Multiplier standards clarification

[DontTalkDT]

Alright, so as everyone hopefully knows we have standards for multipliers. I want to clarify and add some things on that page.

This is in regard to the following paragraph

However, a good statement alone is not enough to get a high multiplier accepted. The amount of extra evidence one has to provide to get larger multipliers accepted is proportional to the size of the multiplier. For lower multipliers, like things much less than times 100, evidence can take the form of a clear increase in combat strength against priorly equal or superior opponents. For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.

Now, this is one of the most important parts of the page. The point is that verses aren't supposed to be able to indefinitely boost themselves beyond any actual feats they have, just by characters repeatedly stomping each other.
Now, I begin seeing that in some verses, but that's not what I want to talk about here.
What I do want to talk about is the "importance to the plot of the story"-part. I believe the spirit of the rule is that just scaling chains and stomping characters alone shouldn't suffice for x100 multipliers and above, but... well, importance to the plot of the story is so very vague that it in practice can be handled that way.
After all, one can argue that the character gaining the multiplier is of importance to the plot for the simple reason that they wouldn't have won the battle otherwise.
So to keep with the spirit of the rule, I think we should reformulate that.
What I would suggest is to say instead:

For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence becomes increasingly necessary. Examples include:

1. Displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to.
2. The specific value of the multiplier having importance to the plot of the story, beyond the character just getting much stronger.

I would also suggest to add one more criteria to that list.

3. The multipliers value is justified through a mechanism. E.g. a character gets 200 times stronger due to absorbing 200 clones of itself.

So yeah, those are my suggestions for this time around.
Although, if anyone has any ideas how to put the increasing requirement of evidence into more objective/enforceable terms I'm very open for ideas. I think we currently, in practice, demand virtually the same amount of evidence for multipliers in the hundreds, thousands, millions and billions since we have no clear idea what level of evidence we should even expect. Personally, I have no idea how one could improve on that, though.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think that might be one method, but would the likelihood of there existing powerscaling chains within the criteria of where power scaling chains involving multiple instances of smaller multipliers are involved and eventually stacked together possibly be some criteria? And possibly multiple instances of Character A's power level outside of multiplier transformations is stronger than a character B at their peak even with a "Smaller multipliers", who also has the same type of multiplier?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Obviously the greater the multiplier, the more evidence should be required but to some extent this would limit characters who have a stated multiplier of 100 but only has the one statement and stomps as evidence but also has no anti feats either. It would make it seem like we're denying them stated buffs and want them to gymnastics just to get something that doesn't have anti-feats to be applied.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Doesn't this make the multiplier standards a lot more lenient?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I think that might be one method, but would the likelihood of there existing powerscaling chains within the criteria of where power scaling chains involving multiple instances of smaller multipliers are involved and eventually stacked together possibly be some criteria? And possibly multiple instances of Character A's power level outside of multiplier transformations is stronger than a character B at their peak even with a "Smaller multipliers", who also has the same type of multiplier?

I don't think so. As the page states:

If multiple multipliers are to be stacked, that are used upon each other, the evidence for the end result is equal to the total multiplier applied to the best feat. That means that if, for example, a character has a times 10 multiplier and later on gets another times 50 multiplier, than the evidence necessary to use both multipliers to get a statistic, is like that of a times 500 multiplier, as the best feat would be increased by a factor of 500 in that case.

Basically, stacked multipliers receive the same scrutiny as a multiplier that is the product of all of them. After all they, likewise, just indicate a big jump above any actual feat.

Obviously the greater the multiplier, the more evidence should be required but to some extent this would limit characters who have a stated multiplier of 100 but only has the one statement and stomps as evidence but also has no anti feats either. It would make it seem like we're denying them stated buffs and want them to gymnastics just to get something that doesn't have anti-feats to be applied.

