Minor Gran Rey Cero Upgrade

[Damage3245]

A direct statement like "The Gran Rey Cero can vaporize all of Las Noches" would be a more valid hypothetical feat.

I can agree with removing the current calc but I don't think it should be replaced by a hypothetical scenario like this which isn't directly stated. At best I'd give it a "Possibly" rating because of the lack of confirmation and details, and assumptions involved.

EDIT: Mitch and I have already given our thoughts on this again. Either we go ahead with it being rejected or we get the input of more staff members, or we go around in circles again.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Lol that would make shit so much easier.

I’m fine with a Possibly, fairly certain that’s what the term is for in the first place. So long as it’s reflected on the profile in some fashion, I’m all G. Anything (that I can think of) is better than the current calc.

 

[AKUTO123]

A direct statement like "The Gran Rey Cero can vaporize all of Las Noches" would be a more valid hypothetical feat.

I can agree with removing the current calc but I don't think it should be replaced by a hypothetical scenario like this which isn't directly stated. At best I'd give it a "Possibly" rating because of the lack of confirmation and details, and assumptions involved.

EDIT: Mitch and I have already given our thoughts on this again. Either we go ahead with it being rejected or we get the input of more staff members, or we go around in circles again.

we've probably already at least approved the way to evaporation . do you probably agree with their stats for the top 4?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

That’s not how I understood. From what I can see, he is pointing out that CO is also stated to have the power to destroy LN and by virtue of GRC > CO, GRC vaping the entirety of the structure is far more feasible as CO (which does vape) is said to be able to completely destroy LN. Sure one can argue the possibility of CO vaping all of LN but it has an actual feat that can be seen and calced. The actual feat > hypotheticals. Rn the statement is being used as support for GRC doing so.

This

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

At best I'd give it a "Possibly" rating because of the lack of confirmation and details, and assumptions involved.

I’m fine with giving “possibly 6-A with GRC” for the characters who scale to or above Res Ulq.

Did you give your thoughts on using violent fragmentation for the destruction of LN for characters who scale below Res Ulq?

 

[SilentBob34]

I’m fine with giving “possibly 6-A with GRC” for the characters who scale to or above Res Ulq.

Did you give your thoughts on using violent fragmentation for the destruction of LN for characters who scale below Res Ulq?

Still honestly think this thing is unnecessary and isn’t really gonna chance anything in the long run

we’re gonna give a possibly to the stronger and yet you still wanna give a confirmed calc to people who are weaker? That doesn’t make any sense lol

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Still honestly think this thing is unnecessary and isn’t really gonna chance anything in the long run

we’re gonna give a possibly to the stronger and yet you still wanna give a confirmed calc to people who are weaker? That doesn’t make any sense lol

Possibly for both then?

I'd be fine with using "old calc, possibly new calc" under the pretense that the old calc is an absolute lowball but the new calc is ever so slightly speculative.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Old calc should be scrapped imo. At least use frag for the actual structure.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So damage mentioned the possibly rating with the new calc, just to make sure I'm understanding correctly:

Characters who scale to or above Res Ulq are lookin like "blah, 6-B with Cero Oscuras, higher, possibly 6-A with Gran Rey Cero"

Characters who scale below Res Ulq are lookin like "blah, at least High 6-C, possibly Low 6-B/6-B with Gran Rey Cero" depending on if we go for pulverization or violent fragmentation for those with no proof of vaporization

?

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think you should mix up different methods for the same statement. Nothing from what Ulquiorra states has to do with "Espada's of this level can destroy Las Noches by vaporizing it, Espada's of this level can destroy Las Noches by fragmenting it."

I don't see how trying to interpet Ulquiorra's statement to mean multiple different things isn't textbook headcanon.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don't think you should mix up different methods for the same statement. Nothing from what Ulquiorra states has to do with "Espada's of this level can destroy Las Noches by vaporizing it, Espada's of this level can destroy Las Noches by fragmenting it."

Well we know that characters who scale above Res Ulq can vaporize with GRC.

I think it's the opposite, we shouldn't assume the same method of power/destruction for characters who are all clearly of different power levels.

 

[Damage3245]

Well we know that characters who scale above Res Ulq can vaporize with GRC.

We don't know that, we assume that.

I think it's the opposite, we shouldn't assume the same method of power/destruction for characters who are all clearly of different power levels.

I'd rather not assume anything about the statement at all tbh.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

We don't know that, we assume that.

