Monster Hunter General Discussion Thread.

[Sigilavox]

It wouldn't make sense for Kushala to only use a fraction of it's overall ability to control the wind against a hunter genuinely trying to kill them, but yeah, the part where we don't really see it flap it's wings to do this does sorta apply (granted this is the only time we supposedly see their wind manipulation actually project a storm outwards like this, so maybe that's where the idea comes from)

Do remember these games were like, on the 3Ds, so they may have just took a compromise that they then went back on in World (Where an Elder Dragon being around noticeably causes an environmental effect specific to them, with Kushala in particular always bringing a storm along with them)

Isn't the ability to exhale wind pressure blasts or wreathe one's body in a wind aura separate from whipping up rainstorms? Like, Weather Control versus Air Manipulation? Storms involve a lot more than just causing air currents to be pushed one direction or another, like temperature, water density, conditions relating to lightning, et cetera. Kushala might just have wind pressure it uses offensively and weather manip it uses passively.

To make the case, it really feels like a textbook example of Environmental Destruction here since we never see a Kushala use actual attacks that even approach the same potency as would be required to make these environmental effects happen. In any cutscene released in Sunbreak, the expansion for the game with the most flat-out crazy monster designs and item descriptions outside of Frontier, we never see Kushala Daora, some of which are clearly fighting dangerous foes, attacking anybody with that kind of power. It's always just background dressing. Not that a storm can't be dangerous in and of itself, but I don't think it's likely that a Kushala can concentrate the massive range and power to summon a gigantic horizon-stretching storm into a single puff of air from its mouth or a swipe from its claw.

There's a very clear scale the series wants to depict its monsters as capable of when they are fighting all-out, which is always much lower than the scale on which we see them, like, passively altering the world. Fatalis scorches a few hundred meters of castle, and that's terrifying. Yet the earthquakes it was causing earlier weren't all that bad, nor the wildfires breaking out, from the perspective of the world. Weird that, taken at face value, Fatalis's limit-breaking ultimate attack is an immeasurably flaccid showing compared with a silent three seconds of 3DS footage, right? Are we really fine with saying the strongest monster's strongest attack with the best technology the devs have ever had thus far is... not even a blip compared with a monster two tiers below itself? I don't know, stuff like that rubs me the wrong way.

Even in the 4U cutscene Kushala's tiny tornado causes the Kindred Hunter to stumble and fall back, whereas the sky-clearing thing just... happened. Not even a sound effect to demonstrate, I don't know, a massive storm being dispersed by the sheer force of Kushala's air pushing powers. Definitely not meant to showcase a literal attack of the thing, and that's still assuming the storm covered the entire horizon. I'm doubtful that the size of the storm is a technological handwave, since don't we also see environmental effects in Generations, a game coming out for the same system and in the same year as 4 Ultimate, where Nakarkos dies and a massive storm just stops existing, right?

In any case, the World feats we do have in terms of bringing weather conditions are vastly lower than what the calculations for that specific cutscene are anyways, when they really did have the technology to show such feats in full power. Kirin's set at like Low 7-B, right?

 

[Sigilavox]

However, that said: I do think Kushala does have some kind of wind pressure power it can just manifest by physically flapping its wings, based on its Rise cutscene. It sorta whips up a tornado and flies around veiled in huge gusts of wind, though all of this is centralized on its own location. The clouds in the sky aren't moving at all, as an aside. Also, in the Furious Rajang cutscene it does seem to be creating some kind of massive wind vortex over the locale for extra funny points.

 

[DMUA]

Storms involve a lot more than just causing air currents to be pushed one direction or another, like temperature, water density, conditions relating to lightning, et cetera.

Yeah, but in this specific case the storm is just instantly dispersing into the horizon, it's not like all of that takes a bit of time breaking down

There's a very clear scale the series wants to depict its monsters as capable of when they are fighting all-out, which is always much lower than the scale on which we see them, like, passively altering the world. Fatalis scorches a few hundred meters of castle, and that's terrifying. Yet the earthquakes it was causing earlier weren't all that bad, nor the wildfires breaking out, from the perspective of the world. Weird that, taken at face value, Fatalis's limit-breaking ultimate attack is an immeasurably flaccid showing compared with a silent three seconds of 3DS footage, right? Are we really fine with saying the strongest monster's strongest attack with the best technology the devs have ever had thus far is... not even a blip compared with a monster two tiers below itself? I don't know, stuff like that rubs me the wrong way.