We for a long time didn't allow multipliers at all and for a good reason. Our calculated values are already fan-values, so relying on the author intend to stack with them is a big assumption.
And, quite frankly, a verse which has only town level feats being planet level via multipliers and a few stomps alone is ridiculous. At some point a verse should follow up with actual feats or it degrades to abusing math to ignore what is shown on screen... or not shown on screen. At some point the lack of any feat remotely mirroring the level becomes an anti-feat in itself.
Not to mention that characters just repeatedly scaling to their own multipliers means that they virtually become stronger just by the series running for longer.

We are ultimately doing feat based debates, judging characters by what they show. Some extrapolation beyond that is fine, but... well, know the saying "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"? That. A times a million multiplier is an extraordinary claim, so you gotta bring extraordinary evidence to the table.

 

[XDragnoir]

Well, i agree with everything but i have a question, let's use the example the page itself gives:

A 10x followed by a 50x would need evidence for a 500x.

But let's say the 10x got through via the 3rd criteria, fusing 10 clones for example, while the 50x got through via the 2nd criteria, accumulating energy for 50 days would be good enough ig.

Both multipliers work differently but would they be valid enough to get the 500x multiplier through? Or does there need to be extra evidence due to the stacking?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Can you provide an example of a verse that currently uses multiplier that wouldn't be able to under these new rules and one that would still be fine?

 

[Damage3245]

And, quite frankly, a verse which has only town level feats being planet level via multipliers and a few stomps alone is ridiculous. At some point a verse should follow up with actual feats or it degrades to abusing math to ignore what is shown on screen... or not shown on screen. At some point the lack of any feat remotely mirroring the level becomes an anti-feat in itself.
Not to mention that characters just repeatedly scaling to their own multipliers means that they virtually become stronger just by the series running for longer.

I agree with this point. Long multiplier scaling chains that vastly outreach the actual feats of the verse are problematic.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

We for a long time didn't allow multipliers at all and for a good reason. Our calculated values are already fan-values, so relying on the author intend to stack with them is a big assumption.
And, quite frankly, a verse which has only town level feats being planet level via multipliers and a few stomps alone is ridiculous. At some point a verse should follow up with actual feats or it degrades to abusing math to ignore what is shown on screen... or not shown on screen. At some point the lack of any feat remotely mirroring the level becomes an anti-feat in itself.
Not to mention that characters just repeatedly scaling to their own multipliers means that they virtually become stronger just by the series running for longer.

We are ultimately doing feat based debates, judging characters by what they show. Some extrapolation beyond that is fine, but... well, know the saying "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"? That. A times a million multiplier is an extraordinary claim, so you gotta bring extraordinary evidence to the table.

Can you provide a verse that jumps from Town level to Planet level via multipliers only? And if we are using calculations that aren't legitimate than we might as well scrap calculations as a whole using this logic.

I agree with this point. Long multiplier scaling chains that vastly outreach the actual feats of the verse are problematic.

Can you provide verses that do this? I'd like several examples.

 

[DontTalkDT]

And if we are using calculations that aren't legitimate than we might as well scrap calculations as a whole using this logic.

Not calculations that aren't legitimate. Calculations that don't mirror author intent. If an author writes a multiplier they assume the multiplier applies to what they think is the strength of the character. So if the feats don't ever remotely match the multiplier it might be due to that.

Can you provide a verse that jumps from Town level to Planet level via multipliers only?


Can you provide verses that do this? I'd like several examples.

Can you provide an example of a verse that currently uses multiplier that wouldn't be able to under these new rules and one that would still be fine?

None of my verses uses large multipliers, I believe. In fact, Qiqi is probably the only character I manage that does a tier jump via multiplier.
In so far, while I suspect some verses could be victim of this, I am not actually sure of any. In general, I would rather not call out specific verses on this in the thread, as I know from experience that this would just become a CRT for those verses and the general debate about the ruling would become secondary. Not to mention that tying it to downgrades for verses makes this subject to positive & negative bias, which I try to avoid whenever possible.

