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Mukuro vs. Hajime

For one, that's not quick enough if we assume it was because of his luck.

For two, why would we assume his luck is the reason their mind was changed? What implies this? Sounds much more like Kyosuke's thought process changed after having to endure bullshit with Naegi.
 
It could be something as simple as Mukuro finding Hajime attractive.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
For one, that's not quick enough if we assume it was because of his luck.

For two, why would we assume his luck is the reason their mind was changed? What implies this?
Click to expand...
The fact that Kyosuke Munakata was determined to kill Makoto and Makoto's luck is design to not let Makoto die.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
So nothing at all beyond speculation is the proof his luck made his mind change.
Click to expand...
> And Makoto's luck is design to not let Makoto die.

It has acted differently many times in the past but it always lead to Makoto's life being spared.
 
A act doesn't suddenly mean it changed Kyosuke's mind. Kyosuke fully believed Makoto dying was for the best because he could be used as a tool, and eben believed the killing game was to kill key Future Foundation members or reach Makoto. It took Makoto outsmarting him and forcing him to actually talk with him, changing his mind, before Kyosuke stopped.

Which has nothing to do with luck. So again, luck has never changed anyone's mind. That Makoto's luck protects him from dying does not prove anything. That's a massive logical jump to think that must have been the vause.
 
Let's just agree to disagree. Let the other people decide who will win and I kinda don't care if Hajime wins or lose tho since votings exist for a reason. As I said before, I vote Hajime FRA
 
> Mukuro finding Hajime attractive

Not happening, her emotions are sealed. And she is basically bloodlusted, so she will go for the seal.

> Changing Mukuro's mind

Again, how does this not fall in mind manip? Because from what I know, forcefully changing someone's mind was mind manip.
 
Ionliosite said:
> Changing Mukuro's mind

Again, how does this not fall in mind manip? Because from what I know, forcefully changing someone's mind was mind manip.
Click to expand...
I guess it would, because that's what happen. And if you say Mukuro resistance to mind manipulation, is it resistance to mind manipulation on a causality level?
 
Ultimate Level: User is lucky to the point where probability means nothing, and reality will change in order for a chance to turn towards their favor. The odds of making bad things happen to the user are impossible, and chance will always either favor the user or disfavor those who oppose the user.

Makoto and Nagito are both called "the Ultimate lucky student" though, this applies to Makoto more than Nagito.
 
Umm... I'm pretty sure that doesn't work that way. They need feats on that level for it to work that way, someone beyond causality with his luck would be Higashikawa Mamoru, I'm pretty sure neither Makoto nor Nagito have feats on that level.
 
What do you mean by feats? It's the source of where luck comes from. Does Mukuro have feats resisting luck?
 
Have they worked on a level in which probability meant nothing and reality was altered by their luck? I want to know if it actually happened, because that sounds pretty hyperbolic/flowery.

Also, why are you scaling Hajime's luck to things from Power Listing wiki instead of what's shown on his own series?
 
Because Hajime has Makoto's luck. Also, you were wondering why I mention causality.
 
Ha. I knew you would be asking that. Probability manipulation doesn't care about AP scaling. The same luck can effect a guy destroying a building to a guy destroying multiple continents and higher up if he doesn't go into causality.

Makoto's luck feats only describe how it works, but what it works on doesn't matter because of causality.
 
When did ask about AP? I didn't mention AP at all. And you still haven't shown such things as Makoto's luck working on a level in which probability means nothing and alters reality. And why do you keep mentioning causality? I'm asking about his luck.
 
We even have a wiki page for those kinds of beings that have a high chance of not being effected by luck but it depends on their typing. Acausality
 
Why are you totally ignoring my questions and bringing irrelevant abilities that neither characters have to the table? You're just derailing the match at this point.
 
Sorry for my attitude. I was in a conversation with someone else who discrediting Makoto's luck because they didn't believe it cause it didn't match what they expected out of it. My bad.
 
Don't worry, everybody makes mistakes.

Although, I would still like to see if that Luck works on the level you're saying, since that's important to the match.
 
ElixirBlue said:
@Buttersamuri Er... let me point out the key differences between the 5th trial and the 1st trial, both times Makoto's luck was actively used.
Click to expand...
This is explaining two of the times Makoto's luck acted. In the first game. There were also other incidence when the luck was activated. But explaining them is a little... complex. Mostly cause its elusive and you mostly notice when Makoto survived situations he should have died in.
 
Ok, so he does have very good luck, but it isn't near the level in which probability means nothing and alters reality.
 
Ionliosite said:
Don't worry, everybody makes mistakes.

Although, I would still like to see if that Luck works on the level you're saying, since that's important to the match.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you are trying look for. Mukuro has no resists to causality. It's a hax.
 
The counter argument to Makoto's luck effecting Mukuro is like saying Sonic the Hedgehog wouldn't die to Shigaraki's decay quirk, because its only showing to be city level range while Sonic's durability is Planet + level.
 
Makoto's luck is luck, not causality manipulation, he has incredible luck. The counter argument isn't that, the counter argument is that Mukuro always, ALWAYS leads with Sealing so Hajime changing that would be like Hajime's luck making someone to not eat his breakfast, despite the fact that that person always eats breakfast, for that person to die starving.
 
From what i've read throught all this thread, i don't see enough proof of Hajime being able to change Mukuro's mind instantanously with his luck. all the case involved in the thread was throught discussions and adventures, without that, he never changed instantanously people's mind indirectly, he always need "contact". His luck is a good abilities, but not enough to changes peoples's mind instantanously.

The fact that Mukuro is always in a bloodlusted state and that she always start to seal her opponent with her Conceptual Sealing make this fight pretty straightforward.

I vote Mukuro for being able to seal his opponent in a gesture when Hajime's move make more times and his luck not being able to chnage instantanously people's mind.
 
As far as I am aware, it just can't change people's minds period. The best attempt I've seen is changing Kyosuke's mind, which would scale to Hajime through Makoto's luck. But Makoto's luck had nothing to do with it, Kyosuke's twisted ideology being changed after Makoto forces him to talk with him or die is what changes his mind. He fully believed Makoto had fallen into despair and was the key for Despair to advance their agenda, so Makoto knocks some sense into him. I really hope no one tries to tell me this is his luck ******* up Kyosuke's mind or something.

But yeh, my vote is for Mukuro.
 
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