At some point it's hard to really practically show this without just demolishing the area and reducing the gameplay to a light and sound concoction that makes no sense, like what we see in Frontier

It's not like the series is a stranger to big statements and lore they don't really represent proportionally, in-between Dire Miralis boiling the tainted sea, Dalamadur causing massive earthquakes and warping landscapes by just moving around, Zorah Magdaros' sheer internal energy being enough to melt a continent (and judging by the Guiding Lands having a corpse of one around while it's not a total wasteland, Safi'jiiva absorbing that energy or at least surviving a head on collision from it), meanwhile Fatalis' gigantic flame is 7-C

Ultimately, sometimes feats just sort of occur, the discussion should be relegated to if that's a thing (and there is wiggle room there)

Even in the 4U cutscene Kushala's tiny tornado causes the Kindred Hunter to stumble and fall back, whereas the sky-clearing thing just... happened. Not even a sound effect to demonstrate, I don't know, a massive storm being dispersed by the sheer force of Kushala's air pushing powers.

The clouds were pretty high into the sky (from what I remember of the conditions, about 15000 feet up? I know it's definitely way higher than a mountain range, which the player wouldn't really be at in this case)

I'm doubtful that the size of the storm is a technological handwave, since don't we also see environmental effects in Generations, a game coming out for the same system and in the same year as 4 Ultimate, where Nakarkos dies and a massive storm just stops existing, right?

Generations was 2 years afterwards (going by Japan releases, 2013 and 2015 respectively), so they probably just had more time to push the limits or find workarounds to represent something like this

In any case, the World feats we do have in terms of bringing weather conditions are vastly lower than what the calculations for that specific cutscene are anyways, when they really did have the technology to show such feats in full power. Kirin's set at like Low 7-B, right?

Mostly because they just have the storm around them by default instead of manipulating it like we see with Kushala (and they probably just didn't want to recycle the set piece from 4U, and just stuck with a scene more towards the ground where they could show the crystals being picked up by his tornadoes)

However, that said: I do think Kushala does have some kind of wind pressure power it can just manifest by physically flapping its wings

Yeah, Wind Pressure armor was one of their big mechanics in earlier generations (came back in World but isn't nearly as prevalent if you just beat them hard enough that they don't progress to that stage)

 

[Sigilavox]

Generations was 2 years afterwards (going by Japan releases, 2013 and 2015 respectively), so they probably just had more time to push the limits or find workarounds to represent something like this

Perhaps a better example would be Amatsu from Portable 3rd, then. Killing it causes its gigantic red hurricane to pretty much instantly vanish and expose the blue sky beyond. Not a matter of technology here, I do think that Kushala just dispersed a glut of stormy black clouds clustered around the mountain peak. As an aside, you can still see unaffected clouds overhead, and both my and Bambu's calc put the dispersed clouds at ~9900 meters in height.

It's not like the series is a stranger to big statements and lore they don't really represent proportionally, in-between Dire Miralis boiling the tainted sea, Dalamadur causing massive earthquakes and warping landscapes by just moving around, Zorah Magdaros' sheer internal energy being enough to melt a continent (and judging by the Guiding Lands having a corpse of one around while it's not a total wasteland, Safi'jiiva absorbing that energy or at least surviving a head on collision from it), meanwhile Fatalis' gigantic flame is 7-C

I think we could draw a distinction between a monster's demonstrated offensive firepower against the likes of a hunter or another monster and the effects they have on the environment to explain that general series precedent. I will say, however, that Zorah dying in the Everstream was the only reason it was going to destroy the continent, and it wouldn't create such a massive destructive blast or whatever should it have died anywhere else, like the ocean or the Rotten Vale (somehow, despite how closer the Vale is to the Everstream). Somehow, Zorah still manages to be awesome and yet lame.

As an aside, how's Rise coming along? Have you made it to Sunbreak yet?

 

[DMUA]

Perhaps a better example would be Amatsu from Portable 3rd, then. Killing it causes its gigantic red hurricane to pretty much instantly vanish and expose the blue sky beyond. Not a matter of technology here, I do think that Kushala just dispersed a glut of stormy black clouds clustered around the mountain peak. As an aside, you can still see unaffected clouds overhead, and both my and Bambu's calc put the dispersed clouds at ~9900 meters in height.