So yeah, let's just talk about the general case.

Well, i agree with everything but i have a question, let's use the example the page itself gives:

A 10x followed by a 50x would need evidence for a 500x.

But let's say the 10x got through via the 3rd criteria, fusing 10 clones for example, while the 50x got through via the 2nd criteria, accumulating energy for 50 days would be good enough ig.

Both multipliers work differently but would they be valid enough to get the 500x multiplier through? Or does there need to be extra evidence due to the stacking?

Since both have sufficient evidence for the combined thing, that would be ok in my book.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Not calculations that aren't legitimate. Calculations that don't mirror author intent. If an author writes a multiplier they assume the multiplier applies to what they think is the strength of the character. So if the feats don't ever remotely match the multiplier it might be due to that.

Fair enough but don't we already throw author intent out the window if it's not backed by what is shown?

None of my verses uses large multipliers, I believe. In fact, Qiqi is probably the only character I manage that does a tier jump via multiplier.
In so far, while I suspect some verses could be victim of this, I am not actually sure of any. In general, I would rather not call out specific verses on this in the thread, as I know from experience that this would just become a CRT for those verses and the general debate about the ruling would become secondary. Not to mention that tying it to downgrades for verses makes this subject to positive & negative bias, which I try to avoid whenever possible.

So yeah, let's just talk about the general case.

Alright then.

 

[XDragnoir]

I mean, i think i know around 3 verses that have many tier jumps via multipliers but i don't know a single verse that has multipliers to the point of getting to tier 5 from tier 7 or anything that ridiculous.

Also, can't we have another criteria with just consistently using multipliers? I think verses that go more with that route rather than increasingly bigger explosions shouldn't get a no at some point cause their total number got into the thousands or something

 

[Bernkastelll]

I mean, i think i know around 3 verses that have many tier jumps via multipliers but i don't know a single verse that has multipliers to the point of getting to tier 5 from tier 7 or anything that ridiculous.

This verse jumps from tier 6-C to High 6-A/5-C due Billions times multipliers

I Was Caught up in a Hero Summoning, but That World Is at Peace

I Was Caught up in a Hero Summoning, but That World Is at Peace, otherwise known as Yuusha Shoukan ni Makikomareta kedo, Isekai wa Heiwa deshita YuuShou or Isekai at Peace, follows Miyama Kaito who suddenly appears in a different world, after being caught up in a Hero Summoning. And of course...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DontTalkDT]

Fair enough but don't we already throw author intent out the window if it's not backed by what is shown?

Yep, if it's not backed by what is shown. We primarily judge characters by what we see them doing. Huge multipliers that are never followed up by feats, are the exact opposite of what is shown. That's the problem. We aren't shown anything to match them.

I mean, i think i know around 3 verses that have many tier jumps via multipliers but i don't know a single verse that has multipliers to the point of getting to tier 5 from tier 7 or anything that ridiculous.

Also, can't we have another criteria with just consistently using multipliers? I think verses that go more with that route rather than increasingly bigger explosions shouldn't get a no at some point cause their total number got into the thousands or something

Tier 7 to tier 5 was maybe an exaggeration (although, if we are debating general possibility, it's a case worth considering), but I know characters that jump like 7 tiers via stacked multipliers that in total reach the hundreds of millions.

Nah, just consistency is not enough at a certain point. Especially since we tend to explain away virtually any inconsistency that might happen. As said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. At a certain point, you should provide more than just no contradictions if your claimed stats don't match up with any actual feats.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, the multipliers on my mind (And pretty much a lot of other people's minds as well) have less to do with AP and more to do with speed; well it's a multiplier equally applicable for both officially that is consistent with the lore. The verse I'm talking about has no AP tier jumps via multipliers alone as all tiers comes from either statements backed up from every form of media and/or are very specific or destruction feats that clearly happened on screen/panel. Accept for some mid series parts down the lane where characters in between High 5-A+ and 4-B are taking place that is.

