Mogar (D&D Homebrew) vs Kirito (SAO:TTRPG)

[DMUA]

Oh

Either way, Mogar literally has to make one action against Kirito and he bails

Kirito can't even oneshot back with Final Burst or an omegablitz, he just kinda does a single thing and GG

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's not a stomp. A single action victory is valid and Kirito does have an in-theory win-con.

 

[DMUA]

Mogar speed amps immediately then takes a single offensive action that makes Kirito need brown pants

If he tries to activate a sword skill it'll just be blocked by the guy with similar or greater speed and vastly more experience and the instant Mogar makes a move to counter Kirito wants to run for the hills

Where is the room for winning exactly?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If Mogar didn't speed amp, Kirito would roflblitz. Even now, Kirito can feasibly kill Mogar by breaking his sword. Mogar sadly does not carry an extra sword nowadays since every time he does it gets ******* broke

Kirito has a rare win con. It isn't a case of instant loss. Kirito has to get within immensely close range before fearhax works, the fearhax mostly just temporarily incaps an enemy, and Kirito does have an AP advantage (albeit how much of one is unknown).

Kirito isn't getting stomped.

 

[DMUA]

"If Mogar got PISd into not using the move he immediately uses in character Kirito can win"

..... Riiigggghhhtttttt

I'll have to ugh

no

Even assuming Mogar gets PISd, after he gets done slashing him in half with a sword skill, Mogar just ressurects and then makes a single swing. If Kirito tries to null ressurection, he gets no u'd. There is literally nothing he has that will really take him down before Mogar literally just loosely attempts to hit him

Also pretty sure considering that gaps between levels can be absolutely massive in D&D (IE: A level 7 is thousands of times superior to a Level 1), an "At least 7-B" is very much so warranted.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No, I'm saying that the speed amp you're using as an argument for Mogar stomping only really equalizes the playing field. It allows Mogar to counter Kirito's pretty stupid speed amp.

Mogar's single swing is entirely chance based. His one-shot is 25% and all the Intimidation does is essentially make Kirito docile for a few minutes.

Mogar isn't 7x the level of the character that did the 7-B feat. He is far superior, but he has no showing of being a higher tier yet, but that won't apply to this key

Kirito:

• Can break weapons

• Way better regen

• Pretty large AP advantage

• Sword Skills allow for stunning

Mogar:

• Resurrection

• Fear hax to temporarily incap

• Easily more experience

• Can deflect projectiles and attacks

• 25% chance to immediately decapitate an opponent

Verdict:

Mogar probably does win now that I've looked at Kirito. But this isn't a stomp. Mogar's hax is short-range (gotta be able to see him) and doesn't instant incap, just puts Kirito out of commission briefly. In what world is this a stomp.

Just for the sake of closing this, I'll commit to the cruddy route and vote.

 

[DMUA]

It equalizes the playing field on speed which allows Mogar to end the fight with literally one offensive gesture which is definitely not equal in favor of Kirito. Kirito doesn't resist it in any way and Mogar can overpower resistances easily. It's not like he's going to just return to the battlefield after he immediately wants to self BFR, that wouldn't make any sense and it wouldn't be in any way in character for the overconfident, semi abridged Kirito.

Again the OHK probably doesn't work due to how wounds in SAO are but Idunno

Far Superior seems to be a key term. Not that it matters anyways considering the following

Kirito:

• Can break weapons with a skill that he never really immediately uses and will never get the chance to use because Mogar can fearhax him and gg no re
• Way better Regen which doesn't counter fearhax
• Pretty Large AP Advantage that doesn't matter even if Kirito can get a hit on him because he has 9 lives to work with
• Stunning Sword Skills he has never opened with... then again I don't think he really 100% opens up with anything. Not even dual blades, he sticks to one most of the time.

