Mooncell High 1C Revision

[1Nairove]

Well, considering the fact the laws of physics don't even work beyond Planck's constant, It's hard to believe they have so much bearing that they can be equated as encompassing the logical structure of a dimension. if you want to use that as an argument you're going to need in-verse proof.

are you talking about proving the physical laws of the universe?

 

[inkownn]

This reasoning seems very off.
First about the moon core. Do we have any evidence that when Rani says “higher dimensional” she is referring to being higher dimensional from the moon cell? Because any object that is beyond the 4 standard dimensions can be labeled as “higher dimensional.” The 8d barrier of said moon cell would also be considered as such. Essentially your 9d thing only works if there’s evidence that Rani is saying higher dimensional to the rest of the moon cell.
Now for the imaginary dimensions being “unreachable by physics” i really don’t see how this implies it is higher dimensional unless you are only able to think that “unreachable by physics” means higher than physics. Which isn’t necessarily the case. If you were to operate on a different system of physics entirely, then it would be impossible to reach your state with any other system of physics, that doesn’t mean you are above said system, it just means you are different (excuse me for that run on sentence). In fact that would actually make more sense with the context of imaginary numbers being illogical to regular numbers. Not above them in amount, simply unreachable through regular means.

 

[1Nairove]

This reasoning seems very off.
First about the moon core. Do we have any evidence that when Rani says “higher dimensional” she is referring to being higher dimensional from the moon cell? Because any object that is beyond the 4 standard dimensions can be labeled as “higher dimensional.” The 8d barrier of said moon cell would also be considered as such. Essentially your 9d thing only works if there’s evidence that Rani is saying higher dimensional to the rest of the moon cell.
Now for the imaginary dimensions being “unreachable by physics” i really don’t see how this implies it is higher dimensional unless you are only able to think that “unreachable by physics” means higher than physics. Which isn’t necessarily the case. If you were to operate on a different system of physics entirely, then it would be impossible to reach your state with any other system of physics, that doesn’t mean you are above said system, it just means you are different (excuse me for that run on sentence). In fact that would actually make more sense with the context of imaginary numbers being illogical to regular numbers. Not above them in amount, simply unreachable through regular means.

I think I've given enough evidence about the core already because this evidence is the information that comes out of the mouths of the characters who know about mooncell, and these are already in the scale

https://imgur.io/a/WNKxfl7#zMqXo46

As for this physics issue, I'm not entirely sure either, but as far as I know, the system works like this. We can assume that the directions of all the vectors in 9D are in a plane that cannot be detected and studied by the current laws of physics, and we can assume that this is an imaginary space number (for example) that the vectors of the dimension that are within the framework of logic. if it can't perceive or reach something beyond the dimension, it should definitely put it in a higher dimension, if this is nonsense I have also proven that the far side of the Moon is a higher dimension on the evidence and you can see that it is suitable for statment again

https://r.resimlink.com/J72UlL0.jpg

https://r.resimlink.com/7nIvg_JTf.jpg

 

[Toska]

good

 

[1Nairove]

@Paul_Frank @Regidian @CrimsonStarFallen what are your thoughts on this scale?

 

[Tdjwo]

I fully agree with the mooncell being 9D. I also agree with 10D mooncell but I'm still open-minded to it.

 

[Ubdon]

@Paul_Frank @Regidian @CrimsonStarFallen what are your thoughts on this scale?

you can't ping if you not staff but they probably saw this crt

 

[1Nairove]

you can't ping if you not stuff but they probably saw this crt

sht, anyway it saddens me that they don't express an opinion on the scale

 

[Larssx]

sht, anyway it saddens me that they don't express an opinion on the scale

They may not have seen it, try writing to their message wall.

 

[Ubdon]

They may not have seen it, try writing to their message wall.

they have seen it

 

[Theoretical_Toxic19]

perceived or studied in any way with the laws of physics will take you to a higher dimension.

Not by necessity and especially not in this case it can't be studied by classical laws of physics because it operates on different laws not that its above some set reality, it is even said that if the imaginary number of space had dwellers they also wouldn't be capable of perceiving our world in this case the real number space.

