Godzilla Revision 3.5

[Apex_Predator_GX]

All credits go to TheDreadDormammu for finding all these scans and to Goji-Chronic for some of his dialogues.

Hello, this will be simple.

Original Godzilla

Goji54 is stated to be able to destroy mountains with his blows. This means Goji54's physical stats will be upgraded to At least Small City level by using the minimum for destroying a small mountain.

Kiryu Saga

Talking about Kiryu, he was stated to be an improved version during Tokyo SOS. Godzilla during Tokyo SOS was stated to be stronger than in the previous film. Godzilla upscales from this as he was stated to be the strongest monster in history and the monster among monsters. That is At least Multi-Continent level for the Kiryu Saga...

Godzilla Earth

This is a synopsis from the Back of the novelization for the second prequel Earth novel. According it Godzilla Earth is strong enough to destroy Stars. Which is Star level.

Void Ghidorah

He was stated to be Infinite in size by guides. Which is Large Size Type 8.

Dorola

There is a kaiju in the Zone Fighter rooster called Dorola or Dorora. Well according to various sources, it is called to be a Fourth-Dimensional Terror Beast, not enough that it can use a technique called Fourth-Dimensional Gas, in a few words it spits out a Four-Dimensional Net from its front mouth. The red mist transformed into a mysterious light, and surprisingly, the earth itself was transformed into the 4th dimension. According to Garogas, their technology is powerful enough to create Fourth Dimensional Spaces. Yes, we are talking about those Garogas, who can create Star Busting Weapons. So, I propose to upgrade the Zone Fighter Kaiju up to Tier Universe level+.

Votes

Agree: @Oiguana270, @Mr. Bambu (Agree on 54 + Earth + Large Size Type 8 ), @DarkDragonmedeuss (Agree on 54 + Earth + Large Size Type 8 + Kiryu Proposal - unsure about 4-D), @Darkl-Cariocaa (Agree on everything), @Casper, @Sans23455, @AnAverageUsername2, @Fastestthingalive06
Neutral: @Soulofcinder (Agree with 54)
Disagree: @CloverDrragon (Doesn't agree on 4-D stuff), @Arceusxx (Doesn't agree on Kiryu Proposal), @SunDaGamer2 (Agree on everything except for Kiryu Proposal + 4-D stuff)

Thoughts?

 

[Oiguana2701]

Fully agree with this.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Is Low 7-B an outlier? Even if it is, I think "At least X, likely Low 7-B" is fine.

Regarding canonocity: these are all wiki links. Not saying they can't be true, but I'd rather something official to offer as evidence.

The 4-C thing is the same criteria as the Low 7-B thing. Without seeing explicitly how it's done, I figure it's safer.

Type 8 might even be a low-ball given that it talks about extradimensionality. Should be fine.

The simple statement of higher dimensional stuff isn't enough for Tier 2 potency.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Is Low 7-B an outlier? Even if it is, I think "At least X, likely Low 7-B" is fine.

Regarding canonocity: these are all wiki links. Not saying they can't be true, but I'd rather something official to offer as evidence.

The 4-C thing is the same criteria as the Low 7-B thing. Without seeing explicitly how it's done, I figure it's safer.

Type 8 might even be a low-ball given that it talks about extradimensionality. Should be fine.

The simple statement of higher dimensional stuff isn't enough for Tier 2 potency.

No, it is not an outlier. This is the profile in any case.

Not all the links posted are Wiki links tho, some are scans of the guidebooks. Also, there is the fact that Wikizilla is a trustworthy source, especially because they reference all their info. But also it provides scans, like this one I invite you to analyze about the Kiryu Saga timeline, which backs up what the wiki is saying.

It might be referring to Godzilla Earth's special attack that can destroy a planet-buster asteroid.

Ok.

Not even creating a 4th-dimensional space is considered enough proof for a Tier 2 potency? Even a small 4th-dimensional space should be qualitatively superior to any 3rd-dimensional space, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

As the Low 7-B isn't from the breath, I'd still go "At least 8-C, likely Low 7-B" until some filler is found.

Many fan wikis are extremely reliable, I use Forgotten Realms all the time and they source the shit out of their pages- without them, D&D wouldn't be nearly as well-researched as it is. In spite of this, they are still more than fallible- I wouldn't take a wiki as a legitimate source. Rather, you should probably go through the sources they cite.

...Maybe?

As far as I'm aware, no- you would need to prove this is infinite. You may want to get someone else more used to the nuances of dimenshunal tiering, since I tend to actively avoid shit trying to add it (and thus discuss it sparingly).

