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Minor Natsu ( And fire magic users.) downgrade

Rin_The_Dragon_Empress

Rin_The_Dragon_Empress

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So, so far Natsu's fire magic has shown to have a weakness twice so far and it's directly stated by Ignia, the Fire Dragon God that Fire Magic is weak to Water Magic.
Fairy-tail-100-years-quest-11963149
under normal circumstances this would be PIS however it's happened twice now and we have a direct statement by a knowledgeable Fire Magic user. This should be noted either in his profile or on the Fairy Tail page as this. "Fire Magic has shown a direct weakness to Water Magic."
 
Not all the time, there's various examples of fire being able to work under water, there's multiple showings in One Piece alone that show Fire being able to light under water. Natsu's fire should be hot enough to ignite and vaporize the water before the water puts out the fire.
 
I was going to bring this just with the second "anti-feat" of Natsu's fire being unable to ignite underwater. First one was considered PIS but in the sequel it happened again and with this new information I think it's fine to add this as a weakness for every magician who uses fire.
 
It should only be for water magic, not normal water right? I remember Natsu being able to use flames inside normal water, but not the dragon's one.
 
The time when he was unable to ignite underwater wasn't by magic water IIRC. Not dragon water at least.
 
I think I recall seeing Natsu vaporized water magic before, but can't remember where.

But yeah, I think water magic from a Dragon should be his weakness. Although I cannot say the same to normal water magic tho.
 
I mean, yeah. But it is pretty common knowledge that Dragon Magic>Normal one, so I cannot really see the likes of Juvia can extinguish Natsu's flame which was fire magic that came from a Dragon unless I'm missing something.
 
You're overcomplicating it. Ignia says fire is weak against water, so the weakness is against water, not dragon water magic.

Your argument is a fallacy from disbelief. Juvia is much weaker than Natsu anyways.
 
We don't need to add an explanation to his profile, It's clear that Mercuphobia's Water Magic is very special as both times Natsu couldn't ignite his fire, he was in Merucphobia's Water Magic, as well Gray couldn't freeze the water at all, so it's far above normal water magic and has it's own special properties, Ignia just saying that in a normal scenario Water is super effective against Fire, that's a basic law in science, water is generally more effective against fire, I don't think Natsu has a weakness to water, I mean Natsu's Fire has vaporized Stone, Sand, and Steel Many times before, these are things have a far higher vaporization temperature point than water, proving that he's far above normal water and water magic, so it's stupid to say that he has a weakness to water, Later in the same chapter, Ignia says that while "Water is effective against Fire, there is Fire that can burn even Water, just like mine", clearly he says that while Water Magic would normally be effective against Fire Magic, there is Fire Magic that can overpower water magic, which could apply to Natsu, Igneel, and Ignia, as they have fire far above normal fire, so the reason Natsu couldn't ignite his fire in Mercuphobia's Water, is that Mercuphobia is far stronger than him, not cause Natsu is weak to fire, as there is more evidence to prove that Natsu is far above water

Did you even read the chapter, Ignia literally disproves your argument

The idea is that Fire vs Water can go in either's favor depending on the power of the user, so there is no inherent weakness to water that Natsu has, as Natsu has shown to have temperatures far above vaporization of water consistently
 
If he can ignite the flames and vaporizes the water before said water takes down the flames, then the temperature doesn't matter at all.

You're saying that Merc's water is special. Why exactly? Because is magic? Well you consider magic = nature so even if it comes from a dragon, is magical and has bonds with nature.

"I don't think Natsu has a weakness to water"

Fallacy from disbelief. Your opinion matters little to nothing against facts.

"Water is effective against Fire, there is Fire that can burn even Water, just like mine"

Yeah, but apparently Natsu's doesn't. Right now it only applies to Ignia because he showed the capability. If Natsu was truly affected, then he doesn't scale just because "he has fire above fire" which is unfounded.
 
Natsu has shown fire that is far above the vaporization point of water many times before, and while yes, Merucphobia's Magic does come from Nature, he literally stole the water from the ocean, he clearly made it special, as said water could not be frozen or evaporated, it's clear that the power of the fire and water matters, not that Natsu has a weakness to water
 
Ignia says that fire is weak to water. Ergo, fire magic is weak against water as well. He's not specifying and Natsu isn't showing any resistance. Only Ignia'd get the anti-weakness, not Natsu.
 
But Natsu has shown to be above water and has never been slowed down by it, and his fire has temperatures above water, unless it was created by Mercuphobia, Natsu doesn't have a weakness
 
How do you explain that time in the OG manga when he was unable to ignite his fire then?

Natsu's fights are rarely against water users. I think Mercuphobia is actually the first one who uses water.

Being above the temperature means nothing. On equal terms, the element with the natural advantage will win the clash, no matter what.
 
......... Merc is far above Natsu in magic and Natsu doesn't really have anti feats of his fire not working against water. The only one that comes to mind is his fist not igniting in 100YQ but we have to remember that all the water around the city is Merc's magic seeing as the submerging is caused by his rampant magic.
 
Yes he has. One that was considered PIS before the sequel. IIRC it was during Tartaros.
 
Calaca's right, he said he can't light his fire in Torafuzar's Magic, I would just add to weaknesses that Natsu can't ignite his fire underwater
 
That one. But I think that an inherent weakness to water is good. I still see Natsu losing a clash against an equally powerful water user.
 
Still fallacy from disbelief.

What I understand from your argument is that since Natsu's fire is hotter than the sun, a 3-B's water would do nothing just because it's water.

The manga is dropping the info. You're trying to avoid it.
 
An equally powerful/stronger water user and you have an argument to be made but just being underwater doesn't make sense when Natsu was surprised that his flames didn't work in Tenchii Kaimei (just like in Merc's water) which fits with his flames not working in water of a stronger being. Natsu was in base at this point while Torafuzar was using his Etherious form. A Low 7-B (arguably 7-B) at 4 megatons not being able to light his flames in the water of a 7-B that is casually 26 megatons.
 
I'm saying that Fire vs Water is based on power, that's why Mercuphobia's water is wrecking Natsu, if Natsu was fighting someone weaker, the Fire would win
 
So we agree, that Natsu's power doesn't work under water, when the other person is stronger than him, but against an equal opponent, their is no disadvantage
 
Don't forget that that fish looking demon water was enhance with posion and some other things, natsu become uncon after some seconds, while in case of wdg it's was simple a nerf for story progress, also wdg comment this And water enhances by his power gain resistance to fire manipulation.

And what ignia said it's true cause he was stating the normal relation ship between fire and water.
20190313 233517 rmedited
If ignia said he can burn water then should he have resistance to water manipulation since water didn't affect him?
 
My 2 cents is that users of fire magic need oxygen to produce their flames like in the real world. though I would argue that natsu is still some what weak to water as when he was submerged by torzufar's poison water he passed out almost immediately despite his poison resistance. it is also fair to point out that Merc's powernul might be a contributing factor in this situation.
 
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