Considering that everything in the mooncell aside from its core (imaginary number of space and the 8th dimensional wall) is regarded as nothing but an "additional" memory of the core itself and the core itself is the one thing that is capable of managing the moon itself, observing earth and acting as the holy grail itself to provide winners of the holy grail war within the mooncell the wishes they desire I think that and the higher dimensional existence statement would be enough to make it 9 dimensional

Also BB could break the 8th dimensional wall but having reached the mooncell and becoming one with it and the holy grail/the core itself it was only then that everyone within the school lost hope in fighting against her prior to the mythological mystic code amps

So I agree with 9D mooncell and disagree with 11D and 10D due to narrative consistency

 

[1Nairove]

Zorunluluktan değil ve özellikle bu durumda, klasik fizik yasaları tarafından incelenemez çünkü farklı yasalara göre çalışır, belirli bir gerçekliğin üzerinde değildir, hatta eğer hayali sayıda uzayda yaşayanların da olacağı söylenir. Bu durumda gerçek sayı uzayını dünyamızı algılayabilecek durumdayız.

Ay hücresindeki çekirdek dışında her şeyin (hayali uzay sayısı ve 8. boyut duvarı), çekirdeğin kendisinin "ek" bir hafızasından başka bir şey olarak görülmediği ve çekirdeğin kendisinin ayı yönetebilen tek şey olduğu düşünüldüğünde Ay hücresi içindeki kutsal kâse savaşının galiplerine arzu ettikleri dilekleri sağlamak için dünyayı gözlemlemek ve kutsal kâse gibi hareket etmek bence bu ve daha yüksek boyutlu varoluş ifadesi onu 9 boyutlu yapmak için yeterli olacaktır.

Ayrıca BB, 8. boyut duvarını kırabilirdi ama ay hücresine ulaşıp onunla ve kutsal kâse/çekirdeğin kendisiyle bir olduktan sonra, ancak o zaman okuldaki herkes mitolojik mistik kod amfilerinden önce ona karşı savaşma umudunu yitirdi.

Bu yüzden 9D mooncell'e katılıyorum ve anlatım tutarlılığı nedeniyle 11D ve 10D'ye katılmıyorum

In other words, in order to give dimensions over imaginary space numbers, do I have to prove that the aforementioned laws of physics are in the universe? there is another place you missed, the far side of the moon is in a higher dimension like the core, can we give 10D from here?

 

[Iiliminal]

lol if this goes through completely then 1-B outer gods and heroic spirits

 

[Ubdon]

lol if this goes through completely then 1-B outer gods and heroic spirits

yeah keyword if

 

[Ubdon]

I think if the 9D is accepted we will now be able to take on fate characters with dms lol

need 2-3 staff for it to be accepted

 

[1Nairove]

need 2-3 staff for it to be accepted

Are you ready for the final question, where will I find them

 

[YungManzi]

I think I've given enough evidence about the core already because this evidence is the information that comes out of the mouths of the characters who know about mooncell, and these are already in the scale

I think you’re missing inknownn’s point. I believe their point is that without additional context, being stated to be higher dimensional means absolutely nothing, because you could be talking about anything that’s higher dimensional (Above 3-D), and it does not necessarily have to be higher dimensional than 8-D or even 4-D for that matter.

Like, is there any context or statements that suggest what exactly it’s supposed to be higher d above?

 

[inkownn]

I think I've given enough evidence about the core already because this evidence is the information that comes out of the mouths of the characters who know about mooncell, and these are already in the scale

https://imgur.io/a/WNKxfl7#zMqXo46

As for this physics issue, I'm not entirely sure either, but as far as I know, the system works like this. We can assume that the directions of all the vectors in 9D are in a plane that cannot be detected and studied by the current laws of physics, and we can assume that this is an imaginary space number (for example) that the vectors of the dimension that are within the framework of logic. if it can't perceive or reach something beyond the dimension, it should definitely put it in a higher dimension, if this is nonsense I have also proven that the far side of the Moon is a higher dimension on the evidence and you can see that it is suitable for statment again

https://r.resimlink.com/J72UlL0.jpg

https://r.resimlink.com/7nIvg_JTf.jpg

My issue isn’t with the statement “higher dimensional” I agree the reverse side of the moon and even the core of the moon are higher dimensional. But without context given to what it is being higher dimensional to I cannot assume it will be the moon cell. For example let’s say I originally come from a 3D world, and then travel to a 5d one. If I started to talk about an object and say it is “higher dimensional” how do you know if I mean higher than 5d or higher than 3D? You don’t, because it’s a vague statement.

About the physics part you mentioned, I went over this. You are correct in the sense that a higher dimension would be unreachable the logical framework of a lower one’s direction. However you are wrong on assuming that anything that is unreasonable to a lower one’s direction is required to be a higher dimension. Imaginary numbers, like “i”, work on an entirely different framework than normal numbers (let’s say 5). i !> 5, but 5>! i. Neither is bigger than the other, they simply work on different systems and so they are unreachable to each other. Being unreachable to a system doesn’t necessarily mean you are above it or even “exceed” the logical framework.