But for example, there is an in verse multiplier that is literally in our faces about being an X times multiplier. Specifically stating it uses X times more energy to multiply strength, power, speed, and toughness by X. And it's basically a technique that gives a temporary multiplier between 2 and 10 depending on the level. But it's consistent through multiple reactive power level/accelerated development boosts that the character(s) in question have their base forms surpassed a maxed multiplier version of the previous power level. Then we have a casual Relativistic+ speed feat that also doubled as a Moon level and planetary range feat, which also surpasses another moon level/planetary range feat that was Sub-Relativistic+ feat just a spec away from baseline Relativistic speed. And we eventually get to characters being Quadrillions of times FTL via a legit speed feat. But everyone else in between gets their speed ratings from multipliers.

The one practice I'm against is using a Golden Mean fallacy; because if a multiplier is accepted as having every detail to qualify as a legit 2-10x multiplier for both tier and speed; and it's pretty much the most consistent thing in the entire franchise. Then we might as well use it for each time it's used; as using multipliers at first and then stop using them completely half way through despite there being no changes for how the multipliers work still sets a bad precedent and a double standard within the same verse. It kind of feel like an all or nothing situation where each and every individual instance of said multiplier being used should be treated the same way. Whether it's a accepted as a multiplier for both speed and AP, whether it's just for AP and not speed (Which is a contradiction to the specific statement), or just avoiding them altogether. But saying it's one of those at first, then the next one mid way, and then treating them as not one by the end is still cherry picking situations.

 

[DontTalkDT]

But for example, there is an in verse multiplier that is literally in our faces about being an X times multiplier. Specifically stating it uses X times more energy to multiply strength, power, speed, and toughness by X. And it's basically a technique that gives a temporary multiplier between 2 and 10 depending on the level. But it's consistent through multiple reactive power level/accelerated development boosts that the character(s) in question have their base forms surpassed a maxed multiplier version of the previous power level. Then we have a casual Relativistic+ speed feat that also doubled as a Moon level and planetary range feat, which also surpasses another moon level/planetary range feat that was Sub-Relativistic+ feat just a spec away from baseline Relativistic speed. And we eventually get to characters being Quadrillions of times FTL via a legit speed feat. But everyone else in between gets their speed ratings from multipliers.

That sounds like it is backed up by both comparable feats at certain parts of the story and some mechanics, so by my suggested standard above that would be fine for multipliers in the tens or hundreds.

The one practice I'm against is using a Golden Mean fallacy; because if a multiplier is accepted as having every detail to qualify as a legit 2-10x multiplier for both tier and speed; and it's pretty much the most consistent thing in the entire franchise. Then we might as well use it for each time it's used; as using multipliers at first and then stop using them completely half way through despite there being no changes for how the multipliers work still sets a bad precedent and a double standard within the same verse. It kind of feel like an all or nothing situation where each and every individual instance of said multiplier being used should be treated the same way. Whether it's a accepted as a multiplier for both speed and AP, whether it's just for AP and not speed (Which is a contradiction to the specific statement), or just avoiding them altogether. But saying it's one of those at first, then the next one mid way, and then treating them as not one by the end is still cherry picking situations.

I mean, using the multiplier every time it's used is fine as far as we are not stacking it.

If a character uses a x5 multiplier, then has another character scale to it, then scale in base to that character and then uses the multiplier again... and repeat that like 10 times so that you have a x5^10 (i.e. x9765625) multiplier in total, with nothing backing that up... then perhaps one needs to talk about the scaling or multiplier in general and see what one does about that. Honestly, multipliers constantly getting trivialized without new feats isn't the best look for them.

---

Anyways, we are getting lost talking about what largely are our current regulations. Anyone have an opinion on the two changes I proposed above?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Is this thread finished?

Anyone have an opinion on the two changes I proposed above?

Its fine. It provides better clarification for what is considered evidence needed to support multipliers.

