed, let alone 0.93/096c, have to be actively searched for. It's nonsensical to say the feat of Celestia moving the sun >0.8c is beyond the Storm King's feat of flinging the sun around the sky, when his feat is purposefully done to show just how much more powerful he's becoming (having all the princesses' magic stored in the staff) and how casually he's doing it.
I'm going to give you a hypothetical situation.
Say character X throws a planet the size of Earth or a bit larger across the solar system at FTL speeds. Said feat would be rated as Planet level (or "At least Planet level" depending on how easily it was done) due to Earth's GBE, but we wouldn't be able to derive a relativistic KE value due to moving above the speed of light.
Character X throws the planet again, this time at much, much higher FTL speeds. Same result, but better speed. Keep in mind that it's still the exact same object.
Now say he throws it a third time at what's calculated as extremely high relativistic speeds. Said feat is calculated as Star level. Would we then rate him as Star level and retroactively say him doing the same thing before was also Star level?
No. Because we've explicitly seen him move the same object at FTL speed. It's been made very clear from this that it's not abiding by relativistic KE, and to say that it is because of the one time it moved at Rel+ speeds, despite the multiple other times it clearly moved FTL, is disingenuous.
Rating Celestia and anyone else at her level as 4-C/Star level is a lot more accurate. With the current AP chart, anyone more than 2x her power or so would be Large Star level. If the changes ever go through, it would probably be "At least Star level". Discord may have some kind of Large Star level feat I'm forgetting, though.
Dear Princess Celestia, Today I Learned that I Don't Scale to You
Normal Alicorn Twilight's "At most 4-B" (which would become "At most 4-C" with this going through) really doesn't need to be there. All the reasons for her scaling are pretty damn bad.
"Should be roughly on par with the other Alicorns"
Nothing suggests this. Twilight has consistently been portrayed as inexperienced and relatively weak (albeit with great potential) compared to the other princesses. In fact...
"though Twilight does not believe herself capable of moving the sun and moon."
Understatement. When Twilight asks the princesses to move the sun and the moon for a party and they question it, Twilight responds that she'd do it herself, but she doesn't have their magic. This gives us two options. Either Twilight isn't strong enough to do this, in which case Twilight doesn't scale, or she would need their magic because it's a specific ability, in which case it scales to no one due to not being AP at all (I prefer the former, as it's really just large-scale telekinesis). Even if we assume Twilight only meant she couldn't move both, so just the moon and not the sun, she'd cap out at Low 4-C/Small Star level, and even that is being extremely generous considering she's never done anything remotely close to this level and is consistently inconvenienced by relative fodder.
"The Pony of Shadows believed Twilight to be almost on par with Starswirl, despite their brief interaction"
Twilight's final means of scaling is due to a being who was extremely weakened and had just returned after thousands of years of banishment believing her to be comparable to a guy whose only 4-C feat nearly drained all of his power in a book that's no longer canon. I shouldn't have to explain this one.
So yeah, Twilight is being incredibly overestimated based on what we know about her, right now. Pretty sure the only other person this affects is Starlight Glimmer. The Pony of Shadows itself, when restored to full power, tanked the Elements of Harmony (which obliterated both Nightmare Moon and Discord) and was viewed as a threat to Equestria that the princesses couldn't stop. That's way better reasoning for him to scale to Tier 4 than being above Starswirl.
I was gonna throw in a third section about the Elements, but I'm tired, so I'll do that another time.
These are a few issues I've noticed with some of our MLP:FiM pages that I feel need to be corrected. I'll be up front and say that all of them are basically downgrades.
"But Azathoth, why would y-"
Silence, nerd! These changes aren't too major in the grand scheme of things. MLP's top tiers will remain Tier 4, and I'm not going to purge a massive list of abilities from everyone's pages. That said, I do feel these are quite important in regards to the higher tiers, as well as some of the scaling.
The Chronicles of Sunbutt: Moving the Same Thing in the Same Setting but Faster Somehow Requires Less Energy
This is the long one, but also the most important.
Currently, all of the top tiers are scaled to two calcs, both of which reached low-end Solar System level by using the relativistic KE of Celestia moving the sun. Looking back, I have some major issues with these (the first more so than the second, as the second's only problem lies in the actual show) that I'll try to explain in detail.