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I personally think Low 7-B is fine. As is the Tier 4 and type 8. But unsure about 4-D net.

 

[CloverDragon03]

As far as I'm aware, no- you would need to prove this is infinite. You may want to get someone else more used to the nuances of dimenshunal tiering, since I tend to actively avoid shit trying to add it (and thus discuss it sparingly).

Just as an addendum for this, it doesn't need to be infinite in size, but it does need to at least be universal in size. That said, we pretty much arrive at the same conclusion that if a planet was turned 4-D, that would not be Low 2-C, since the range is not sufficient

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

As the Low 7-B isn't from the breath, I'd still go "At least 8-C, likely Low 7-B" until some filler is found.

Many fan wikis are extremely reliable, I use Forgotten Realms all the time and they source the shit out of their pages- without them, D&D wouldn't be nearly as well-researched as it is. In spite of this, they are still more than fallible- I wouldn't take a wiki as a legitimate source. Rather, you should probably go through the sources they cite.

...Maybe?

As far as I'm aware, no- you would need to prove this is infinite. You may want to get someone else more used to the nuances of dimenshunal tiering, since I tend to actively avoid shit trying to add it (and thus discuss it sparingly).

This is the Kiryu Saga Timeline, Ghidorah arrived in 1999, which is an obvious reference to ''Destroy All Monsters''. This would explain the canonicity of all non-Showa Godzilla-based Showa-era films. Showa Ghidorah that existed in this timeline ''The Kiryu Saga'' as a branch of the Showa era, the Ghidorahs in the Showa era are born from an exploding planet.

 

[Arceus0x]

Will reply later but for now I do disagree with Kiryu saga scaling to Showa

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Even if it is, I think "At least X, likely Low 7-B" is fine.

I can agree with this

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I can agree with this

Thanks for coming! What about the Kiryu Saga stuff?

 

[Dark-Carioca]

The rest seem fine, either straight up as those tiers or as "X tier, likely X tier"

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

The rest seem fine, either straight up as those tiers or as "X tier, likely X tier"

Thank you!

 

[Gasper]

Agree with everything. I personally wanted to make CRT for Godzilla Earth statment but you beat me to it.

 

[Sans2345]

This seems fine to me, i agree with all of this.

 

[Damage3245]

For the record please use proper titles for revision threads. You need to at least specify what verse it is for in the title.

 

[Arceus0x]

All credits go to TheDreadDormammu for finding all these scans and to Goji-Chronic for some of his dialogues.

Hello, this will be simple.

Original Godzilla

Goji54 is stated to be able to destroy mountains with his blows. This means Goji54's physical stats will be upgraded to At least Small City level by using the minimum for destroying a small mountain.

What guide is this from? When was it released?

Kiryu Saga

The Kiryu Saga is a branch of the original 1954 film. But also seems to be a branch of the Showa era as well. Because the Kiryu Saga chose to canonize some Showa-era films in this continuity. When looking into the guidebooks Anguirus, Gigan, Kumonga as well as the King of Terror himself, all existed in the Kiryu Saga. All this was explained in this canon book of events within the Kiryu Saga. And if you think this is not enough to prove this is a branch of the Showa-era, the monsters appeared when their films came up. Kumonga arrived in 1967, Gigan and Anguirus in 1972, and Ghidorah arrived in 1999, which is an obvious reference to ''Destroy All Monsters''. This would explain the canonicity of all non-Showa Godzilla-based Showa-era films. As I explained there is a Showa Ghidorah that existed in this timeline ''The Kiryu Saga'' as a branch of the Showa era, the Ghidorahs in the Showa era are born from an exploding planet. Godzilla upscales from this as he was stated to be the strongest monster in history and the monster among monsters. As we know Godzilla beat up the Second Generation Mothra, that is an evolved version of the First Gen Mothra that killed Showa Ghidorah. Now talking about Kiryu, he was stated to be an improved version during Tokyo SOS. Godzilla during Tokyo SOS was stated to be stronger than in the previous film. That is At least Planet level for the Kiryu Saga...

While I get your point, this whole thing feels sus. Kiryu saga peaked at High 6-A so 5-B isn't exactly a big jump, but at the same time the planet level statements never happened in this continuity. Just because it is a branch of showa doesn't mean the showa era monsters are going to be as strong as their versions of this branch since power varied a lot in that era.
Then there's the fact that this doesn't actually prove that this is canon to showa. Just because they appeared at the same time doesn't mean it isn't just a decision made by the author to be consistent with previous portrayals or, you know, it was just a reference. If there's no statement that its canon to showa or at least part of the showa continuity, then there shouldn't be any scaling involved at all.
There's also the issue of character - Godzilla is a neutral/good character in the showa series which would make this film unfit for the character as in this Godzilla is the antagonist and also clearly shows 0 traits that the showa version has.
Kiryu being the first MG in the series also contradicts Showa connections.
Finally I also take issue with using a wiki as a source.

