Equal Stats
Standard Battle Assumptions
Standard Battle Assumptions
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Mukuro Rokudo (KHR) vs Itachi Uchiha (Naruto)
- Thread starter Tetsuya1029
- Start date
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Hmmm
Can I assume all stats but hax are equal ?
If so there's only a few methods of Mukuro winning. Starting off he has at least a 8 layered illusion hax (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), that's more layers than Tsukuyomi.
There's the fact Mukuro's illusions can kill of the opponent thinks they are real(this without mist flames)
With mist flames he can create real illusions that is to say, illusions of other people stop being just illusions and have flesh and blood.
He can also posses people through his six-paths hax. Though he has to touch them with his trident or shoot himself with his forbidden bullet(from what I remember).
Can I assume all stats but hax are equal ?
If so there's only a few methods of Mukuro winning. Starting off he has at least a 8 layered illusion hax (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), that's more layers than Tsukuyomi.
There's the fact Mukuro's illusions can kill of the opponent thinks they are real(this without mist flames)
With mist flames he can create real illusions that is to say, illusions of other people stop being just illusions and have flesh and blood.
He can also posses people through his six-paths hax. Though he has to touch them with his trident or shoot himself with his forbidden bullet(from what I remember).
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Oh, and Mukuro can copy the abilities of those he has possessed also
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To clarify, this is while he is possessing them
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- Thread starter
- #5
no. Assume standard battle assumptions. But I personally do scale Mukuro higher than Itachi anyways
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Correction, late game Mukuro has actually 11 layers of illusion hax
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Itachi can destroy minds, not just control it
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...
Seeing as Mukuro both resists that and out-layers his illusions, I don't see how that is a problem.
Edit: for Itachi's illusion to destroy the mind he has to torture them, and since Mukuro out-layers Itachi's illusions he can just torture Itachi by taking over his(Itachi's) illusion world.
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Mukuro's main win-con is illusions which is a pretty solid one. Not much Itachi can do against it, unless new info is given, this looks like a win for Mukuro.
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He can't just use resistance to illusions to resist getting his mind erased
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Well seeing as his(Itachi) mind erasure works through illusions... Yes, he can.
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He can use illusions to do that, but how it works is he implants a mental world into one's mind and shatters it along with their mind. Resisting illusions won't mean you resist your mind being shattered
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This legitimately states it's a Genjutsu.
And yes, Mukuro can resist this, not only that he can flip this Genjutsu on Itachi.
It breaks the mind through Genjutsu aka illusions. Which is what I stated previously.
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Furthermore to support what I said, your scan states this:
"common sense is completely irrelevant and opposing the caster is impossible. Somebody caught into the Tsukuyomi find themselves into a strange world of infinity, their fate entirely lying inside the caster’s hands. Some time, they will undergo the torments of Hell, and some other time, they will be repeatedly shown a horrendous, hellish picture of agony and mayhem, with no idea of when either of those will end. As a result, the poor prisoner can only wait until the collapse of their psyches…!! Even a body made of iron or the speed of light are powerless before this jutsu, which is the reason why it is feared as the most powerful."
Which translates to:
"The Tsukuyomi implants an illusionary world inside the person's minds and tortures them until their mind breaks"
This means it's a mental attack through illusion, which not only does Mukuro have a resistance of, but he can counterattack with.
Edit: "Since attacks in the spiritual realm have no power to physically wound or kill, it bestows an unfathomable amount of mental damage."
This is a resistance Mukuro has.
"common sense is completely irrelevant and opposing the caster is impossible. Somebody caught into the Tsukuyomi find themselves into a strange world of infinity, their fate entirely lying inside the caster’s hands. Some time, they will undergo the torments of Hell, and some other time, they will be repeatedly shown a horrendous, hellish picture of agony and mayhem, with no idea of when either of those will end. As a result, the poor prisoner can only wait until the collapse of their psyches…!! Even a body made of iron or the speed of light are powerless before this jutsu, which is the reason why it is feared as the most powerful."
Which translates to:
"The Tsukuyomi implants an illusionary world inside the person's minds and tortures them until their mind breaks"
This means it's a mental attack through illusion, which not only does Mukuro have a resistance of, but he can counterattack with.
Edit: "Since attacks in the spiritual realm have no power to physically wound or kill, it bestows an unfathomable amount of mental damage."
This is a resistance Mukuro has.
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Its not that looking at the illusion is what shatters the mind, so even if he can resist the illusion or see through it, the mental world is still there, and his mind is shattered. Itachi has the ability to shatter one's mind without torturing them with the illusion, as he did it to izumi. The only illusions she saw weren't the cause of her mind being destroyed, since its not torture
Can you show me how Mukuro resists mental damage
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Here's some of the stuff.
The pain Mukuro/Chrome/Daemon feels should be comparable to one another since they all fight with illusions.
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Someone needs to provided the layers with actual scans.
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This is still mental damage.
Also this is Itachi speeding up her mind so that she dies of old age -- this is not him shattering her mind at all, the feat you're showing doesn't match what you are saying.
Also, this is still a mental attack which Mukuro still resists.
Tsukuyomi has 7 layers of illusion -- which is what is being used to attack here -- Mukuro has 11 layers of mental defense.
This is not affecting him.
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I will need some time.
I have most of the scans needed, I just need to put them in order kek, and find the missing ones
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That's fine, that all the tike you need.