 

[1Nairove]

I think you’re missing inknownn’s point. I believe their point is that without additional context, being stated to be higher dimensional means absolutely nothing, because you could be talking about anything that’s higher dimensional (Above 3-D), and it does not necessarily have to be higher dimensional than 8-D or even 4-D for that matter.

Like, is there any context or statements that suggest what exactly it’s supposed to be higher d above?

dude the evidence I presented is already used for mooncell. If you review the scale, I already discussed that it consists of 4 regions, and all the evidence I presented is evidence for these 4 regions, which already clearly says that mooncell is 8D, so these are the things that affect the 8th dimension, so of course "high" dimensional" are the terms to be used for the 8th Dimension

 

[1Nairove]

Benim sorunum “yüksek boyutlu” ifadesiyle değil. Ay'ın arka tarafının ve hatta ayın çekirdeğinin bile daha yüksek boyutlu olduğuna katılıyorum. Ancak, daha yüksek boyutlu olduğu bağlamı olmadan, onun ay hücresi olacağını varsayamam. Örneğin, aslen 3 boyutlu bir dünyadan geldiğimi ve sonra 5 boyutlu bir dünyaya seyahat ettiğimi varsayalım. Bir nesne hakkında konuşmaya başlarsam ve onun “yüksek boyutlu” olduğunu söylersem, 5d'den yüksek mi yoksa 3B'den yüksek mi demek istediğimi nasıl anlarsınız? Bilmiyorsun, çünkü bu belirsiz bir ifade.

Bahsettiğiniz fizik kısmı hakkında, bunun üzerinden geçtim. Daha yüksek bir boyuta, daha düşük bir kişinin yönünün mantıksal çerçevesine ulaşılamaz olacağı anlamında haklısınız. Bununla birlikte, daha düşük bir yön için mantıksız olan herhangi bir şeyin daha yüksek bir boyut olması gerektiğini varsaymakla yanılıyorsunuz. “i” gibi hayali sayılar, normal sayılardan tamamen farklı bir çerçeve üzerinde çalışır (5 diyelim). ben !> 5, ama 5>! Ben. Hiçbiri birbirinden büyük değil, sadece farklı sistemler üzerinde çalışıyorlar ve bu yüzden birbirlerine ulaşamıyorlar. Bir sisteme ulaşılamaz olmak, onun üzerinde olduğunuz veya hatta mantıksal çerçeveyi "aştığınız" anlamına gelmez.

The example you gave at first confused me. If we make an analogy, let's take the mooncell as 5D and the far side of the moon as 3D, so what you mean here is that this higher dimension is higher than which one? So in response to this, I can only say that these 4 Regions I mentioned are related and related to each other, so here we will need a 9D core, not an 8D barrier, to get 10D, but I already know that these regions have a chain scale, am I wrong?

Physics is idk

 

[Ubdon]

Are you ready for the final question, where will I find them

It's not that hard

 

[1Nairove]

o kadar zor değil

I wrote to someone

 

[inkownn]

dude the evidence I presented is already used for mooncell. If you review the scale, I already discussed that it consists of 4 regions, and all the evidence I presented is evidence for these 4 regions, which already clearly says that mooncell is 8D, so these are the things that affect the 8th dimension, so of course "high" dimensional" are the terms to be used for the 8th Dimension

So you agree that when Rani says “higher dimensional” she’s just talking about it being 8d? Because the person you responded to was not contesting the 8d scaling. Was just reaffirming the refutation that there isn’t enough evidence to prove Rani is referring to a dimension higher than 8d.

 

[inkownn]

M

The example you gave at first confused me. If we make an analogy, let's take the mooncell as 5D and the far side of the moon as 3D, so what you mean here is that this higher dimension is higher than which one? So in response to this, I can only say that these 4 Regions I mentioned are related and related to each other, so here we will need a 9D core, not an 8D barrier, to get 10D, but I already know that these regions have a chain scale, am I wrong?

Physics is idk

My analogy had nothing to do with the regions of the moon. It was trying to show you that when Rani says “higher dimensional” it doesn’t mean higher than the 8d moon. It just means some dimension higher than 4d. We have an 8d barrier. And two structures that are stated to be higher dimensional (other side and core) but we have no idea how many dimensions those two structures are. Just that they are more than 4.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I might be late, however, I just came here to state my agreement with this CRT aswell. Skimming a bit through it, seems straightforward enough.