We accept that Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras vaporizes, we also accept that anyone stronger than Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras vaporizes, as indicated by Espada 3, 2, 1, and 0 all scaling above Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras on their profiles.

Gran Rey Cero is the ultimate Cero, therefore Res Ulq's most powerful Cero would be if he used a Gran Rey Cero. Res Ulq's Cero < Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras (vaporizes) < Res Ulq's Gran Rey Cero. Res Ulq's Gran Rey Cero would vaporize by proxy of being a more potent Cero than Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras, which already vaporizes.

Gran Rey Cero can destroy Las Noches, and as you can see with the translation and scan provided by IMade, Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras can also destroy Las Noches. Additionally, we see that by merely grazing Las Noches Res Ulq's Cero Oscuras vaporized a fourth of it, the statement highly implies that had Ulq actually aimed his Res CO at LN he would've vaporized the entire structure, and his GRC is even more potent and can destroy LN.

The opposition is saying the GRC feat is merely too vague to assume the type of destruction. However, for characters that scale to or above Res Ulq, that is simply not true. We Res Ulq accidentally vaporize a fourth of the castle via grazing it with a weaker Cero, it's implied with statements that had Res Ulq aimed CO at LN it would've made it go bye bye, and then GRC is more potent and has another statement for being able to destroy LN.

It's obvious that for characters who scale to or above Res Ulq, their CO's can vaporize massive chunks (if not all) of LN, and their GRC's (most potent Ceros) should be able to easily vaporize LN.

That's the low down hoe down.

Res Ulq's CO vaporized a massive chunk of LN via grazing it, Res Ulq's GRC is even more potent than his CO, it is stated capable of destroying LN. We are quite literally told and shown.

I'd rather not assume anything about the statement at all tbh.

I'd be fine with keeping everything the same and then just giving the Res Ulq and stronger Espada "higher, possibly 6-A with GRC"

 

[AKUTO123]

I'd rather not assume anything about the statement at all tbh.

a lot of CALC assumptions that we make now, we use some assumptions in calc 0 how many calcs are there ? I don't think there's a problem with small assumptions.

 

[Damage3245]

a lot of CALC assumptions that we make now, we use some assumptions in calc 0 how many calcs are there ? I don't think there's a problem with small assumptions.

What I mean is I want to avoid the kind of unnecessary assumptions like "Ulquiorra clearly meant different methods of destruction for characters using the same technique to destroy the same thing."

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What I mean is I want to avoid the kind of unnecessary assumptions like "Ulquiorra clearly meant different methods of destruction for characters using the same technique to destroy the same thing."

There's the issue, you're assuming that Ulquiorra's statement means "everyone's GRC is equal".

That is not the case. What Ulq's statement mean is that everyone can bust LN, it DOES NOT mean that everyone's GRC is equal in power.

Using context we determine what "destroy LN" means for characters of separate power levels.

For Res Ulq and stronger, it's clearly vaporization. For weaker, it's not as clear cut.

 

[Damage3245]

IMO the simplest solution for the weaker characters is just to list them as "higher with Gran Rey Cero" as it is more powerful than their ordinary attacks.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

IMO the simplest solution for the weaker characters is just to list them as "higher with Gran Rey Cero" as it is more powerful than their ordinary attacks.

I'd be fine with for weaker characters letting their GRC be at least 10x their regular Cero AP via Cero < CO (10x) < GRC. Whether that turns the rating into higher or whatever is fine. Then 6-A for the Res Ulq and stronger characters with GRC.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So damage what’re your thoughts on my above proposal?

It would look something like this for the characters below Res Ulq:

“[base], higher with GRC” or “[base], [next tier] with GRC” depending on if at least 10x amp takes them to the next tier or not

For characters to or above Res Ulq:

“[base], 6-B with CO, 6-A with GRC” or “[base], 6-B with CO, higher, possibly 6-A with GRC” I know you mentioned the use of possibly earlier in some metric

 

[Damage3245]

“[base], higher with GRC” or “[base], [next tier] with GRC” depending on if at least 10x amp takes them to the next tier or not

This is fine.

“[base], 6-B with CO, 6-A with GRC” or “[base], 6-B with CO, higher, possibly 6-A with GRC” I know you mentioned the use of possibly earlier in some metric

I said the "possibly" is something that I'd give it at most but it's still not what I'm most in favor of based on the limited information we have about the hypothetical feat.

I would rather list them as: “[base], 6-B with CO, higher with GRC”.

I'm fine to get more input from others though.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’ll grab some others to get their input, I appreciate your willingness to be flexible.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

KT doesn't feel like involving himself in the thread, but he told me to post this in the thread.

