Musashi vs Luffy

[KGiffoni]

Musashi


Luffy


King Of The Pirates: 2 (CinCameron20, ZackMoon)

Greatest Swordsman In History: 8 (Amlad22, Dark-Carioca, OotE, Patricio, HI3, Buttersamuri, NotoriusSoda, Calaca)


Speed is equalized. Both are 7-C. They fight in a circular arena with 20m of diameter and Musashi has all his blades.

This is Skypie Saga Luffy. Both are bloodlusted.

As requested by The Calaca.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

So whats stopping Luffy from oneshotting?

 

[KGiffoni]

Musashi is above 45-60 kilotons. Luffy is 35 kilotons

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Musashi has 8-B dura

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Im pretty sure Luffy would eventually land a hit on him

 

[KGiffoni]

Oh. I always forget that.

Still, can't he make up for that via skill and also since he can potentially one-shot Luffy as well? And even on the ranged domain, he has sense manip and pain manip.

Precise precognition would also make it fairly hard for Luffy to hit him.

 

[The_Calaca]

Not like Luffy would grab the swords to fight at all.

 

[KGiffoni]

I'm not sure if you're being ironic (sorry lol) but i'll remove that part anyways since OOTE just mentioned Musashi's 8-B dura.

Calaca, do you think this fight is fair? Luffy can one-shot, but do you think Musashi's advantages can make up for it? Personally, i do.

 

[The_Calaca]

I think it is. Baki characters' skill is a great advantage.

 

[KGiffoni]

In this case i think it's alright to keep this going.

 

[Amlad22]

Musashi takes this simply due to them being bloodlusted. Luffy would be lucky to land a hit and even then Musashi has been shown to have incredible stamina that keeps him going after big hits.

Bloodlusted Musashi would be constantly looking for the quickest way to end the fight, utilizing his precog and telepathy to read Luffy's moves before he even makes them. These abilities have allowed him to react to and counter Demon Back Baki, who was stronger and faster than him physically. He can then simply use his far superior skill to counter and kill Luffy by cutting his head off or paralyze him with fear and kill him that way.

 

[KGiffoni]

"Big hits" doesn't even describe it. If he gets hit as much as 1 time, he gets completly vaporized and whatnot.

But yeah, vote counted.

 

[Amlad22]

Oh no he's taken Low 7-C hits and kept going. I mean look at his fight with Hanayama. He gets absolutely smashed by the hits but he has the stamina to keep going despite massive damage. I know 7-C isn't the same as Low 7-C but it's close. I think he can afford to make one mistake against Luffy basically. But then again, that won't happen due to superior skill, precog, telepathy and fear inducement that leads to paralysis like I said

 

[KGiffoni]

But these are 7-C hits he'll be taking.

If he tanked Low 7-C hits with severe damage his durability should be 8-A.

 

[Amlad22]

Musashi has also taken damage from those with High 8-C and 8-B ratings though so eh. It's Itagaki. What can we do.

My main point is not even his stamina. I don't think he'd get hit once and I gave my points for why. Luffy would be lucky to scratch him with a glancing blow lol.

 

[The_Calaca]

The varying durability is a problem. By how it sounds, surviving to DB Baki sounds more like an outlier if there are more cases where he's damaged by inferior people.

 

[KGiffoni]

He did tank a kick to the balls by Base Yujiro. I think it's more like Retsu and the others eventually evolved to Low 7-C, not that Musashi has 8-B durability.

 

[Amlad22]

He's more consistently been shown at 8-B. Hence the rating. Itagaki along with many other mangaka treat nut shots as dura negation. And as such shouldn't be used to justify durability. His only true case of taking attacks not directed at vital points from people ranked Low 7-C and higher come from Baki and Hanayama. And in those two instances, Baki's hit knocked him out cold for a bit and Hanayama would have killed him had he not bought time to recover and lessened the blow by blocking with his sword. Musashi is not 7-C basically.

 

[The_Calaca]

Okay, so Luffy one-shots. He slaps at 35KT characters.

If he manages to do it, that's another deal.

 

[Amlad22]

He can't hit him lol

 

[The_Calaca]

Some of the reasons you mentioned are things Luffy has overcome at this point.

 

[Amlad22]

His profile didn't say that when I checked.

He 110% isn't as skilled or even close to skill as Musashi

If Luffy has resisted telepathy that would be news to me

Fear manipulation I feel like he has resisted that but I don't remember for sure.

 

[The_Calaca]

It's not like he has resistance to Precognition or Telepathy. But he's able to circumvent Enel's Haki quite well.

No, he hasn't resisted Fear Hax.

 

[Amlad22]

What exactly can Enel do with his Haki? Musashi literally reads your mind and knows what you'll do before you even do it. You'd pretty much have to be resistant to telepathy or mind control type abilities to negate that advantage.

 

[The_Calaca]

The same, actually. Haki users can not only read their opponents minds in the same way Musashi does. More advanced users can see the future, but Enel isn't confirmed to do this.

Luffy basically bypassed this turning his mind off to dodge, relying on instincts, effectively nullifying Enel's advantage that Haki gives. He can't do this to attack, although he can use Tako techniques to ricochet his arms and move them in ways he doesn't even expect, which also works against precognition users.

On the other hand, Luffy's prone to take Musashi's swords if given the chance. He wouldn't use them because he's not a swordsman, but he tends to disarm his opponents if their weapons pose a problem for him.

Musashi is by far the most skilled enemy he has faced. His fight with Lucci would make him a better fighter against him, but not nearly enough.

How good are those haxes Musashi has and how do they work?

