More Star Wars Revisions (JUST JANGO FETT and LIGHTSABER STUFF LEFT TO DISCUSS)

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

What's your suggestion on this then? Should their speed scale?

 

[Catalyst75]

What's your suggestion on this then? Should their speed scale?

Perhaps reconsider how scaling with Star Wars is handled? In my opinion, there's arguably too big a discrepancy between what the "continuity canon" (everything Legends) says happens, and what happens on screen in the films proper.

 

[ByAsura]

We've currently got a discussion thread about that on my message wall if you want to chime in. For now, let's avoid bringing it up on this thread.

@Spino I think the speed is fine. Force-enhanced strength is also quite inconsistent and these Jedi could at least deflect blaster bolts.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

So Relativistic+ or FTL would be more suitable?

 

[ByAsura]

Yes, imo.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Anyway would it be fine if I downgrade the 6-B shields to High 6-C? It was agreed in the multiplier thread it should be downgraded and I doubt there's going to be any objections.

I shall apply this, since it was already agreed in the multiplier thread that multipliers like this cannot be used.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Good news

we can now scale the Knights of Ren Properly.

will Include this in my Kylo CRT.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Ok excellent.

So just Jango Fett and lightsaber stuff left now, as well as maybe downgrading the MFTL+s.

 

[LordTracer]

The only people that should keep MFTL+ combat speed (IMO) are Luke Skywalker (Legends) (fourth key), Darth Krayt (second key), Abeloth and The Ones. As well as Darth Sidious and Vitiate for obvious reasons.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Why should Darth Sidious and Vitiate necessarily scale to Force spirit speed?

 

[LordTracer]

Well, their combat speed shouldn't scale. Reaction speed, yes.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

How so? Did they react to stuff mid-flight?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Also should Canon Yoda have Lightning Manipulation as a Force ghost?

 

[LordTracer]

I don't think so, but logically shouldn't someone's flight speed scale to their reaction speed? (The Speed page says this as well).

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Flight speed only scales to reactions when you react to stuff mid-flight. We have no evidence Sidious and Vitiate had to manoeuvre mid-flight. They could have just flew in a straight line until their destination (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[LordTracer]

Mm, I guess they should only have MFTL+ flight speed then. The other guys I listed should keep MFTL+ combat and reactions though.

Also yeah, canon Yoda should have Electricity Manipulation.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

U guys do know that there is a force ability that lets spirits teleport right? It's can be used so long as the spirit knows where they are going personally

 

[Catalyst75]

Flight speed only scales to reactions when you react to stuff mid-flight. We have no evidence Sidious and Vitiate had to manoeuvre mid-flight. They could have just flew in a straight line until their destination (correct me if I'm wrong).

Where does flight even come from? If it has to do with their disembodied spirits, I'd have to question the validity of applying that to their physical speeds.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I agree

There's too much going against it scaling to their speed

 

[Hellbeast1]

Good news
we can now scale the Knights of Ren Properly.

will Include this in my Kylo CRT.

Ooh where do they scale

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Their scaling is a bit weird, since Kylo can apparently only beat 2-3 of them at the same time when they are serious, but they are only able to slightly use the Force in small ways.

The robed figures had not bothered Ben at all when he was here last, but this time they launched themselves at him with fury. He blasted them easily, one shot for every kill. Not long ago, he would have taken pleasure in this, but now he had only one consuming desire: Help Rey.
He reached the end of the Sith monoliths and rounded a corner. Familiar figures manifested in the flashing dark. First Vicrul and his scythe. Then Kiruk and his plasma blaster. And suddenly all six were arrayed before him. His Knights.

For the briefest moment, Ben actually thought they'd come to help.

But hate rolled off them in waves like fetid air. The Knights of Ren had never been his. They had belonged to the Emperor all along.

A final betrayal.

Snoke had been nothing more than a pawn. The Emperor had whispered poison to Ben his whole life. Now even the Knights, those whom he thought his faithful brothers, were raising their weapons for the kill.

They surrounded him slowly, like predators stalking their prey. He could take two or three at a time, but these were his very own. He'd trained with them. They could even touch the Force in a small way. He didn't stand a chance against all of them at once, not armed with just a blaster.

Maybe it had been premature to throw his lightsaber into the sea.

An image lit up his mind, another lightsaber, flashing blue. It was a message from Rey.

...

Ben blasted one attacker, thrusted away another with the Force, spun to face a third…

…as something cracked the back of his skull, sending him to his knees.

Another blow crushed his abdomen, robbing him of air, and he bent over gasping.

The Knights, in their supreme arrogance, backed away, allowed Ben to gain his feet. He seemed defenseless to them. They must have never really respected him, or even his abilities, to give him ground now.

Ben sucked in air as they circled for another attack.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Ah so they'd be Likely High 7-C?

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

U guys do know that there is a force ability that lets spirits teleport right? It's can be used so long as the spirit knows where they are going personally

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[ByAsura]

Flight speed only scales to reactions when you react to stuff mid-flight. We have no evidence Sidious and Vitiate had to manoeuvre mid-flight. They could have just flew in a straight line until their destination (correct me if I'm wrong).

Vitiate may have, but Palpatine went through a portal. It still shouldn't scale to anything, though.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Palpatine upscales from Vitiate anyway.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

Dude, palpatine and vitiate are not that close in power lol he really wouldn't scale to anything ROTS has

 

[ByAsura]

I know, I'm saying it should scale because he's a disembodied force-spirit. Now, I'll gather some speed feats.

 

[ByAsura]

I couldn't find many feats, unfortunately, but Mace should at least be FTL.

In Children of the Force, Mace Windu easily outsped a blaster bolt, which move at light-speed in Legends. This story takes place sometime before 33 BBY, as Depa was still a Padawa, but after 44 BBY because Windu was a Jedi Master.