Mogar:

• Can end the fight by pointing at Kirito
• Can say no u to his AP advantage with probably isn't even enough to oneshot considering scaling trains
• Can no u the no uing of his counter to AP
• Can maybe or maybe not instantly decaptitate him but doesn't matter because Kirito gets instaspooked

Conclusion

Kirito gets Chuck Norrised. Mogar having only short range hardly means squat because Kirito also only has short range with everything save Sonic Leap which only closes the distance and doesn't let him keep 4 KM away

Kirito runs for the hills and Mogar goes to get a drink or something, I seriously do not see the room for Kirito to not self BFR

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Kirito has ranged attacks in the form of darts which, granted, Mogar can deflect but he can also miss.

He isn't getting stomped.

 

[DMUA]

He never abuses range, that's massively out of character for someone who stars in a series with a melee weapon literally in the title

... to be honest I should probably see to it about having wincons via acting massively out of character being invalid as per what is and isn't a stomp, cause, Weekly's kinda against that and I think Weekly's kinda onto something

That's for not now

Either way, the Darts don't even do that much damage. The little damage are in forms that would get negged by DnD's signature R E S I S T A L L Y O H A X

And Mogar can just

not sit there twiddling his thumbs as Kirito rangespams, rather, just advance on the sucker.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's different from what you're saying on other threads.

 

[DMUA]

On other threads he isn't range spamming, he's using his darts to get around an ability that makes it almost impossible to win otherwise. Control+F Spam says as much at least.

Well, okay, yeah, it kinda is spamming with how many times he'd have to go for it, but he has an actual reason to spam in those threads. He doesn't have a reason to just spam away here.

I've never argued for the damage they've dealt, rather, their hax capacities. They do kinda trash damage compared to what he does normally considering he has a low range skill. Still in 7-B range, but, definetly not 99.9999999 megatons.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So he's acting out of character to achieve a win-con. In fact, he's using knowledge to do that.

Do you see the irony there.

 

[DMUA]

Kirito doesn't instantly get BFRd by himself in those threads, he has a chance to fight and figure out his opponents. It's not out of character for him to get crafty and find new ways to approach the situation. He's using the knowledge he actually has the chance to get in a fight.

Meanwhile Mogar spooks gg

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So let me bring two quotes together for you, that you've said.

He never abuses range, that's massively out of character for someone who stars in a series with a melee weapon literally in the title ... to be honest I should probably see to it about having wincons via acting massively out of character being invalid as per what is and isn't a stomp, cause, Weekly's kinda against that and I think Weekly's kinda onto something
	~ DMUA​

Kirito doesn't instantly get BFRd by himself in those threads, he has a chance to fight and figure out his opponents. It's not out of character for him to get crafty and find new ways to approach the situation. He's using the knowledge he actually has the chance to get in a fight.
	~ DMUA​

You've told me it is hugely out of character for Kirito to abuse range, yet used that as the crux of your argument on other threads, to spam darts he doesn't use. You then go on to say that win conditions that are so out of character are invalid. You THEN FURTHER GO ON TO SAY that the exact opposite is true and that special cases should be made... why? He has a win condition that is extremely out of character, exactly like those other threads. The only difference is your calling stomp here and arguing for Kirito's win there.

 

[DMUA]

In other threads he has a chance to realize "Oh wait I need to approach this differently" and could actually have the capacity to do something different then what he does normally. In other threads he doesn't try to keep distance, in fact, I'd like to think I was leaving the implication that he'd maintain a close range so as to have a better chance to hit. He's not abusing a rangegame, he's abusing darts to get around something.

The matter of the ordeal is fightlength

With Ethan he has the chance to try and observe and hit him with darts to beat him up

With Athanatos he has a chance to observe his OP regen and see to it it's negated

With Mogar he just gets spooked and gg

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Assuming Kirito is the same Kirito that I remember, that'd also be pretty out of character, being the headstrong little shit that he is (Gleam Eyes).

This isn't a stomp because Mogar has fearhax. This is what we call a conclusive win.

 

[DMUA]

He's not really headstrong, and he's definitely not dumb enough to keep doing something that doesn't work. For instance he used an oversized item to clip out of Oblivion's chains as opposed to try to get into a Lifting Strength fight with Gergy. You've got to remember, this isn't quite the canon Kirito. It details as such on his profile. It's progressive+abridged where he's

you know

an actual character instead of a block of wood who can dual wield

Except

A stomp is when someone absolutely cannot win

How does Kirito plan on winning when literally a single offensive action on Mogar's part leads to self BFR, and Kirito killing him once does not lead to him actually being killed

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Few things.