Height in terms of clouds is a bit confusing, you have it's height above the ground, then you have how high it is from top to bottom

the 9900 meter number is the latter, and even then, now that I think about it, aren't both Narankos and Amatsu in one arena with a camp attached to it? That's a lot less strenous to manage than coating an entire map like where Kushala usually is

I think we could draw a distinction between a monster's demonstrated offensive firepower against the likes of a hunter or another monster and the effects they have on the environment to explain that general series precedent.

Kushala in particular does have a bit of showings that they can be precise with their wind manipulation, considering they can form wind armor around themselves to protect against projectiles and blow back hunters, as well as being able to make, move around and combine tornadoes to trap hunters, so it's pretty likely that they're at least somewhat capable of narrowing down their attacks to a specific point

As an aside, how's Rise coming along? Have you made it to Sunbreak yet?

I've been playing it with a bunch of other people (though they're a bit slow and I may just decide to blitz past them and go ahead with all the quests I've got left up to that point), so far I've like, gotten to high rank as of today

I'm kinda surprised how Longsword seems a little bit nerfed from World, all the videos I saw before I got the game made it look like Capcom decided to just say "screw it" and make every counter move free of consequences, but there is a little bit of delay and the hitboxes are genuinely precise enough that I initially had trouble triggering foresight slash on some moves

I also really like Silkbind Sakura Slash and the counter move you start out with but so far the only high rank quest I've done was the Switch Axe Switch skill quest (which was also the first time I used it in Rise, was fairly cool outside of the fact I do not like fighting Lagombi and Khezu kept screaming)

 

[Sigilavox]

Kushala in particular does have a bit of showings that they can be precise with their wind manipulation, considering they can form wind armor around themselves to protect against projectiles and blow back hunters, as well as being able to make, move around and combine tornadoes to trap hunters, so it's pretty likely that they're at least somewhat capable of narrowing down their attacks to a specific point

Fair enough!

I've been playing it with a bunch of other people (though they're a bit slow and I may just decide to blitz past them and go ahead with all the quests I've got left up to that point), so far I've like, gotten to high rank as of today

I'm kinda surprised how Longsword seems a little bit nerfed from World, all the videos I saw before I got the game made it look like Capcom decided to just say "screw it" and make every counter move free of consequences, but there is a little bit of delay and the hitboxes are genuinely precise enough that I initially had trouble triggering foresight slash on some moves

I also really like Silkbind Sakura Slash and the counter move you start out with but so far the only high rank quest I've done was the Switch Axe Switch skill quest (which was also the first time I used it in Rise, was fairly cool outside of the fact I do not like fighting Lagombi and Khezu kept screaming)

Nice. I've played a bit of LS in MR and I do know that Long Sword gets a couple more counters beyond that, the Special Sheathe from World is what I use (the one where you sheathe and then just hit R2 to counter at the right time), idk if that was added in Sunbreak. Most of my LS hunts involve spamming that to maximum shenanigans. To be honest, I forgot Foresight slash existed, lol. While Silkbind Sakura is super good, Tempered Spirit Slash is also a very nice move; you can counter from any angle at the drop of a hat and get an instant level on your spirit gauge.

 

[DMUA]

idk if that was added in Sunbreak.

Sunbreak added the secret sheathe, which is essentially the hardcore version where you have to nail down the timing exactly for sheathing your blade to counter without spending gauge, and you can burn all colors from red to white for a huge attack comparable to a full Greatsword combo

Doesn't look like the easiest thing to use but it's certainly an exciting prospect

 

[Sigilavox]

Sunbreak added the secret sheathe, which is essentially the hardcore version where you have to nail down the timing exactly for sheathing your blade to counter without spending gauge, and you can burn all colors from red to white for a huge attack comparable to a full Greatsword combo

Doesn't look like the easiest thing to use but it's certainly an exciting prospect

I've seen someone do like 2-3k damage with a single use yeah, I agree that it seems nutty if you can get the timing right! Though Special's definitely the way for me, despite the big numbers activating my GS main brain, I do prefer having that constant mobility and flexibility for comparatively less payoff.

 

[Sigilavox]

I made a CRT to uplift large monsters to Class K lifting strength here.

 

[DMUA]

Finally added this, torn on if I should actually calculate sound dodging or just say it's justification for a transonic rating on lower tier monsters and leave it at that

 

[Sigilavox]

Yeah babyy scaling everyone to baseline Building+ that makes things so much simpler for sub-apex monsters rather than having like a baseline (Great Wroggi), mid-tier (Barroth), and Apex (Rathalos) we just have sub-apex and apex. Nice!

