My Hero Academia - Scaling Revisions [Student Edition]

[Earthyboy]

I do want to bring up Joint Training Arc Monoma again, to get your opinions on this.

During the arc Monoma lands a graze on Base Izuku, later on he activates Twin Impact as he's being carried off. Izuku is in 8% but the impact is strong enough to bruise him and draw blood. Twin Impact is stated to grant a second hit that is several times stronger than the first.

I know the viz translation says the second impact has more Oomph, but that's clearly incorrect. Putting the raws through google translation, which translates words rather literally, gives me several times.

度目の打撃は数倍の威力になる! (The second blow will be several times more powerful!)

Several meaning more than two but not many. So at the highest this should put Monoma's normal strength at 8.12/3 = 2.7 Tons or slightly above Baseline High 8-C.

At the lowest he'd be 8.12/11 = 0.73 Tons or Building level. As that's low we can go before it reaches a dozen, which is 12.

I think a 8-C, possibly High 8-C could work for his rating.

Monoma used Reiko's quirk in order to enhance the blow and used some nuts and bolts instead of a fist and proceeded to use Twin Impact to enhance it several times over. Clearly the hit isn't the result of his regular AP. Hell, he didn't even hit Midoriya himself.

Not only that, the hit only grazed Midoriya so it probably didn't do as much damage as it would've done if it hit his base directly, so that isn't a durability feat. And when Monoma used twin impact on Midoriya he used it on his nose. Which is an extremely fragile part of the human body. That already implies that the feat doesn't fully scale to 8% Izuku.

So to summarize, you can't scale this to Monoma or Midoriya. I believe I already explained the flaws with this argument before, so it's not worth going into more detail.

Removing his base stats entirely is a possible option. Though we would have to find alternatives for anyone scaling to base Deku (which should be few).

Aside from Rusty's point, we definitely shouldn't have it at unknown. Athletic feats or not, those are still athletic feats. If we're not putting him at 9-C or 9-B he should be 10-A at the very least. In terms of durability, he has withstood explosions that can crack concrete walls, although he is heavily damaged afterward.

I'm completely confident in the argument that he should be anywhere in between 10-A or 9-B. I also might try and calculate a few of his durability feats if possible or arrange a blog post.

 

[Earthyboy]

There's quite a bit of material that gives us information on Midoriya's base. So I'll just post it here;

• He literally lifted All Might on top of his back. It is confirmed that All Might weighs 255 kilos. Which would classify as Peak Human lifting strength. This was before he completed his 10-month training by the way.
• He also tanks numerous explosions from Bakugo, which are capable of cracking concrete walls. There’s even a calculation that puts this at Wall level.
• He can also harm Shinsou who scales to his durability.

Ratings for JT should basically be the same but should say his base is higher.

 

[Gitagon]

There's also another feat in the Deku and Bakugo vs All Might fight where base Deku gets hit by All Might's body after using New Hampshire smash and his Full Cowl comes off.

He then bumps into a bus in base and dents it while also tilting it slightly then bounces off asphalt with the only damage he receives being from All Might himself, not the bus nor the tarmaced road.

Also given the shocwave, we can assume that All Might's New Hampshire accelerates him at supersonic or supersonic+ speeds and having this transferred to Deku would mean base Deku hit the bus at similar or slightly less speed. There's also the height and distance to account for which is at least several tens of meters.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I just remember something, can't we use the mines from the festival to scale to people?

Since they weren't considered dangerous and a bunch of random people can survive stepping on them.

Doing a quick calc gets me 1065 kilojoules, which is a pretty solid 9-B rating.

Edit: Earthyboy, your calc is not Priority 1, Priority 1 means it scales to basically everyone in the verse. You should read this.

 

[Earthyboy]

I just remember something, can't we use the mines from the festival to scale to people?

Since they weren't considered dangerous and a bunch of random people can survive stepping on them.