 

[1Nairove]

M


Analojimin ayın bölgeleriyle hiçbir ilgisi yoktu. Rani "yüksek boyutlu" derken bunun 8. aydan daha yüksek anlamına gelmediğini size göstermeye çalışıyordu. Bu sadece 4d'den daha yüksek bir boyut anlamına gelir. 8d bariyerimiz var. Ve daha yüksek boyutlu olduğu belirtilen iki yapı (diğer taraf ve çekirdek), ancak bu iki yapının kaç boyutlu olduğu hakkında hiçbir fikrimiz yok. Sadece 4'ten fazla oldukları için.

I turned the example you gave into the subject, so I know, on the other hand, we agree that there will be 9D indirectly through the core, which is not already connected to the mooncell in these 4 Regions, is it? that is, the affected dimension in a single region should be reflected in other regions, which means that the said region needs to go from 8D to 9D and from there to 10D (I can do a deep research for evidence of this)

 

[inkownn]

I turned the example you gave into the subject, so I know, on the other hand, we agree that there will be 9D indirectly through the core, which is not already connected to the mooncell in these 4 Regions, is it? that is, the affected dimension in a single region should be reflected in other regions, which means that the said region needs to go from 8D to 9D and from there to 10D (I can do a deep research for evidence of this)

I agree that the core is connected to the moon cell. I disagree with the core being 9d because there’s not enough evidence for it. The one scan that you provided simply states that the core is higher dimensional. But this could be any number of dimensions above 4, it doesn’t have to be 9.

 

[1Nairove]

I agree that the core is connected to the moon cell. I disagree with the core being 9d because there’s not enough evidence for it. The one scan that you provided simply states that the core is higher dimensional. But this could be any number of dimensions above 4, it doesn’t have to be 9.

I still don't understand why you think it is above 4, the barrier itself is already 8D and this gives scale to the mooncell itself and it is a structure that is said to be higher dimensional than the barrier, that is, higher dimensional than 8D, so of course it will be 9D here because it is already 4D or 5-6 -7D has no subject

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Examples of scaled characters include Gilgamesh, BB, Kiara, all the beasts, and most grand servants

Many of these scaled characters have a plethora of feats outside of the Moon Cell that aren't remotely comparable to 1-C. They shouldn't scale to anything done in the Moon Cell as the Moon Cell operates under special circumstances that don't correlate with normal reality. On top of that, Amaterasu was stated to be the strongest being in Extra (stronger than BB and Kiara), and her power level is only equivalent to the Sun (as the deification of the Sun). The strongest being in Extra is only 4-C, and no other characters in Extra compare to her in power (except obviously 9-Tailed Tamamo and Arcueid), so almost no characters should scale to 1-C. Characters like BB and Kiara should only be considered 1-C under the special circumstances of the Moon Cell, and any servants that scale to them shouldn't be treated as 1-C outside of the Moon Cell.

 

[Iiliminal]

xd

 

[inkownn]

this gives scale to the mooncell itself and it is a structure that is said to be higher dimensional than the barrier, that is, higher dimensional than 8D

“it is a structure that is said to be higher dimensional than the barrier” this, this is what I want you to prove. Because the scan you sent said absolutely nothing about being higher dimensional than the barrier. The only thing it stated was that the core it higher dimensional. Flat. It said nothing about what it is higher dimensional to and saying that it was referring to being above the barrier or any other part of the moon cell is a leap in logic

 

[inkownn]

Many of these scaled characters have a plethora of feats outside of the Moon Cell that aren't remotely comparable to 1-C. They shouldn't scale to anything done in the Moon Cell as the Moon Cell operates under special circumstances that don't correlate with normal reality. On top of that, Amaterasu was stated to be the strongest being in Extra (stronger than BB and Kiara), and her power level is only equivalent to the Sun (as the deification of the Sun). The strongest being in Extra is only 4-C, and no other characters in Extra compare to her in power (except obviously 9-Tailed Tamamo and Arcueid), so almost no characters should scale to 1-C. Characters like BB and Kiara should only be considered 1-C under the special circumstances of the Moon Cell, and any servants that scale to them shouldn't be treated as 1-C outside of the Moon Cell.

While I agree most of these higher tier fate characters should be low 1-C instead of 1-C (which is why they are given the “possibly 1-C rating” and I am content with that) your argument for them capping at 4-A is inconsistent. Being equal to the sun can very well just be a hyperbole. On top of that, just like how there can be outliers for high feats, there can be outliers for lower feats. And In ccc’s case it is more consistently 1-C than it is 4-A.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Mooncell's core, on the other hand, is implicitly in a higher dimension, transforming it into a 9D structure

When it says "higher dimensional" here, are we sure that it means higher than the barriers? If not, that would place it in any dimension greater than 4.

