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he resist something like type 2 not type 1 by featArgument seems legit so I agree with everything.
Does this mean he loses his CM 1 resistance too?
that's why tier 2-B staysRimuru's Beelzebuth can literally swallow the entire universe.
Veldora could passively prevent a machine that produces endless negative energy which also would destroy the universe.
And yes.
Veldanava created the multiverse
When he created the world.
It birthed to the multiverse containing several parallel universes which each one having slight differences allowing them to evolve differently
Why would turn null cease to be type 1? Is it because the destruction/death of the great spirits≠ destruction of the universe?that's why tier 2-B stays
although turn null isn't type 1 conceptual manipulation its type 2
He insists that turn null didn't gave birth to great spirits which gave birth to the world.Why would turn null cease to be type 1? Is it because the destruction/death of the great spirits≠ destruction of the universe?
because the concept of time and space controlled by turn null energy is dependent on great spirits which are from the holy spirit who is the source of all things.Why would turn null cease to be type 1? Is it because the destruction/death of the great spirits≠ destruction of the universe?
uhm no? Ur implying that they are a double-layered concept which is not true as the great spirit is the concept itself which turn null createdbecause the concept of time and space controlled by turn null energy is dependent on great spirits which are from the holy spirit who is the source of all things.
they are chapter 401uhm no? Ur implying that they are a double-layered concept which is not true as the great spirit is the concept itself which turn null created
they are chapter 401
universe concept of time= turn null energy
because concept of time=growth rate of space as well which flows with energy which should be turn null
the idea of time for each universe and the great spirits which holds the concept of time for the multiverse itself is another thing
So are u debunking his cm1 too? This is literally so low balled which was accepted by the admins for so long alreadythey are chapter 401
universe concept of time= turn null energy
because concept of time=growth rate of space as well which flows with energy which should be turn null
the idea of time for each universe and the great spirits which holds the concept of time for the multiverse itself is another thing
I cannot understand if your joking.Starfieldway, didn't you say that the big bang/Holy Spirit created the world then veldanava and primordial energy were born after the big bang? That Veldanava only made the rules for the world? If this is true, then Great Spirits are only universal concepts, because they created and embodied concepts of only one universe.
Great Spirits are also energy beings, so like you said with turnnull Primordial Energy, they can't be abstract things such as concepts. I agree with your statement that concepts and Great Spirits are different, because truly concepts > Great Spirits.
If Veldanava didn't create the universe, then the "worlds' he created after the big bang could only be planets. Therefore, remove 2b from Rimuru. Mobius System only guarantees 2c. Let's also forget about the illogical assumption that somehow Veldora and others became 2c characters while the strongest being previously, Veldanava, was only planetary.
I agree with everything. Remove NEP, conceptual manipulation, and 2b tier from Rimuru.
Alone in that space of nothingness, he had endured his solitude-248
He had been bored in the world of nothingness-248
huh? This is just a vast world with nothing, but, did she say ‘End of Space-time’? Indeed, time does not flow and is suspended here. And I cannot detect the spreading of space either…
The word nothingness has been repeatedly used and some questions come into call. If the Great Spirtits and “Reality”, the primordial energies and the concepts were already born then what nothingness was veldanava talking about.Yes. The flow of time has stopped in this world. And the spread of space has also ended, and has become nothingness according to the laws of entropy-248
you posted the scan yourselfI cannot understand if your joking.
First not that I agree but Starfeldaway is saying that Great Holy Spirit created “reality” and that Veldanava created the multiverse.
Think like he’s saying that the Holy Spirit existed where none of this was. The HS created the other GS and they all together created “paper” which the verse is written on. Veldanava created the words which is the Verse and allows for the story, characters, and the universe to exist.
No paper then everything is gone, no words and the paper still exist. That’s what he’s saying.
He’s also saying that the end of time space isn’t a void of nothingness but the end of the multiverse while “reality” still exist.
Therefore neither veldanava nor rimuru ever existed without the Duality’s and so they aren’t superior to them.
