My Hero Academia - Scaling Revisions [Student Edition]

[TheRustyOne]

I also said Gang Orca and 5% wasn't an inconsistency, why is it inconsistent to you?

5% doesn't have a rating, so what's wrong with it being 4 (B) and having 3 (C) speed?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Until other people join in, I think I'm going to unfollow for now.

This conversation won't go anywhere anyway, so why bother?

 

[Earthyboy]

No Monoma physically hit Izuku, he was able to copy OFA because he made physical contact. If you make someone bleed from a punch you scale to them, have problem with that, change the wiki rules. Your nose thing means utterly nothing here and will not be regarded as being insufficient damage. Especially considering superhuman durability.

He hit Izuku, activated Twin Impact, which multiplied his strick by several times. So yes Monoma scales to At least 8-C, possibly High 8-C. The people above agreed with me as well. Actually Monoma jumps off the bolt he appeared on before hitting Izuku. I'm certain Monoma didn't even land a direct hit either, he only grazed his face. Since Izuku was surprised to see he copied OFA. Which further helps since a graze multiplied by several times can injure 8%.

He didn't physically hit him. You can actually see how he used the metal bolt to strike Midoriya, and then Shinsou realizes that was when he hit Midoriya. He used Reiko's quirk to launch the bolt at Midoriya, which would make the hit stronger than him just throwing it at him, and then he used Twin Impact to triple the strength of it even further.

And the wiki doesn't say that just because you can damage a person on any part of their body, you scale to them at full strength. That only true if the body part scales to the person's strength or the majority of their durability on their body. Obviously, a nose wouldn't.

Also the impact was on his cheek, not on his noise. Since his head went to the side, not backwards. It was just strong enough to make his noise bleed.

No, it was on his nose. You can visually see how it was bleeding.

Sending someone flying back means nothing, case in point, Endeavor punches Shigaraki away and doesn't scale. Both of their attacks did visually similar damage to Chisaki's arm. If Chisaki was thousands of times weaker he'd be dead from the 8% punch. Mirio and 8% Izuku are comparable to each other.

Endeavor caught Shigaraki completely off-guard and Shigaraki was in mid air. The attack didn't even do any damage via physical force. How do you even know their attacks did the same damage? The extent of Midoriya's attack isn't known since we never see how damaged Chisaki's left arm is.

Nighteye things is wrong as well, it only moves that fast because he's throwing it. They don't have little engines on them, and only weigh five kilograms. Their surface areas is far higher than a bullets, so that is false to. His seals appear bigger than a human knuckle. (Yes they'd hurt more than a punch, but not by a large amount)

Okay. That doesn't mean that the surface area wouldn't matter. In fact, we see how it leaves a huge dent on Chisaki's arm. They have a smaller weight than an arm and a smaller surface area. They would do far more damage to a specific point than a punch would.

Endeavor, Miriko, and Hawks are all faster than Hood. Despite the manga itself telling us the opposite?

I agree that that's an inconsistency. But at this point, you're just nitpicking the guides.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

So can these changes go through?

 

[BlackeJan]

Bump

 

[Earthyboy]

Additionally, we need to take care of the speed ratings for some of the students. To start with, it's been agreed that this calculation is faulty and doesn't take place within 100 milliseconds. Todoroki's ice was launched after Aizawa closed his eyes. You literally see it in the panel. Todoroki also wasn't able to dodge Iida's Recipro Burst, even when he expected it. Izuku couldn't even perceive it at all. Neither of them should be supersonic at that point in the series.

@Insert_creative_name_here_12 @TheRustyOne @Damage3245 Have we reached a conclusion on what to downgrade and upgrade yet? Most people seem to agree that some of the U.A students shouldn't be High 8-C. Along with some of Big Three being downgraded.

 

[Metalballrun]

So what's gonna happen with Todoroki's ice speed? Forgive me if I'm not understanding this correctly, but won't this make his ice actually faster?
Base Deku's supersonic reactions were based on reacting to Todoroki's ice. Todoroki's supersonic reactions were based on reacting (not dodging) to Iida's recipro burst.
Which is consistent needs to be figured out.