 

[DMUA]

Technically the Great Wroggi can't be in the lava caverns (unless I'm completely blanking) but they can definitely smash big rocks like it as well so downscaling probably won't be an issue

On that note, since the giadrones don't really flash-freeze people in their entirety, I feel they should just scale to 9-B off of like, the freedom unite hunter being able to completely tank Tigrex yelling them off a mountain even with no armor

 

[Sigilavox]

Technically the Great Wroggi can't be in the lava caverns (unless I'm completely blanking) but they can definitely smash big rocks like it as well so downscaling probably won't be an issue

On that note, since the giadrones don't really flash-freeze people in their entirety, I feel they should just scale to 9-B off of like, the freedom unite hunter being able to completely tank Tigrex yelling them off a mountain even with no armor

It actually can! You can actually bust a large tower in the Citadel with a few hits or evading a wyvern into it, that might be bigger.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I didn't play any of the games from before MH4U so I'm out of my depth on Unite.

 

[Sigilavox]

As an aside, by looking at how Alatreon’s Fire Escaton Judgement immediately turns the ground molten, I roughly calculated its initial energetic output to be around City level, assuming the ground is limestone. This is the part that doesn’t do damage, but it’s certainly interesting to see.

this is actually a lot more than I had expected so that’s pretty neat lol

 

[DMUA]

Molten would mean it turns into a liquid, so probably not

It would probably be comparable to the sapphire roar, which outright pulverizes the walls of the final arena, at least

 

[Sigilavox]

Molten would mean it turns into a liquid, so probably not

It would probably be comparable to the sapphire roar, which outright pulverizes the walls of the final arena, at least

The ground is straight-up flowing at that point, so liquid or at least lava-like temperature isn’t too far off the mark.

 

[DMUA]

I guess it is now that I look at it again

 

[Sigilavox]

I did a calc for Sapphire of the Emperor a while back, and I think it clocks in at Low 7-C just under the lowball of Fatalis due to breaking twenty ~50m high 10m radius cones of stone in a single blow. When I get home today I’ll link my calcs.

 

[Sigilavox]

Correction: Escaton Judgement (Fire) exerts 571 Kilotons to 5.7 Megatons, which is Large Town level+ to Small City level+. Here is the document (it's a google doc) with various First-Class Monster feats (and a Acidic Glavenus one I did two years ago). There are several more feats than that which I mentioned before, but this is basically the only place you can find substantial Black Dragon gameplay attack feats.

 

[DMUA]

Something I just thought about:

Apexes in Rise are explicitly too strong to be captured, if I remember the statement correctly, and capturing is capable of containing the likes of Rajang, Espinas, Magnamalo and other such monsters, so that would be a solid way to scale them to High 6-C alongside their super high threat level in the hunter's notes

granted the entire prospects of capturing in the lore are like, weird (Gore Magala is viable to capture despite actively spewing a very dangerous pathogen, Elder Dragons are still something I'm thinking about giving an unconventional resistance to sealing because no type of traps are able to work on them, including natural stuff like the Grimakalyne's nets and the vine traps that appear when you knock a tree over) but it is something I figured I should bring up

 

[Sigilavox]

Something I just thought about:

Apexes in Rise are explicitly too strong to be captured, if I remember the statement correctly, and capturing is capable of containing the likes of Rajang, Espinas, Magnamalo and other such monsters, so that would be a solid way to scale them to High 6-C alongside their super high threat level in the hunter's notes

granted the entire prospects of capturing in the lore are like, weird (Gore Magala is viable to capture despite actively spewing a very dangerous pathogen, Elder Dragons are still something I'm thinking about giving an unconventional resistance to sealing because no type of traps are able to work on them, including natural stuff like the Grimakalyne's nets and the vine traps that appear when you knock a tree over) but it is something I figured I should bring up

Capturing has never been a power thing imo. You can’t capture Kirin but you can capture Furious, Raging Brachy and Savage Jho. Apexes can lead hordes that contain Bazelgeuse and Rajang as regular threats, though, so there’s that.

 

[DMUA]

Not inherently but the Apexes do directly refer to power as to why they can't be captured, which would make them stronger than what can be captured, at least in Rise

 

[Sigilavox]

Not inherently but the Apexes do directly refer to power as to why they can't be captured, which would make them stronger than what can be captured, at least in Rise

I don't remember this statement, and it's not on the wiki or the official website. Where is it?