You do understand that the mobis system feat which is uni-uni+ was compared to Beelzebub which Yuuki has.
Mobis=2c and Beelzebub=Mobis meaning beelzebub is is at least Uni. Yuuki has access tothis and he doesn’t even have access to all of veldanavas power.
So are you seriously trying to say that Yuuki with half of Veldanavas max energy can have higher output with a king class skill that Veldanava the god who had more power then him. Your trying to say that Veldanava with 10,000 planets is above Yuuki with a uni destroying attack.
Not to mention just him your saying that Guy, TD rimuru and others outscale Veldanava.
Also what do you have to say about the other dimensions which have their own Universes. Or the fact that Yuuki destroyed the space-time continuum? Yeah Tensura really caps at 10,000 planets.
Back to Starfeldaways point I don’t agree. I believe Fuse changed it not only due to the time difference between his post and the story ending but due to the last chapters which came out after that response from Fuse.
The word nothingness has been repeatedly used and some questions come into call. If the Great Spirtits and “Reality”, the primordial energies and the concepts were already born then what nothingness was veldanava talking about.
Also rimuru does refer to the end of time and space as a world of nothingness which fits the previous bill since if the universe is gone but reality still exist then he should be able to perceive that and so it wouldn’t be nothingness.
This ain’t even talking about how if your trying to downgrade the Gs to type 2 then he quite literally has to have the ability to create some of them. Since if time and space have ended then the GS of Sky and Time would be gone but he can create a world with time and space so he’s have to at least be able to create those two.
That’s also without me asking more questions. Why is time and space gone? If their type 1 concepts and Yuuki can’t interact or deal with them then how did time and space just magically end? If their type 2 then the GS that govern over them have to be gone and if their type 1 then why is information bound to time? How did all information and existence become destroyed?
It’s much more reasonable to go with our previous findings. Fuse as he is an author changed his mind. The place Rimuru was BFR’d to was when the Great Spirts were gone and it is indeed a void.
So I disagree with the TD downgrade as well as the proposed AP downgrade by members of the thread.
First not that I agree but Starfeldaway is saying that Great Holy Spirit created “reality” and that Veldanava created the multiverse.
Think like he’s saying that the Holy Spirit existed where none of this was. The HS created the other GS and they all together created “paper” which the verse is written on. Veldanava created the words which is the Verse and allows for the story, characters, and the universe to exist.
-author Confirms veldanava isn't holy spirit>he said Holy spirit is big bang, veldanava arose after the big bang, so he doesn't show any superiority over great spirits in this case
-you guys arguments are veldanava created the world along with the great spirits which was never said>never ever
-and I showed you turn null is a condensed energy that was swirling in the primordial world which veldanava uses to maintain and create worlds, turn null as the name imply is just energy which birthed life and control the flow of space and time
I wonder where you got multiverse from all these, because the only thing that can be concluded is a universe:the world itself uses energy- turn null to regulate time and space to flow effectively so ones that energy loses its power to expand further the concept of both time and space-spread of space here means matter either ways as a voided space still waits for you
it's simply called heat death thast why the author directly said
You do understand that the mobis system feat which is uni-uni+ was compared to Beelzebub which Yuuki has.
Mobis=2c and Beelzebub=Mobis meaning beelzebub is is at least Uni. Yuuki has access tothis and he doesn’t even have access to all of veldanavas power.
So are you seriously trying to say that Yuuki with half of Veldanavas max energy can have higher output with a king class skill that Veldanava the god who had more power then him. Your trying to say that Veldanava with 10,000 planets is above Yuuki with a uni destroying attack.
If you actually read the after stories, you would realize that the mobius system is comparable to Beelzebub (and Gluttony) because it is fueled by two black holes, devouring surrounding energy and empowering itself. This is an overtime environmental destruction, not an actual ap feat.Also what do you have to say about the other dimensions which have their own Universes. Or the fact that Yuuki destroyed the space-time continuum? Yeah Tensura really caps at 10,000 planets.