Godzilla Earth

This is a synopsis from the Back of the novelization for the second prequel Earth novel. According it Godzilla Earth is strong enough to destroy Stars. Which is Star level.

Looks like flowery language honestly. Can I get a proper image of the japanese text so I can dissect it? The text is too small to be recognized by image translation.

Void Ghidorah

He was stated to be Infinite in size by guides. Which is Large Size Type 8.

just make it a likely ability since it says "seemingly infinite"

Dorola

There is a kaiju in the Zone Fighter rooster called Dorola or Dorora. Well according to various sources, it is called to be a Fourth-Dimensional Terror Beast, not enough that it can use a technique called Fourth-Dimensional Gas, in a few words it spits out a Four-Dimensional Net from its front mouth. The red mist transformed into a mysterious light, and surprisingly, the earth itself was transformed into the 4th dimension. According to Garogas, their technology is powerful enough to create Fourth Dimensional Spaces. Yes, we are talking about those Garogas, who can create Star Busting Weapons. So, I propose to upgrade the Zone Fighter Kaiju up to Tier Universe level+.

As Bambu said, you need to destroy a timeline or a 4-D universe or a 4-D space that is universal in size to be universe level+
At most this is "Higher dimensional manipulation" for the Garogas

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Not sure on what my thoughts could provide here, if nothing at all, but the stuff outside of the 4-D stuff looks obvious if the translations are reliable and the wiki has reliable sources.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

What guide is this from? When was it released?

While I get your point, this whole thing feels sus. Kiryu saga peaked at High 6-A so 5-B isn't exactly a big jump, but at the same time the planet level statements never happened in this continuity. Just because it is a branch of showa doesn't mean the showa era monsters are going to be as strong as their versions of this branch since power varied a lot in that era.
Then there's the fact that this doesn't actually prove that this is canon to showa. Just because they appeared at the same time doesn't mean it isn't just a decision made by the author to be consistent with previous portrayals or, you know, it was just a reference. If there's no statement that its canon to showa or at least part of the showa continuity, then there shouldn't be any scaling involved at all.
There's also the issue of character - Godzilla is a neutral/good character in the showa series which would make this film unfit for the character as in this Godzilla is the antagonist and also clearly shows 0 traits that the showa version has.
Kiryu being the first MG in the series also contradicts Showa connections.
Finally I also take issue with using a wiki as a source.

Looks like flowery language honestly. Can I get a proper image of the japanese text so I can dissect it? The text is too small to be recognized by image translation.

just make it a likely ability since it says "seemingly infinite"

As Bambu said, you need to destroy a timeline or a 4-D universe or a 4-D space that is universal in size to be universe level+
At most this is "Higher dimensional manipulation" for the Garogas

Godzilla Secrets I believe

The guides provide the 5-B stuff via scaling. You will have to prove the power of the Kaiju in the Kiryu timeline, differs a lot from the power of their standalone films. No, I think you get things wrong I never said the Kiryu Saga is canon to the Showa era. Neither I said Kiryu is the first MechaG nor that KiryuGoji is ShowaGoji. I think you misunderstood the whole point.

Sure (This is the best I have)

The "Seemingly" comes from the scan that describes Ghidorah from Godzilla's point of view. But the one which describes Ghidorah as an infinitely long being is this one.

CloverDragon already clarified that to me.

 

[Arceus0x]

Godzilla Secrets I believe

And where can one find this?

The guides provide the 5-B stuff via scaling. You will have to prove the power of the Kaiju in the Kiryu timeline, differs a lot from the power of their standalone films. No, I think you get things wrong I never said the Kiryu Saga is canon to the Showa era. Neither I said Kiryu is the first MechaG nor that KiryuGoji is ShowaGoji. I think you misunderstood the whole point.

Then what IS the point? The whole 5-B argument hinges on Showa scaling despite the fact that the showa elements of the kiryu saga are only a reference to showa at most without further evidence. Him appearing in 1954 is also a non argument since that's where a good chunk of godzillas came from.

Sure (This is the best I have)

Then I'd recommend you run it by a translation member since the star-shattering could be some japanese phraseologism for all i know.

The "Seemingly" comes from the scan that describes Ghidorah from Godzilla's point of view. But the one which describes Ghidorah as an infinitely long being is this one.

