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misconceptions about rimuru's abilities
- Thread starter Starfeldway
- Start date
- 5,091
- 2,917
Argument seems legit so I agree with everything.
Does this mean he loses his CM 1 resistance too?
Does this mean he loses his CM 1 resistance too?
Starfeldway
He/Him- 581
- 135
- Thread starter
- #123
he resist something like type 2 not type 1 by feat
Starfeldway
He/Him- 581
- 135
- Thread starter
- #124
but @Guretodesu argument on TD1 seems logical, idk tbh
so dragon veldanava and holy spirit are different yet same. although like I proposed the concept of time in that reference is type 2 not type 1
or more like saying the universe energy rate siezed so there's no much point to reference shit like
"the great spirits were erased" if the author points that out then fine, buy he didn't
at to me
"the world veldanava created granted you everything" could simply just mean veldanava world is perfect not necessarily involving the great spirits
I'll wait for staffs to see to this
so dragon veldanava and holy spirit are different yet same. although like I proposed the concept of time in that reference is type 2 not type 1
or more like saying the universe energy rate siezed so there's no much point to reference shit like
"the great spirits were erased" if the author points that out then fine, buy he didn't
at to me
"the world veldanava created granted you everything" could simply just mean veldanava world is perfect not necessarily involving the great spirits
I'll wait for staffs to see to this
Starfeldway
He/Him- 581
- 135
- Thread starter
- #125
that's why tier 2-B stays
although turn null isn't type 1 conceptual manipulation its type 2
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Why would turn null cease to be type 1? Is it because the destruction/death of the great spirits≠ destruction of the universe?
AzuRizzz
She/Her- 603
- 214
He insists that turn null didn't gave birth to great spirits which gave birth to the world.
Holy Spirit created the great spirits that gave birth to the world he saying. Not veldanava
Even though Holy Spirit = Veldanava
Losing turn null after giving birth to the world.
Starfeldway
He/Him- 581
- 135
- Thread starter
- #131
because the concept of time and space controlled by turn null energy is dependent on great spirits which are from the holy spirit who is the source of all things.
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uhm no? Ur implying that they are a double-layered concept which is not true as the great spirit is the concept itself which turn null created
Starfeldway
He/Him- 581
- 135
- Thread starter
- #135
they are chapter 401
universe concept of time= turn null energy
because concept of time=growth rate of space as well which flows with energy which should be turn null
the idea of time for each universe and the great spirits which holds the concept of time for the multiverse itself is another thing
AzuRizzz
She/Her- 603
- 214
Bruhe, that's not how it works.
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So are u debunking his cm1 too? This is literally so low balled which was accepted by the admins for so long already
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Starfieldway, didn't you say that the big bang/Holy Spirit created the world then veldanava and primordial energy were born after the big bang? That Veldanava only made the rules for the world? If this is true, then Great Spirits are only universal concepts, because they created and embodied concepts of only one universe.
Great Spirits are also energy beings, so like you said with turnnull Primordial Energy, they can't be abstract things such as concepts. I agree with your statement that concepts and Great Spirits are different, because truly concepts > Great Spirits.
If Veldanava didn't create the universe, then the "worlds' he created after the big bang could only be planets. Therefore, remove 2b from Rimuru. Mobius System only guarantees 2c. Let's also forget about the illogical assumption that somehow Veldora and others became 2c characters while the strongest being previously, Veldanava, was only planetary.
I agree with everything. Remove NEP, conceptual manipulation, and 2b tier from Rimuru.
Great Spirits are also energy beings, so like you said with turnnull Primordial Energy, they can't be abstract things such as concepts. I agree with your statement that concepts and Great Spirits are different, because truly concepts > Great Spirits.
If Veldanava didn't create the universe, then the "worlds' he created after the big bang could only be planets. Therefore, remove 2b from Rimuru. Mobius System only guarantees 2c. Let's also forget about the illogical assumption that somehow Veldora and others became 2c characters while the strongest being previously, Veldanava, was only planetary.
