Mushoku Tensei Discussion Thread

[Narutouchiha95]

The fact that it is said that a Saint-tier cannot inflict damage on him. Like I said he wears the armor that should give him Saint-tier so he can't be King-tier like you say. The inconsistency would come from the fact that Rudeus himself said that he has the physical abilities of the Saint-Tier with Mk 2. If you upgrade Zanoba to King-tier then it should be the same for Rudeus.

Couldn't it mean that Zanoba himself has that durability by being a blessed child?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Couldn't it mean that Zanoba himself has that durability by being a blessed child?

As a blessed child I can give him Advanced-tier durability. Maybe with the aura (if he can use) he can reach the Saint-tier baseline but the fact is that the armor is more resistant.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

As a blessed child I can give him Advanced-tier durability. Maybe with the aura (if he can use) he can reach the Saint-tier baseline but the fact is that the armor is more resistant.

Okay. Anyway, I don't remember those parts of the novel well, so we'll leave it here for now and I'll try to get back to it once I read it again.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Okay. Anyway, I don't remember those parts of the novel well, so we'll leave it here for now and I'll try to get back to it once I read it again.

Yes. Once you have reached this part of the LN we will see what to do.

 

[Zabazab]

Couldn't it mean that Zanoba himself has that durability by being a blessed child?

Zanoba is insanely strong, if nobody used Battle Aura then Zanoba would be the physically strongest person in the world, stronger than Orsted. The Death God's armour-crushing strike only bruised him too.


As for Demonic Dragon God Laplace & Orsted;

So much the better. Laplace was terrifically powerful. I’ve lived a long time, but I have never encountered a greater threat than he.

Yet the Man-God told me such a greater threat does exist, in the form of the current Dragon God— Dragon God Orsted. That would be the man to whom the great Dragon God Urupen passed his skills. They say he’s what, the hundredth Dragon God? I scarcely believed the line had continued for so long, but the great Urupen always did play fast and loose with numbers. The actual number of generations was likely irrelevant.

In any case, this Dragon God Orsted was supposed to be terrifically powerful, so much so that he surpassed the Demon God and the Technique God— so much so that he could even defeat Demonic Dragon God Laplace. I’d be hard-pressed to say I believed such a story. I myself fought Laplace once, and his gruesomeness was beyond my power to express it. A power greater than that? Inconceivable! Fwahahaha!

Yet, that cowardly god of men who looked down on all of us on this earth as scum, that model of arrogance whom even Laplace dared not challenge— he feared only this Dragon God. He took such pains to stop, nay, to kill that man with the fearful countenance, and yet he had never once succeeded. Would you believe it? He even came and bowed his head to me! Just that should be enough to make one believe it.

Now, was there anyone out there who could defeat such a mighty being? The answer to that was no. There wasn’t even anyone who could defeat Demonic Dragon God Laplace. I professed no great knowledge of the subject, but my father said that none have rivaled the Dragon God’s power for more than ten thousand years. Was it any wonder? Physically he was the strongest— wearing his invincible armor and wielding his unmatched martial skills, how could anyone ever best him?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Zanoba is insanely strong, if nobody used Battle Aura then Zanoba would be the physically strongest person in the world, stronger than Orsted.

As for Demonic Dragon God Laplace & Orsted;

Hmm about Orsted I'm not sure. First with DDG Laplace who was the strongest physically, then Orsted who surpasses him physically and Orsted trains his body for 20 years in each loop. Orsted's nature as a Demi-God and Demi-Dragon should give him far greater physical power than Zanoba without Aura.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Here are some feats and info from the second part of volume 9 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 7:

.- Rudeus cannot use battle aura
.- Laplace did not use battle aura
.- Laplace defeated Badigadi with a spell in a similar way to what Rudeus did
.- Rudeus cannot use mana in the same way as Laplace or he would die
.- Physically, Laplace was superior to Rudeus
.- Linia smarter than Ghislaine
.- Rudeus learns saint level earth magic, sandstorm
.- Intermediate Rudeus spells comparable to king level
.- The spell that Rudeus cast on Badigadi is emperor level
.- Silphy can make around 20 Nanahoshi scrolls before she is exhausted.
.- Each magic scroll consumes as much as an advanced spell

Chapter 9:

.- Sylphiette has no problem defeating class B monsters
.- Two advanced magicians and Sylphiette with Aqua Hartia surpass Rudeus in manipulating the clouds

Extra Chapter:

.- Nina Farion has been a saint sword since she was 16 years old
.- Gino has been a saint sword since he was 12 years old
.- Nina superior to Gino by now
.- Gal Farion is the current sword god and much inferior to Orsted
.- Eris superior to Nina when she met her.
.- No one in the room saw Gal Farion blitz Eris. In the room was Ghislaine and two emperors.
.- Gal Farion gives her the saint level
.- Currently Nina and Eris Greyrat are similar in skill with the sword
.- Badigadi defeats thirty candidates for Linia and Pursena in addition to Nina
.- Nina unable to penetrate Badigadi's skin with the light sword. She gave him a superficial cut that regenerated.