 

[Gitagon]

Honestly things have already changed so much at this point. Current base Deku should be far far superior to beginning of series base Deku by a huge margin in all aspects but especially durability from being able to withstand far higher OFA percentages and reactions from accumulated training time and battle experience.

 

[Metalballrun]

Honestly things have already changed so much at this point. Current base Deku should be far far superior to beginning of series base Deku by a huge margin in all aspects but especially durability from being able to withstand far higher OFA percentages and reactions from accumulated training time and battle experience.

Somebody should make a comprehensive post about this. It needs its own thread.
Whether Deku's durability relies on which percentage of OFA he's using, or that his durability increases relative to the maximum OFA output he can currently do. Speed probably shouldn't scale though but it's logical that his base increases.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I'm back. I agree with most of the downgrades.

I already agreed with dropping the Todoroki ice calc in another thread, it's faulty. Though Todoroki is rather strange, since he kept up with Bakugo in the festival and Stain. He was also able to fight villains with Bakugo during the Two Heroes Movie as well. I agree he doesn't scale to Recipro, but I'm not certain about downgrading him.

Also during the Kamino Arc, Todoroki was able to match Recipro Burst speed with his ice. 5% Izuku and Iida propelled themselves off a wall and Todoroki made an ice ramp for them after they already began moving.

@Metalballrun Why do we need to do that? I believe we've already agreed that Izuku's durability increases when using OFA, we base his durability off of his own feats. People agreed that Base Izuku took hits from Nine, so he has High 8-C dura. His AP will be put at Unknown, as he lacks any AP feats. Though his 8-B dura for his current key should be removed, due to that type of upscaling not being allowed.

For his BoS key I imagine he'll be Unknown in all stats, though I may be missing something there.

 

[Metalballrun]

I meant to say that if that was going to be discussed, then it needs a separate thread. I was just entertaining the idea that Izuku's durability is the same for his base and for using OFA but I don't really have evidence for that (and it's contradictory in some cases). Although there's logic in it.
Though that's fair, I'd actually prefer that we just go by feats anyways (although base Deku doesn't really have that much feats either).

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I agree with the downgrades
But if it means anything for Shoto’s Ice speed It should still be supersonic because he could intercept an amped Wolfram’s metal with ice right?
Who in base has it calced a little over Mach 1

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Shoto winds up supersonic regardless of the calc because he can block attacks from Stain who reacts to 5% and Iida. So removing it doesn’t really mean much other than removing a supporting feat I suppose.

 

[Earthyboy]

Also during the Kamino Arc, Todoroki was able to match Recipro Burst speed with his ice. 5% Izuku and Iida propelled themselves off a wall and Todoroki made an ice ramp for them after they already began moving.

It just seems like his ice is far faster than his reaction time, considering the fact that in the Sports Festival, he was unable to dodge Iida's, Recipro Burst. Maybe they should be separate keys?

@Metalballrun Why do we need to do that? I believe we've already agreed that Izuku's durability increases when using OFA, we base his durability off of his own feats. People agreed that Base Izuku took hits from Nine, so he has High 8-C dura

Can you show scans of him taking hits from Nine?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Here and Here, this is currently what is being used for Base Izuku dura.

I'll leave the Todoroki thing to you guys.

 

[Earthyboy]

Here and Here, this is currently what is being used for Base Izuku dura.

I'll leave the Todoroki thing to you guys.

Problems with these:

The first scan doesn't count since that attack KO'd them. Nine probably could've killed them if he put more effort into the attack. Nine's was getting weaker the more he fought in the second scan. Hell, the quirk he used against Bakugo and Midoriya there literally started to disintegrate. They also didn't receive any damage from the attack.

• It should be noted that this was the same quirk that broke Bakugo's ribs as well. They definitely shouldn't scale. Not only that, Katsuma's quirk amplified their physical performance.

There are just too many factors to factor in for this to actually scale to their base forms.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Does anyone else agree?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Problems with these:

The first scan doesn't count since that attack KO'd them. Nine probably could've killed them if he put more effort into the attack. Nine's was getting weaker the more he fought in the second scan. Hell, the quirk he used against Bakugo and Midoriya there literally started to disintegrate. They also didn't receive any damage from the attack.

