- 11,099
- 4,323
EDIT: It's just the Jango Fett and lightsaber stuff left to discuss
Minor stuff first
Minor Outlier Removal
On Count Dooku's profile, his fight against Yoda was listed as a supporting feat for his AP. However, Dooku vs Yoda is considered an outlier, plus IIRC several statements actually say that Yoda was casual or something. So that should be removed.
Applied
Jango Fett Downgrade and Upgrade
Canon Jango Fett's speed should be downgraded to Peak Human. His fight against Obi-Wan was considered an outlier (which is why he isn't High 7-C), and thus his speed shouldn't be Massively Hypersonic.
However, Legends Jango Fett is actually quite powerful, and should indeed scale to Jedi's combat speed. To quote Eficiente:
The canon versions of most bounty hunter suck but the lagends version of Jango and Boba should very much scale in terms of speed."
Here's a compilation of Legends Jango Fett's speed feats.
However he only scales in terms of speed and combat speed, not AP.
He also has a lifting strength feat of moving a Hutt. Jabba the Hutt weighs 1358 kg, and that Hutt should be similar, so Class 5 lifting strength for Jango and Boba Fett.
Speed
Jedi's Precognition
I calculate Jedi's base reactions (without Force precognition) to be Supersonic.
Currently, we attribute Star Wars' MHS and MHS+ feats to precognition. However, Eficiente disagrees.
Personally I am fine either way but if we decide that Eficiente is correct then we should remove the "Wall level normally" stuff from the Jedis' profiles as well.
Refer to below
Speed Scaling
Right now, we scale all the powerful High 7-C Jedi to Mace Windu's Massively Hypersonic+ feat. The original justification for this:
I, however, disagree with this. Dooku vs Yoda is considered an outlier, plus Yoda is casual. And Palpatine was extremely casual in his fight against Maul IIRC. If we don't scale High 7-C characters to 6-C from a few outlier fight, then I see no reason their speed should scale too.
Apparently another justification for the scaling is Kit Fisto fighting Sidious for a few seconds before dying, but it was clear in that fight that Sidious was much faster, as he killed 3 Jedi Masters in mere seconds.
Not to mention Anakin, probably the most powerful Jedi at that time other than Yoda and Mace Windu, couldn't perceive Windu and Sidious fighting.
Correction: This is actually a Legends quote. Regardless, my point still stands.
Updated suggestion: "Naturally Supersonic (Scaling/Feats), with Force amplifications Massively Hypersonic normally (Scaling/Feats), up to Massively Hypersonic+ with enough effort (Scaling/Feats. Although this quickly consumes his/her stamina and only lasts a few minutes before exhaustion)"
Other stuff
Lightsabers
To shamelessly quote Eficiente again:
And DarkDragonMedeus:
General Grievous's durability should probably be something like "At least Large Town level, likely far higher" since he states he is indestructible and Obi-Wan is unable to harm him either with physical blows or his lightsaber.
"At least"
I suggested making the most powerful Jedi like Dooku, Anakin, maybe Obi-Wan "At least High 7-C to note that they are more powerful than the average High 7-C Jedi.
Eficiente disagrees though.
Still I think at least Anakin and Dooku should be noted to be superior to High 7-C.
Conclusion
Minor stuff first
Minor Outlier Removal
Applied
Jango Fett Downgrade and Upgrade
Canon Jango Fett's speed should be downgraded to Peak Human. His fight against Obi-Wan was considered an outlier (which is why he isn't High 7-C), and thus his speed shouldn't be Massively Hypersonic.
However, Legends Jango Fett is actually quite powerful, and should indeed scale to Jedi's combat speed. To quote Eficiente:
Jango defeated & killed Dooku's apprentice as a boss fight in his game, no surprise attacks or cheap tactics. The Jedi Jango took out & killed and his fight with Obi-Wan were both done due to pure combat skills and strategic tactics. And Windu considered Jando in high regard in and way before their duel, the latter did not got stomp, he didn't notice a failure in his jetpack, failed when trying to use it and got killed due to that. |
Here's a compilation of Legends Jango Fett's speed feats.
However he only scales in terms of speed and combat speed, not AP.
He also has a lifting strength feat of moving a Hutt. Jabba the Hutt weighs 1358 kg, and that Hutt should be similar, so Class 5 lifting strength for Jango and Boba Fett.
Speed
Jedi's Precognition
I calculate Jedi's base reactions (without Force precognition) to be Supersonic.
Not sensing the clones' betrayal should not be enough, as the Force amps Jedi physically and makes them superhuman. I know our calcs attribute their speed feats to their precog, but this is bullsh*t. Also, there would be no reason to scale this to other characters, as the wording here maybe suggests. |
Refer to below
Speed Scaling
So I guess it might be okay to scale Force Adepts at strong Jedi Master level and Jedi High Council member level to the MHS+ feat? This would scale to Grievous as well obviously since he can keep up with combatants of such level (such as Ventress, who is quite swift herself) and overpower the likes of Padawan Ahsoka (who can only put up a defensive effort against him). | ||
~ Soldier Blue |
Apparently another justification for the scaling is Kit Fisto fighting Sidious for a few seconds before dying, but it was clear in that fight that Sidious was much faster, as he killed 3 Jedi Masters in mere seconds.
Not to mention Anakin, probably the most powerful Jedi at that time other than Yoda and Mace Windu, couldn't perceive Windu and Sidious fighting.
|
Updated suggestion: "Naturally Supersonic (Scaling/Feats), with Force amplifications Massively Hypersonic normally (Scaling/Feats), up to Massively Hypersonic+ with enough effort (Scaling/Feats. Although this quickly consumes his/her stamina and only lasts a few minutes before exhaustion)"
Other stuff
Lightsabers
To shamelessly quote Eficiente again:
We should rank the profiles with the characters' physicality and a different AP or a "higher" with lightsaber/s (obviously empowered by the Force), that part being above their AP & durability. We have something somewhat like that on profiles but it's weird, it looks like durability negation but everyone knows it's not that. |
Plus, the Lightsaber profile in general looks iffy, since it's mostly the wielder that determines how powerful a Lightsaber is like most melee weapons and not so much the Lightsaber generating that much energy. |
"At least"
I suggested making the most powerful Jedi like Dooku, Anakin, maybe Obi-Wan "At least High 7-C to note that they are more powerful than the average High 7-C Jedi.
Eficiente disagrees though.
Also I really don't like the "At least", the characters with it can still get harm by the characters without it, the real differences they have is in skill, the scale of their Force abilities and how some have some abilities others don't. There is some more power but not a lot. |
Conclusion
Remove Yoda vs Dooku from Dooku's profileApplied- Downgrade Canon Jango Fett to Peak Human speed - Update: Most people seem to be fine with this
- Upgrade Legends Jango Fett to Relativistic+ and Class 5 Update: More input needed
Decide whether Jedi needs precognition and actively using the Force, or that they are augmented by the Force all the timeRefer to belowDowngrade everyone to Massively Hypersonic except Yoda, Sidious and WinduUpdated suggestion: "Naturally Supersonic (Scaling/Feats), with Force amplifications Massively Hypersonic normally (Scaling/Feats), up to Massively Hypersonic+ with enough effort (Scaling/Feats. Although this quickly consumes his/her stamina and only lasts a few minutes before exhaustion)"- Change lightsabers on characters' profiles to be "higher with lightsabers", as well as rewrite the lightsaber profile - Update: Still being discussed
- Possible at least for the most powerful Jedi at the time of the Republic, although some people disagree - Update: Most people seem to disagree