While Mace was using Vaapad, Jedi Anakin couldn't see him or Palpatine, having to feel them in the force. Mace's blade also appears to Anakin as a sphere of purple fire that slashed in dozens of directions at once.

• Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire with in which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once. The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine? Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—But he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.

For supporting evidence, Shaak Ti, who's decently powerful by Clone Wars-era Jedi Master standards but nowhere near Windu, can keep up with and blitz MagnaGuards.

• "Three MagnaGuards, each with a double-ended weapon that generated an energy field impervious to lightsabers, each with reflexes that operated near lightspeed". - ROTS Novelization

According to the ROTS novel, captial ships exchange fire at near light-speed.

• The vast semisphere of the view wall bloomed with battle. Sophisticated sensor algorithms compressed the combat that sprawled throughout the galactic capital's orbit to a view the naked eye could enjoy: cruisers hundreds of kilometers apart, exchanging fire at near lightspeed, appeared to be practically hull-to-hull, joined by pulsing cables of flame.

From what I remember, there's at least a couple instances of people deflecting captial ship fire.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

So "At least FTL" for Windu, Yoda and Sidious?

 

[ByAsura]

Maybe just '''FTL'''. Slower people in this range can somewhat keep up with them.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

i actually dont know what to think about that sidious/anakin/windu scene. he is described as being faster than both yoda and windu, so why tf would they move too fast for him to even see? was he actively trying to see them (as in, was he casual), or are they actually too fast for him? this makes no sense dude. even by feats, he is faster than yoda lol (moving too fast for ROTS Dooku is proves that he is faster than Yoda, who couldnt do the same to a slower Dooku in AOTC)..

 

[ByAsura]

Maybe it's their combat speed. Yoda, Sidious and Windu (with Vaapad, might I add) are explicitly extremely fast fighters, Obi-Wan and Anakin are as well, but not on their level.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

i dont think im explaining it well enough

Yoda > Sidious=Vapaad Mace > Anankin > Dooku = Yoda > Sidious=Vapaad Mace.. etc etc etc

this is faulty circular scaling that has no reason to it.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Tbh eyeballing it Yoda seems to be moving much faster against Dooku comparing to Anakin...Yoda was jumping and leaping everywhere extremely quickly while Anakin doesn't look really quick, but rather strong.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

in the novel, dooku couldnt see his (anakin's) blade, only its light. i think he was using his all just to block. he wasnt this stressed by Yoda in none of their 3 fights.

 

[ByAsura]

@Lorenzo Or Anakin just isn't as fast as you're claiming.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Dooku was getting overpowered by Yoda pretty bad, at least in AOTC.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Yoda isn't exactly slow in AOTC vs Dooku either.

Dooku gave a crisp salute, igniting his own red blade, but then, formalities over, he leapt at Yoda, a sudden and devastating thrust. But one that never got close to hitting. With hardly a movement, Yoda turned the blade aside. Dooku went into a wild flurry then, the likes of which he had not shown against Obi-Wan or Anakin, raining blows at the diminutive Master. But Yoda didn't even seem to move. He didn't step back or to the side, yet his subtle dodges and precision parries kept Dooku's blade slashing and stabbing harmlessly wide. It went on and on for many moments, but eventually Dooku's flurry began to slow, and the Count, recognizing the Futility of this attempt to overwhelm, stepped back fast. Not fast enough. With a sudden burst of sheer power, Master Yoda flew forward, his blade working so mightily that its residual glow outshone even those of both of Anakin's lightsabers when he was at the peak of his dance. Dooku held strong, though, his red blade parrying brilliantly, each block backed by the power of the Force, or else Yoda's strikes would have driven right through. Just as he was about to launch a counter, though, Yoda was gone, leaping high and turning a somersault to land right behind Dooku, in perfect balance, striking hard. Dooku reversed his grip and stabbed out behind him, intercepting the blow. He let go of his weapon altogether, tossing it just a bit, and spun about, catching it before it had even disengaged from Yoda's blade. With a growl of rage, Dooku reached more deeply into the Force, letting it flow through him as if his physical form was a mere conduit for its power. His tempo increased suddenly and dramatically, three steps forward, two back, perfectly balanced all the while. His fighting style was one based on balance, on the back-and-forth charges, thrusts and sudden retreats, and now he came at Yoda with a series of cunning stabs, angled left and right. Never could he strike low, though, for never did Yoda seem to be on the ground, leaping and spinning, flying all about, parrying each blow and offering cunning counters that had Dooku skipping backward desperately. Dooku stabbed up high, turning the angle of his lightsaber in anticipation that Yoda would dodge left. But Yoda, as if in complete anticipation of the movement, veered neither left nor right, but rather, dropped to the ground. The Count had already retracted the missed thrust, and began a second stab, this time down low, but Yoda had anticipated that, too, and went right back up behind the stabbing blade. A sudden stab by Yoda had Dooku quick-stepping back even more off-balance, for the first time, and then Yoda flew away, up and back. The furious Dooku pursued, thrusting hard for Yoda's head. And in his rage when his stab missed yet again, he reverted to a slashing attack. Yoda's green blade caught the blow, holding the red lightsaber at bay, locking the two in a contest of strength, physical and of the Force.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

or like i said, its ****** up scaling? i explained it pretty well.

Anakin is faster than dooku; dooku is about as fast as yoda; yoda is faster than sheev; sheev is as fast as vapaad mace, and somehow, he gets indirectly blitzed by the last two?

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

@spino u are right. but the dooku anakin fought was faster than this dooku, and he was even more stressed. this would make anakin about as fast as yoda. the same yoda who fought sidious