• It should be noted that this was the same quirk that broke Bakugo's ribs as well. They definitely shouldn't scale. Not only that, Katsuma's quirk amplified their physical performance.

There are just too many factors to factor in for this to actually scale to their base forms.

I thought the reason for the scaling was that Bakugo has High 8-C dura yet both he and Bakugo can survive the same attacks instead of scaling off of Nine

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Deku was blasted by Nine’s air pressure quirk in Base and was not KO’d even after getting launched into a crater. This happens right after Nine tries to take OFA and he was not enhanced in anyway. He then gets pierced by the lasers and keeps standing.

Also, Deku was still conscious after he and Bakugo were hit with that air pressure quirk before being KO’d. That was after they were hit with lightning and Deku was already beat up. So saying he doesn’t scale because he went unconscious, when he was already barely conscious, doesn’t make a lot of sense.

 

[BlackeJan]

Base Deku scaling for High 8-C from Nine shouldn’t count at all. If Nine wanted, he could had killed both of them if he honestly felt like it but he was rather more interest in just getting the little kids quirk

 

[Gitagon]

I think the scenario with Todoroki's ice is just like war arc Deku and Black Whip where Black Whip is far faster than Deku himself.

 

[Earthyboy]

Let me pick this apart real quick.

Deku was blasted by Nine’s air pressure quirk in Base and was not KO’d even after getting launched into a crater. This happens right after Nine tries to take OFA and he was not enhanced in anyway. He then gets pierced by the lasers and keeps standing.

Nine's air pressure quirk was enough to withstand and push back 20% Midoriya. Base Midoriya should not scale to any of Nine's quirk. Unless you're saying his base somehow downscales from 20%? There's no plausible explanation for him being High 8-C. Nine could've literally killed Midoriya instantly if he wanted, via just his laser quirk. He obviously wasn't going all out. Nine's air pressure quirk is also shown to push back Midoriya when he uses One for All on several occasions.

Also, Deku was still conscious after he and Bakugo were hit with that air pressure quirk before being KO’d. That was after they were hit with lightning and Deku was already beat up. So saying he doesn’t scale because he went unconscious, when he was already barely conscious, doesn’t make a lot of sense.

The lightning pretty much one-shotted both Bakugo and Midoriya. Just because they're conscious doesn't mean they scale. They didn't even have the strength to hold back Nine and were pretty much desperate at that point.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Let me pick this apart real quick.


Nine's air pressure quirk was enough to withstand and push back 20% Midoriya. Base Midoriya should not scale to any of Nine's quirk. Unless you're saying his base somehow downscales from 20%? There's no plausible explanation for him being High 8-C. Nine could've literally killed Midoriya instantly if he wanted, via just his laser quirk. He obviously wasn't going all out. Nine's air pressure quirk is also shown to push back Midoriya when he uses One for All on several occasions

This is wrong in 3 ways.

First off, Nine never pushed 20% back with the air pressure part of Air Wall. The fact you’re arguing that in itself is an issue, as, beyond base Deku, that would imply Bakugo and 8% have 20% level durability for also taking hits from the air pressure. This part of your argument is just wrong unless you’re trying to claim everything as outlier except one instance just because, when that one instance didn’t even happen.

Second, by the logic of him insta killing Deku, why didn’t he do the same to Bakugo? Or why didn’t he insta kill them later in the movie when he was actually trying to kill them? According to your analysis, his air pressure quirk is comparable to 20%, yet Bakugo gets hit by it multiple times. Shouldn’t Bakugo be dead too? Also, he tried to kill Deku right after he blew him away, in his base, by piercing his chest with two direct lasers, and Deku literally just stayed standing. Interpreting Deku being able to survive these attacks as Nine not trying, when he most definitely was not only getting annoyed but operating on a time limit, is a gross assumption.

Thirdly, being able to push back 8% means nothing if we’re saying his base’s durability downscales from his percents anyway. The argument is literally that he has less but comparable durability, so Nine being able to hurt both Full Cowl and Base just agrees with the argument.

In terms of the lightning, we’ll chalk it up to Deku’s pain tolerance being abysmally higher than anyone else’s then.

