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I think it's lame, I think the Legends version where it was just raw training which gradually wielded extraordinary results over 1,000 years was cooler.
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More Star Wars Revisions (JUST JANGO FETT and LIGHTSABER STUFF LEFT TO DISCUSS)
- Thread starter Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
- Start date
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that was a specific technique that only the banite sith know, and andeddu, and somehow, vitiate. in canon, they make it seem like its just a thing that the sith do
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Eh I'm not too sure which I prefer (I feel we need the new way fleshed out more before I can say which is better)
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No need to show disrespect to arguments you didn't even read, which is evident as you point out stuff I repeated and cared to explain over and over again why they don't matter at all. I will present the downgrade in the future, if you still don't have the time to read and understand what I say there then I hope you don't just throw disagreement anyway.Matthew Schroeder said:
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There is nothing to disagree, and I mean no disrespect. There is simply no evidence.
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@Matt
> The novel presents not one shred of evidence to support your theory that Palpatine became magically stronger in The Rise of Skywalker.
Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.
Palpatine's feat is literally hundreds of thousands of times stronger than anything he has shown before.
We dont need a literal quote of "Your stronger than before" to come to that conclusion
> The novel presents not one shred of evidence to support your theory that Palpatine became magically stronger in The Rise of Skywalker.
Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.
Palpatine's feat is literally hundreds of thousands of times stronger than anything he has shown before.
We dont need a literal quote of "Your stronger than before" to come to that conclusion
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I mean we kinda do
Especially when there are several quotes claiming he's much weaker then before and he himself outright says he needs the Dyad to return to full power
Especially when there are several quotes claiming he's much weaker then before and he himself outright says he needs the Dyad to return to full power
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My point is that there needed to be no evidence for Palpatine becoming stronger for that to be the most likely case, there cannot be "nothing to disagree". Unless all my arguments aren't even arguments or something on those lines, which I do take as disrespect.
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So you are arguing from incredulity.
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> Especially when there are several quotes claiming he's much weaker then before
Context is Pre Dyad Absorption.
Context is Pre Dyad Absorption.
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Palpatine: Is the strongest Sith Lord of all time.
People: Okay.
Palpatine: Performs a feat stronger than anything done by any other Jedi or Sith in the franchise:
People: WOT
People: Okay.
Palpatine: Performs a feat stronger than anything done by any other Jedi or Sith in the franchise:
People: WOT
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@Shadow I mention the Dyad, he needed it by his own word to bring him back to his prime
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Thread:4001398#318Matthew Schroeder said:
Without that feat he is still the strongest Sith Lord of all time. This point you make legit doesn't matter, it's not that it matters little or works as context for some minor thing, it doesn't matter period, it's just bias for the character.Matthew Schroeder said:
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Personally, I find the new interpretation to be better. It explains how a single Sith Lord could cause such an imbalance in the Force - said Sith also contains the accumulated spirits of all past Sith for a thousand years; it gives deeper significance to the Rule of Two, and it explains why Palpatine was so set on attaining an apprentice more powerful than himself in the films, and adds a new layer to his goading Luke to strike him down.Matthew Schroeder said:
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- Thread starter
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A YouTuber claimed that the novel said Palpatine was weaker even post-dryad, could you find such a quote.Matthew Schroeder said:
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more like, find out everything about it lol not just that
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@Spino
I'd that youtubee Star Wars Theory by any chance?
I'd that youtubee Star Wars Theory by any chance?
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- Thread starter
- #419
Nah it's the other one, wave or something
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AH ok lol
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Hello thier I am back
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I really am sorry man if. I chaged it back
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What Lightsabre stuff the force powers for what date
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Will make a separate post about Palpatine, gathering all the sources and what not.
Including WOG that tells us Episode 9 Palpatine>ROTS Palpatine.
Including WOG that tells us Episode 9 Palpatine>ROTS Palpatine.
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- #426
Oh there's WoG?