Edit: The only dialogue referencing an Apex in the entirety of Rise never says anything to this effect. It was most likely from a fan source.

 

[DMUA]

It's in one of the tutorials explaining Apexes, but I might be mixing that up with Anomaly monsters, so I'd have to boot up the game and check

 

[Sigilavox]

It's in one of the tutorials explaining Apexes, but I might be mixing that up with Anomaly monsters, so I'd have to boot up the game and check

Please do. It's nowhere in the database of Hunter's Info in-game tutorials, though, so I'm not sure where you could find it. Afflicted Monsters just say "cannot be captured" with zero elaboration. It's likely a similar case, especially since Apexes were originally not even available to fight normally and Rampage-exclusive. It's most likely that they never coded in Apex-trap interactions like normal monsters due to being rampage exclusive threats, until later updates made them generally available.

That said, "Major Threats" are said to be stronger than "normal monsters" and can be literally any monster, Apex included, while those same quests can have Bazelgeuse and Rajang as normal monsters. So, if you wanted, there's some scaling. Also, this provides even more evidence for the tier variability of regular monster species!

 

[DMUA]

Well add that to the list of things that just got made up in someone's head for Apexes being super strong cause I checked and yeah, nothing

The threat levels in the hunter's notes still probably hold water, alongside your mention of them coraling Rampages with Rajangs and Bazelgeuses in tow

 

[Sigilavox]

While I think the rampage point is good, I will say Rise/Sunbreak's specific Threat Level system is hugely iffy in terms of powerscaling. They're maybe supporting statements at best. It treats monsters on the same level as each other as having widely varying Threat Levels and puts monsters with hugely varying power on the same threat level.

For starters, Tigrex, Almudron, Goss Harag, Rakna-Kadaki, Seregios, and Lunagaron all have the exact same Threat Level as Espinas and Magnamalo at 7 stars, while Rajang and Bazelgeuse tie with the latter despite being a star above at 8 stars with the other regular elder dragons.

Strangely, Daimyo Hermitaur is treated as 5 stars in terms of threat level, which is higher than Rathian (4 stars), a monster that is a whole two Afflicted ranks higher and an entire quest level above the crab. Tobi-Kadachi has a 5-star threat level, putting it at the same tier as Barioth, and again, above Rathian. Anjanath also loses to Rathian in a turf war but is 2 stars above the latter at 6 stars, a rank it shares with Blood Orange Bishaten. Tetranodon, who can briefly stalemate Goss Harag in a physical challenge is 2 stars, putting it below Royal Ludroth by 1 star and Pukei-Pukei by 2 stars.

And there's also Chaotic Gore Magala, which is stated to have the "power" of a Gore Magala, and yet has a 10-star threat level above Shagaru, Malzeno, Wind Serpent Ibushi, and the like. This would make sense if it wasn't power, but rather how threatning it would be to people and villages; it has raw aggression, a presumed lack of self-preservation, and willingness to attack anything, all originating from its constant internal pain which puts it in a similar boat to Crimson Glow Valstrax. This is from the original website:

Gore Magala that have fallen into chaos, having been denied their evolution into Shagaru Magala. They maintain their original power, while possessing the potential of Shagaru Magala, making them incredibly unstable.

I think Threat Level is better left as a "this thing is dangerous to villages" level or something of the sort, rather than a metric by which we can scale things.

 

[Sigilavox]

Interesting in-game statement: This quest description pretty flat-out says that Tetranodon and Goss Harag can just duke it out with each other. If this is fair, then it follows that Tetranodon scales to apex monsters such as Goss Harag and that lower-tier monsters may be excluded from scaling to its lifting strength.

 

[DMUA]

It doesn't really give much details on how that fight is going, just that Tetranodon is lasting awhile

Goss Harag is definitely stronger than them so this may just be them having particularly high stamina or just being hard to damage than just being as strong as someone who could pretty easily overpower them in any outright encounter we see

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Yeah threat level while a decent metric for the player in terms of difficulty, it really shouldn't be applied in terms of actual canon or scaling (E.g: In GU Amastu has the same threat level as Alatreon and Shagaru Magala is one threat level lower than the classic ED trio)

 

[Sigilavox]

Goss Harag is definitely stronger than them so this may just be them having particularly high stamina or just being hard to damage than just being as strong as someone who could pretty easily overpower them in any outright encounter we see

Wouldn't "being hard to damage" mean Tetranodon's durability scales, then? It's not like the person is describing Tetranodon as running from Goss and getting beat up all the while, it's flatly described as "going at it" for a while and just now it seems to be getting worse. That's not the description of one monster getting totally overwhelmed, that's, like, they have been fighting back and forth, and now the fight is escalating. The phrasing here:

"These two monsters have been going at it for a while now and it seems to be getting worse."