 

[Earthyboy]

After watching a few scenes of the movie again, I realized that I got the scenes mixed up, as Nine never pushed back 20%. But there are still problems.

In terms of the lightning, we’ll chalk it up to Deku’s pain tolerance being abysmally higher than anyone else’s then.

Bakugo and Midoriya both got one-shotted by the lightning, no excuse. Explain to me why would he scale to something that basically one-shotted him?

Second, by the logic of him insta killing Deku, why didn’t he do the same to Bakugo? Or why didn’t he insta kill them later in the movie when he was actually trying to kill them? According to your analysis, his air pressure quirk is comparable to 20%, yet Bakugo gets hit by it multiple times. Shouldn’t Bakugo be dead too? Also, he tried to kill Deku right after he blew him away, in his base, by piercing his chest with two direct lasers, and Deku literally just stayed standing. Interpreting Deku being able to survive these attacks as Nine not trying, when he most definitely was not only getting annoyed but operating on a time limit, is a gross assumption.

Nine didn't hit Midoriya directly in the chest with his lasers. He hit the side of him. You can easily tell that his lasers would be able to pierce Midodirya's body. Midoriya didn't survive just because of his durability, he survived because of his pain tolerance and because Nine didn't immediately kill him. If Nine truly wanted to kill him immediately? He would've gone for the head or chest.

The fact is when Nine used his air pressure quirk against Midoriya? He could barely stand and struggled to get up. Not only that, Nine was easily able to deflect Bakugo and Midoriya's attacks throughout the entire movie.

So, to sum it all up here's the problems with these feats:

• If Nine truly wished to kill Midoriya immediately? He would've shot him in the head with his lasers. He gave Midoriya ample enough time to even stand on his own two feet. He was being casual the entire time. Nine is even able to easily push back Midoriya and Bakugo simultaneously while being casual. If he wanted to? He probably could've killed Midoriya by just using his air pressure quirk.
• The lightning feat literally one-shot both of them and they only were able to grovel at Nine's feet. They were about to be killed until Shoji and Koda rescued them.

Nine literally has dozens of opportunities to kill Midoriya, but he took his time. What would that imply? Go on, make the connection.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

After watching a few scenes of the movie again, I realized that I got the scenes mixed up, as Nine never pushed back 20%. But there are still problems.

Bakugo and Midoriya both got one-shotted by the lightning, no excuse. Explain to me why would he scale to something that basically one-shotted him?

Nine didn't hit Midoriya directly in the chest with his lasers. He hit the side of him. You can easily tell that his lasers would be able to pierce Midodirya's body. Midoriya didn't survive just because of his durability, he survived because of his pain tolerance and because Nine didn't immediately kill him. If Nine truly wanted to kill him immediately? He would've gone for the head or chest.

The fact is when Nine used his air pressure quirk against Midoriya? He could barely stand and struggled to get up. Not only that, Nine was easily able to deflect Bakugo and Midoriya's attacks throughout the entire movie.

So, to sum it all up here's the problems with these feats:

• If Nine truly wished to kill Midoriya immediately? He would've shot him in the head with his lasers. He gave Midoriya ample enough time to even stand on his own two feet. He was being casual the entire time. Nine is even able to easily push back Midoriya and Bakugo simultaneously while being casual. If he wanted to? He probably could've killed Midoriya by just using his air pressure quirk.
• The lightning feat literally one-shot both of them and they only were able to grovel at Nine's feet. They were about to be killed until Shoji and Koda rescued them.

Nine literally has dozens of opportunities to kill Midoriya, but he took his time. What would that imply? Go on, make the connection.

Here’s the issue I have with your stance: you’re assuming that, at the point in time Nine realized he couldn’t take One For All, and decided to get rid of Deku, he decided not to hit him with the same force of air pressure as he had been using against 8%. You’re assuming that I’m saying he’s not holding back, when the argument is simply that he’s using the same amount of force regardless of whether Deku is in Base or 8%. Him holding back is irrelevant, the force he’s using is the same.