1. Mogar's fearhax isn't instant win. It causes fear effects briefly, which gives Mogar a chance to bridge AP gap. It causes enemies to flee or remain docile for a short while.

2. It isn't passive, and requires actions from Mogar.

3. Kirito has darts he can use (albeit out of character to do so), which is exactly your argument on other threads.

 

[DMUA]

It isn't an instant win against people who actually have resistance, meanwhile Kirito resists a weaksauce varient and is generally not a DND character

Cool but those actions are still trivial and there's nothing Kirito can really do to stop him from doing them

It's out of character to immediately pull it out and start abusing range, not out of character to be an intelligent human being and try something else if one thing isn't working

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If character A in character instant mindhaxes the other character, that is considered valid

Mogar not only has no capacity to instantly do so, but has a weak variant of this ability

In what world is this a stomp

 

[DMUA]

It's considered valid when B actually has a quick hax to deal with them and doesn't get no ud

Kirito gets no ud and has no really good gg tier hax

Though, perhaps I misunderstand Mogar's capacities

If it's just Kirito freezing in place, it's still him not being able to do squat as Mogar can literally just hit him until he stops moving as Kirito has to sit there and do nothing.

Literally his win condition is that Mogar decides to stand there reading a book as Kirito tears away at 9 resurrections

Which of course is outright ludicrious

 

[Mr. Bambu]

His win condition exists. Mogar's fearhax isn't a "gg" tier hax, just good for temporarily incapping. Just saying. This isn't a stomp.

 

[DMUA]

His win condition is Mogar standing there and making absolutely no offensive action whatsoever

It's not a matter of self BFR but there's literally nothing stopping Mogar from continuing to hit him and apply the effect after he's frozen

Massive PIS should not dictate whether or not something is a stomp

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Grace is ending, but some time ago Kirito was made victorylusted to allow him to act out of character since apparently he will not do so here but will in other threads.

 

[DMUA]

Again

This thread: Mogar literally points towards Kirito and he's basically stunlocked gg

Other threads: Kirito goes in, has a fight, gets Blitzed/Outregened/Something else and realizes he has to not be dumb, thereby, he'll use his stuff

There's a difference

If you're gonna add it, meh, oh well, but I vastly disagree

 

[Smashtwig]

They both lose because neither have Blade Beams

 

[DMUA]

Wait

Never noticed the change in the OP

Pretty sure that ultimately doesn't mean squat considering that his darts are nigh useless and really he'd be more likely to self BFR because why would he even bother

Or Mogar can just

Not stand still and move in to stunlock

Still not really fair but

 

[Xmark12]

idk, Morgar FRA.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Alright so DMUA claims that Kirito negs fearhax now so this is still active. Two questions exist.

1. Is SAO fear hax as good as D&D fearhax (I suspect not, but first SAO has to make its case)

2. Is this enough to tip scales in Kirito's favor, considering Mogar has a forcefield and 25% chance to instant kill, whereas Kirito has to tear through nine extra lives to defeat Mogar.

I still vote Mogar, as even without Fearhax he has survavability and a legitimate method of victory, but I'd like other people to quicken this up.

funny how that resistance is mentioned after the thread was finished but still

 

[Uninown]

Okay. So i read a bit of this thread and it seems DMUA says that D&D character has a fearhax that would godstomp kirito. How does it work? Bambu talked to and it seems it just makes a person run away in several directions or make a person freeze of fear in a place, this last makes me remember to Anikitos visual fearhax.

But, is it passive? Does it needs something to get applicated (like Anikitos needs to make direct eye contact with a person to apply the fearhax)? Is there any other details?

Also, if you want talk about SAO's resistance level of fearhax, you can talk it to me. It was my character who was able to do that.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The fear hax in question triggers upon Mogar taking hostile actions against the given target. Drawing a weapon or attacking are included in this- that said it isn't a passive thing of his existence, he does need to take actions to use that hax. It does not require eye contact, just that you can sense Mogar.

