My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

[Metalballrun]

So if every top tier is gonna be upgraded to Low 7-B, then that means All Might's Hideout key is gonna be nuked, and adjustments for profiles that scale to him would be done.
Shiggy would be Low 7-B due to clashing with Deku, right? Did we ever confirm that he did use Air Cannon to clash with a 100% Smash?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

So if every top tier is gonna be upgraded to Low 7-B, then that means All Might's Hideout key is gonna be nuked, and adjustments for profiles that scale to him would be done.
Shiggy would be Low 7-B due to clashing with Deku, right? Did we ever confirm that he did use Air Cannon to clash with a 100% Smash?

Hideout key wouldn’t need to get Nuked it would just become At most Small City level+

 

[TheRustyOne]

Once we're finished with the villain revision, we should be able to touch the top tiers. Once the student CRT is done, which seems like we're almost there, I'll make the villain thread which also shouldn't take long. Since their stats just need to be updated with any new scaling or downgraded due to lack of scaling.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

This might be a controversial take, but I believe Hospital High-Ends should scale to Hood.

Now hear me out.

As has been constantly alluded to, the Hospital High Ends had the issue of not being fully stabilized, a process that took Hood ten hours to do after he was released. While the doctor speculates their strength, it always appears he is more concerned with their effectiveness and stability rather than how physically strong they are. This is compounded with the fact that he states that Woman and the other four Hospital High Ends actually had a form of trial run, as well as that he stated he only needed a half a day more to complete them, when the process for creating High Ends is three months just for implanting quirks. So the Hospital High Ends were VERY close to Hoods level already.

Also, as much as we have debated about it, I think the idea that High Ends are superior to USJ Nomu is a valid one. Not only is it stated that they are superior to all Nomu in actual stats, the example used for them being superior IS the USJ Nomu. Also, the one giving that dialogue is Ujiko himself, not Crust, as shown with how he continues the dialogue, so even he believes High Ends to be abvoe USJ Nomu. So bare minimum, Hood and the Hospital High Ends are superior to USJ Nomu. It doesn't change scaling or anything, but should function as support for full High Ends warranting Low 7-B.

Also, as for characters that scale to it, there would literally only be Mirko and Crust, as they're the only two other than Endeavor shown fighting Hospital High Ends on even terms. Some random Heroes are shown attacking them as well, but in those cases, Aizawa was there and erasing their quirks, other than Woman, who was killed by Endeavor. Ryukyu, despite being present, only restrained an arm from Woman, so her being able to harm Woman to the same degree as Mirko is unknown.

Near High Ends, however, are a different matter, as they only have a statement from Mirio for being possibly comparable to Hood. That's a far more debatable topic, as they were taken down steadily by dozens to hundreds of Heroes working together.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

This might be a controversial take, but I believe Hospital High-Ends should scale to Hood.

Now hear me out.

As has been constantly alluded to, the Hospital High Ends had the issue of not being fully stabilized, a process that took Hood ten hours to do after he was released. While the doctor speculates their strength, it always appears he is more concerned with their effectiveness and stability rather than how physically strong they are. This is compounded with the fact that he states that Woman and the other four Hospital High Ends actually had a form of trial run, as well as that he stated he only needed a half a day more to complete them, when the process for creating High Ends is three months just for implanting quirks. So the Hospital High Ends were VERY close to Hoods level already.

Also, as much as we have debated about it, I think the idea that High Ends are superior to USJ Nomu is a valid one. Not only is it stated that they are superior to all Nomu in actual stats, the example used for them being superior IS the USJ Nomu. Also, the one giving that dialogue is Ujiko himself, not Crust, as shown with how he continues the dialogue, so even he believes High Ends to be abvoe USJ Nomu. So bare minimum, Hood and the Hospital High Ends are superior to USJ Nomu. It doesn't change scaling or anything, but should function as support for full High Ends warranting Low 7-B.

Also, as for characters that scale to it, there would literally only be Mirko and Crust, as they're the only two other than Endeavor shown fighting Hospital High Ends on even terms. Some random Heroes are shown attacking them as well, but in those cases, Aizawa was there and erasing their quirks, other than Woman, who was killed by Endeavor. Ryukyu, despite being present, only restrained an arm from Woman, so her being able to harm Woman to the same degree as Mirko is unknown.

Near High Ends, however, are a different matter, as they only have a statement from Mirio for being possibly comparable to Hood. That's a far more debatable topic, as they were taken down steadily by dozens to hundreds of Heroes working together.

I don’t think they should directly scale to hood at least not in the department of physicals
Hood had Muscular’s Muscle Augmentation quírk basically which was focused around amping physicals on top of Nomu Stats while the other hospital high ends just had their Nomu Stats when it came to physicals

Being Low 7-B (Possibly Baseline) is fine for them since endeavor’s punch couldn’t mush a high ends bones completely and other justifications you mentioned.

