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Multi Galaxy level Godzilla stuffs

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Sprituallyricalmiraculousindividual

Sprituallyricalmiraculousindividual

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http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=33589

8.61745109E+11 Foe per second, so 8.6 terafoe multi galaxy i think

I do not think this could be an outlier because

a) if you're going to bring up godzilla dying to the planets explosion...Well, we don't even know if he actually died, and it could be just horrendous lack of AOE

Fits in quite well with other incarnations as well, and i believe he had gotten a lot more powerful by this point in time

b) nothing weak actually harmed him that much, he was just harmed by other monsters, which means they should scale instead

In total I do not really see any reason for this to be disregarded

The hell he was in portrayed a lot of similarities to the 'official' one, and the particular heat bit was referenced at one point i believe

Like I said this should scale to others.thoughts?
 
The first Godzilla calc -> black hole feats are not accepted as durability standards for 3D characters

The second Godzilla calc -> this assumes that the Godzilla interpretation of Hell = one classical interpretation of Hell that may not be well known in Japan. It is also much, much higher than his other feats, as far as I can see. Star level -> galaxy level needs a very solid calc.
 
Do you know if the 60x hotter thing is canon to Godzilla in particular though? This calc is mixing mythology with fiction. It would be like me mixing Metatron's feats from the Old Testament and downgrading his persona profile based on it, at least somewhat.
 
Even if he did possibly die during an explosion on Earth, that's irrelevant because it seems to be prior to before he even entered hell. He had powerups (like the one from God's angels) since.

And regardless of the validity of the calc above, he should still be getting a stat boost considering what he did in issue 5
 
VisaVivaLiva said:
And no it isnt, you are quite literally strawmanning this
Click to expand...
That's not a strawman, you're trying to verse equalize so don't be rude and call me inconsistent because you really want this upgrade. The burden of proof is on you - not me - to show why verse equalization is right in this case.

As for the black hole, https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Hole_feats_in_fictio ---> scroll down a bit, it's apparently a standard of this wiki. I don't care for it but it's there.
 
Alakabamm said:
VisaVivaLiva said:
And no it isnt, you are quite literally strawmanning this
Click to expand...
That's not a strawman, you're trying to verse equalize so don't be rude and call me inconsistent because you really want this upgrade. The burden of proof is on you - not me - to show why verse equalization is right in this case.
As for the black hole, https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Hole_feats_in_fictio ---> scroll down a bit, it's apparently a standard of this wiki. I don't care for it but it's there.
Click to expand...
I didnt know you could call that even slightly rude - you are also doing the definition of a strawman- also pfft, trying to accuse me of wank?

You need to tell me why it is not legitimate, I already have my points

so you're saying all black hole feats aren't legitimate? pfft
 
Okay, so I posted that link less than five minutes ago and it is a long article, so I know you didn't read it. Let me bold my point this time for you: This wiki - not me - doesn't seem to support black hole durabilty feats. Next time, read what I give you or just don't respond at all.

Secondly, it was rude because you have not only not met your burden evidence for my response to one of your implict assumptions (that what was said in Christian mythology can extend to Godzilla) but also had zero evidence that what I said was a strawman. The correct presentation of a logical fallacy is with an explanation, not as a verb.
 
Alakabamm said:
Okay, so I posted that link less than five minutes ago and it is a long article, so I know you didn't read it. Let me bold my point this time for you: This wiki - not me - doesn't seem to support black hole durabilty feats. Next time, read what I give you or just don't respond at all.
Secondly, it was rude because you have not only not met your burden evidence for my response to one of your implict assumptions (that what was said in Christian mythology can extend to Godzilla) but also had zero evidence that what I said was a strawman. The correct presentation of a logical fallacy is with an explanation, not as a verb.
Click to expand...
All what everyone should know really, nothing special - doesn't make the Black Hole calc not legit at all

Assumptions and estimating is all we can do at times. Especially since it is a backed up esitmate like this. Nothing suggests Christian-'canon' does not apply to Godzilla, but most things suggest it can

Also yes you were strawmanning it, since you used a completely different thing to make it unusable.
 
Strawmanning is not a word in the english language for good reason. Read what I said. You meeting the burden of evidence for verse equalization and addressing why or why not it is a logical fallacy are two heavily connected subjects. Tell me why Godzilla is not a seperate thing in and of itself. Is it extremely similar to biblical hell? Do the mythologies match up? It seems Godzilla fought monsters in hell - are those the same monster described in the mythos?
 
As much as I wan't Godzilla to be upgraded, Alakabamm has a point about the black hole thing. According to this site's rules, black holes are un-quantifyable, and can't be used for feats.
 