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- Thread starter
- #427
If TROS Palpatine did grow stronger then ROTS Palpatine, Yoda and Windu would be at least 7-A by upscaling from Vader, unless there's a better feat.
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They could still be the same tier as Palpatine. You can be stronger without being so much so that you jump several tiers. We never really saw Palpatine's full destructive power calculated.Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
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I'm not sure what are you trying to say.
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I'm saying he could be stronger without being 3 tiers higher.
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- #431
Sure.
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- #432
Anyway would it be fine if I downgrade the 6-B shields to High 6-C? It was agreed in the multiplier thread it should be downgraded and I doubt there's going to be any objections.
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Btw actually FTL Jango Fett might work, since we might make 3 keys for Mace Windu which would make his AOTC key FTL, which is consistent with Jango Fett vs Obi-Wan.
Although I think Hellbeast1 has a point that it's a bit cherrypicking to only scale Jango Fett to the Jedi's speed but not their strength in literally the same scene.
Although I think Hellbeast1 has a point that it's a bit cherrypicking to only scale Jango Fett to the Jedi's speed but not their strength in literally the same scene.
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He's obviously not physically as fast or strong as them, but he does some show sort of comparable reactions. Though, a lot of those Jedi hold back, and it's common PIS. As Hellbeast said, it would be like if Batman had Massively FTL+ combat speed but doesn't scale anywhere else.
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I mean, that could give another reason to scale the Jedi to the Mandalorians' physicals. Then it's not quite cherrypicking anymore.Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
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Pre Visla should be somewhat comparable to Jango Fett, yet he gave Maul a decent fight . Would this challenge the Jango vs Obi-Wan fight being an outlier?
I gathered the feat-relevant statements and along with info not revealed in the film here . For feats, basicly:
The Emperor gasped. Stared at his hands, which had begun knitting themselves back together, bones regrowing, pale flesh closing over them. "The life-force of your bond," he said, his voice tinged with wonder. "A dyad in the Force!"
His gleeful triumphant thoughts washed over Rey, as she struggled against his grip, unable to move. He had won. At last. All those years, all that searching. He'd tried to create a dyad with Anakin, as his master had tried to create one with him. The Rule of Two, a Master always in desperate search of a yet more powerful apprentice, was a pale imitation, an unworthy but necessary successor to the older, purer doctrine of the Dyad.
"Unseen for generations," he crowed. "And now the power of two restores the one true Emperor!"
He raised his perfect, healed hands, and called on all the dark power of the Force and the Sith who had come before him, and pulled their life from their very bodies. It poured from them like a river of light, leaving them weaker and weaker.
The Emperor laughed as his body strengthened, became whole. The milky film faded from his eyes, revealing golden irises around obsidian pupils.
...
Rey and Ben lay collapsed on the floor as Emperor Palpatine released himself from the Ommin harness and drifted down. He stood straight and strong now. Invincible.
The Emperor raised his voice to the throng. "Look what you have made," he said. Their chanted response was thunderous, and he stood, hands slightly raised, as if absorbing their worship as power.
...
"Do not fear their feeble attack, my faithful!" the Emperor said, Ben already forgotten. His lips spread apart into a nightmarish grin, and he lifted his face to Exegol's sky. "Nothing will stop the return of the Sith!"
He raised his hands as though reaching toward the battle overhead. Even through her haze of weakness and exhaustion, Rey could sense him draw on the Force. The Emperor's power was staggering now. No, their power. Hers and Ben's.
Tears streamed down her face as he used their stolen power to create a conduit of Force lightning. Writhing, crooked tendrils of light shot from his fingers, coalesced into a thick stream of light that burst into the sky, flooding the Resistance ships. They sparked helplessly against the onslaught, tilting on their axis.
...
The Emperor's power was beautiful to behold, reaching ever higher, spreading out like a flower of light. In a way, she and Ben had made that. But the Emperor was using it for unspeakable evil. And now she was helpless. Dying.
...