 

[TheRustyOne]

No they don't, don't spread misinformation.

Such a thing hasn't been confirmed in universe, nor has there been any implication that Muscular Quirk was copied.

Downscaling isn't allowed, without a very good reason.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I don’t think they should directly scale to hood at least not in the department of physicals
Hood had Muscular’s Muscle Augmentation quírk basically which was focused around amping physicals on top of Nomu Stats while the other hospital high ends just had their Nomu Stats when it came to physicals

Being Low 7-B (Possibly Baseline) is fine for them since endeavor’s punch couldn’t mush a high ends bones completely and other justifications you mentioned.

I wouldn't bank on him having Muscular's quirk. It being copied hasn't been confirmed, and we don't know if Hood could use it at the same level he did if it was.

If it is Muscular's quirk, that would be cool tho.

 

[TheRustyOne]

The Near High-Ends were stated to be as strong as Hood, there is no reason to doubt this information. Since it's not a hard statement to make, everyone knows how strong Hood was since he could injure Endeavor. So the Near High-Ends and the Hospital High-Ends should be physically comparable to Hood.

Literally dozens if not hundreds of Quirks being used on them, many Quirks don't even rely on AP to defeat an opponent. Some ignore durability as well, I don't see how that's a counter point or controversial. It's a clear statement made by Mirio, who doesn't need to be a super genius to gauge their strength.

There needs to be good reason to reject this statement, and I have no recollection of anything that shows the Near High-Ends being overpowered or injured by something that was vastly weaker than Hood.

Mirko and Crust are the main people that would scale, and they have no other scaling to go off of. Mirko herself thought she could fight Hood, that's why she rushed over to the fight. While confidence by itself isn't a reason to scale, this does support the Hospital High-Ends being comparable Hood.

 

[Damage3245]

It's not necessarily Muscular's specific Quirk, but it is the same Quirk in general. It has the same name and visually it similar to Muscular's.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

All of the High-Ends should be Low 7-B, not like many people scale to them at all

Also AFO Shiggy should not be weaker than Muscular at all is all I'm gonna say if Muscular can get beat in the way he did these last two chapters

 

[TheRustyOne]

It's just like Gigantification, tons of people have this Quirk but they aren't comparable to Mount Lady.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The Near High-Ends were stated to be as strong as Hood, there is no reason to doubt this information. Since it's not a hard statement to make, everyone knows how strong Hood was since he could injure Endeavor. So the Near High-Ends and the Hospital High-Ends should be physically comparable to Hood.

Literally dozens if not hundreds of Quirks being used on them, many Quirks don't even rely on AP to defeat an opponent. Some ignore durability as well, I don't see how that's a counter point or controversial. It's a clear statement made by Mirio, who doesn't need to be a super genius to gauge their strength.

There needs to be good reason to reject this statement, and I have no recollection of anything that shows the Near High-Ends being overpowered or injured by something that was vastly weaker than Hood.

Mirko and Crust are the main people that would scale, and they have no other scaling to go off of. Mirko herself thought she could fight Hood, that's why she rushed over to the fight. While confidence by itself isn't a reason to scale, this does support the Hospital High-Ends being comparable Hood.

The only reason I was wary of Mirio's statement is because that opens up the possibility of heroes scaling to Near High Ends later on since seven of them are still around. I'm all for it, but it's quite a jump if say Bakugo fights one of them by himself or something.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I wouldn't bank on him having Muscular's quirk. It being copied hasn't been confirmed, and we don't know if Hood could use it at the same level he did if it was.

If it is Muscular's quirk, that would be cool tho.

Yeah I know that
But they’re a similar style of physical amp
Since ofc if it was muscular’s beat for beat and he could use it on the same level as muscular I’d actually find it strange that he’d only be scaled to Low 7-B due to the massive jump muscular gets with it.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

How do we handle Best Jeanist? Do we just scale him to surviving AFO's unamped Air Cannon?

He appears to be behind others in dura since a High End messed up his leg pretty easily, but surviving Air Cannon isn't a small feat when paired with him restraining Machia, and its not like Mirko and Crust could just tank hits from High Ends either.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Jeanist dura should at least scale to or above Gang Orca, as even though he was pushed out the way, he was still knocked out by the attack. While Jeanist took more of the attack and was conscious as well, though he did take major damage.

Jeanist competed with Machia in a power struggle but that's only with the Carbon Fibers, his normal fibers would probably be Unknown. Unless someone has any reason for them to be anything different.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Jeanist dura should at least scale to or above Gang Orca, as even though he was pushed out the way, he was still knocked out by the attack. While Jeanist took more the attack and was conscious as well, though he did take major damage.