 

[Zabazab]

Nina unable to penetrate Badigadi's skin with the light sword. She gave him a superficial cut that regenerated.

This would make sense if a lower ranked opponent can only deal superficial damage through higher-ranked Battle Aura. Orsted (a god-class opponent) received a superficial cut from Rudeus' Emperor-class magic.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

This would make sense if a lower ranked opponent can only deal superficial damage through higher-ranked Battle Aura. Orsted (a god-class opponent) received a superficial cut from Rudeus' Emperor-class magic.

Yes, I also think that in this volume and in the novel in general it begins to become clearer that the comparison between Laplace and Rudeus is only in mana.

Also its curious that:

2 Advanced mages + Silphiette x5 (Aqua Hartia) > Rudeus

 

[Digital_Franz]

This would make sense if a lower ranked opponent can only deal superficial damage through higher-ranked Battle Aura. Orsted (a god-class opponent) received a superficial cut from Rudeus' Emperor-class magic.

Yeah. It clearly shows the difference in level even with Sword Of Light. Eris being able to hurt Orsted with hers should have significant AP with using Sword Of Light?

 

[Zabazab]

2 Advanced mages + Silphiette x5 (Aqua Hartia) > Rudeus

This would imply Sylphiette is 1/7th as strong as Rudeus, although it's probably more than that since Sylphie is likely already stronger than those two Advanced mages.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

This would imply Sylphiette is 1/7th as strong as Rudeus, although it's probably more than that since Sylphie is likely already stronger than those two Advanced mages.

Yes, and at the same time it is made clear that his magical capacity is much lower with the scrolls.
So I can say at this point that 2xmana =/= 2xAP. But yes more mana = more AP.

 

[Digital_Franz]

.- Rudeus cannot use mana in the same way as Laplace or he would die
.- Physically, Laplace was superior to Rudeus

That's what I was saying. Laplace's durability is not low like Rudeus' because he cannot use Aura. Note that even Sylphy is more Durable than Rudeus.

.- Rudeus learns saint level earth magic, sandstorm
.- Intermediate Rudeus spells comparable to king level

So if he uses an Emperor-tier spell it should be God-tier.

.- Two advanced magicians and Sylphiette with Aqua Hartia surpass Rudeus in manipulating the clouds

What? Rudeus has a special way of manipulating clouds. Does that take that into account?

.- Gal Farion is the current sword god and much inferior to Orsted

The current lower great powers are so weak compared to their predecessors.

.- No one in the room saw Gal Farion blitz Eris. In the room was Ghislaine and two emperors.

Perception blitz? Since Auber's speed is Relativistic, we should think about working on the speed of those who are superior and inferior to him.

 

[Digital_Franz]

This would imply Sylphiette is 1/7th as strong as Rudeus, although it's probably more than that since Sylphie is likely already stronger than those two Advanced mages.

Right. Especially considering that Rudy's level has increased so she should have quite a lot of power.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Yes, and at the same time it is made clear that his magical capacity is much lower with the scrolls.
So I can say at this point that 2xmana =/= 2xAP. But yes more mana = more AP.

Yes. As you and @Zabazab already said, there is also the magic output. 2x mana=/=2x magic output.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

That's what I was saying. Laplace's durability is not low like Rudeus' because he cannot use Aura. Note that even Sylphy is more Durable than Rudeus.

Sylphy? I don´t remember that.

The simple fact of saying that he cannot use as much power as Laplace automatically makes his AP lower in addition to his durability as you point out.

So if he uses an Emperor-tier spell it should be God-tier.

I'm not sure we can assume that, we don't know the level jump between each scale exactly

What? Rudeus has a special way of manipulating clouds. Does that take that into account?

He was trying to manipulate the weather directly and the special way it has is that it maintains itself without having to continually supply mana.

There's nothing to indicate that he's not putting effort into this scene. If he could have stopped the storm, he would have done it.

The current lower great powers are so weak compared to their predecessors.

Yeah i don´t know that. Kalman I in the Q&A said is weaker.

Perception blitz? Since Auber's speed is Relativistic, we should think about working on the speed of those who are superior and inferior to him.

What is your understanding of this? I'm not sure what you want to do.

 

[Zabazab]

I just don't really think Rudeus is able to output God-class magical power.