Otakuzoid said:
As much as I wan't Godzilla to be upgraded, Alakabamm has a point about the black hole thing. According to this site's rules, black holes are un-quantifyable, and can't be used for feats.
Click to expand...
That is quite literally the most irrational thing I have heard in a while
 
Alakabamm said:
Strawmanning is not a word in the english language for good reason. Read what I said. You meeting the burden of evidence for verse equalization and addressing why or why not it is a logical fallacy are two heavily connected subjects. Tell me why Godzilla is not a seperate thing in and of itself. Is it extremely similar to biblical hell? Do the mythologies match up? It seems Godzilla fought monsters in hell - are those the same monster described in the mythos?
Click to expand...
It's very similar to biblical hell, yes. Matches up pretty well, check

Godzilla fought Godzilla monsters in hell lol, but he did fight official demons I believe yes
 
I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you hear. The site's rules are the site's rules, which means that unless someone changes it, this black hole portion of this upgrade can't be integrated.

The hell bit tho, I'm still thinking about it, so I don't have a response yet.
 
How is the schwarzchild radius for a black hole not quantifiable? Assuming the black hole shows similar structure/science to a real theoretical one (like if they say not even light can escape it or what not) it can be used to determine the mass of a black hole and therefore the KE if the blackhole is moving/being moved

It should depend on how the black hole is portrayed/how much they explain it..
 
Actually looking at the rule now it says withstanding the singularity at the center which is different than the schwarzchild radius. This is a black hole that "destroys itself" afterwards also, which Godzilla would have withstood the destruction of. Just because a character withstands a singularity does not mean there is nothing that can be quantified here.

Example: Moving FTL does not "invalidate" destroying a planet while doing so. The breaking of one law of physics during a feat does not mean every aspect is broken.


The rule is basically there to stop people from saying characters have "infinite durability" which is not the case here
 
Godzilla was at the center of the singularity. A singularity by definition has infinite tidal pull. The only reason the calc'er got a value under infinity is because he treated it as a planet/star exploding. That's not the correct way to do it.
 
@Alakabamm Agreed. We have the rule because black holes almost never behave the same way as the do in real life within fiction. It is not possible to destroy them with physical force for example, as far as I know gigantic black holes/gravity well singularities cannot just suddenly disappear, and without infinite power, it should be impossible to resist them. And if they are essentially something entirely different that simply borrows the black hole name, we cannot use them for scaling.
 
Oh look, my calcs are being discussed.

First, for the black hole calc. In this very wiki's arcticle about black hole it was specifically stated that the black hole's collapse is a pure converion from mass to energy: "It will eventually grow smaller and explode (this type of detonation is a 100% efficient mass-to-energy conversion, with more potential power than a nuke or antimatter explosive)". I calculated the value based on black hole's radius. There was no word about surviving a singularity. I just calculated the energy needed to survive the collapse. And no, that's not mentioned as forbidden thing in "black holes in fiction" article the last time I looked. Same should appeal to Godzilla from Godzilla vs Megaguirus (though it's better to use kinetic energy of a black hole there, like one calcer did) and Godzilla from Heisei series (whose cells were impled to survived a natural black hole collapse in official material).

But why are you discussing the black hole stuff when the OP refers to another feat and calculation anyway? Also, it's not an outlier for at least two reasons: he was hurt by other monsters only, so they should be scaleable. And two, if he was and I overlooked that, its gonna apply to Godzilla from the last issue and Godzilla from the last issue only only. No scaling to anyone else. Why? Because Godzilla in Hell comic follows no continuity and each issie is strongly implied to not be connected with others. Hear me out: in first issue, we see how Godzilla goes in Hell, blows some shit up and proceeds. In third issue, we see that he gets in Hell after being thrown out of Heaven and fights SpaceGodzilla instead. In issue two it was said that King Ghidorah is the reason for Godzilla being in Hell. Issue three shows us that it was his fight with SpaceGodzilla that was the reason for him to be in Hell, while in issue four Godzilla faces against Destroyah and King Ghidorah in a cage match and they both dissapear as Godzilla leaves, while issue two had shown us that Ghidorah isn't bound to some single area of Hell. Finally, issue five sends Godzilla back on Earth, while it was shown in issue three that the Earth was blown up. And the feat itself that was calced to be multi-galaxy happened in issue five, where no other monster was present.

As for the nitpicks, the comic was created in America (IDW Publishing). And the version of Hell mentioned in Dictionary is the same one as the one from Christianic Theology. And the Christianic motives were referenced and shown many times in that comic.

So yeah, I support both calcs. Also, looks like more Godzilla Incarnation pages needs to be created soon. Why are there no Composite Godzilla page anyway?
 
Well, 8.6 terafoe is just very high solar system level according to our Attack Potency chart. But regardless I would like to hear more opinions regarding whether or not the black hole behaved like a real black hole, and if the hell feat is properly estimated?
 
Doesn't it take 1 teraFoe to destroy a Milky Way though?

This black hole showed all properties of the real one. Immense gravitation, nothing escaped it, everything barring Godzilla was grinded to atoms and iteventually evaporated due to it's small (relatively small for a black hole) mass.