The laser argument is becoming moot at this point because we’re arguing about a piercing move anyway, but I’m not going to ignore your ridiculous notion that “Because the bad guy didn’t instantly kill the hero with a clearly smart attack to the head, he must just be holding back.” Do you know how many times in fiction, heck in the Shonen demographic itself, that kill shots weren’t taken for seemingly no reason? Is this specific instance of Nine not shooting people in the head and only the head, over and over, supposed be some sort of outlier of his character? What is this argument even attempting to prove? Intent? If you’re claiming that him not going for head shots vs Base Deku means he was holding back, that means he was holding back the entire movie even when he was resolved to kill all the kids. Even when he hit Sero point blank with lasers, he didn’t aim for his head. Nine just doesn’t go for head shots, call it PIS or whatever, but it’s not an argument.

The lightning wasn’t even a one shot like you’re claiming, because they both had been severely injured literally right before he struck them with it. Or were you missing the part where Nine was breaking their bones, knocking them all around and piercing them with lasers? Remember how Bakugo, moments before fighting Nine, literally detonated his own gauntlet on top of himself and was hurt by it? Because I do. And heck, whether it would one shot them or not is irrelevant, because the entire point is that BOTH of them stayed conscious after getting hit with it, enough to even still move to grab Nine’s legs, and even after getting hit AGAIN by his air pressure, when he was STILL intent on killing them, Deku remained conscious enough to notice Nine’s weakness. That is a stamina feat for them, and a durability one for base Deku right after.

 

[Earthyboy]

Here’s the issue I have with your stance: you’re assuming that, at the point in time Nine realized he couldn’t take One For All, and decided to get rid of Deku, he decided not to hit him with the same force of air pressure as he had been using against 8%. You’re assuming that I’m saying he’s not holding back, when the argument is simply that he’s using the same amount of force regardless of whether Deku is in Base or 8%. Him holding back is irrelevant, the force he’s using is the same.

If he was using the same amount of force as he used against Midoriya when he fought him the second time, Midoriya would end up with a lot more damage than simply finding it hard to move. He literally molly whooped 8% Midoriya and Bakugo easily.

To debunk this quickly, I'll just compare his blasts.

Here's the blast he used against Midoriya the first time.

Here's the blast he used against Midoriya the second time.

Do you not see the difference? Nine didn't even need a second shield to push Midoriya back as he did in the later scan. It's obvious that he was nowhere near his full power. This wasn't casual, it's ******* effortless. Enough said.

he laser argument is becoming moot at this point because we’re arguing about a piercing move anyway, but I’m not going to ignore your ridiculous notion that “Because the bad guy didn’t instantly kill the hero with a clearly smart attack to the head, he must just be holding back.” Do you know how many times in fiction, heck in the Shonen demographic itself, that kill shots weren’t taken for seemingly no reason? Is this specific instance of Nine not shooting people in the head and only the head, over and over, supposed be some sort of outlier of his character? What is this argument even attempting to prove? Intent? If you’re claiming that him not going for head shots vs Base Deku means he was holding back, that means he was holding back the entire movie even when he was resolved to kill all the kids. Even when he hit Sero point blank with lasers, he didn’t aim for his head. Nine just doesn’t go for head shots, call it PIS or whatever, but it’s not an argument.

The problem here is that Nine's laser is easily able to pierce Midoryia's body with minimal effort, and even is able to pierce Bakugo and Midoriya's body at 8% respectively. Yet he chooses not to instantly kill him with a shot to the head? This is suggesting he's being extremely casual towards Midoriya. It's not a trope, in fiction, it's just common sense.

The lightning wasn’t even a one shot like you’re claiming, because they both had been severely injured literally right before he struck them with it. Or were you missing the part where Nine was breaking their bones, knocking them all around and piercing them with lasers? Remember how Bakugo, moments before fighting Nine, literally detonated his own gauntlet on top of himself and was hurt by it? Because I do. And heck, whether it would one shot them or not is irrelevant, because the entire point is that BOTH of them stayed conscious after getting hit with it, enough to even still move to grab Nine’s legs, and even after getting hit AGAIN by his air pressure, when he was STILL intent on killing them, Deku remained conscious enough to notice Nine’s weakness. That is a stamina feat for them, and a durability one for base Deku right after.