KT told me he is for just giving the Res Ulq and stronger characters "6-A with GRC" and not having a "higher, possibly 6-A with GRC".

Damage I know you are for just "higher with GRC" for Res Ulq and stronger characters, but you aren't inherently against "higher, possibly 6-A with GRC". So, I feel like "higher, possibly 6-A with GRC" is the perfect compromise.

@Damage3245 are you okay with said compromise? If so I'll go through our profiles and type up ratings for all those affected.

 

[Damage3245]

I'll come back to this tomorrow. I don't think KT's metaphor is apt.

Just to check, the only profiles this affects are Ulquiorra, Tier, Barragan, Starrk and Yammy, right?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I'll come back to this tomorrow. I don't think KT's metaphor is apt.

Just to check, the only profiles this affects are Ulquiorra, Tier, Barragan, Starrk and Yammy, right?

I think his metaphor is a bit of a false equivalency as well, but he's still expressed clear desire to go with the calc for the aforementioned characters.

FH Ichigo via > Lanza = Ulq's strongest attack, and Aizen via far superior to all Espada, then those who scale to Aizen, but yeah shouldn't be too many.

 

[SilentBob34]

How would post Rez Ichigo scale? He was able to wound Aizen after all, albeit he was caught off guard but it was still a decent wound non the less

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

How would post Rez Ichigo scale? He was able to wound Aizen after all, albeit he was caught off guard but it was still a decent wound non the less

Look at our current profiles to view how we currently scale the characters.

Ichigo Kurosaki (Pre-Timeskip)

Ichigo Kurosaki (黒崎くろさき 一いち護ご, Kurosaki Ichigo?) is the son of Masaki and Isshin Kurosaki, a Quincy with the powers of a Soul Reaper. Years after the death of his mother, Ichigo uses his innate spiritual awareness to help local ghosts, and unlocks his potential as a Soul Reaper when Rukia...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[SilentBob34]

Look at our current profiles to view how we currently scale the characters.

Ichigo Kurosaki (Pre-Timeskip)

Ichigo Kurosaki (黒崎くろさき 一いち護ご, Kurosaki Ichigo?) is the son of Masaki and Isshin Kurosaki, a Quincy with the powers of a Soul Reaper. Years after the death of his mother, Ichigo uses his innate spiritual awareness to help local ghosts, and unlocks his potential as a Soul Reaper when Rukia...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Feeling a little dumb right now lol please explain

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Feeling a little dumb right now lol please explain

You can go through the wiki search the characters and if you scroll down to Attack Potency you'll see the ratings in bold and the justifications in parantheses.

Like click that link and scroll down to the Attack Potency section and you'll see Ichigo's pre-timeskip ratings with their justifications.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Violent Frag for Los Noches is fine, hell I’ll even accept Pulverization

I think vaporization is pushing it a little, but I’ve honestly reached my limit of caring...

So yeah, that’s where I sit on the topic, I won’t post about it again

 

[Damage3245]

Violent Frag for Los Noches is fine, hell I’ll even accept Pulverization

I think vaporization is pushing it a little, but I’ve honestly reached my limit of caring...

So yeah, that’s where I sit on the topic, I won’t post about it again

I could accept a pulverization end as the safer end for it since other staff members seem to think that's fine.

Ultimately my preference would still be to list the Gran Rey Cero as "higher" but if others are fine with pulverization then I can see that being acceptable as a compromise.

 

[AKM sama]

Go with the mid ends. For the entire thing, either pulverization or violent fragmentation should work imo.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So right now the staff consensus is pulverization for all?

If that’s the case I’ll accept that compromise and type up the scaling updates and post here to make sure everything checks out before applying.

 

[Damage3245]

So right now the staff consensus is pulverization for all?

I think so.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Allllllllrighty then I’ll type up the updates and post them here later today!

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Calc: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arc7Kuroi/Gran_Rey_Cero
Rating: Baseline 6-B
GRC > CO (10x) > Cero, so GRC is either 6-B or at least 10x a regular Cero, whichever is higher. Aka if a character is already 6-B, they would be at least 10x stronger with their GRC, by virtue of it being a more potent amp than CO.

A quick preface, I forgot the entire ******* verse upscales the Espada after the Arrancar Arc, so I want to make sure the Espada tiering is hunky dory before I slave over going through the rest of the FKT cast, LAA cast, and whole ass TYBW roster. So, I only included the Espada (and pre-TS Ichigo) for now, if this is good to go I'll start typing up the rest.