Not calculations that aren't legitimate. Calculations that don't mirror author intent. If an author writes a multiplier they assume the multiplier applies to what they think is the strength of the character. So if the feats don't ever remotely match the multiplier it might be due to that.

What if the best calc was performed to mirror the author's intent? For instance, if the best calc mirrors or is below the author's intent for their characters to dodge and easily react to what the story considers lightspeed attacks very early in the story, would the multipliers the author generates in the story be more valid?

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Andytrenom @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz

Your input or further input would be appreciated here.

 

[ByAsura]

100 times is an arbitrary cap, imo. But I get the logic.

Anyway, what about something like this, where small and consistent multipliers are stacked to give huge multipliers (only two of which exceed that 100-fold multiplier)? I know you've had this question previously, but some of those higher multipliers are via the exact same transformations as the lower multipliers.

For some clarification, the characters in this verse have pretty consistent feats and statements about destroying a country.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think caps should really be case by case and shouldn't be limited to a random mid point. Because especially cases where it's multiple steps of stacking 2-10x multipliers via consistent scaling chains that eventually lead to a couple thousands or even millions or billions still doesn't tackle the main point that the concept of the "Transformation/technique causes the multiplier" is still officially consistent as the same amp regardless of the period it is used. Meaning it has to be treated as the same multiplier with each and every step; treating at as the 2-10x multiplier for the first few cases but then not treating it as a multiplier at all once we get to mid series is just cherry picking at its finest. Either go all out, or don't use them at all if we have consistency of them being the same amps.

Also, I especially think if the purpose is actually to determine a giant list of inbetweeners should also be a reason to not make such as random cap as being locked to triple digits. Plenty of multipliers are uber consistent as both an AP and speed multiplier equally; in which AP ones have been left uncontroversial but people took issues with them being used for speed scaling. But I think using them to determine the speed of various characters many times faster than a Relativistic+ character while approaching some characters who are in the Quadrillions of times FTL has little reason to be making speed multiplier caps any less than 2000x. Since excluding the gaps between High 5-A+ and 4-B in terms of AP, no one else tier jumps via AP multipliers with just characters just being higher in 5-B, higher in 4-B, or few who downscale from a High 5-A and one who downscales from a 5-B.

Even DT has sort of okayed the example I brought up.

 

[GyroNutz]

Agree with the OP, this would only serve to make our standards less subjective. Where we have large scaling chains from lots of small, consistent multipliers stacked up, we should take it case by case, as the larger overall multiplier should have a larger burden of proof and is less likely to be consistent anyway.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This is very case by case and should be handled as such

Also if a multiplier is stated to be an increase of a specific number, it is 100% valid to use in the right context

 

[DontTalkDT]

What "100 is an arbitrary cap" thing is concerned, I think I'm going to note the obvious when I say that a line has to be drawn somewhere. If the line isn't in the rules, then it will either establish itself via precedence cases or it will just get ignored entirely. So it's better to put it somewhere.

The rules still allow for plenty of case-by-case. For a 1 million x multiplier there's plenty of wiggle room for standards, just that they need to fulfill at least the 100x stuff. Beyond that one can still look case-by-case which level of standards one is fine with. (establishing the option of voting against them even if they fulfill basic standards is already worth a lot though)

I think caps should really be case by case and shouldn't be limited to a random mid point. Because especially cases where it's multiple steps of stacking 2-10x multipliers via consistent scaling chains that eventually lead to a couple thousands or even millions or billions still doesn't tackle the main point that the concept of the "Transformation/technique causes the multiplier" is still officially consistent as the same amp regardless of the period it is used. Meaning it has to be treated as the same multiplier with each and every step; treating at as the 2-10x multiplier for the first few cases but then not treating it as a multiplier at all once we get to mid series is just cherry picking at its finest. Either go all out, or don't use them at all if we have consistency of them being the same amps.