Jeanist competed with Machia in a power struggle but that's only with the Carbon Fibers, his normal fibers would probably be Unknown. Unless someone has any reason for them to be anything different.

He can just scale to Mount Lady then can't he? She was in her big form and was KO'd despite being moved too.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Mount Lady's surface area is far greater than his own, which means she would've been hit by more power than he did. It's possible he survived because he was smaller than her, not because he's more durable.

Though I'm told that's a little too complicated, and there's no proof of that either. So I guess it'd be fine to keep his dura as is, maybe?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Mount Lady's surface area is far greater than his own, which means she would've been hit by more power than he did. It's possible he survived because he was smaller than her, not because he's more durable.

Though I'm told that's a little too complicated, and there's no proof of that either. So I guess it'd be fine to keep his dura as is, maybe?

So it’s not fine to just say the Air canon is worth 3 megatons instead of the original value of 6.3 Kilotons in Jeanists durability calc

 

[TheRustyOne]

That's calc stacking, unless we calculated that specific attack at Low 7-B we cannot do that.

Edit: Wait why 3 MT anyway?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

That's calc stacking, unless we calculated that specific attack at Low 7-B we cannot do that.

Edit: Wait why 3 MT anyway?

Fair enough then

I just said 3 megatons because of Wolframs calc and I forgot the decimals

 

[TheRustyOne]

I thought it was 5 MT. I mixed up Wolfram's calc with OFA Bakugo's in my head, that's actually my bad.

 

[Earthyboy]

If anyone is curious, here's the statement which puts the High-Ends above USJ Nomu.

 

[Damage3245]

... What to make of the statement that the Upper Tier Nomu are as "strong as ten average people combined"?

 

[TheRustyOne]

It states that those in the Upper Tier are "At least as strong as ten average people combined." Obviously not all of the Upper Tier Nomu are comparable to each other, the one Endeavor fought in Hosu was stated to be weaker than the USJ Nomu.

At least implies that the weakest are as strong as ten average people combined, it's not where their strength caps.

 

[LordTracer]

Obviously not all of the Upper Tier Nomu are comparable to each other, the one Endeavor fought in Hosu was stated to be weaker than the USJ Nomu.

Isn’t Hood a High-End, not an Upper-Tier?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Yes, Hood is a High-End. What are you getting at?

High-Ends are stated to posses stats above the Upper Tier Nomu, which includes the USJ Nomu. It's even showing the USJ Nomu in the picture. "Standing above all of them are the High-End Nomu"

 

[LordTracer]

Yes, Hood is a High-End. What are you getting at?

High-Ends are stated to posses stats above the Upper Tier Nomu, which includes the USJ Nomu. It's even showing the USJ Nomu in the picture.

You said Hood was stated to be weaker than the USJ in your last post, so I got a bit confused.

 

[TheRustyOne]

No I didn't, I said the Hosu Nomu was weaker.

That's the Nomu Endeavor fought in the Stain Arc. Are you confusing the city names? Kyushu was were Hood attacked, not Hosu.

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah, that’s my bad, I was confusing the city names.

 

[Damage3245]

Alright, fair.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

So is Nejire gonna be Low 7B as well? She pinned a NHE

 

[Gitagon]

Upper tier Nomu - Black Nomu

High-ends are also upper tier black Nomu and the "High-end" in their name represents their intelligence. In this case intelligence makes them stronger than other black Nomu.

Not everything titled "strength" or "more powerful" translates directly to physical strength. It might mean anything from versitility, battle awareness and planning, combat intelligence, etc.

People need to stop being obsessed with physical strength alone and scale these characters correctly. Hood had 3 or 4 Strength augmentation quirks: Muscle Augmentation, Power (sounds like Pankration's quirk), Long-arm (this could Overwhelm Rappa and Mirko back in the day), + we don't even know what his original quirk was.

You just can't scale his physical strength to Helmet head who didn't have a single close range combat quirk. He had lasers and and a spatial quirk, Warp. In universe, he will be called just as strong as Hood since he could literally take Hood's head off. It doesn't mean that he could fight Hood in CQC.

His physical strength is just at the "at least 10 men combined level" while Hood's would be "at least 10 men combined" + 3 or 4 strength enhancing quirks level.

I'm not really against any if this but I hope people don't make every single argument about physical strength especially since MHA's power system isn't uniform. Not everyone has the same power and a character can be stronger than another while being vastly weaker physically based on what their quirk is.

 

[Metalballrun]

Just saying that "strong as ten average people combined" is an unquantifiable statement. We don't know how strong the average person in MHA is.
Even if we assume that the average person is as strong as Base Deku, being 10x stronger won't even move them from 9-B tier.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Upper tier Nomu - Black Nomu

High-ends are also upper tier black Nomu and the "High-end" in their name represents their intelligence. In this case intelligence makes them stronger than other black Nomu.