I was, but now I want to actually downgrade them, because this is a reasonable downgrade. Fuse loves sci-fi and loves to talk about energy. However even I feel like Fuse may have changed his mind after seeing the overly fictious abilities he had created.I cannot understand if your joking.
Their is no distinction or difference between Reality and the Universe that’s your head cannon.you posted the scan yourself
yuuki don't have the power to send him to a future where there's no reality, ciel who is trusted said "according to the law of entropy" this is just the universe losing energy and mind you it's not the multiverse bro
it's just 1 universe end of time he met
First off if we’re going off if what Starfeldaway said then as I provided with my analogy the HS created reality not the uni.I wonder where you got multiverse from all these, because the only thing that can be concluded is a universe:
Holy Spirit that created everything is the big bang (one universe)
Great Spirits create the world (one universe)
turn null use is to control flow of space and time (one universe/space-time)
"heat death" of the world
Now tell me this, if Veldanava did not create the universe, or help to create the universe, then what are the "worlds" he created? Like Starfeldway said, Veldanava is the being who created the rules for the universe. He created planets, created life on those planets using turn null, favoring humans the most, and oversaw those worlds.
If you disagree, please provide a source for your claim that Veldanava created a "multiverse", when the Holy Spirit and Great Spirits could only create a universe.
If you actually read the after stories, you would realize that the mobius system is comparable to Beelzebub (and Gluttony) because it is fueled by two black holes, devouring surrounding energy and empowering itself. This is an overtime environmental destruction, not an actual ap feat.
Veldora was holding off the mobius system because his Ultimate skill was specialized in energy manipulation while Veldora himself having one of the highest energy amounts.
If Yuuki, having Beelzebub, could have devoured the entire space-time, why is it that he never did. Yuuki died before destroying the universe, and Ciel specifically stating "he destroyed all the celestial objects but couldn't destroy the universe during his lifetime." Sounds a lot like Gluttony, right?
First Veldanava created an unknown number of "worlds", not 10,000. Second, Beelzebub is a powered-up version of Gluttony. It cannot out right destroy the universe, otherwise Yuuki would have done so. It can only devour energy to one day destroy the universe, similar to the mobius system and Gluttony. Just that Guttony cannot devour the entire universe, possibly having a limit. Outright creating an unknown number of planets is definitely superior to energy absorption.
I was, but now I want to actually downgrade them, because this is a reasonable downgrade. Fuse loves sci-fi and loves to talk about energy. However even I feel like Fuse may have changed his mind after seeing the overly fictious abilities he had created.
He had created several different worlds, and yet all of them showed the same tendencies in the end.
Supporting that would be that there’s other dimensions which have souls moving around and by dimensions he was referring to other Universes.Several parallel worlds existed with small details changed in each
The system had been constructed so that the souls of all the dimensions would circulate
That last part is to show that world doesn’t always only mean planet.The watchers were limited to how much they could intervene, and commanded to prevent the basis of the world from falling apart.
And anyways Idk why your fighting for this. With this hereYuuki must have not been able to destroy the world itself. I speculate that after destroying all the stars as a space-time continuum, his lifespan had ended
And this here.After that, I floated off into space, and witnessed the ending of the universe.]
Universe gone, rimuru can create this structure tens of thousands of times over.[As so much time has passed, there is an enormous amount of energy from ‘Turn Null’ that has been stored. Veldanava seems to have lost ‘Turn Null’ when creating the world, but you still have ‘Imaginary Space’, so there should not be a problem. As ‘Imaginary Space’ is infinite, it has not become full, but it has been loaded with enough energy to rebuild worlds tens of thousands of times over. If I may add, this means that you can replicate every person you were ever involved with including their memories, you can create a world that is as close as you can possibly get to the world you left. What will you do?]
First off if we’re going off if what Starfeldaway said then as I provided with my analogy the HS created reality not the uni.