Also I did talk to you about the potency of it, but I should note Mogar's most notable feat with his fearhax was in a minor battle in the Azure Sea during Vaeru's war, wherein over a hundred creatures froze in place when Mogar began fighting their leader (was used to allow others to essentially slaughter them).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Just posting for safety.

 

[DMUA]

1. Is SAO fear hax as good as D&D fearhax (I suspect not, but first SAO has to make its case)

I'd say it's about as Medicore considering both have big upscaling and both are rather minor in effect (Mogar freezes fools in place and Ehecol can make people do less damage to higher HP opponents and force them to only dodge as per defense)

Also, I don't think fearhax scale really gets higher with more effected kinda like Type 4 (or I guess 3 now) Madness manipulation.

It's not quite putting a multitude of consious beings under your whims, which is usually shown to be harder as that's more free will you have to suppress, it's just doing something they're scared of. Scaring a dude with something shouldn't be any easier then scaring multiple people.

There is the possibility of Kirito regenerating from decapitation before Incap time runs out. Gergy (SAO:TTRPG) was able to regenerate his entire lower body via Powernap within an hour or so, so Kirito possibly could do the same if he waited a bit longer.

Not to mention, considering Kirito is "At least City level+" and Mogar is "City level", those forcefields won't help all that much. Of course ressurection and Kirito's darts getting no ud would help

... That said is there even a point to restricting final burst? Yes it instakills but it won't end the fight here and has a 26 Minute long cooldown before Kirito can pull it again.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

With supernatural fear? If you say so. So in that regard, how far up does the scaling go? Mogar's own fearhax upscales tremendously from the base tiers of the verse.

And... okay, but what do you mean? Have they regenerated from decapitation before and if so how long did it take?

And yeah, Kirito does have the AP advantage via the +, but they tank a hit and regen back.

 

[DMUA]

Well, a Magic skill of 10-20 has the skill and can use it, and I guess thereby, basically anyone can resist it.

Kirito has a Magic Skill of 200

Considering they gap between 10-20 is Street to Wall level and 200 is City level+

Yeah

It's a possibility. Gergy only regenerated from Bisection, but it shows that

Yeah I dunno where I was going with that it just straight up ain't a thing for them to regenerate from Decapitation

Then again Regen Negation says no u anyways I guess

Regen is only Mid-Low, it's not going to help that much against Kirito slashing through his vitals as per usual (considering type 2 makes sure he wouldn't have to worry about killing them)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Mogar regenning isn't the issue. Resurrecting nine times after his first death is.

Looking at it mathematically. Even assuming we disregard wiki standards of needing to deal with forcefields with a separate hit (thus making Mogar a two-shot kill), Kirito doesn't regen from Decap.

1/4 hits of Mogars will win him the fight.

Kirito needs 10 hits on Mogar.

Mogar will incap Kirito faster in most cases.

 

[DMUA]

1/4 Hits would win

If he still had his sword and Kirito didn't just use Seven Deadly Sins to quickly dispose of it

Which he'd of course immediately use cause now I can flip you trying to get Mogar a win on it's head to say Kirito will immediately Seven Deadly Sins him and dispose of his wincon immediately and dole him out enough hits to take out 6 of his lives... well, the latter assumes his Resurrection is immediate and his forcefield creation isn't and thereby is under optimal conditions for Kirito to completely blow it out of the water

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Resurrection is immediate, as per the normal item Ring of Nine Lives, and the forcefield is constant. Not to mention Mogar can still decap with his bare hands (don't ask how, just how the ability works), just with less of a chance to do so.

This also assumes Kirito constantly guns for the sword before any other avenue of attack.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Even with the new agreements I still side with Mogar FRA.

 

[Smashtwig]

So Mogar deflects Kirito's darts, so that's Kiri (imo) trump card outta here. All Kiri has left is sanic sword, and seems like according to the thread, Mogar can deal with that too

Mogar FRA?