Definitely possible, but you'll have to set the overpressure to 1 since the bombs weren't made to be lethal.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I was told the psi for explosions that aren't show to destroy anything should be a 5, where are you getting 1 psi?

 

[Earthyboy]

I was told the psi for explosions that aren't show to destroy anything should be a 5, where are you getting 1 psi?

If the overpressure was 5, it would be lethal, and fatal in some cases. It's like the moderate damage for bombs and is capable of breaking down buildings, which definitely shouldn't be used in a case where a bomb isn't meant to be lethal to anyone.

 

[TheRustyOne]

A mine explosion capable of launching people over 3 meters into the air is also very lethal to any normal human. What's not lethal to a superhuman can be very lethal to a normal human, those explosions shouldn't be launching people.

Either way I can use the mine Izuku used to launch himself and divide that by the number of mines we him stack, or I can use the anime to get the kinetic energy of the explosion. Do you have a source on a 1 psi explosion not harming anyone?

 

[Earthyboy]

A mine explosion capable of launching people over 3 meters into the air is also very lethal to any normal human. What's not lethal to a superhuman can be very lethal to a normal human, those explosions shouldn't be launching people.

But the thing is at 5 overpressure, you'd have a lot more damage than just being launched a few meters into the air. That overpressure level is capable of bringing down buildings, if not more. Hell, even at 3 psi residential buildings could collapse.

Edit: Also are you planning on making a thread about the guide books after this is over?

I haven't had the time to get started on it, but in the future I will.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

9-B base deku makes more sense to me than tier 8 base Deku

 

[TheRustyOne]

Won't Uraraka's durability be scale to 9-A because of this calc here?

 

[Damage3245]

Won't Uraraka's durability be scale to 9-A because of this calc here?

Possibly. Then again, it's not like she's being hit by the majority of those explosions each time. That factor is often overlooked.

 

[TheRustyOne]

You can see how close she in this panel, she's not that far from him and gets closer.

 

[Earthyboy]

Won't Uraraka's durability be scale to 9-A because of this calc here?

The calculation once again assumes 20 psi for some reason. Even though it's not shown to heavily crack or fragment the cement in an extreme manner. Better to use 5 psi at the very least.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Bakugo's explosions were destroying the ground, we saw him use such blast against her.

That's how she made her final move against him, by going low and letting him break the ground with his explosions.

Damage, do you think 20 psi in this calc is inaccurate?

Edit: In case anyone is curious, using 5 psi drops the results to 0.003 Tons or 9-B+.

 

[Metalballrun]

I'm inclined to think that the explosion Bakugo is using here is just as strong as the ones he used against Base Deku, if not stronger. At this point in the series, the power of Explosion is still based on size as Bakugo hasn't learned concentrating his explosions yet.

 

[Earthyboy]

Bakugo's explosions were destroying the ground, we saw him use such blast against her.

That's how she made her final move against him, by going low and letting him break the ground with his explosions.

Damage, do you think 20 psi in this calc is inaccurate?

Edit: In case anyone is curious, using 5 psi drops the results to 0.003 Tons or 9-B+.

Here's the problem. You can't use 20 psi just because the explosion destroys the concrete. It's capable of bringing down buildings if in the right size. Besides, 1-5 psi can also crack concrete. It'd be a safer bet to use those.

 

[TheRustyOne]

At that point no explosion is 20 psi unless it destroys a building, the requirement I was told and will use until stated other wise is that if it breaks concrete/rock, 20 psi is fine. In fact lots of Bakugo's explosions aren't 20 psi in this case, since they barely do anything.

I can only think of one explosion that'd be 20 psi in your case.

I want to see what Damage says.

 

[Damage3245]

Our guidelines currently state we just generally use 20 psi. If there's good reason to change it, then fair enough.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Basically 20 psi is fine, unless something points against it? Such as a blast hitting a wall and not even breaking it.