Regarding the first one: First of all, the speed in the first calc is 0.953c. The cutoff point for relativistic KE is 0.93c according to our own Kinetic Energy Feats page. Second, even assuming the cutoff point has changed to 0.96c, this is a difference of just above 0.007c, which is so small in comparison that even accounting for margin of error likely pushes us over that higher threshold. This on its own is extremely shaky.
Regarding both: I am very uncomfortable using the relativistic KE of an object that is consistently moved at FTL speeds, including by Celestia herself. For instance, you have:
Twilight boosted by all Alicorn magic moving the sun at FTL+ speeds.
Discord moves the sun at FTL speed.
The Storm King moving the sun at ludicrously FTL speeds.
Celestia herself moving the sun at FTL speed.
With just stuff off the top of my head, instances of "the sun being move faster than the speed of light" are double the number of "the sun moves really close to the speed of light but not quite". Do you see where I'm going with this?
The sun is consistently moved at speeds beyond that of light, and the times it was moved at under lightspeed, let alone 0.93/096c, have to be actively searched for. It's nonsensical to say the feat of Celestia moving the sun >0.8c is beyond the Storm King's feat of flinging the sun around the sky, when his feat is purposefully done to show just how much more powerful he's becoming (having all the princesses' magic stored in the staff) and how casually he's doing it.
I'm going to give you a hypothetical situation.
Say character X throws a planet the size of Earth or a bit larger across the solar system at FTL speeds. Said feat would be rated as Planet level (or "At least Planet level" depending on how easily it was done) due to Earth's GBE, but we wouldn't be able to derive a relativistic KE value due to moving above the speed of light.
Character X throws the planet again, this time at much, much higher FTL speeds. Same result, but better speed. Keep in mind that it's still the exact same object.
Now say he throws it a third time at what's calculated as extremely high relativistic speeds. Said feat is calculated as Star level. Would we then rate him as Star level and retroactively say him doing the same thing before was also Star level?
No. Because we've explicitly seen him move the same object at FTL speed. It's been made very clear from this that it's not abiding by relativistic KE, and to say that it is because of the one time it moved at Rel+ speeds, despite the multiple other times it clearly moved FTL, is disingenuous.
Rating Celestia and anyone else at her level as 4-C/Star level is a lot more accurate. With the current AP chart, anyone more than 2x her power or so would be Large Star level. If the changes ever go through, it would probably be "At least Star level". Discord may have some kind of Large Star level feat I'm forgetting, though.
Dear Princess Celestia, Today I Learned that I Don't Scale to You
Normal Alicorn Twilight's "At most 4-B" (which would become "At most 4-C" with this going through) really doesn't need to be there. All the reasons for her scaling are pretty damn bad.
"Should be roughly on par with the other Alicorns"
Nothing suggests this. Twilight has consistently been portrayed as inexperienced and relatively weak (albeit with great potential) compared to the other princesses. In fact...
"though Twilight does not believe herself capable of moving the sun and moon."
Understatement. When Twilight asks the princesses to move the sun and the moon for a party and they question it, Twilight responds that she'd do it herself, but she doesn't have their magic. This gives us two options. Either Twilight isn't strong enough to do this, in which case Twilight doesn't scale, or she would need their magic because it's a specific ability, in which case it scales to no one due to not being AP at all (I prefer the former, as it's really just large-scale telekinesis). Even if we assume Twilight only meant she couldn't move both, so just the moon and not the sun, she'd cap out at Low 4-C/Small Star level, and even that is being extremely generous considering she's never done anything remotely close to this level and is consistently inconvenienced by relative fodder.
"The Pony of Shadows believed Twilight to be almost on par with Starswirl, despite their brief interaction"
Twilight's final means of scaling is due to a being who was extremely weakened and had just returned after thousands of years of banishment believing her to be comparable to a guy whose only 4-C feat nearly drained all of his power in a book that's no longer canon. I shouldn't have to explain this one.
So yeah, Twilight is being incredibly overestimated based on what we know about her, right now. Pretty sure the only other person this affects is Starlight Glimmer. The Pony of Shadows itself, when restored to full power, tanked the Elements of Harmony (which obliterated both Nightmare Moon and Discord) and was viewed as a threat to Equestria that the princesses couldn't stop. That's way better reasoning for him to scale to Tier 4 than being above Starswirl.
I was gonna throw in a third section about the Elements, but I'm tired, so I'll do that another time.