Incidentally, Orsted had taught me some spells above King-tier for multiple different elemental schools. I hadn’t accomplished much with that knowledge, though. Most offensive spells above King-tier apparently consisted of arranging a combination of spells from Saint-tier or below.

Let’s use the Emperor-tier water spell Absolute Zero as an example. All you had to do was increase the speed and potency of Frost, which itself was a combination of Water Cascade and Icicle Field. Absolute Zero let you skip drenching the opponent with Water Splash, instead allowing you to freeze a wide area in an instant.

I could already use Absolute Zero. It was no big deal; I’d already acquired spells up to Emperor-tier. That was why when Badigadi said I could call myself an Imperial Earth mage when he saw my Stone Cannon. Ordinarily, there was no way to increase the potency of Stone Cannon, but in theory, it could be strengthened using the same process of combining spells like with Absolute Zero.

Since I had already learned up to Saint-tier magical spells in each of the four offensive schools, one could say I had already mastered all there was to master. As for God-tier spells, I probably wouldn’t be able to use them anyway. Apparently you needed an enormous amount of mana and extremely fine control over said mana, in addition to using an insanely long incantation and a magic circle to help control the spell. As Orsted told it, the potency of these spells was such that they could change the landscape. Some of the strange geographical features in this world were actually the results of such magic.

Volume 18

 

[Betatester0]

Can we equate the physical characteristics of the serious Orsted with Hitogami? if so, in theory this could raise defense and attack for many characters

 

[Digital_Franz]

Can we equate the physical characteristics of the serious Orsted with Hitogami? if so, in theory this could raise defense and attack for many characters

For FP Orsted. Serious Restricted Orsted is the actual Orsted.

 

[Betatester0]

For FP Orsted. Serious Restricted Orsted is the actual Orsted.

Then we can't just equate Orsted's physical attack when he is trying to kill someone and Hitogami's bare hand attack? just if so, then in theory this could raise the king levels to the island level

 

[Digital_Franz]

The simple fact of saying that he cannot use as much power as Laplace automatically makes his AP lower in addition to his durability as you point out.

Yeah. Now it depends on Laplace's version.

I'm not sure we can assume that, we don't know the level jump between each scale exactly

Just an assumption.

Yeah i don´t know that. Kalman I in the Q&A said is weaker.

The only exception. And Kalman III is the only exception too.

What is your understanding of this? I'm not sure what you want to do.

Naturally they cannot perceive the Speed of Light at a certain distance. Just the fact that we should think about working on speed.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I just don't really think Rudeus is able to output God-class magical power.

Volume 18

The problem is that it would contradict a lot of things. He can inflict damage on Orsted even if it was only 10% which would require at least having a God-tier magic output otherwise the fact that Orsted takes attacks from Laplace and even the First Dragon God who is at death's door tanked the dragon generals' attacks would not be very consistent.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Then we can't just equate Orsted's physical attack when he is trying to kill someone and Hitogami's bare hand attack? just if so, then in theory this could raise the king levels to the island level

I'm not sure I understand. The fact is that Saint-tier spells are already Island level. King-tier spells could be Large Island level or Small Country level.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Yeah. Now it depends on Laplace's version.

I believe is Demon God because at this point of the story is the reference and his the "popular one" in the laplace war.

Naturally they cannot perceive the Speed of Light at a certain distance. Just the fact that we should think about working on speed.

So anybody is LS in reactions in this room?

 

[Zabazab]

Nobody seeing Gal move would be a matter of distances: The Emperors were closest, and that would make seeing the movement difficult. The Saints were further away but are much slower, so they couldn't see either.

The actual best combat speed feat in the verse will probably be Orsted catching Eris' flawless Sword of Light between his palms with a clap.


Also, we have confirmation that every single Great Power can at least harm Orsted, which would include Randolph who is inferior to the Sword, North, and Water Gods.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Nobody seeing Gal move would be a matter of distances: The Emperors were closest, and that would make seeing the movement difficult. The Saints were further away but are much slower, so they couldn't see either.

The actual best combat speed feat in the verse will probably be Orsted catching Eris' flawless Sword of Light between his palms with a clap.


Also, we have confirmation that every single Great Power can at least harm Orsted, which would include Randolph who is inferior to the Sword, North, and Water Gods.

My point at the end of all this is that Gal Farion should be able to blitz emperors. It doesn't really matter if the emperors were closer to Gal or not, the distance Gal travels (Between him and Eris) is the same.

 

[Zabazab]

Also I wanted to report that I don't think the Auber Sword of Light deflection is completely viable as a speed feat. He was already brandishing the blade in front of him before Eris attacked. It's more of a strength feat.