I agree with everything. Remove NEP, conceptual manipulation, and 2b tier from Rimuru.
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I cannot understand if your joking.
First not that I agree but Starfeldaway is saying that Great Holy Spirit created “reality” and that Veldanava created the multiverse.
Think like he’s saying that the Holy Spirit existed where none of this was. The HS created the other GS and they all together created “paper” which the verse is written on. Veldanava created the words which is the Verse and allows for the story, characters, and the universe to exist.
No paper then everything is gone, no words and the paper still exist. That’s what he’s saying.
He’s also saying that the end of time space isn’t a void of nothingness but the end of the multiverse while “reality” still exist.
Therefore neither veldanava nor rimuru ever existed without the Duality’s and so they aren’t superior to them.
You do understand that the mobis system feat which is uni-uni+ was compared to Beelzebub which Yuuki has.
Mobis=2c and Beelzebub=Mobis meaning beelzebub is is at least Uni. Yuuki has access tothis and he doesn’t even have access to all of veldanavas power.
So are you seriously trying to say that Yuuki with half of Veldanavas max energy can have higher output with a king class skill that Veldanava the god who had more power then him. Your trying to say that Veldanava with 10,000 planets is above Yuuki with a uni destroying attack.
Not to mention just him your saying that Guy, TD rimuru and others outscale Veldanava.
Also what do you have to say about the other dimensions which have their own Universes. Or the fact that Yuuki destroyed the space-time continuum? Yeah Tensura really caps at 10,000 planets.
Back to Starfeldaways point I don’t agree. I believe Fuse changed it not only due to the time difference between his post and the story ending but due to the last chapters which came out after that response from Fuse.
The word nothingness has been repeatedly used and some questions come into call. If the Great Spirtits and “Reality”, the primordial energies and the concepts were already born then what nothingness was veldanava talking about.
Also rimuru does refer to the end of time and space as a world of nothingness which fits the previous bill since if the universe is gone but reality still exist then he should be able to perceive that and so it wouldn’t be nothingness.
This ain’t even talking about how if your trying to downgrade the Gs to type 2 then he quite literally has to have the ability to create some of them. Since if time and space have ended then the GS of Sky and Time would be gone but he can create a world with time and space so he’s have to at least be able to create those two.
That’s also without me asking more questions. Why is time and space gone? If their type 1 concepts and Yuuki can’t interact or deal with them then how did time and space just magically end? If their type 2 then the GS that govern over them have to be gone and if their type 1 then why is information bound to time? How did all information and existence become destroyed?
I also don’t agree with the separation of the Holy Spirit and Veldanava as theirs contradictions that arise. And back to that Universe and Reality separation th at Starfeldaway is trying to create I don’t agree. His interpretation of Fuse statement of veldanava existing after the world and the one of veldanava creating the world is causing this distinction despite the fact that the word reality has never been blatantly stated to be separate from the universe.
It’s much more reasonable to go with our previous findings. Fuse as he is an author changed his mind. The place Rimuru was BFR’d to was when the Great Spirts were gone and it is indeed a void.
So I disagree with the TD downgrade as well as the proposed AP downgrade by members of the thread.
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Starfeldway
He/Him- 581
- 135
- Thread starter
- #141
you posted the scan yourself
yuuki don't have the power to send him to a future where there's no reality, ciel who is trusted said "according to the law of entropy" this is just the universe losing energy and mind you it's not the multiverse bro
it's just 1 universe end of time he met
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I wonder where you got multiverse from all these, because the only thing that can be concluded is a universe:
Holy Spirit that created everything is the big bang (one universe)
Great Spirits create the world (one universe)
turn null use is to control flow of space and time (one universe/space-time)
"heat death" of the world
Now tell me this, if Veldanava did not create the universe, or help to create the universe, then what are the "worlds" he created? Like Starfeldway said, Veldanava is the being who created the rules for the universe. He created planets, created life on those planets using turn null, favoring humans the most, and oversaw those worlds.