Staying conscious doesn't mean someone scales to your AP. If that was true, 5% Midoriya would scale to casual All Might because he withstood a New Hampshire Smash and withstood consciousness from it, despite the attack clearly being a lot stronger than anything 5% can dish out. They literally go knocked out the second time Nine used their air pressure blast on them. They shouldn't scale. Especially when you realize Nine gave them multiple broken bones.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

If he was using the same amount of force as he used against Midoriya when he fought him the second time, Midoriya would end up with a lot more damage than simply finding it hard to move. He literally molly whooped 8% Midoriya and Bakugo easily.

To debunk this quickly, I'll just compare his blasts.

Here's the blast he used against Midoriya the first time.

Here's the blast he used against Midoriya the second time.

Do you not see the difference? Nine didn't even need a second shield to push Midoriya back as he did in the later scan. It's obvious that he was nowhere near his full power. This wasn't casual, it's ******* effortless. Enough said.


The problem here is that Nine's laser is easily able to pierce Midoryia's body with minimal effort, and even is able to pierce Bakugo and Midoriya's body at 8% respectively. Yet he chooses not to instantly kill him with a shot to the head? This is suggesting he's being extremely casual towards Midoriya. It's not a trope, in fiction, it's just common sense.

Staying conscious doesn't mean someone scales to your AP. If that was true, 5% Midoriya would scale to casual All Might because he withstood a New Hampshire Smash and withstood consciousness from it, despite the attack clearly being a lot stronger than anything 5% can dish out. They literally go knocked out the second time Nine used their air pressure blast on them. They shouldn't scale. Especially when you realize Nine gave them multiple broken bones.

You trying to play the size card, but not addressing my actual example is not helping you persuade me. Right after Deku and Bakugo get hit with lightning, Nine blasts them with air pressure again. Unlike when he launched Base Deku into a crater, this Air Wall is comparable to his normal shields, if not slightly bigger. After getting hit with it, Base Deku is still conscious, despite all the injuries he had taken prior. Which means that, if he wasn’t as injured, he would be able to take that same level of attack and not be one shot. You’re stuck on this preconception that because they eventually passed out from several wounds over the course of fighting Nine, that any of those one moves would one shot them even if they weren’t injured, which is a ridiculous assumption with no backing, and is instead directly contradicted by the movie. Everything you’re attempting to say about Base Deku can be applied to Bakugo as well, yet you’re not calling for him to be downgraded as well.

You wanna talk about effortless? Bakugo was also pushed back by a single Wall, and that Wall was smaller than the one he used after they were hit with lightning. It’s almost like Bakugo and Deku have comparable durability or something to be hurt by the same level of attacks but only stay conscious until they take too many. Crazy concept.

You just debunked your own laser argument right there. “He can pierce 8% and Bakugo, so he should have insta killed Base Deku with a shot to the head.” This is self defeating. By your logic, why didn’t he shoot 8% and Bakugo in the head and instakill them. You’re not even staying consistent anymore. Him being able to pierce higher tier characters doesn’t suddenly mean him also piercing lower tier characters is him playing nice. He could kill literally anyone there with a laser to the head, not just Base Deku, that doesn’t help your argument at all.

Also, you ignored my point about Nine not blasting Sero right in the head when he was point blank to him and actively trying to kill him. Don’t partially respond to my answer, then try to deflect it.

Except the only reason an attack like that left them barely conscious is because they were literally getting severely hurt moments before he hit them hard enough to make them go unconscious. How have you made this scenario in your head that he can one shot them at full power with no difficulty? Like they weren’t taking several hits from him directly? If you beat someone up, then hit them especially hard when they’re already weakened, are you suddenly able to one shot that person? Especially when you don’t even knock them out? Midoriya staying conscious regardless of Nine’s attacks was literally what saved them as he made an entire plan on what he saw when Nine reached his limit.

If injured, broken bones, barely able to move, almost had One For All stolen, weakened, electrocuted BASE Midoriya, is able to stay conscious after getting hit with an attack that knocks an equally injured Bakugo out, that is a testament to his stamina and durability. Does it mean he has higher durability? No, it’s a better stamina feat because they were both injured. Does it create an implication for what his durability is like when he ISN’T on deaths door already? Yes, it absolutely does.