Auber brandishes the flat of his blade against Eris:

With that, Auber— with one sword in his right hand—reached for the shorter sword at his waist with his left. However, he wielded his weapon in reverse, brandishing the flat side of the blade at her.

Eris uses the Sword of Light:

At striking distance, Eris decided she would remove the obstacle in her path by force. Shkt! Her blade whizzed through the air. She was using Sword of Light, an ability honed through all of her practice.

 

[Betatester0]

I'm not sure I understand. The fact is that Saint-tier spells are already Island level. King-tier spells could be Large Island level or Small Country level.

I'm talking about the physical characteristics of characters from king level and above. Hitogami was able to pierce the chest of the dragon god with his bare hand, who had previously received no damage from the attack, which left only dust from the highest mountain in the dragon world (in which even the mountain range is higher than any mountains in the human world). if Orsted's attack had such power (and Orsted has already shown the ability to practically not receive damage from attacks above the level of the island and break kilometer-long cobblestones with his bare hand) when he tried to kill Rudeus in MK1, then the protection of the armor and, accordingly, a swordsman of the appropriate level will also be at the level of large mountain or islands

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Well, from the beginning I don't take very seriously the fact that only characters reach LS through technique. So I leave all that discussion to you.

I just want to make the case that Gal Farion can blitz emperors.

If the emperors are superhumans, mach 1 or LS, I won't get involved there.

 

[Zabazab]

I'm talking about the physical characteristics of characters from king level and above.

Badigadi says his Battle Aura will protect him from any magic or sword techniques below King-class, so warriors that use Battle Aura would already reach that level.

 

[Betatester0]

Badigadi says his Battle Aura will protect him from any magic or sword techniques below King-class, so warriors that use Battle Aura would already reach that level.

yes, but this is Badi, I think it’s quite obvious that even though in terms of strength he is at the level of Ghyslaine, his touki should be no lower than emperor level, if not higher (the same Ghyslaine clearly could not withstand Nina’s sword of light without damage), so I thought that we couldn’t just give a swordsman starting from King level the same durability

 

[Zabazab]

Snip

Badigadi is King-class, I believe.

 

[Betatester0]

Badigadi is King-class, I believe.

he is at the level of Ghyslaine, but only because he does not have any fighting skills, unlike others

 

[Betatester0]

By the way, can we use illustrations from the manga? if so then we can also see the distance between Eris and Gal as well as the approximate distance between them and other swordsmen (at least between them and Ghyslaine). At least Ghislain is at a fairly large distance, and the others probably weren’t too close

 

[Narutouchiha95]

By the way, can we use illustrations from the manga? if so then we can also see the distance between Eris and Gal as well as the approximate distance between them and other swordsmen (at least between them and Ghyslaine). At least Ghislain is at a fairly large distance, and the others probably weren’t too close

Yes. The manga/anime is supporting to get feats

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Well, I'm going to put the exploits of this volume and the previous in the manga and anime


Anime:

.- Rudeus vs Red Wyrm



.- Rudeus vs Linia y Pursena



.- Rudeus vs Badigadi in anime



Manga:

.- Rudeus vs Red Wyrm (Chapter 52)

.- The battle between Zanoba and Lilia&Pursena (Chapter 60)

.- The battle between Fitts and Pursena&Linia (Chapter 60)

.- Nina vs Badigadi (Chapter 67)

.- Chapter about aura in the manga (Chapter 68.5): https://w16.themushokutensei.com/manga/mushoku-tensei-chapter-68-5/



.- Rudeus can use 50 magic circles in a day without problem (Chapter 70)

.- The weather change in the forest for the two mages and Silphiette (Chapter 73)

 

[Digital_Franz]

I believe is Demon God because at this point of the story is the reference and his the "popular one" in the laplace war.

Same for me.

So anybody is LS in reactions in this room?

No. Probably LS perception at a certain distance.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

No. Probably LS perception at a certain distance.

Oh no percepction vs reactions again. Better i will prepare the actualization of the scale

 

[Digital_Franz]

Also I wanted to report that I don't think the Auber Sword of Light deflection is completely viable as a speed feat. He was already brandishing the blade in front of him before Eris attacked. It's more of a strength feat.

Hmm. Will we have a simple good estimate of the speed with all these complications? I still believe that the fight between Ghislaine and Almanfi can be a supportive feat.

 

[Digital_Franz]

then the protection of the armor and, accordingly, a swordsman of the appropriate level will also be at the level of large mountain or islands

The fact is that Saint-tier Durability can be Island level and for Mk.1 its Durability is Multi-Continent level (was able to take blows from serious Orsted).