Aaroniero
Tier: 6-C, 6-B with Gran Rey Cero | 6-C, High 6-C with Cero Oscuras, 6-B with Gran Rey Cero
Attack Potency: Island level (As an Espada he should be above the Privaron Espada), Country level with Gran Rey Cero | Island level (Stronger than before), Large Island level with Cero Oscuras (An order of magnitude above normal Cero), Country level Gran Rey Cero
Keys: Base | Resurreccion

Szayel
Tier: 6-C, 6-B with Gran Rey Cero | 6-C, High 6-C with Cero Oscuras, 6-B with Gran Rey Cero
Attack Potency: Island level (As an Espada he should be above the Privaron Espada), Country level with Gran Rey Cero | Island level (Stronger than before), Large Island level with Cero Oscuras (An order of magnitude above normal Cero), Country level Gran Rey Cero
Keys: Base | Resurreccion

Zommari
Tier: 6-C, 6-B with Gran Rey Cero | 6-C, High 6-C with Cero Oscuras, 6-B with Gran Rey Cero
Attack Potency: Island level (As an Espada he should be above the Privaron Espada), Country level with Gran Rey Cero | Island level (Stronger than before), Large Island level with Cero Oscuras (An order of magnitude above normal Cero), Country level Gran Rey Cero
Keys: Base | Resurreccion

Grimmjow
Tier: High 6-C, 6-B with Gran Rey Cero | 6-B, 6-B+ with Cero Oscuras, higher with Gran Rey Cero and Desgarron
Attack Potency: Large Island level (Stomped Bankai Ichigo in their first encounter, overcame his Getsuga Tenshō with a Cero. It should be noted that at this point, Ichigo's reiatsu was fluctuating wildly between "unimpressive" by Espada standards at its lowest, and comparable to or slightly greater than base Ulquiorra's at its peak, and Ichigo was trying his best to suppress his inner Hollow, fought on par with Post-Visored Training Bankai Ichigo), Country level with Gran Rey Cero | Country level (Equal to Post-Visored Training Bankai Hollow Mask Ichigo), Country level+ with Cero Oscuras (An order of magnitude above his normal Cero), higher with Gran Rey Cero (The ultimate Cero, stronger than Cero Oscuras) and Desgarron (Stated to be his strongest technique)
Durability: Large Island level (Took a Getsuga Tenshō from Bankai Ichigo and suffered some burns to his chest, but otherwise still fine, fought on par with Post-Visored Training Bankai Ichigo) | Country level (Tanked multiple attacks from Post-Visored Training Bankai Hollow Mask Ichigo)
Keys: Base | Resurreccion

Nnoitra
Tier: 6-C, 6-B with Gran Rey Cero | 6-B, 6-B+ with Cero Oscuras, higher with Gran Rey Cero
Attack Potency: Island level (As an Espada he should be above the Privaron Espada, was able to clash against an eyepatch Kenpachi, however Kenpachi stated that he was rusty and forgot to keep his strength in check. Was overwhelmed by him after he was at full strength), Country level with Gran Rey Cero | Country level (Stronger than Grimmjow), Country level+ with Cero Oscuras (An order of magnitude above his normal Cero), higher with Gran Rey Cero (The ultimate Cero, stronger than Cero Oscuras)
Durability: Country level (Stated to have the strongest Hierro of any Espada [the Databooks reiterates this statement multiple times]) | Large Country level (Took many attacks from an unsealed Kenpachi, and could only be finished off by a slash with Kendo, but, despite this fatal wound, he continued to fight, taking one more blow)
Keys: Base | Resurreccion

A quick change with Nnoitra that needed to happen before this thread tbh. Currently, we had Res Nnoitra's AP scaling to his dura which scaled above Res Yammy's dura, but Res Yammy's dura scales to his AP, see the issue? We inadvertently scale Res Nnoitra's physicals to Res Yammy's physicals, but that cannot be true considering how each Espada is stronger than the last. Easy fix is just scaling Res Nnoitra above Res Grimmjow, as I do here. I think we just didn't notice previously because technically all the Res Espada from like 5 and stronger shared the same tier, so it was hiding.