So, in other words, if the multiplier gets stacked and doesn't live up to the higher standards then we should just stop using the multiplier for the lower forms as well?

Guess that's an option. Although, personally, I'm more in the "if it gets too far from actual feats without proper support just cut it off somewhere"-camp.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. I think that The God of High School will likely be the most negatively affected by this, if no multipliers beyond 100 will be accepted under any circumstances.

 

[Nierre]

No God of Highschool is very very explicit and isn't conflicted with the canon material

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Multipliers over 100x are fine, hell multipliers that are stated to be 1000000x are fine as long as they're direct

The major concerns come from constant minor speed multipliers are stacked over and over again to massive increase and yet feats in the Manga suggest the speed gap isn't that large

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Moritzva]

This makes sense.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here so far?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Let me just clarify something

1. There should NEVER be a CAP for multiplier stacking as long as the multipliers are 100% valid. If something is directly stated to be a 10x amplification to Attack Potency and they end up stacking these multipliers across the entire series, then regardless of what we feel, these direct multipliers are the narrative and they are what should be used. Dragon Ball has massive multiplier scaling and it's entirely supported by the characters being shown to get thousands to hundreds of thousands stronger in the story.

2. The ONLY time multiplier stacking should be questioned and negated is if the multipliers themselves are not entirely valid and if other feats DIRECTLY contradict them. For instance, in Fairy Tail, we used to have stacked multipliers that pushed certain characters above the Speed of Light, however at a later point, a certain character was stated to directly be the Speed of Light, meaning that we had to negate and get rid of the multiplier chain we had because it completely contradicted direct stated speeds.

That's it. We shouldn't put an arbitrary cap on multiplier stacking, as every series has different usages of multipliers and scaling, with many being valid and many being invalid. Like I've seen many series where one character has a 10x multiplier, and then another character defeats them while using only 1% of their power, with the percentages being linear in this case. If the initial characters power is 1 Megaton, then with their multiplier, they are 10 Megatons, but since the other character defeated that 10 Megaton character with 1% of their power, their 100% power would be 1000 Megatons. That ends up being a 1000x increase due to stacking multipliers, but it is still entirely valid. So yeah, that's my whole stance on the matter.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Bare in mind, I don't disagree that bigger number statements may be prone to hyperbole. Like if there is a throwaway line of someone stating to be "A million times stronger now" I'd agree random statements like that are prone to hyperbole. But stacking a multitude of smaller multipliers to get multipliers in the thousands and millions shouldn't be compared especially if the specific statements are clearly done using face value statements. Such as the fact that the power clearly refers to the energy output, and it's equally a speed and durability multiplier as well.

For example, Kaioken has been one of the most blatant examples of a 2-10x multiplier ever since it was introduced to refer to AP, combat speed, and durability. And the same thing got repeated in our faces as recently as Super. So the most logical conclusion is that it's always those individually and no amount of stacking changes the face value evidence. And the only details beyond stacked multipliers is everyone in the same chain is many times stronger/faster than a Relativistic+ character but well below someone Quadrillions of times FTL. Which has always remained consistent regardless of multipliers.

So yeah, I think Mitch is making strong points here.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Let me just clarify something

1. There should NEVER be a CAP for multiplier stacking as long as the multipliers are 100% valid. If something is directly stated to be a 10x amplification to Attack Potency and they end up stacking these multipliers across the entire series, then regardless of what we feel, these direct multipliers are the narrative and they are what should be used. Dragon Ball has massive multiplier scaling and it's entirely supported by the characters being shown to get thousands to hundreds of thousands stronger in the story.

2. The ONLY time multiplier stacking should be questioned and negated is if the multipliers themselves are not entirely valid and if other feats DIRECTLY contradict them. For instance, in Fairy Tail, we used to have stacked multipliers that pushed certain characters above the Speed of Light, however at a later point, a certain character was stated to directly be the Speed of Light, meaning that we had to negate and get rid of the multiplier chain we had because it completely contradicted direct stated speeds.