Considering Bakugo's blast are usually capable of destroy concrete/cement walls just fine, and was shown (In this same fight) to be capable of taking chunks of the ground with smaller blast than the calc one.

 

[Earthyboy]

Our guidelines currently state we just generally use 20 psi. If there's good reason to change it, then fair enough.

Thing is that we have a good enough reason. If the explosion was 20 psi the concrete and ground would've been thoroughly and completely pulverized. Bakugo's explosions didn't really do much to the ground other than destroy some cement.

At that point no explosion is 20 psi unless it destroys a building, the requirement I was told and will use until stated other wise is that if it breaks concrete/rock, 20 psi is fine. In fact lots of Bakugo's explosions aren't 20 psi in this case, since they barely do anything.

A lot of Bakugo's explosions should be 20 psi. The one in the first chapter completely destroyed a city block. The one in heroes rising pulverized the ground and created a crater. The one he used against his fight with Midoriya packed so much force that the ground shot up from just the impact.

Honestly, the fact remains that logically? There would be no reason to assume the explosion is 20 psi just because it destroys a few chunks of concrete when explosions that are 5 psi can do the same. I'd say that's plenty of reason to assume a value other than 20 psi.

 

[TheRustyOne]

The results would be 9-B+ (0.003) if we use 5 psi correct, or am I misunderstanding the formula?

What psi does the air burst formula use?

 

[BlackeJan]

So whats going on?

 

[Earthyboy]

The results would be 9-B+ (0.003) if we use 5 psi correct, or am I misunderstanding the formula?

That might be to outlierish considering the fact that Ochako has been damaged by explosions far smaller, along with the fact that Midoriya has been too. This is unfortunate considering 9-B+ seemed like a decent tier.

What psi does the air burst formula use?

We only use the air burst formula if the explosion was done in mid-air. In this case, the explosion was detonated relatively close to the ground, if not directly on it.

So whats going on?

The thread seems to be wrapping up. We just need to find a solid tier for base Midoriya and anyone who scales. This is excluding 8-C of course. Everyone seems to be leaning towards 9-C to 9-B though.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Your calc for base Izuku uses the air burst formula, so I assume it's 1 or 5 psi? That's why I was asking.

Does anyone else think 9-B+ for Uraraka is an outlier? He does another similar size explosion in the fight with Uraraka, it might be 9-B+ as well, let me check.

Edit: I'm getting 0.001 Tons, not 9-B+ but pretty close.

What happen to the explosion's heat causes damage, not the psi/pressure? Yeah they're hurt by smaller explosions, 8% gets injured by explosions smaller than the one he used against Uraraka. At what point can you say they're being injured by pressure, vs being injured by heat?

 

[Earthyboy]

What happen to the explosion's heat causes damage, not the psi/pressure? Yeah they're hurt by smaller explosions, 8% gets injured by explosions smaller than the one he used against Uraraka. At what point can you say they're being injured by pressure, vs being injured by heat?

The heat of Bakugo's explosions isn't really enough to leave any burn marks on Uraraka, so it's safe to assume most of the damage is done by force. I mean sure, All Might seemed to be in pain from getting hit by a few of his smaller blasts, but he was holding back on Bakugo and Midoriya immensely and the explosions were applied along a smaller surface area.

Your calc for base Izuku uses the air burst formula, so I assume it's 1 or 5 psi? That's why I was asking.

I don't think the airburst formula incorporates the use of overpressure. That seems to be exclusive to the ground explosion formula.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Well either way, how does this look to you?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Wait there are still some problems that the OP hasn't mentioned, but before that I need a summary of all the changes that have been agreed on.

 

[Earthyboy]

Well either way, how does this look to you?

The calculation seems fine. But Uraraka was injured by explosions far smaller than this one. We'd have to look at a few more explosions to determine if it's consistent or not.

Wait there are still some problems that the OP hasn't mentioned, but before that I need a summary of all the changes that have been agreed on.