His attack intensified. "You are nothing!" he yelled. "A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me. I am all the Sith!"
So we have:
I gathered the feat-relevant statements and along with info not revealed in the film here . For feats, basicly:
- Self-Levitation through the Force is a skill unique to Rey and Leia only. So we can give Rey Flight
- The number of Xyston-class Star Destroyer is tens of thousands (not an exageration). The number of the fleet ships Lango gathered is at one hundred thousands.
- Palpatine did not lift the Star Destroyers, he was only showing Kylo a vision.
- Palpatine was amped after absorbing the life force of Rey and Ben. (implying a downgrade)
The Emperor gasped. Stared at his hands, which had begun knitting themselves back together, bones regrowing, pale flesh closing over them. "The life-force of your bond," he said, his voice tinged with wonder. "A dyad in the Force!"
His gleeful triumphant thoughts washed over Rey, as she struggled against his grip, unable to move. He had won. At last. All those years, all that searching. He'd tried to create a dyad with Anakin, as his master had tried to create one with him. The Rule of Two, a Master always in desperate search of a yet more powerful apprentice, was a pale imitation, an unworthy but necessary successor to the older, purer doctrine of the Dyad.
"Unseen for generations," he crowed. "And now the power of two restores the one true Emperor!"
He raised his perfect, healed hands, and called on all the dark power of the Force and the Sith who had come before him, and pulled their life from their very bodies. It poured from them like a river of light, leaving them weaker and weaker.
The Emperor laughed as his body strengthened, became whole. The milky film faded from his eyes, revealing golden irises around obsidian pupils.
...
Rey and Ben lay collapsed on the floor as Emperor Palpatine released himself from the Ommin harness and drifted down. He stood straight and strong now. Invincible.
The Emperor raised his voice to the throng. "Look what you have made," he said. Their chanted response was thunderous, and he stood, hands slightly raised, as if absorbing their worship as power.
...
"Do not fear their feeble attack, my faithful!" the Emperor said, Ben already forgotten. His lips spread apart into a nightmarish grin, and he lifted his face to Exegol's sky. "Nothing will stop the return of the Sith!"
He raised his hands as though reaching toward the battle overhead. Even through her haze of weakness and exhaustion, Rey could sense him draw on the Force. The Emperor's power was staggering now. No, their power. Hers and Ben's.
Tears streamed down her face as he used their stolen power to create a conduit of Force lightning. Writhing, crooked tendrils of light shot from his fingers, coalesced into a thick stream of light that burst into the sky, flooding the Resistance ships. They sparked helplessly against the onslaught, tilting on their axis.
...
The Emperor's power was beautiful to behold, reaching ever higher, spreading out like a flower of light. In a way, she and Ben had made that. But the Emperor was using it for unspeakable evil. And now she was helpless. Dying.
...
His attack intensified. "You are nothing!" he yelled. "A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me. I am all the Sith!"
So we have:
- 1- The Force Dyad, which is the potential Power both Ben and Rey can create. Palpatine was craving it and attempted to create a Force Dyad with Plagueis and Anakin, and he finally got it by stealing it from Rey and Ben.
- 2- [Unconfirmed if he had this power 50 years ago during the Prequels, if he did it would be a retcon as this was never previously mentioned] The power of all the Sith before him in a non-metaphorical way. It should be similar to Rey being powered.
- 3- [Unconfirmed but implied] The chanting of the Sith Eternal cultists was doing during the soul transfer ritual and after he absorbed the life force of Rey and Ben.
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- Thread starter
- #437
I mean you can probably argue Jango Fett's armour is High 7-C for tanking Obi-Wan's blows? Cuz in close combat Obi-Wan was having the upper hand and Jango Fett didn't really cause any damage except the headbutt which you can argue Obi-Wan was simply caught off balance and slipped.
I need to watch the fight again.
I need to watch the fight again.
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- Thread starter
- #439
The novelization says he had to use Force strength to pull back Jango Fett when he was trying to drag him away.
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