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That's true. The storm feat hasn't been evaluated and we're still undecided on whether to use Earthyboy or Therefir's calc for the cube feat.
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My Hero Academia - Scaling Revisions [One for All AP Edition]
- Thread starter Earthyboy
- Start date
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We literally can't progress until Earthy comments on Therefir's calc
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There's literally a METRIC TON of evidence suggesting that Full Cowling 100% should be 6-C. The fact that Deku is able to put more force into his hits thanks to the added acceleration alone disproves you.
The movies are canon. There is no reason to discard them simply because they have some of the strongest feats in MHA. You need ACTUAL evidence, ANYTHING that would suggest that we can't use these, instead of just being biased to the feats because they're, "movie feats."
It's literally in the OP that Deku's One for All has been getting far stronger than All Mights. There's more reasoning other than Full Cowling 100% being hundreds of times stronger than Deku's regular 100%.
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- Thread starter
- #284
There's literally an entire explanation in the OP explaining why FC 100% could be 6-C outside of Deku just having more acceleration in his body.
What you're denying here is basic physics, and you're just sticking to the same argument which was debunked several pages ago numerous times. That is the definition of Ad Nauseum. Enough.
Therefir's calculation should be fine until I have the time to recall my version.
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Deku's body seems to take the same amount of damage from his 100% Full Cowl as he does from when he punches with 100% normally.
I find it very hard to believe based off of that, that Deku's usage of Full Cowl makes his power output increases by dozens or hundreds of times.
I find it very hard to believe based off of that, that Deku's usage of Full Cowl makes his power output increases by dozens or hundreds of times.
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- Thread starter
- #286
Oh, gee you think?
That's because Deku is just using 100% of One for All, but with his entire body, so the damage done to his body would be the same. The only difference is that the damage is distributed evenly throughout his body thanks to Full Cowl being used.
Moreover, it's been established the One for All doesn't damage Deku's body due to recoil, it damages it thanks to energy exploding internally inside him. The added KE of Deku's punches isn't what's gonna damage him, nor is it the recoil, it's his arms exploding inside out thanks to One for All.
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Those same barriers got 1-shot by Deku and Bakugo before 100% full cowl. Sure he used six instead of 3 whenever they broke them the first time but that still doesn’t support the massive jump in power.
Also Deku pushed those same barriers back by himself as well.
Very vaild point. If the jump was extremely high like they are suggesting deku’s body would not be able to handle it or it would be shown doing much more extreme damage to it.
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- #288
Once again, Deku is just using One for All at 100% throughout his entire body. The damage is gonna be the same. Recoil and newtons third is not what damages Deku's body. It's the energy from One for All exploding inside of him.
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No, this is the only time Nine uses those barriers in his full power state.
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He blocked one of bakugos attacks with those… Literally right before said scene. So 1 barrier can block bakugo yet Deku slaps through 6 of them with no problem? Doesn’t seem right especially when they are shown to be relative throughout the whole fight
Anyways those barriers in his previous form were getting pushed back and broken by Deku and bakugo while his other quirks stomped them. Pretty sure they don’t scale higher than his strongest attacks like the one Deku used 100% on. So your comparison doesn’t hold any logical sense.
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This is an absolute misremembering of the movie.
Deku and Bakugo never broke through Nine's barriers until the very end before he amped, when he was horrifically weakened from his debilitating condition. If you watched the movie, you would know that Nine's barriers were absolutely unable to be broken by Deku even at 20%.
If anything, his shields scale above his strongest attacks since his attacks don't one shot 8%
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An explosion’s power gets weaker as it goes from its epicenter, and we saw the explosion spreading out pretty far so it would’ve been weaker by the time it hit the barrier.
His previous form is also irrelevant to this discussion, but about that, they were only being pushed back once he’d hit his limit. Before then, not even 20% could dent a barrier from him.
ÆONS
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Yes. Next time Deku should throw a continent-busting shuriken. That'll teach 'em.
I feel your pain.
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Pretty sure that we only uses reverse law square in calcs because aplying that logic in a not heavy science series is kinda iiffy
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So am I good to just go ahead and apply the 7-B changes to the profiles. The FC 100% stuff is irrelevant to that, you guys can keep debating it if you want.
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7-B+ since Earthy seems to agree with Therefir's method. Though he also said he might recalc it later, but this is just for now.
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It would be "7-A" with 100%. Because that's as high as it can get, since High 7-A is 10x baseline, and that isn't flying.
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We're upscaling from a 7-B+ calc, so the most we can go is baseline 7-A
ÆONS
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Actually, Earthyboy said that Therefir's calculations should be fine until he is able to recall his own calcs. This might mean he is still not done evaluating the calcs.