Ichigo (Pre-Timeskip)
Tier: 6-C, High 6-C with Bankai, 6-B with Hollowfication | 6-C, 6-B with Bankai, higher with Hollowfication | 6-A, higher with Full Power | At least 6-C, High 6-B with Bankai, 6-A with Hollowfication
Attack Potency: Island level (Fought and damaged Hiyori), Large Island level with Bankai (At least 5x stronger than before due to using Bankai), Country level with Hollowfication (Parried and dispersed Grimmjow's Gran Rey Cero) | Island level (Stronger than before), Country level with Bankai (Fought and damaged Base Ulquiorra), higher with Hollowfication (At least 5x stronger than before due to using Hollowfication. Nicked Ulquiorra’s sword, pushed him back, blocked his Cero, and made him use his Resurrección) | Continent level (Overpowered Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras and destroyed his Lanza del Relámpago), higher with Full Power (At least 2x stronger than before as his Shihakushō, which indicates his power, was only at half, when he fought Ulquiorra) | At least Island level (Stronger than before), Large Country level with Bankai (Blocked strikes from Resurrección Yammy and shattered one of his Balas while at roughly half power), Continent level with Hollowfication (Injured a Resurrección Yammy while at roughly half power. At full power he injured Aizen Sosuke with a surprise attack, Aizen also implied this was the power he gained from fighting Ulquiorra, implying it is on par Full Hollowfication)
Durability: Island level (Trained with Hiyori. Took attacks from Dordoni), Large Island level with Bankai (At least 5x more durable than before due to using Bankai), Country level with Hollowfication (Capable of blocking part of Resurreccion Grimmjow's Desgarron) | Island level (More durable than before), Country level with Bankai (More durable than before), higher with Hollowfication (At least 5x more durable than before due to using Hollowfication) | Continent level (Took no damage from getting hit by his own point-blank Cero), higher with Full Power (At least 2x more durable than before) | At least Island level (More durable than before), Large Country level with Bankai (More durable than before), Continent level with Hollowfication (Comparable to his Attack Power)
Keys: Post-Visored Training | Post-Final Grimmjow Fight | Possessed by Zangetsu | Post-Resurrection

Ulquiorra
Tier: 6-B, 6-B+ with Gran Rey Cero | At least 6-B, 6-B+ with Cero Oscuras, higher with Gran Rey Cero | 6-B+, High 6-B+ with Cero Oscuras, higher with Gran Rey Cero, 6-A with Lanza del Relampago
Attack Potency: Country level (Stronger than a Post-Visored Training Bankai Hollow Mask Ichigo), Country level+ with Gran Rey Cero (The ultimate Cero, more potent of an amplification than Cero Oscuras, which is an order of magnitude above normal Ceros) | At least Country level (Completely overwhelmed Post-Final Grimmjow Fight Bankai Hollow Mask Ichigo.), Country level+ with Cero Oscuras (Cero Oscuras is an order of magnitude stronger than regular Ceros, its Reiryoku shocked Uryu), higher with Gran Rey Cero | Country level+ (Even stronger than before, his Reiryoku is stronger than anything he's previously displayed), Large Country level+ with Cero Oscuras, higher with Gran Rey Cero, Continent level with Lanza del Relampago (Heavily implied to be his strongest technique, as it is difficult for him to handle, unlike his amplified Ceros which he fires with seemingly no difficulty)
Durability: Country level (Tanked a Getsuga Tenshō from Post-Visored Training Bankai Hollow Mask Ichigo) | At least Country level (Unharmed by a Getsuga Tensho from Post-Final Grimmjow Fight Bankai Hollow Mask Ichigo) | Country level+, possibly higher (Survived Zangetsu Possessed Ichigo's Cero, which overpowered his own Cero Oscuras, albeit the injuries he sustained were lethal)
Keys: Base | Resurreccion | Segunda Etapa

Let me explain something with Ulquiorra and this supposed 6-A rating I'm more or less proposing. With this scaling chain, GRC = 7 teratons =< Post-Visored Hollow Ichigo < Base Ulq ~< Post-Final Grimmjow Fight < Res Ulq < Res Ulq's CO = at least 70 teratons < SE Ulq (Uryu senses Res Ulq's CO reiryoku and then later claims SE Ulq's reiryoku is on a whole different level) < SE Ulq's CO = at least 700 teratons < SE Ulq's GRC ~< SE Ulq's Lanza, I'm proposing that his Lanza be upscaled to 6-A (760 teratons). Considering via the scaling chain SE Ulq's Lanza >> an attack that is bare minimum 700 teratons, and 700 teratons is already 92.1% of baseline 6-A. Personally, I think it is a reasonable upscale, albeit I don't too much care to push it super hard.