That's it. We shouldn't put an arbitrary cap on multiplier stacking, as every series has different usages of multipliers and scaling, with many being valid and many being invalid. Like I've seen many series where one character has a 10x multiplier, and then another character defeats them while using only 1% of their power, with the percentages being linear in this case. If the initial characters power is 1 Megaton, then with their multiplier, they are 10 Megatons, but since the other character defeated that 10 Megaton character with 1% of their power, their 100% power would be 1000 Megatons. That ends up being a 1000x increase due to stacking multipliers, but it is still entirely valid. So yeah, that's my whole stance on the matter.

I cannot agree more. As I have said before, why do I need to provide evidence for something entirely built on facts? As long as the multiplier itself is well substantiated and the scaling is correct then there should be no issue with stacking multipliers provided that there are no anti feats.

 

[PrinceofPein]

While I agree with Mitch, the said verse should also have a feat outside the multiplier that is close to the said multipliers.
I mean if a verse only feat was Country level and through stacking of multiple multipliers throughout the series, they could get to Planet level without an actual showing of anything even remotely close to that, that brings up an issue.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

While I agree with Mitch, the said verse should also have a feat outside the multiplier that is close to the said multipliers.
I mean if a verse only feat was Country level and through stacking of multiple multipliers throughout the series, they could get to Planet level without an actual showing of anything even remotely close to that, that brings up an issue.

I mean kinda, but it depends on the context of how they got there. Every verse is a case by case.

The difference between Country level and Planet level is at bare minimum over 6 Million times. If you somehow got that large a gap, I would definitely heavily examine the multipliers being used on the profiles and the evidence around that, but if it's legit, it is legit

 

[Arnoldstone18]

We would just have to hope there are no Authors crazy enough to consistently portray consistent multipliers like that without even a statement pointing towards it.

Right now I doubt anyone can give one or two examples of extreme cases like that.

In my opinion it may be a different case to me if we had many extreme examples, but we don’t even have 1. And even if 1 happens in the future, like DemonGodMitch said, if it’s legit… it’s legit.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

While I agree with Mitch, the said verse should also have a feat outside the multiplier that is close to the said multipliers.
I mean if a verse only feat was Country level and through stacking of multiple multipliers throughout the series, they could get to Planet level without an actual showing of anything even remotely close to that, that brings up an issue.

True on paper, I do agree that people shouldn't be too far above Country level if a Country level feat is literally the strongest feat in the verse, but I think having a giant list of characters between planet level and solar system level is a different story too.

 

[Arkenis]

Thank god Im not necroing (hopefully)
I agree with the plot part. I think what should be more effected by these changes are speed since in verses speed differences can become pretty much just a random blitz here or there with a 10x or 50x slapped on yet we end up having to work around feats such as people getting tagged by certain projectiles or by characters later on and it ends up being “they got faster” when in reality the multiplier didn’t take into account our fan calcs nor was the character shown/stated to have trained to jump tiers in speed.

So essentially I’m saying if a character is say able to dodge lightning and then later on he gets a multiplier, the multiplier should be consistent with other characters jumping in speed with them having trained to make the multiplier work with the new scaling.

Example: Character A and Character B are relative in speed at the start of one arc and then the next arc comes and Character A gets a multiplier of 100x stated as his training or his increase in energy or a new technique allows him to do so. Character B should also have one of these to make it consistent with the story as one character in the story trained yet another was not shown/stated to making the multiplier invalid.

I think another piece of good evidence is say a character got a multiplier and it makes him ftl+ then with it he blitzes several characters who are ftl, that would be fine especially if the plot or characters push the difference in speed through quotes or lore references.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the current staff conclusions and what does DontTalk think that we should do here?

 

[Propellus]

I hope I'm not intruding when I ask this question, but has there been a 9-A with a multiplier high enough to push them up to High 7-C?