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So just to get this straight:
6-C FC 100% Deku is due to the physics behind 100% in the whole body making him stronger than 100% in 1 limb, right?
And we accept that Deku could move with FC 100% due to Katsuma's quirk's temporary boost, right?
6-C FC 100% Deku is due to the physics behind 100% in the whole body making him stronger than 100% in 1 limb, right?
And we accept that Deku could move with FC 100% due to Katsuma's quirk's temporary boost, right?
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Therefir's version needs to be evaluated if we're going to use that one, since only the 7-A version was evaluated not the 7-B ones. So no profiles can change until that happens, unfortunately.
Metalballrun: That logic is absurd to me, since the physics behind that doesn't make someone hundreds of times stronger. A person who punches in mid air, can still produce weaker but comparable force while on the ground. Using that isn't good enough to justify such a massive jump, which means Izuku's current 100% in general has to scale to 6-C if the calc is evaluated and accepted.
I've already stated I'm neutral on the whole 6-C thing, but I cannot agree with Full Cowl being a amp that increases his stats by over hundreds of times. Since that's contradicted in a earlier arc. Todoroki can take a hit from one arm 5% Izuku and Recipro Burst in the sports festival.
While Stain can take a hit from 5% Full Cowl and was hurt by Recipro Burst. Which shows that Recipro Burst is comparable to 5% and 5% Full Cowl at the same time, it's likely a single arm use is weaker but it isn't enough to justify such a jump. What increases his strength according to the above is the physics behind using your whole body in a punch, which should hold true regardless of his percentages consider the strength increase is proportional.
Unless we're saying Stain doesn't scale since Izuku punched him in mid air, so it was hundreds of times weaker than normal.
All Might himself actually contradicts this, he's capable of injuring AFO with a single arm punch, despite the fact he didn't put his back/body into it. The United States of Smash was stronger, but it was not hundreds of times stronger. All Might was actually only putting his energy into a single limb as well, and we saw he can injure AFO while spreading the energy across his body.
I refuse to believe Izuku can say he's using everything OFA has to offer against Shigaraki, regardless of what happens to him, but is actually knowingly holding back his strength by over hundreds of times. Or that he becomes hundreds of times weaker when he's in the air, since he has no leverage while floating.
Metalballrun: That logic is absurd to me, since the physics behind that doesn't make someone hundreds of times stronger. A person who punches in mid air, can still produce weaker but comparable force while on the ground. Using that isn't good enough to justify such a massive jump, which means Izuku's current 100% in general has to scale to 6-C if the calc is evaluated and accepted.
I've already stated I'm neutral on the whole 6-C thing, but I cannot agree with Full Cowl being a amp that increases his stats by over hundreds of times. Since that's contradicted in a earlier arc. Todoroki can take a hit from one arm 5% Izuku and Recipro Burst in the sports festival.
While Stain can take a hit from 5% Full Cowl and was hurt by Recipro Burst. Which shows that Recipro Burst is comparable to 5% and 5% Full Cowl at the same time, it's likely a single arm use is weaker but it isn't enough to justify such a jump. What increases his strength according to the above is the physics behind using your whole body in a punch, which should hold true regardless of his percentages consider the strength increase is proportional.
Unless we're saying Stain doesn't scale since Izuku punched him in mid air, so it was hundreds of times weaker than normal.
All Might himself actually contradicts this, he's capable of injuring AFO with a single arm punch, despite the fact he didn't put his back/body into it. The United States of Smash was stronger, but it was not hundreds of times stronger. All Might was actually only putting his energy into a single limb as well, and we saw he can injure AFO while spreading the energy across his body.
I refuse to believe Izuku can say he's using everything OFA has to offer against Shigaraki, regardless of what happens to him, but is actually knowingly holding back his strength by over hundreds of times. Or that he becomes hundreds of times weaker when he's in the air, since he has no leverage while floating.
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I believe that TheRustyOne absolutely makes the most sense here.
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Because there's a difference between I don't agree with this upgrade because I don't believe characters can be this strong and I Disagree because of multiple references that would make the feat Dubious.
Because those verses have explicit Multipliers within their story that people have argued to be consistent, in any case, this does not refute anything I said, the whole 200x multiplier comes from people arguing full cowling is superior to normal 100% percent as a means to justify the gap between mid-tier 7 and low tier 6 (which I don't even agree with) because if they didn't people would argue Outlier and the reason people argue Outlier is because people believe that Tier 6 is too large of a jump which is an appeal to incredulity, a very vapid argument, I never once argued that there's a 50x multiplier so I suggest you stop strawmanning me.