CloverDragon already clarified that to me.

Ok I agree then.

 

[SunDaGamer]

I'm fine with the Low 7-B and 4-C proposals
I'm currently agreeing with Arceus arguments against scaling Kiryu Saga to the Showa Era unless there is better evidence for scaling them to each other.
Bambu and Clover have already explained that creating 4-D space on a smaller-than-universe scale doesn't grant you Tier 2 and I agree with them.
King Ghidorah's size is fine, it might actually be Higher-Dimensional Existence too.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

And where can one find this?

Then what IS the point? The whole 5-B argument hinges on Showa scaling despite the fact that the showa elements of the kiryu saga are only a reference to showa at most without further evidence. Him appearing in 1954 is also a non argument since that's where a good chunk of godzillas came from.

Then I'd recommend you run it by a translation member since the star-shattering could be some japanese phraseologism for all i know.

Ok I agree then.

People are selling this book on eBay, but I wouldn't recommend buying it.

The origin of the monsters was kept as canon when Toho decided to turn the movies and lore into part of the Kiryu Saga.

OK, I will look for someone.

 

[Arceus0x]

People are selling this book on eBay, but I wouldn't recommend buying it.

then link it to me and i'll pirate it from somewhere

The origin of the monsters was kept as canon when Toho decided to turn the movies and lore into part of the Kiryu Saga.

Where is that stated? Just appearing at that specific year doesn't mean all the showa lore applies to them as well.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

then link it to me and i'll pirate it from somewhere

Where is that stated? Just appearing at that specific year doesn't mean all the showa lore applies to them as well.

Here, is that one I believe...

I'm not saying we have to apply the whole lore to the Kiryu Saga Kaiju, but at the very least their origin. Which is the most basic thing, tbh.

 

[Arceus0x]

I'm not saying we have to apply the whole lore to the Kiryu Saga Kaiju, but at the very least their origin. Which is the most basic thing, tbh.

which I disagree with because there's no explanation about the events that transpired there and ghidorah in this timeline was never called a planet buster either unless you have proof of that. Heck even his birth is vague since he wasn't born from a planet exploding but from a rock that came after a planet exploded which means that it basically gives no AP.
Just because something is similar doesn't make it the exact same.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

which I disagree with because there's no explanation about the events that transpired there and ghidorah in this timeline was never called a planet buster either unless you have proof of that. Heck even his birth is vague since he wasn't born from a planet exploding but from a rock that came after a planet exploded which means that it basically gives no AP.
Just because something is similar doesn't make it the exact same.

Why do the other Kaiju have a similar origin but Ghidorah doesn't? Sounds illogical.

 

[Arceus0x]

Why can the other Kaiju have a similar origin but Ghidorah doesn't? Sounds illogical.

it doesn't matter that they have a similar origin, if there isn't a statement that these feats exist in this timeline then there's no scaling.

Besides, what origin? Neither Kumonga nor Anguirus nor whoever you mentioned have a written out origin in the evidence you've linked. Literally the only one with any information about their origin here is Mothra who is stated to be an evolution of the original mothra which is already impossible and thus probably meant to be a description of the design origin rather than her actual physical origin.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

it doesn't matter that they have a similar origin, if there isn't a statement that these feats exist in this timeline then there's no scaling.

Besides, what origin? Neither Kumonga nor Anguirus nor whoever you mentioned have a written out origin in the evidence you've linked. Literally the only one with any information about their origin here is Mothra who is stated to be an evolution of the original mothra which is already impossible and thus probably meant to be a description of the design origin rather than her actual physical origin.

As I understand it, if they had a different origin story the guide would have mentioned it.

 

[Oiguana2701]

it doesn't matter that they have a similar origin, if there isn't a statement that these feats exist in this timeline then there's no scaling.

Besides, what origin? Neither Kumonga nor Anguirus nor whoever you mentioned have a written out origin in the evidence you've linked. Literally the only one with any information about their origin here is Mothra who is stated to be an evolution of the original mothra which is already impossible and thus probably meant to be a description of the design origin rather than her actual physical origin.

Why do you assume the origin of Ghidorah is different? Toho respected the origin stories of other monsters, like Gaira, Sanda, Frankenstein, Maguma, Gezora, Ganimes, and Kamoebas. Why will Ghidorah be the exception?

 

[Arceus0x]

As I understand it, if they had a different origin story the guide would have mentioned it.

you'd need to prove they even have a proper origin story then, because so far no proper origin has been mentioned beyond "Ghidorah appeared in 1999"

Why do you assume the origin of Ghidorah is different? Toho respected the origin stories of other monsters, like Gaira, Sanda, Frankenstein, Maguma, Gezora, Ganimes, and Kamoebas. Why will Ghidorah be the exception?