Not everything titled "strength" or "more powerful" translates directly to physical strength. It might mean anything from versitility, battle awareness and planning, combat intelligence, etc.

People need to stop being obsessed with physical strength alone and scale these characters correctly. Hood had 3 or 4 Strength augmentation quirks: Muscle Augmentation, Power (sounds like Pankration's quirk), Long-arm (this could Overwhelm Rappa and Mirko back in the day), + we don't even know what his original quirk was.

You just can't scale his physical strength to Helmet head who didn't have a single close range combat quirk. He had lasers and and a spatial quirk, Warp. In universe, he will be called just as strong as Hood since he could literally take Hood's head off. It doesn't mean that he could fight Hood in CQC.

His physical strength is just at the "at least 10 men combined level" while Hood's would be "at least 10 men combined" + 3 or 4 strength enhancing quirks level.

I'm not really against any if this but I hope people don't make every single argument about physical strength especially since MHA's power system isn't uniform. Not everyone has the same power and a character can be stronger than another while being vastly weaker physically based on what their quirk is.

My issue with this take is that Ujiko specifically states their stats are higher than Upper-Tiers. Also, High-Ends are specifically a different tier above Upper-Ends, they are not the same, they are built differently with higher statistics.

“Standing above all of them are the High-End Nomu, possessing stats beyond those of the Upper-Tier Nomu”

Their high intelligence is referred to AFTER he notes the difference in actual statistics between the two tiers of Nomu. So no, he’s not calling High-End’s better solely due to them being smarter, they are quite literally built to be higher in strength and speed than any Upper-Tier Nomu. You’re telling me Ujiko would intentionally have High-Ends with more quirks and intelligence, but completely dump their strength? Especially when he’s gotten better at making them as shown with Shigaraki being so high in strength with full mental capacities?

Also, who are you to assume Helmet was physically weaker than Hood just because of his quirks??? Yes, Hood had quirks that boosted him further, but the base level of strength for High-Ends should not be any different from each other, and any of them would be scaled directly above the USJ Nomu, as stated by Ujiko himself, in stats. Saying that Helmet is “only as strong as ten men” because he had different quirks, which isn’t even a correct assumption because High-Ends are physically superior to Upper-Ends so he would be stronger than “ten men” anyway, is an unfounded claim.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

So is Nejire gonna be Low 7B as well? She pinned a NHE

Honestly idk but likely

 

[Animegod12345]

Upper tier Nomu - Black Nomu

High-ends are also upper tier black Nomu and the "High-end" in their name represents their intelligence. In this case intelligence makes them stronger than other black Nomu.

Not everything titled "strength" or "more powerful" translates directly to physical strength. It might mean anything from versitility, battle awareness and planning, combat intelligence, etc.

People need to stop being obsessed with physical strength alone and scale these characters correctly. Hood had 3 or 4 Strength augmentation quirks: Muscle Augmentation, Power (sounds like Pankration's quirk), Long-arm (this could Overwhelm Rappa and Mirko back in the day), + we don't even know what his original quirk was.

You just can't scale his physical strength to Helmet head who didn't have a single close range combat quirk. He had lasers and and a spatial quirk, Warp. In universe, he will be called just as strong as Hood since he could literally take Hood's head off. It doesn't mean that he could fight Hood in CQC.

His physical strength is just at the "at least 10 men combined level" while Hood's would be "at least 10 men combined" + 3 or 4 strength enhancing quirks level.

I'm not really against any if this but I hope people don't make every single argument about physical strength especially since MHA's power system isn't uniform. Not everyone has the same power and a character can be stronger than another while being vastly weaker physically based on what their quirk is.

Where does qurikless shigaraki strength range?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Where does qurikless shigaraki strength range?

He might scale above Hood since Endeavor compares him to AM but didn’t do the same for Hood (which might mean Hood is weaker than Muscular)

 

[Gitagon]

This is why scaling should be based on pure feats, not statements.

 

[Gitagon]

Where does qurikless shigaraki strength range?

He is compared to All Might twice.

Endeavor thinks he is at All Might's level

Ujiko also compares him to All Might but says he's not quite there yet.

Funny thing is that, in the panel he's called a perfected Nomu, it is USJ Nomu who is shown, the Anti-All Might so he still has hype despite the High-ends.

Quirkless Shiggy should be above USJ Nomu and Hood in terms of pure strength.

He is of course <<< 100% Deku since 1 punch fs up his jaw.

His defence is also considerably weaker than Muscular who can take multiple 100% smashes.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I think you might have a point since Hood being weaker than Shigaraki doesn’t make a ton of sense since he did more damage to Endeavor with one attack than Shiggy (made Endeavor cough up blood).