However, the mooncell in this state is still at 1C level but things get interesting here, the Moon has something called the far side of the Mooncel and this side of the universe has been described as "undetectable or observable by the current laws of physics

I don't think that's enough for 10D

And I am not interested in 11D, so I don't plan to answer that

Anyway, I disagree

 

[Ubdon]

While I agree most of these higher tier fate characters should be low 1-C instead of 1-C (which is why they are given the “possibly 1-C rating” and I am content with that) your argument for them capping at 4-A is inconsistent. Being equal to the sun can very well just be a hyperbole. On top of that, just like how there can be outliers for high feats, there can be outliers for lower feats. And In ccc’s case it is more consistently 1-C than it is 4-A.

It's simpier: this "sun" also high tier so it debunks nothing

 

[inkownn]

It's simpier: this "sun" also high tier so it debunks nothing

~~outer sun~~

 

[1Nairove]

“it is a structure that is said to be higher dimensional than the barrier” this, this is what I want you to prove. Because the scan you sent said absolutely nothing about being higher dimensional than the barrier. The only thing it stated was that the core it higher dimensional. Flat. It said nothing about what it is higher dimensional to and saying that it was referring to being above the barrier or any other part of the moon cell is a leap in logic

Look, Mooncell's not only variant is 8D, but thanks to this barrier, it is the entire Mooncell 8D, including any of the 4 Zones I mentioned, so it's actually an 8D structure at the core and a 9D with a higher dimension, that's what I wanted to talk about, am I wrong? The barrier is scaled not only to itself but to the entire mooncell

 

[Regidian]

Many of these scaled characters have a plethora of feats outside of the Moon Cell that aren't remotely comparable to 1-C. They shouldn't scale to anything done in the Moon Cell as the Moon Cell operates under special circumstances that don't correlate with normal reality. On top of that, Amaterasu was stated to be the strongest being in Extra (stronger than BB and Kiara), and her power level is only equivalent to the Sun (as the deification of the Sun). The strongest being in Extra is only 4-C, and no other characters in Extra compare to her in power (except obviously 9-Tailed Tamamo and Arcueid), so almost no characters should scale to 1-C. Characters like BB and Kiara should only be considered 1-C under the special circumstances of the Moon Cell, and any servants that scale to them shouldn't be treated as 1-C outside of the Moon Cell.

The scaling of servant to moon cell and etc is a thing already accepting and as such it would be good if you don't talk about it here.

 

[1Nairove]

Burada “yüksek boyutlu” derken, bariyerlerden daha yüksek anlamına geldiğinden emin miyiz? Değilse, bu onu 4'ten büyük herhangi bir boyuta yerleştirir.

Bence bu 10D için yeterli değil.

Ve 11D ile ilgilenmiyorum, bu yüzden buna cevap vermeyi düşünmüyorum

Her neyse, katılmıyorum

that's what we're discussing

 

[MaxLevel_King]

While I agree most of these higher tier fate characters should be low 1-C instead of 1-C (which is why they are given the “possibly 1-C rating” and I am content with that) your argument for them capping at 4-A is inconsistent. Being equal to the sun can very well just be a hyperbole. On top of that, just like how there can be outliers for high feats, there can be outliers for lower feats. And In ccc’s case it is more consistently 1-C than it is 4-A.

While I agree most of these higher tier fate characters should be low 1-C instead of 1-C (which is why they are given the “possibly 1-C rating” and I am content with that) your argument for them capping at 4-A is inconsistent. Being equal to the sun can very well just be a hyperbole. On top of that, just like how there can be outliers for high feats, there can be outliers for lower feats. And In ccc’s case it is more consistently 1-C than it is 4-A.

That's not hyperbole. She is literally the sun but deified. It's stated that unlike the Divine Spirits on Earth, she belongs to the Universe. As for the consistent 1-C feats, they're consistent within the confines of the Moon Cell. The reality of the Moon Cell doesn't operate the same way that the reality of Earth's texture does.

 

[inkownn]

Look, Mooncell's not only variant is 8D, but thanks to this barrier, it is the entire Mooncell 8D, including any of the 4 Zones I mentioned, so it's actually an 8D structure at the core and a 9D with a higher dimension, that's what I wanted to talk about, am I wrong? The barrier is scaled not only to itself but to the entire mooncell

You still aren’t attacking what I’m saying. It doesn’t matter if the entire moon cell is 8d because there’s still no evidence that when Rani says “higher dimensional” she’s talking about it being higher dimensional to the moon cell.