If you disagree, please provide a source for your claim that Veldanava created a "multiverse", when the Holy Spirit and Great Spirits could only create a universe.
If you actually read the after stories, you would realize that the mobius system is comparable to Beelzebub (and Gluttony) because it is fueled by two black holes, devouring surrounding energy and empowering itself. This is an overtime environmental destruction, not an actual ap feat.
Veldora was holding off the mobius system because his Ultimate skill was specialized in energy manipulation while Veldora himself having one of the highest energy amounts.
If Yuuki, having Beelzebub, could have devoured the entire space-time, why is it that he never did. Yuuki died before destroying the universe, and Ciel specifically stating "he destroyed all the celestial objects but couldn't destroy the universe during his lifetime." Sounds a lot like Gluttony, right?
First Veldanava created an unknown number of "worlds", not 10,000. Second, Beelzebub is a powered-up version of Gluttony. It cannot out right destroy the universe, otherwise Yuuki would have done so. It can only devour energy to one day destroy the universe, similar to the mobius system and Gluttony. Just that Guttony cannot devour the entire universe, possibly having a limit. Outright creating an unknown number of planets is definitely superior to energy absorption.
I was, but now I want to actually downgrade them, because this is a reasonable downgrade. Fuse loves sci-fi and loves to talk about energy. However even I feel like Fuse may have changed his mind after seeing the overly fictious abilities he had created.
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Their is no distinction or difference between Reality and the Universe that’s your head cannon.
Yeah and right after that it’s stated that it’s a world of nothingness and that time and space has become nothingness or don’t exist so clearly entropy which is the stopping of time and space because of heat and expansion and not them ceasing to exist isn’t being followed to a tea here.
Their is no future where theirs no reality there’s only a future where their’s no universe which is where he ended up.
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First off if we’re going off if what Starfeldaway said then as I provided with my analogy the HS created reality not the uni.
For where I got the multiverse it’s veldanava stating he created many parallel worlds which should be universes.
Supporting that would be that there’s other dimensions which have souls moving around and by dimensions he was referring to other Universes.
That last part is to show that world doesn’t always only mean planet.
Yuuki did destroy the Space-Time continuum.
And anyways Idk why your fighting for this. With this here
And this here.
Universe gone, rimuru can create this structure tens of thousands of times over.
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This was said by you, and I explained why Starfeldaway did not say that.
parallel "worlds" could also mean similar planets. Like the "worlds" he created for humans. What seems more logical, him creating universes for human life or planets for human life? Were those dimensions mentioned to be created by Veldanava?
Yuuki did not detroy the space-time continuum, your scans even say he didn't. Yuuki destroyed all of the celestial objects of the universe, but never destroyed the universe itself. Whole reason Yuuki and everyone else are only 3-a is because Yuuki failed to destroy the universe.
When was the "structure" ever mentioned to be a universe? Ciel only mentions Rimuru can recreate Veldanava's "world" tens of thousands of times over because Rimuru has more turn null.
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Before making this thread he explained something’s on the Tensura discord. I’m reiterating what he said on disc.
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Yeah it could but the other dimensions part indicates it’s a universe. He was in a space if nothingness meaning nothing existed he created a world which was a universe so something existed in that space. Unless you wanna tell me how a dimension already existed if it was a space of nothingness then yeah he created it. Also he constructed the system to preside over those dimensions and his other worlds.
Ok Yuuki with gluttony can destroy all stars in the universe. Not matter how much I lowball there’s at least over 1 billion stars in the universe.
Turn Null the ultimate ability, the strongest one which makes rimuru stronger than veldanava and is the strongest ability inverse. Rimuru had the ability to create and destroy 10,000 worlds. Not even getting into the star is stronger than planet but 1 billion is bigger than 10,000. So are you saying that over time Yuuki with beelzebub can have a higher AP than Rimuru with Turn Null the strongest ability. The primordial energy.