 

[Amlad22]

Ok so Luffy might actually be able to turn off his mind so to say to counter Musashi. However that's assuming he's not killed before he realizes that's what he needs to do. Musashi doesn't exactly tell people that he's reading their mind right away, and considering Musashi could behead him on the first try, Luffy could easily lose this before he even knows what Musashi is doing.

Luffy would also need to deal with Musashi's fear manipulation. When he gets serious or bloodlusted, just being in his presence will cause you to fear him and view him as a natural disaster.

Luffy would be under this effect from the start of the match essentially, and it would make it even more of a stretch to say he'd figure out Musashi's ability before he's dead.

If we assume Luffy knew Musashi's powers pre fight, I'd say he could take this. But going into it without knowing puts him at a disadvantage I still can't see him overcoming.

 

[The_Calaca]

Considering Luffy has experienced fighting against a precog user, and the fact that he has recognized it from seeing his master doing it before he started his training, he'd recognize it very soon.

But with the fear hax and the bloodlust turning Musashi's personality off, he'd kill Luffy the moment he gets the chance.

So yeah, Musashi should take this. Fear Hax is still something troublesome for OP.

 

[CinCameron20]

People be underselling Luffy's combative intellect at this point. He has overcome pre-cog before, and a blade user isn't automatically going to be able to beat Luffy just because they can cut him.

Luffy is not some idiot who would start throwing ranged punches when he can CLEARLY see his opponent wielding a sword. He is going to be careful because he is aware of his own weakness. Not to mention Baki's use of his abstract blade will likely backfire in a way that will make Luffy even more cautious in approaching him. Luffy is very strong when it comes to his instincts and he generally knows when something is not what it seems (see his fight w/ Mr 3, and his encounters before).

Luffy ALWAYS either disarms/breaks/catches a bladed weapon (As he has done to Arlong, Enel, Crocodile, Buggy etc by this point--one of them having pre-cog and most of the others having more variety of attack patterns than Baki) and all he would have to do is land a single attack to one-shot Baki.

If Luffy hits Baki, it's a one-shot. Don't even try to argue otherwise. A solid hit will put him down, and even if he remains conscious, he wont be able to move taking a solid hit by someone >>35x higher than his durability. Baki hits Luffy, Luffy can take the hit as the AP/Dura gap is significantly less than double. Even worse for Baki since Luffy can end the fight in one motion: hold the blade in place (either catch it or hold it in place if it happens to connect), then land a counter attack, which can happen in quick succession due to Luffy's nigh limitless agility due to his rubber body.

Baki messes up, he loses instantly.

Luffy messes up, he has multiple opportunities unless he takes a blow to a vital area that only needs a decent cut to kill him.

Luffy wins.

 

[Amlad22]

Yeah my thoughts exactly. It's not that Luffy can never counter it. He can. But the battle will be done long before that.

Musashi has shown us too that his favourite way of killing someone is off with the head. Which only makes this a more gruesome death for the pirate.

 

[Amlad22]

@CinCameron20

First off this is Musashi, not Baki. I don't know where you got that from.

To counter your points though. Luffy has countered precog, when he has had time to learn from it. He doesn't learn from the very first hit. Especially if his head is now rolling on the floor after said hit

Musashi is bloodlusted, which means no abstract blades. He uses though almost never when he's serious. Luffy will have literally nothing idea what Musashi can do until he's dead. It doesn't matter if he's cautious or not. He has to make a move, and as soon as he does, Musashi reads his mind, knows what he will do, counters it and cuts Luffy's head clean off.

Also as I stated above, Musashi has passive fear hax when he's serious that will severely mess with Luffy's senses and make him act less rationally. Luffy has zero resistance to this as well.

Luffy wouldn't be able to do anything to his blade as I said already. As soon as he attacks, Musashi will instantly kill him. There isn't any time where Luffy can do anything. The only way he can come out of this match as a winner is if he somehow survives the first attack. However as I said, Musashi will go for a kill shot right away and has the potency to do it.

 

[Amlad22]

Also I'm the idiot who is just now realizing this. If we are using Musashi's second key. He doesn't even have a sword. He uses his hands which in this state are far superior to his swords in every way. So to Luffy, he will look unarmed.

This is just icing on the cake for Musashi's victory, as Luffy wouldn't even realize that his opponent is "armed" with a sword. This is just getting worse and worse for Luffy

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Musashi FRA

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Musashi gets my vote.

He was an even better opponent to Yujiro than Kaku Kaioh, and Kaku already far surpasses Luffy in speed.

 

[KGiffoni]

Counted and counted.

 

[The_Calaca]

Uh... Dark Carioca's vote relies on KK being faster than Luffy which:

• A) Not true. Check the profiles.

• B) Speed is equal.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Point B taken, but Kaku is definitely faster than Luffy based on this, which we Baki supporters will talk more about in later Baki speed revisions.

Also, even if we're ignoring speed, I'm confident on Musashi being stronger than Luffy, unless he challenges him in the same manner Pickle did.

 

[The_Calaca]

I did the calc and even if you assume 1000x that speed you'd get Mach 78.

Nobody denied Musashi is stronger.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Ah, that is lower than Luffy, I assumed the second speed key was for the Skypeia arc.

Even so, Kaku considered those speeds stupidly easy to reach and he's one of only a few opponents who have pushed back Yujiro and even forced him to dodge attacks (and Musashi still tagged him quite a few times), and let's not forget that the Ogre can dodge lightning.

 

[The_Calaca]

Such feat should be calculated, because Luffy's scaling to Zoro who can move at Mach 721 and defeated Enel who's lightning itself.

Not like it matters, speed is still equalized here. Otherwise, Luffy'd blitz.

 

[CinCameron20]

Okay, i simply misunderstood his name because of the parenthesis around "Baki" and i vaguely remember the manga, so i was sitting here like "Wait, is that a nickname? K"