This was said by you, and I explained why Starfeldaway did not say that.First not that I agree but Starfeldaway is saying that Great Holy Spirit created “reality” and that Veldanava created the multiverse.
parallel "worlds" could also mean similar planets. Like the "worlds" he created for humans. What seems more logical, him creating universes for human life or planets for human life? Were those dimensions mentioned to be created by Veldanava?For where I got the multiverse it’s veldanava stating he created many parallel worlds which should be universes. Supporting that would be that there’s other dimensions which have souls moving around and by dimensions he was referring to other Universes.
Yuuki did not detroy the space-time continuum, your scans even say he didn't. Yuuki destroyed all of the celestial objects of the universe, but never destroyed the universe itself. Whole reason Yuuki and everyone else are only 3-a is because Yuuki failed to destroy the universe.Yuuki did destroy the Space-Time continuum.
And anyways Idk why your fighting for this. With this here
And this here.
When was the "structure" ever mentioned to be a universe? Ciel only mentions Rimuru can recreate Veldanava's "world" tens of thousands of times over because Rimuru has more turn null.Universe gone, rimuru can create this structure tens of thousands of times over.
Before making this thread he explained something’s on the Tensura discord. I’m reiterating what he said on disc.This was said by you, and I explained why Starfeldaway
Yeah it could but the other dimensions part indicates it’s a universe. He was in a space if nothingness meaning nothing existed he created a world which was a universe so something existed in that space. Unless you wanna tell me how a dimension already existed if it was a space of nothingness then yeah he created it. Also he constructed the system to preside over those dimensions and his other worlds.This was said by you, and I explained why Starfeldaway did not say that.
parallel "worlds" could also mean similar planets. Like the "worlds" he created for humans. What seems more logical, him creating universes for human life or planets for human life? Were those dimensions mentioned to be created by Veldanava?
Yuuki did not detroy the space-time continuum, your scans even say he didn't. Yuuki destroyed all of the celestial objects of the universe, but never destroyed the universe itself. Whole reason Yuuki and everyone else are only 3-a is because Yuuki failed to destroy the universe.
When was the "structure" ever mentioned to be a universe? Ciel only mentions Rimuru can recreate Veldanava's "world" tens of thousands of times over because Rimuru has more turn null.
Full context.Did she witness the end of the universe? What was that supposed to mean…?
I mean, there was no way you could stay alive in such a situation.
There were much more believable lies to tell–but then I remembered, Ciel did not tell lies.
Sometimes, I was fooled by her, but it wasn’t so much that she lied, but that I had misunderstood her–or she made me–that’s all.
In that case, then we were really in a world at the end!?
[Yes, that is right. Well then, what will you do now?]
What will I do?
[As so much time has passed, there is an enormous amount of energy from ‘Turn Null’ that has been stored. Veldanava seems to have lost ‘Turn Null’ when creating the world, but you still have ‘Imaginary Space’, so there should not be a problem. As ‘Imaginary Space’ is infinite, it has not become full, but it has been loaded with enough energy to rebuild worlds tens of thousands of times over. If I may add, this means that you can replicate every person you were ever involved with including their memories, you can create a world that is as close as you can possibly get to the world you left. What will you do?]
And what do you mean. Turn Null is in a separate dimension from the main Universe so no the Universe doesn’t use Turn Null to regulate time and space.world itself uses energy- turn null to regulate time and space to flow effectively so ones that energy loses its power to expand further the concept of both time and space-spread of space here means matter either ways as a voided space still waits for you
It was an extreme ability from another dimension
Veldanava created the world with several parallel universes having few changes on each allowing them to evolve differently
it's tens of thousands meaning (10-99k) not 10,000Yeah it could but the other dimensions part indicates it’s a universe. He was in a space if nothingness meaning nothing existed he created a world which was a universe so something existed in that space. Unless you wanna tell me how a dimension already existed if it was a space of nothingness then yeah he created it. Also he constructed the system to preside over those dimensions and his other worlds.
Ok Yuuki with gluttony can destroy all stars in the universe. Not matter how much I lowball there’s at least over 1 billion stars in the universe.