Is very clearly not a Tetranodon who got dumpster'd after one hit or a single exchange, but one who's taking blow after blow from Goss. It's a lot simpler to not stack on circumstantial assumptions in order to justify the other end here, I think.

Also, what's the reason we're intended to use the blanket ability to destroy terrain from Wyvern Riding but not the ability for any monster to damage any other via Wyvern Riding for the purposes of scaling monster AP? In terms of gameplay mechanics, it's pretty clear that you wouldn't be able to smoothly traverse quite a few parts of the map without having the ability to damage objects using wyvern controls, since there are several places monster models cannot fit through while running around in mounted mode without destroying the nearby terrain, i.e. the Shrine Ruins eastern corridor or the Flooded Forest's underground pool.

On the other hand, all monsters just innately have the ability to deal pretty damn high damage to and flinch each other- even normally, without Wyvern Riding, such as a Blood Orange Bishaten on a Bazelgeuse - with specific damage values reserved for attacking monsters rather than players being hardcoded into the game. This isn't a situation where one monster is bypassing durability via blighting or poisoning its target, it's straight-up intended that monsters can hit and take blows from each other as a core aspect of the world. Monsters can actively damage and even land killing blows on other monsters. It happens all the time when wyvern riding.

 

[DMUA]

Wouldn't "being hard to damage" mean Tetranodon's durability scales, then? It's not like the person is describing Tetranodon as running from Goss and getting beat up all the while, it's flatly described as "going at it" for a while and just now it seems to be getting worse. That's not the description of one monster getting totally overwhelmed, that's, like, they have been fighting back and forth, and now the fight is escalating.

Yeah, I'd figure that, if there really is an alternative to them just being weirdly strong for a monster you fight early on (granted, I'm also not remembering why Goss scales that high anyhow)

 

[Sigilavox]

Yeah, I'd figure that, if there really is an alternative to them just being weirdly strong for a monster you fight early on (granted, I'm also not remembering why Goss scales that high anyhow)

Goss has no turf wars with other monsters but is considered by quest rank to be equivalent to Tigrex and Diablos due to appearing at the exact same time and after the likes of Zinogre and Rathalos in Rise's story quest progression (incidentally, it's canonically locked until after the hunter defeats Magnamalo, which pre-DLC rise treats as an apex-level monster through quest rank, story placement, and number of carves). This is not inconsistent with its placement alongside Nargacuga and Barioth and after Anjanath, in Sunbreak's quest progression. Overall, the game certainly considers Goss to be an apex-level monster.

 

[Sigilavox]

Also, here are images that support the idea that Major Threats outscale the likes of Rajang or Bazelgeuse:

 

[DMUA]

incidentally, it's canonically locked until after the hunter defeats Magnamalo, which pre-DLC rise treats as an apex-level monster through quest rank, story placement, and number of carves

Rajang does also have 3 carves in Rise but yeah

The turtle is just weirdly strong I suppose

 

[Sigilavox]

To bring up the topic of Dalamadur, this is 4U's leading dialogue and lore around it. It seems to be associated with changing the very landscape by moving around on it, with its bladed serpentine body and all. Coupled with item descriptions and BannedLagiacrus's relatively reliable lore book translations, this is all the canon information we have on Dalamadur.

Noteworthy is a statement from the Guildmaster:

"...a single twist of its torso carved valleys from mountains."

This is not taken from a fairy tale but is directly said by the Guild team who barely escaped an encounter with it; Dalamadur is at the very least capable of physically rending mountains. It could also seemingly shift the terrain just by roaring, which also might imply Earth Manipulation.

Also noteworthy is from BannedLagiacrus's tweet chain:

"Dalamadur's second ability is a mysterious element that it produces inside of its body. Dalamadur doesn't use any of the known ones (Fire, Water, Thunder, Ice, Dragon), rather it uses something else entirely."