And the structure is a universe because rimuru was literally talking about the destruction of a universe a few paragraphs ago. Context is why it was referring to a universe. Sekai can mean planet or society but with context in this instance it was Universe.
Full context.
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And what do you mean. Turn Null is in a separate dimension from the main Universe so no the Universe doesn’t use Turn Null to regulate time and space.
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it's tens of thousands meaning (10-99k) not 10,000
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I agree just used 10,000 cause it’s the safest though it’s Still below 1 billion. Also I’m low balling cause there’s like over 200 billion stars within the universe.
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not only that one world means multi as far as I know because it's stated that each world's has several parallel universes
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I agree but there are others in the comments who don’t. Though I understand since it’s never explicitly stated universe context should say everything needed to know.
Shiraito983
He/Him- 1,240
- 405
Nonsense Crt. You guys should close it
Starfeldway
He/Him- 581
- 135
- Thread starter
- #156
my man talks like asif we can
rimuru doesn't deserve nep1 and Td1
although you guys justification have already been addressed
Once staffs come I'll be able to finally validate everything
this thread is going In circles and the upgrade thread is left un attended too
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The term "world" has multiple meanings, and being one of them is the "humanity" which mean the "world creation" in context are mostly referring to humanities or in other words: life "he created a life" and not planets and this argument is supported by fuse himself cus he said "Veldanava aroused after the world was created, and created a life"
And even if one ignores that fact, This "can only create and destroy 10,000 planets" doesn't make any sense within the verse considering people lower than [Turn Null] has better feats than it: like destroying a star (which is a million times larger than a planet) and creating an energy greater than a big bang itself, universal eater with beelzebub and so on and so fourth.
As for the rest of arguments you made,
Yes it is possible for an energy to be a conceptual, just like how energy/mana in this verse are stated to be conceptual in nature.
And base on ch. 114 it seems the energy of GS only act as their physical body.
AzuRizzz
She/Her- 603
- 214
First of all, what's your proof that Veldanava isn't the holy spirit.
There are more proofs that he is.
Second, what made you think there's no duality in the verse? The two first concept signifies light and dark which is also Yin and Yang, a duality.
No matter how they try to intersect, it won't happen.
Then the rest of great spirits came.
And where's the proof that turn null didn't create the world and is only an energy to power it?
Even turn null itself was described to be the "primordial energy" that created the world veldanava used which he lost after doing so.
It is the power that enables to destroy the existing world and create a new one which is born through GS.
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you don't make any sense tbh. so, from my perspective are u saying that the Great Spirit of Sky causes the existence of Velda since the Great Spirit of sky is the concept of existence? and u still insist that Velda isn't the HS which became more complicated from my understanding like what's the point of "TURN NULL" called the primordial energy that is needed to create the world that includes the great spirits since they are the cause of the existence of reality?
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That would conflict with the turn null statement from Ciel at the end of the novel. She tells us Rimuru can "recreate the Veldanava's world tens of thousands of times", meaning a physical construct and not humanities or life.
I still don't get why people are stating "10,000" worlds for Veldanava. We don't know the number of worlds Veldanava created, and only Rimuru has the confirmation of "tens of thousands of Veldanava's world".
Number of planets Veldanava created is untold but if Veldanava created every planet for a galaxy or super cluster, then wouldn't it be superior to star destruction.
"catastrophic, destructive power which was the greatest seen since the beginning of the universe." Nothing mentions it to be greater or even comparable to the big bang. Not to mention it was the greatest 'destructive" power that was ever "seen".
energy absorbing, with an untold amount of time. Seeing as how even Yuuki died before it finished, yeah no.
This isn't an actual argument but a mock against Starfeldway saying that Primordial energy can't be non-existent because it is energy. This is the only thing I disagree with from Starfeldway, because Primordial energy is told to be non-existent many times.