Everyone seems to agree that base Midoriya should be at least somewhere in the reigns of Tier 9, mainly 9-B and anyone who scales to him should as well. War Arc Midoriya should probably reach 9-B+ or baseline 9-A considering how much stronger he got though. That should be fine. Everyone also seems to agree with the other arguments of the CRT as well. It'd be best to check with @Insert_creative_name_here_12 @Damage3245 @Gitagon @Metalballrun

 

[TheRustyOne]

The difference between Baseline 9-B and 9-A is over 1000x, unless you have another 9-B calc than Base Izuku is nowhere close to being 9-B+, let alone 9-A.

The anyone thing Uraraka 9-B+ is an outlier? I believe it's fine.

 

[Earthyboy]

The difference between Baseline 9-B and 9-A is over 1000x, unless you have another 9-B calc than Base Izuku is nowhere close to being 9-B+, let alone 9-A.

Well, isn't the Uraraka calculation close to 9-B+, which is already close to 9-A? It wouldn't be a stretch to have War Arc Midoriya at baseline 9-A.

 

[TheRustyOne]

We're scaling Izuku to Uraraka?

Upscaling needs a one shot I thought, there's a thread discussing it. Being stronger through training shouldn't upscale to 9-A I believe.

 

[Earthyboy]

We're scaling Izuku to Uraraka?

Actually, nevermind. I forgot Midoriya's base has no evidence of scaling to Uraraka.

 

[Earthyboy]

Also, I forgot to mention this. But we should probably downgrade Midoriya's reaction time. It shouldn't be supersonic as he got blitzed by Iida's Recipro Burst, and Todoroki couldn't react to it in time. Todoroki's ice being supersonic is debatable, but ultimately, Midoriya's base form doesn't seem to scale.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Todoroki ice speed did keep up with Iida's Recipro Burst and 5% Izuku when they pushed off the wall in Kamino. Todoroki wasn't blitz by Bakugo, nor Stain during their fight. And he did kinda dodge Iida's first Recipro Burst kick, though he was slower and couldn't react to his second kick.

I see no reason for Base Izuku to be Supersonic in reactions. Just Athletic Human then?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Todoroki ice speed did keep up with Iida's Recipro Burst and 5% Izuku when they pushed off the wall in Kamino. Todoroki wasn't blitz by Bakugo, nor Stain during their fight. And he did kinda dodge Iida's first Recipro Burst kick, though he was slower and couldn't react to his second kick.

I see no reason for Base Izuku to be Supersonic in reactions. Just Athletic Human then?

So is Base Deku’s Supersonic feat in JT getting removed?
Or are we just gonna say he got that much faster with training
Because athletic human to Supersonic is quite a spike but then again Deku went from 10-B to 9-B in a few months of training.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Edit: Oh right, forgot about that calc.

Yeah he should be fine, but only in the JT Arc. His BoS self won't be Supersonic.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Would it be alright to use the power of the explosion Izuku used in the Sports Festival, and then divided by the number of mines in order to get the power of a single mine?

Using 1 psi instead of 20 and dividing by eleven, which is the number of mines I can see. Doing that gives me 852 Kilojoules, a pretty solid 9-B rating which should scale to a bunch of the lower tiers students.

 

[Earthyboy]

Would it be alright to use the power of the explosion Izuku used in the Sports Festival, and then divided by the number of mines in order to get the power of a single mine?

Using 1 psi instead of 20 and dividing by eleven, which is the number of mines I can see. Doing that gives me 852 Kilojoules, a pretty solid 9-B rating which should scale to a bunch of the lower tiers students.

That should be fine since pretty much everyone and their mother withstood those bombs.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Wasn't there a 7A feat for 100% Bakugo and Deku?

Apparently it got calced with a different method (which I admittedly don't understand why it was used over what was currently accepted, the 7-A method was perfectly valid), went up to High 6-C with that method, and that High 6-C was soon deemed an outlier.