Apparently, its shining blue breath isn't even fire or dragon element, and something unknown to the Monster Hunter world. Oddly specific and never elaborated on, it's quite an interesting factoid. Coupled with its ability to seemingly conjure meteoroids (called "shattered omens") from beyond the clouds, and I'm starting to think Dalamadur is more of an extraterrestrial/cosmic monster than it might initially appear. Just like Teostra represent wildfires and Valstrax are shooting stars, this thing is pretty much Monster Hunter's answer to tectonic shifts and various other cosmogonic elements.

On that note, I do wish they doubled down more on the terrestrial, landscape-shaping aspect of it rather than also throwing in its space breath and the meteor thing, but it's definitely a cinematic collection of abilities and I'm not really upset about it.

Now, we use the statement from the item "Dalamadur Tail Shell" for our justification of Dalamadur's globe-shaking AP (Small Country level), which is below.

The shell of a lash-like tail that shakes heaven and the human world alike.

Even putting down my skepticism of using item descriptions as chief feats or sources of scaling, I don't believe that this implies that it necessarily shakes the entire world at once - in fact, the previous descriptions of it and all indications thus far are directed more toward shaping the landscape in a limited range around where it moves and causing earthquakes in the regions where it dwells. Sure, shattering the land to the horizon is consistent with its descriptions in the world but affecting the entire earth on a global scale at a single time is not.

The word "alike" can be interpreted as "at the same time" (which supports the earth-shaking feat) but is more often akin to "in similar fashion", after all; sure, it can hold sway over the movements of the land and the forces of heaven, but even the Guild wasn't worried about planetary action, just that it could easily destroy the villages and cities where it might choose to go, in particular Dundorma (evidence it scales to or above Kushala Daora, at least). Such behavior could still result in the destruction of life as they knew it, after all.

What are your folks' impressions and thoughts on Dalamadur and its place in this verse? As for me, I used to find it rather generic for a Monster Hunter elder dragon - gigantic snake, seen that before - but recently I've come to appreciate its quirks and themes more. The cosmic element is most intriguing. I look forward to facing it greatly in my playthrough of 4 Ultimate, and its Great Sword looks absolutely divine.

 

[DMUA]

Yeah, makes sense

I've brought up a few times that I wasn't really that sure about using the Dalamadur feat and it doesn't really have any support so we may as well get rid of it

Should only really mess with his and Gozmazios' tiering at least, since Xeno surviving Zorah Magdaros' explosion does seem to be a genuine thing on account of the skeleton we find in the guiding lands

 

[Sigilavox]

What about the Guiding Lands Zorah skeleton? The Guiding Lands and its formations do not have anything to do with Xeno'jiiva itself (in fact, according to the Iceborne book, World's Xeno'jiiva is in-universe theorized to have been an offspring of the Guiding Lands Safi, implying that it just grew faster than its siblings due to being in the Confluence of Fates rather than a single island), and even the Safi'jiiva was only a beneficiary, not the creator, of that locale.

The death of a Zorah is said to take thousands of years to create new locales, and the ensuing explosion was really an abnormality only due to the specific location of that gestating Xeno'jiiva (the center of all Everstream activity in the entire New World) and that specific Zorah (particularly old, large, and strong among its kind). If Zorah just died in the Vale, the Commission wouldn't have freaked out. It's likely that, even if Safi'jiiva was present for the death of the Guiding Lands' Zorah (which is unlikely), it wouldn't have created such an explosion and that this is not expected behavior for Zorah that are lured by the Jiiva species.

 

[DMUA]

World's Xeno'jiiva is in-universe theorized to have been an offspring of the Guiding Lands Safi

Is there no like, transcript for what this says?

The death of a Zorah is said to take thousands of years to create new locales, and the ensuing explosion was really an abnormality only due to the specific location of that gestating Xeno'jiiva (the center of all Everstream activity in the entire New World) and that specific Zorah (particularly old, large, and strong among its kind). If Zorah just died in the Vale, the Commission wouldn't have freaked out. It's likely that, even if Safi'jiiva was present for the death of the Guiding Lands' Zorah (which is unlikely), it wouldn't have created such an explosion and that this is not expected behavior for Zorah that are lured by the Jiiva species.

Yeah, but this also mentions that Xeno'jiiva is calling Zorah there. It wouldn't make sense to draw them away from dying in the Rotten Vale if they would have just vaporized the moment Zorah died, so this seems more like reinforcement of the idea (even if clarifying the situation and correcting some details)