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Mukuro(Rainbow Curse arc) > Daemon > Viper > Mukuro (Inheritance Ceremony) > Future Mukuro > Fran(Tricks the Vindice) > Two Illusionists from Future Arc > Chrome (Beginning of Future Arc) > Mukuro Varia Arc > Viper(Varia Arc) > Chrome (Varia Arc) > Tsuna with Vongola Intuition (Kokuyo land) > Mukuro (Kokuyo Land) > Fodder Illusionists.
Explenations
Mukuro Kokuyo's illusions land loses to Tsuna's Hyper intuition. He should be above Fodder Illusionists(which are capable of affecting a whole city with their illusions).
Viper loses to Mukuro -- however, he was capable of tricking Tsuna's passive HI and also tricked his fellow Arcobaleno.
Fran has a hell sign ring, he is also being tutored by Mukuro and should scale above Fran, not to mention he possesses one of the biggest Illusion feats in the KHR universe which is tricking the Vindice
Future Mukuro should be stronger than the two illusionists from Future Arc, especially with Devil Lens.
Mukuro(Inheritance Ceremony) should scale above that due to his Vongola Gear.
Daemon scales above of him in terms of illusion as he managed to overtake Mukuro's illusionary world.
Mukuro (Rainbow Curse arc) should scale even above Daemon as he not only gains a power boost.
Viper should be around Daemon's level of power with his powers unlocked.
I'll add the other ones later : p
Explenations
Mukuro Kokuyo's illusions land loses to Tsuna's Hyper intuition. He should be above Fodder Illusionists(which are capable of affecting a whole city with their illusions).
Viper loses to Mukuro -- however, he was capable of tricking Tsuna's passive HI and also tricked his fellow Arcobaleno.
Fran has a hell sign ring, he is also being tutored by Mukuro and should scale above Fran, not to mention he possesses one of the biggest Illusion feats in the KHR universe which is tricking the Vindice
Future Mukuro should be stronger than the two illusionists from Future Arc, especially with Devil Lens.
Mukuro(Inheritance Ceremony) should scale above that due to his Vongola Gear.
Daemon scales above of him in terms of illusion as he managed to overtake Mukuro's illusionary world.
Mukuro (Rainbow Curse arc) should scale even above Daemon as he not only gains a power boost.
Viper should be around Daemon's level of power with his powers unlocked.
I'll add the other ones later : p
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I dont think you understand how layers work. I don't think most of these actually count towards layers.
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This works
This is not a layer feat
Nothing here is a layer feat
Stronger illusion doesn't make more layered illusion
This isn't a layer feat
No layer in this
Stronger illusion doesn't make more layered illusion
Based on nothing
You need more than none with layers
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I don't too well, but I shared this in a questions and several people stated that some of the scans I showed there indicate at least 9 layers and maybe 11 of them
I'll link it when I get back home
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For layers you'll need a character to mind hax someone who resist it which would count as one layer.
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I actually found an even better chain @XDragnoir created:
Normal humans < Fodder Illusionists < Sealed Mammon < Chrome < Chrome with Mist Flames < Genkishi < Hyper Intuition (tho i don't remember how much HI helped Tsuna during his fight with Genkishi) < Torikabuto < Vindice < Daemon < Devil's Lens < Mist Vongola Gear
Normal humans < Fodder Illusionists < Sealed Mammon < Chrome < Chrome with Mist Flames < Genkishi < Hyper Intuition (tho i don't remember how much HI helped Tsuna during his fight with Genkishi) < Torikabuto < Vindice < Daemon < Devil's Lens < Mist Vongola Gear
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So... All scans provided work?
Because that's what's happening in all scans shown...
Mammon beating Tsuna's Hyper intuition along with Reborn's and Colonello is very relevant because all 3 have resistances against mental and illusionary attacks. It going through Tsuna's HI is relevant because Tsuna is capable of distinguishing Illusion from reality with it and going past it is a significant feat worth layering.
Vindice have so strong illusion and mental resistances that only 3 illusionists in the world can trick them, Fran manages to and that's not a layering feat? I'm confused by the contradiction ...
Power of illusions does matter because illusionary power in KHR means it's easier to take another person's illusions. Refer to the folder of illusion stuff I provided.
Vongola Gear is what allows Mukuro to bring Daemon to an illusionary world(even with Daemons resistances) so it is relevant here.
According to you overtaking someone with resistance is what adds Layers, well this is a layer then due to both parties having insanely high layered resistances.
Illusions in KHR are based on how strong you are of an illusionists, stronger illusionists have stronger illusions and stronger illusions are capable of more easily going through layers.
This is extremely important because from one arc to the other Tsuna's HI was overtaken(and his HI improves every arc)
Vipers power is increased in curse arc because it's stated without the arcobaleno curse his power is increased, including illusions(and all characters he instantly affected have high resistances, Xanxus has extremely strong intuition and so does Fong)
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Also, I'm gonna need some layering evidence for Itachi as well.
Edit:As an added feat, I think a layered could be placed putting "Machinery" or AI in it, since in KHR the illusions are capable of fooling even machines if strong enough.
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Rez
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In khr verse it does
Here is viper using his illusions on Chrome:
Here is Mukuro who is an stronger illusionist than both chrome and viper being absolutely unaffected by the same thing:
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