 

[Earthyboy]

Being able to stay conscious after an attack doesn't mean you scale to an attack. It's just a restatement to how much stamina and will power Bakugo and Midoriya have. In fact, they already had several broken bones, stated by the doctor. It's obvious they don't scale.

He also didn't shoot 8% Bakugo and Midoriya in the head because they wouldn't let him. They could dodge his attacks. The fact remains that he's toying with Midoriya. Not much you can say to debunk that.

To deal with the rest of your arguments? I'll just say this;

Nine is able to push back 8% Midoriya effortlessly. He manhandled Bakugo and Midoriya simultaneously and molly whooped them twice. This is indicative that he could probably take them out easily if they weren't working together. Yet, Base Midoriya downscales? Keep in mind, Base Midoriya is already four times weaker than 8% Midoriya, according to the wiki as of now. If Nine effortlessly deals with 8% Midoriya, what would that mean for Base Midoriya? Again, indicative that Nine isn't going all out.

If you somehow want more proof that Nine wasn't going all out? Just look at how many shields he used against Base Midoriya in comparison to how many shields he used against 8% Midoriya. It's obvious he wasn't trying. He can extend the number of shields he has equipped at will.

So why didn't he do the same against Bakugo and Midoriya the first time? He can literally summon several shields at once, and yet he only needed one for Base Midoriya and Bakugo. It's almost as if Nine was being casual against them?

The simple answer is... He's not going all out. You're even debunking yourself at this point because you've brought up the fact that both Bakugo and Midoriya had several broken bones solely due to Nine's air pressure quirk.

We even get a shot of what Nine's air pressure quirk can do at higher levels of power. This is a completely different Tier compared to the one he used against Midoriya the first time. This should cement the fact that he's not going all out against them, period.

If Nine truly was completely and utterly deadass about killing Bakugo and Midoriya? He would've used his Dragon Quirk against Midoriya to instantly break his ribs, and then use his laser to do further damage.

Let's do a recap here;

• Nine is able to summon several shields at once against Bakugo and Midoriya, and just one shield is enough to handle 8% of Midoriya slightly. But he didn't even need two shields to deal with Base Midoriya.
• Nine could've easily killed both of them if he used more of his quirks, but he didn't. It's obvious he's holding back, and we even see the full extent of his air pressure quirk when he used it against Mineta, Uraraka, and Sero.
• Nine broke Bakugo's and Midoriya's bones solely off of just using a low effort blast of his quirk which isn't even him going all out. Yet 8% Midoriya is at least able to stand after getting pushed back by multiple of his shields, even if they are casual? This says something about the gap between his base and 8%.

And you're excused for all of this is that they can stay conscious after all of this is that they can stay conscious? I call bullshit.

• Bakugo was able to stay conscious after All Might slapped him and one-shotted him with his obviously superior attacks.
• Midoriya was able to stay conscious after getting hit with a New Hampshire Smash, so he downscales from All Might? Obviously not, the New Hampshire Smash broke Midoriya's back.
• Midoriya was able to stay conscious after getting hit with one of Muscular's punches at 5%. Does that mean he downscales from Muscular's punch? No, the punch completely broke his arm.

It's obvious that staying conscious doesn't have much to do with being able to tank an attack. It's just a stamina thing along with the willpower to stay alive.

Also, you ignored my point about Nine not blasting Sero right in the head when he was point blank to him and actively trying to kill him. Don’t partially respond to my answer, then try to deflect it.

Sero got blown away from the shock-wave of Nine's air pressure quirk and his helmet broken. Him being durable enough to withstand a point-blank blast like that would be an outlier.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

The Nine scaling is inconsistent as heck and the only explanation is as Earthy said, Nine putting in more effort or holding back since going all out is hard on him or perhaps it’s arrogance

Base Deku took hits from Nine which might imply he scales but we know 8% is a notable increase in ability since Bakugo had trouble reacting to it. Furthermore we know AP wise even 5% is a notable boost as shown with base Deku vs a 1P bot and 5% vs Wolfram.