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So uhh couldn't this be fixed if we add "at least" or "likely higher" to the 7-B feats and have the God tiers(Prime All Might, OFA Bakugou, FC Deku, Nine and Prime AFO) at 6-C or whichever tier the storm feat is at?
ÆONS
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Personally I also find the idea of applying/forcing multipliers into a series that has shown zero evidence of care for such a concept to be nonsensical. Verses follow their own rules on how to represent the growth of power of its characters. We don't need to apply something when we can already make do with what the series offers us otherwise we'd needlessly create complications. And yeah I do agree that some people are basing their positions on appealing to incredulity rather than looking through the context and evidence actually relevant to MHA.
Yes ploz. Also GN.
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Not enough to justify a 200X gap like people are suggesting, especially since I've already contested that logic above.
Izuku with a single arm 5% punch can injure Todoroki, who can withstand being kicked by Recipro Burst, which can injure Stain, who took two punches from 5% Full Cowl. Despite the fact Full Cowl may have increase the output due to how muscles work, the physics behind it do not allow for a 200X increase.
Izuku clearly states, with no room for interpretation. That he was hitting Shigaraki with everything OFA has to offer, and he did not care what would happen to him. Yet people insist that the statement is wrong for no actual reason. I personally believe Izuku himself, instead of saying physics doesn't allow that.
This is fiction, it doesn't have to follow reality, it follows its own rules. If Izuku states he can unleash everything OFA has to offer while he's floating in mid air, then I'll believe him over "physics". It's likely that Full Cowl is indeed stronger, but it not that big of a gap that we can say Full Cowl multiplies his power by hundreds of times.
However guess what, in real life you can't put 100% of your power into a single limb like Izuku does. This isn't Izuku's muscle strength, it's a fictional power called a Quirk and he can fill his limb/body with that strength. He doesn't produce that energy with his muscles, this energy is stored inside of OFA and can be put into his body/limbs when he activates OFA.
100% energy inside of a single limb vs 100% energy spread around his body, no extra energy is being created here. The only difference should come from Izuku's base strength, which is vastly inferior to 100% that it doesn't even matter. Like I said, physics can take some hold here still, but not enough to say his strength increases by 200X.
Bruh
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I never said that the difference should be 200X per se but there should be at least some improvement. Even if we disregard the whole muscle thing, punching someone while traveling on a speeding motorcycle is gonna hurt a lot more than just punching them normally just like how punching someone while traveling at massively hypersonic speed is gonna hurt more than a high hypersonic one, that just basic logic. Realistically how much of an improvement should this bring ? I won't know since small dumb monkey brain can't do math
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I keep seeing the "well it doesn't justify a 200x jump" as if the amount it jumps by actually matters. As I've said before, we have a clear-cut comparison in Heroes Rising between 100% and Full Cowl 100%, and it's a comparison that irrefutably proves that Full Cowl 100% is a significant boost compared to regular 100%.
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Already disproven that Full Cowl doesn't increase his strength by a large amount. Both with a direct statement from the user of OFA, and from actual showings with 5% and 5% Full Cowl. Since guess what, it's not possible for the jump to be exclusive to 100% Full Cowl, as OFA's power is proportional to itself.
5% will always be a certain amount weaker compared to 100%, if 100% goes up in strength so to does 5%. If using 100% Full Cowl increases Izuku's stats by 200X, than the same is true with 5% and 5% Full Cowl. But this is wrong, as I've shown a single arm 5% punch and 5% Full Cowl punch are comparable to each other.
This doesn't magically change just because he's using 100%. While Full Cowl can indeed be stronger, it's not enough to directly rate it over 200X stronger than normal. I do not care about the 6-C results, I'm neutral on it being an outlier or not. What I'm saying is that if we do accept it, then 6-C without a doubt scales to a normal 100% smash.
AOE (Which means nothing) and "physics" arguments will never be accepted as actual evidence, since you're ignoring what is directly stated in the verse. Izuku states he's using everything OFA has to offer against Shigaraki, no one has disproven this and instead just state how they can't accept that as true.
Izuku's in universe statement overrides any theories or assumptions you can make, as I've already proven he knows how strong 100% Full Cowl is. And no one has actually explained why Izuku would lie to himself, and hold back his strength by hundreds of times. Instead they offer theories or baseless assumptions.
Unless someone can actually provide real evidence, with a statement or feat of 100% Full Cowl one shotting something that could survive a 100% hit.
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Hey, so because this thread is just circular arguments about FC 100%, and since Earthy apparently has to re-calc some stuff, I made this thread for speed revision.
Something to do while we wait.
Something to do while we wait.
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I’ve already given a feat like this, where 100% Deku couldn’t even get close to stopping an attack from Full Power Nine while Full Cowl 100% easily destroyed six of that same Nine’s barriers at once.
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