What the heck are you even bringing up here? Ghidorah from the original showa timeline and the one from this branch are not the same and you'd need to prove that they have similar origins, similar ideas behind them ect. There's no evidence that the ghidorah here is showa ghidorah beyond years of appearance and mothra being mentioned to be evolved from the showa version, which in itself is contradictory.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

you'd need to prove they even have a proper origin story then, because so far no proper origin has been mentioned beyond "Ghidorah appeared in 1999"

What the heck are you even bringing up here? Ghidorah from the original showa timeline and the one from this branch are not the same and you'd need to prove that they have similar origins, similar ideas behind them ect. There's no evidence that the ghidorah here is showa ghidorah beyond years of appearance and mothra being mentioned to be evolved from the showa version, which in itself is contradictory.

To insinuate or say that the monsters came out of nowhere just because "yes" is a mistake. Is it so hard to even imagine that they have the same origin? Something is something and it is better than nothing. At least a "Possibly" should be gotten from this?

 

[Arceus0x]

To insinuate or say that the monsters came out of nowhere just because "yes" is a mistake. Is it so hard to even imagine that they have the same origin? Something is something and it is better than nothing. At least a "Possibly" should be gotten from this?

unsure about possibly but like, we simply do not know how they originated here. For all we know the authors of this film series simply didn't account for stuff from older guides about showa but only considered the film content. In my opinion it feels too vague.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

unsure about possibly but like, we simply do not know how they originated here. For all we know the authors of this film series simply didn't account for stuff from older guides about showa but only considered the film content. In my opinion it feels too vague.

Maybe the authors didn't mention it because for them the origin of the kaiju is probably similar to their Showa-era counterpart. There was no need to repeat their origin, that's how I see it, although how I would like to hold that book in my hands.

 

[Arceus0x]

Maybe the authors didn't mention it because for them the origin of the kaiju is probably similar to their Showa-era counterpart. There was no need to repeat their origin, that's how I see it, although how I would like to hold that book in my hands.

I think that since we don't have access to the book and we've at most vague scans of a few moments from it, we should not be using it until we have more information. That's how I see it. Pretty sure we're only allowed to use scans from content that can be accessed anyways.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This is the Kiryu Saga timeline: Ghidorah arrived in 1999, which is an obvious reference to ''Destroy All Monsters''. This would explain the canonicity of all non-Showa Godzilla-based Showa-era films. Showa Ghidorah that existed in this timeline ''The Kiryu Saga'' as a branch of the Showa era, the Ghidorahs in the Showa era are born from an exploding planet. The other Kaiju present in the Kiryu Timeline have their same canon origin intact.

My point is that the King Ghidorah from the "Kiryu Saga" should at very least have his canon origins from his Showa-era counterpart. In a similar way to the other kaiju in that timeline.

Was informed about this in DMs and I think it makes sense to me.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I think that since we don't have access to the book and we've at most vague scans of a few moments from it, we should not be using it until we have more information. That's how I see it. Pretty sure we're only allowed to use scans from content that can be accessed anyways.

I disagree with your comment. Most franchises in this wiki use scans without having the books. That applies to Godzilla, too. What matters is the information in the scans. I said I would like to have the book because I would like to read it just for fun.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Great as always, agree.

 

[Arceus0x]

I disagree with your comment. Most franchises in this wiki use scans without having the books. That applies to Godzilla, too. What matters is the information in the scans. I said I would like to have the book because I would like to read it just for fun.

you don't have to own the book physically you just need it available. If you can't show exactly where you got your scans from then there's nothing to argue since this one quote could be heavily out of context in terms of the whole thing.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

you don't have to own the book physically you just need it available. If you can't show exactly where you got your scans from then there's nothing to argue since this one quote could be heavily out of context in terms of the whole thing.

I got the scans from this book. It is a timeline of the JSDF and AMF's activity before the events of Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla, detailing encounters with monsters not seen in the films themselves, such as Kumonga, Gigan, and King Ghidorah, who appeared in 1999 and fought 1st Gen. Mothra, who killed him.

 

[Arceus0x]

I got the scans from this book. It is a timeline of the JSDF and AMF's activity before the events of Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla, detailing encounters with monsters not seen in the films themselves, such as Kumonga, Gigan, and King Ghidorah, who appeared in 1999 and fought 1st Gen. Mothra, who killed him.

which doesn't matter cause your source is not available to us at all and you're basically relying on a wiki which is not allowed