Turn Null the ultimate ability, the strongest one which makes rimuru stronger than veldanava and is the strongest ability inverse. Rimuru had the ability to create and destroy 10,000 worlds. Not even getting into the star is stronger than planet but 1 billion is bigger than 10,000. So are you saying that over time Yuuki with beelzebub can have a higher AP than Rimuru with Turn Null the strongest ability. The primordial energy.
And the structure is a universe because rimuru was literally talking about the destruction of a universe a few paragraphs ago. Context is why it was referring to a universe. Sekai can mean planet or society but with context in this instance it was Universe.
Full context.
I agree just used 10,000 cause it’s the safest though it’s Still below 1 billion. Also I’m low balling cause there’s like over 200 billion stars within the universe.it's tens of thousands meaning (10-99k) not 10,000
not only that one world means multi as far as I know because it's stated that each world's has several parallel universesI agree just used 10,000 cause it’s the safest though it’s Still below 1 billion. Also I’m low balling cause there’s like over 200 billion stars within the universe.
I agree but there are others in the comments who don’t. Though I understand since it’s never explicitly stated universe context should say everything needed to know.not only that one world means multi as far as I know because it's stated that each world's has several parallel universes
my man talks like asif we canNonsense Crt. You guys should close it
The term "world" has multiple meanings, and being one of them is the "humanity" which mean the "world creation" in context are mostly referring to humanities or in other words: life "he created a life" and not planets and this argument is supported by fuse himself cus he said "Veldanava aroused after the world was created, and created a life"If Veldanava didn't create the universe, then the "worlds' he created after the big bang could only be planets
First of all, what's your proof that Veldanava isn't the holy spirit.my man talks like asif we can
rimuru doesn't deserve nep1 and Td1
although you guys justification have already been addressed
Once staffs come I'll be able to finally validate everything
this thread is going In circles and the upgrade thread is left un attended too
you don't make any sense tbh. so, from my perspective are u saying that the Great Spirit of Sky causes the existence of Velda since the Great Spirit of sky is the concept of existence? and u still insist that Velda isn't the HS which became more complicated from my understanding like what's the point of "TURN NULL" called the primordial energy that is needed to create the world that includes the great spirits since they are the cause of the existence of reality?my man talks like asif we can
rimuru doesn't deserve nep1 and Td1
although you guys justification have already been addressed
Once staffs come I'll be able to finally validate everything
this thread is going In circles and the upgrade thread is left un attended too
That would conflict with the turn null statement from Ciel at the end of the novel. She tells us Rimuru can "recreate the Veldanava's world tens of thousands of times", meaning a physical construct and not humanities or life.The term "world" has multiple meanings, and being one of them is the "humanity" which mean the "world creation" in context are mostly referring to humanities or in other words: life "he created a life" and not planets and this argument is supported by fuse himself cus he said "Veldanava aroused after the world was created, and created a life"
I still don't get why people are stating "10,000" worlds for Veldanava. We don't know the number of worlds Veldanava created, and only Rimuru has the confirmation of "tens of thousands of Veldanava's world".And even if one ignores that fact, This "can only create and destroy 10,000 planets" doesn't make any sense within the verse
Number of planets Veldanava created is untold but if Veldanava created every planet for a galaxy or super cluster, then wouldn't it be superior to star destruction.like destroying a star (which is a million times larger than a planet)
"catastrophic, destructive power which was the greatest seen since the beginning of the universe." Nothing mentions it to be greater or even comparable to the big bang. Not to mention it was the greatest 'destructive" power that was ever "seen".creating an energy greater than a big bang itself
energy absorbing, with an untold amount of time. Seeing as how even Yuuki died before it finished, yeah no.universal eater with beelzebub
This isn't an actual argument but a mock against Starfeldway saying that Primordial energy can't be non-existent because it is energy. This is the only thing I disagree with from Starfeldway, because Primordial energy is told to be non-existent many times.