As for the Hell... Yeah, kinda. The layer that is visually the hottest comes the last before the Gateway from Hell. It's the seventh layer Godzilla visites, like in Dictionary. The whole issue 3 is filled with Christianic motives (the statue of Christ appearing twice as a symbol, the whole "fall to Hell from Heaven" thing and the Battle of Hell and Heaven motives). So yeah, the calc has a solid basis.
 
DontTalk calculated what it would take to destroy all matter in the Milky Way with an omnidirectional energy discharge or shockwave, and ended up at an enormously higher value than the Gravitational Binding Energy, which is what we use.

Well, I am really too tired for this, but how exactly did Godzilla withstand the infinite power of the singularity of the black hole, and if it had several times the power of the GBE of the entire Milky Way galaxy, how did it just suddenly evaporate, if it behaved like a real black hole? I didn't think that it was possible to do so.

Also, if I remember correctly, there seem to have been questions above regarding the scaling of the hell's in question's size, due to using different versions than the one shown.
 
Um... Did you even read the calc before responding? The black hole one doesn't give us GBE of galaxy. It's from the Hell's calc. The energy from a black hole collapse is maximum large star level. Re-read the calc again. Witstanding the infinite power is unusable, so let's say that it's either outlier or Godzilla being immune to molecular disembowelment. It evaporated cause it's mass was relatively low for a black hole. Or the evaporation could be attributed to the Dimensional Tide's functions. Either way, everything is legit here.

As for the Hell, I am not sure why are you bringing this up. The calculation has nothing to do with Hell's size.
 
No. I am very low on focus and energy due to constant overwork exhaustion and extremely strict diet in combination, so I just read the comments here. But all right, I will try to check it out.
 
All right, I checked through it, and the hell calculation relies upon that each layer of hell is 60 times hotter than the last. Does the story in question explicitly state this fact, or is it an assumption? Is it even the same mythological version of hell?

Because I have read several stories in which ordinary close-to-human level durability superheroes have visited versions of hell and not instantly evaporated. We cannot rate every character that has ever visited hell as being able to withstand at least point blank nuclear explosion temperatures for even the higher levels.
 
The Hell feat is the one that's approaching galaxy level.

F8BModO
However by this website's standards, unless there was some change in the comments to the method of calculation, the feat is only, by the calc, Mult-Solar System. If it were valid it would scale to the base Godzilla AND upwards to Hellbat Godzilla because the hellbats ate base Godzilla alive, and Godzilla combined them all together after they ate him, which amplified his own power many times further.
 
Antvasima said:
All right, I checked through it, and the hell calculation relies upon that each layer of hell is 60 times hotter than the last. Does the story in question explicitly state this fact, or is it an assumption? Is it even the correct mythological version of hell? Because I have read several stories in which ordinary close-to-human level durability superheroes have visited versions of hell and not instantly evaporated. We cannot rate every character that has ever vistied hell as being able to withstand at least point blank nuclear explosion temperatures for even the higher levels.
Click to expand...
The Hell shown in the story is definitely the version descibed in the dictionary (thr Christianic theology one). There are many proofs to that. The layer that is visually the hottest comes the last before the Gateway from Hell. It's the seventh and the last layer Godzilla visites, like in Dictionary. The whole issue 3 is filled with Christianic motives (the statue of Christ appearing twice as a symbol, the whole "fall to Hell from Heaven" thing and the Battle of Hell and Heaven motives). So yeah, it's assumption, but it's made on a solid basis.

As for the other people who visited Hell, they might have visited the other versions of it or the less hotter layers. Godzilla, however, was strongly implied to vist this version of Hell and walk through ALL the layers.
 
@Gallavant Yes. That value in Joules would translate into low Multi-Solar system level. However, the tier also starts at 22.586 TeraFoe, so is there an inconsistency in our border descriptions, or did the Godzilla calculation get a slightly inaccurate value compared to the one that you found?
 
@Skeleturtle Well, unless we were told within the story that each layer was 60 times hotter than the last, I don't think that we can assume that this was the author's intention.
 
Well, I ussed OBD Wiki for the destructive capability levels. Didn't know you used the different system. It's kinda strange that the energy that is 8 times bigger than the GBE of Milky Way is not even at multi-sloar system level.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, unless we were told within the story that each layer was 60 times hotter than the last, I don't think that we can assume that this was the author's intention.
Click to expand...
Why not? There's a lot of presented evidence that this version of Hell is the same one that has x60 temperature rises between layers. Also, assuming authoral intent is kinda wrong, don't you think?
 
It isn't so strange really. It takes an enormously greater amount of energy to create a unidirectional energy discharge that destroys all matter in a galaxy than it takes to just hold it together.
 
What is the evidence that the author knew about the 60x hotter part? Are there any statements within the story? If not, I am afraid that we cannot accept this, as it is entirely built on assumptions. Sorry.
 
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