The fact that Bakugo survived an attack that 20% got taken down by is proof enough since we know Bakugo at this point is around 8-10% levels of power and 20% can snap the bones of characters on that level (as shown with Shin Overhaul) so Bakugo has no reason to handle attacks that can almost kill someone that far above him.

Heck the fact that Nine broke their bones with his attacks is pretty solid for him at least being on par with 20% in AP and I highly doubt anyone wants to sit there and pretend 20% is even remotely close to base Deku in power.

 

[Gitagon]

It's not rocket science that the more shield Nine uses the stronger his attacks are. He only uses 1 shield against base Deku, 2 or 3 against 8% and 20% and finally 7 against 100%.

In the first fight he wasn't that serious and was pretty casual but as the movie goes on he gets more desperate and keeps uping his game.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Bump.

I'd like to see Damage or Mitch's opinions on some of this stuff as well, as they're staff. But it seems like they've been busy with other problems.

If Base Izuku does indeed become Unknown in all stats, should we just remove his Base stats? It's mention in the OP and considering how little his base has done, I'm inclined to agree with it. Seems rather cluttered to keep putting a Unknown Base stat with every Key he gets.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Yeah Deku rarely fights in base and he straight up doesn’t against relevant people so there’s no point to it. After all we don’t have a key for base AM.

 

[Earthyboy]

While having his base sits at "Unknown" might be better than having it at 8-C. This would be ignoring the many feats he has accomplished without One for All.

• He lifted 255 kilograms on top of his back.
• Followed a harsh regimen to get his body in peak condition.
• Has a grip strength within the range of 55 kilograms.
• Withstood explosions strong enough to crack concrete.

It seems to me that Base Midoriya should be 9-C or 9-B in AP. With durability being more of the same.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Can I here a summary of the current arguments?

 

[TheRustyOne]

From my understanding, the current discussion is about Base Izuku's stats right now.

I got another translation about Izuku's 5% statement in the translation request thread.
"Even if I can succeed with my body as it is right now, I'll only be able to increase my power by a little bit."

This isn't being accepted since his Base has no feats comparable to 5%, I believe. Not that I can think of anything that would give him comparable AP.

Izuku's second Key's base dura is being argued to be downgraded as well. I'm not certain where this argument is going right now.

I believe the argument against the High 8-C dura is the possibility of Nine holding back whenever he attacked Base Izuku?

I can show all of the scenes of Base Izuku taking hits from Nine if anyone wants to seem them.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I definitely don't agree with making Base Izuku "Unknown"

Maybe we could got with a "Likely" or "Possibly" rating for Base Deku if we have some iffy scaling?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Base Izuku really has no feats beyond some Athletic Human stuff. He rarely fights in his Base so there is also talk of removing his base stats in it's entirety.

Though Earthyboy just mention at putting him at 9-C or 9-B. Though only one of the feats he mentions can possibly be 9-C or 9-B.

What sort of possibly or likely rating would he even receive?

 

[Damage3245]

Base Deku's durability for his first key is extremely iffy. Him jumping into a wall is not Building level+, and Gran Torino was only sparring with Deku. He's not going to be using anywhere near enough AP that he would in a proper fight.

Removing his base stats entirely is a possible option. Though we would have to find alternatives for anyone scaling to base Deku (which should be few).

 

[TheRustyOne]

I don't believe anyone besides Shinso only scales to Base Izuku.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I do want to bring up Joint Training Arc Monoma again, to get your opinions on this.

During the arc Monoma lands a graze on Base Izuku, later on he activates Twin Impact as he's being carried off. Izuku is in 8% but the impact is strong enough to bruise him and draw blood. Twin Impact is stated to grant a second hit that is several times stronger than the first.

I know the viz translation says the second impact has more Oomph, but that's clearly incorrect. Putting the raws through google translation, which translates words rather literally, gives me several times.

度目の打撃は数倍の威力になる! (The second blow will be several times more powerful!)

Several meaning more than two but not many. So at the highest this should put Monoma's normal strength at 8.12/3 = 2.7 Tons or slightly above Baseline High 8-C.

At the lowest he'd be 8.12/11 = 0.73 Tons or Building level. As that's low we can go before it reaches a dozen, which is 12.

I think a 8-C, possibly High 8-C could work for his rating.