Next, let me explain why Espada 3, 2, 1, and 0 scale above SE Ulq. In every single medium we are told that Aizen numbered the Espada in order of power, it should be as simple as that. "But Ulquiorra never showed Aizen SE!" That does not mean Aizen isn't aware of it, not seeing =/= not knowing, I've never seen Pluto, but I still know it exists. Furthermore, Aizen implies he's aware of the form, Aizen is the one who granted the Espada the ability to use Resurreccion, to imply he isn't aware of the power he himself gifts to the Espada is baseless. Ulquiorra states that even if Ichigo wins there are 3 Espada above him, the same Ulquiorra who only deals in absolutes as he is a nihilist who finds no meaning in life, it would be so beyond out of character for him to lie here. "But Ulquiorra's number disappears in SE!", so does Harribel's, look at her boobies in Res. "But Kubo said the fourth movie version of the fight was the canon one!" No he just said it looked really cool, not that it changes anything if it were more canon than the manga. Quite frankly, there exists no evidence even pointing to SE Ulq being the "secret strongest Espada", outside of a preconceived notion that him making big attacks go boom boom makes him the strongest. Arguing otherwise would be arguing against Uqluiorra's narrative and the narrative of the Arrancar Arc in general.

Harribel
Tier: 6-B, 6-B+ with Gran Rey Cero | 6-B+, High 6-B+ with Cero Oscuras, 6-A with Gran Rey Cero
Attack Potency: Country level (Stated by Ulquiorra that she was above him.), Country level+ with Gran Rey Cero (The ultimate Cero, more potent of an amplification than Cero Oscuras, which is an order of magnitude above normal Ceros) | Country level+ (Ulquiorra believes that defeating him doesn't guarantee victory against the top 3 Espada), Large Country level+ with Cero Oscuras (As a higher-ranking Espada than Ulquiorra, her Cero Oscuras should be at least be this strong), Continent level with Gran Rey Cero (As the Tercera Espada, her strongest attack would be above anything Ulquiorra can produce)
Durability: Country level | Country level+
Keys: Base | Resurreccion

Baraggan
Tier: 6-B, 6-B+ with Gran Rey Cero | 6-B+, High 6-B+ with Cero Oscuras, 6-A with Gran Rey Cero
Attack Potency: Country level (Stated by Ulquiorra that he was above him.), Country level+ with Gran Rey Cero (The ultimate Cero, more potent of an amplification than Cero Oscuras, which is an order of magnitude above normal Ceros) | Country level+ (Ulquiorra believes that defeating him doesn't guarantee victory against the top 3 Espada), Large Country level+ with Cero Oscuras (As a higher-ranking Espada than Ulquiorra, his Cero Oscuras should be at least be this strong), Continent level with Gran Rey Cero (As the Segunda Espada, his strongest attack would be above anything Ulquiorra can produce), Respira ignores conventional durability
Durability: Country level | Country level+
Keys: Base | Resurreccion

Starrk
Tier: 6-B, 6-B+ with Gran Rey Cero | 6-B+, High 6-B+ with Cero Oscuras, 6-A with Gran Rey Cero
Attack Potency: Country level (Stated by Ulquiorra that he was above him. Fought a bit against Shunsui, though neither of them were serious), Country level+ with Gran Rey Cero (The ultimate Cero, more potent of an amplification than Cero Oscuras, which is an order of magnitude above normal Ceros) | Country level+ (Ulquiorra believes that defeating him doesn't guarantee victory against the top 3 Espada), Large Country level+ with Cero Oscuras (As a higher-ranking Espada than Ulquiorra, his Cero Oscuras should be at least be this strong), Continent level with Gran Rey Cero (As the Primera Espada, his strongest attack would be above anything Ulquiorra can produce)
Durability: Country level | Country level+
Keys: Base | Resurreccion

Yammy
Tier: 6-C, 6-B with Gran Rey Cero | 6-B+, High 6-B+ with Cero Oscuras, 6-A with Gran Rey Cero | High 6-B, 6-A with Cero Oscuras, higher with Gran Rey Cero
Attack Potency: Island level (Beat up a Bankai Ichigo, although he was being interfered with by his inner Hollow. Tōshirō noted that his Shikai might not be enough to defeat Yammy), Country level with Gran Rey Cero | Country level+ (Stated multiple times in the Manga, Novel and Databook that he is above Ulquiorra, Nnoitra and Grimmjow.), Large Country level+ with Cero Oscuras (As a higher-ranking Espada than Ulquiorra, his Cero Oscuras should be at least be this strong), Continent level with Gran Rey Cero (As the strongest Espada, his strongest attack would be the strongest among the Espada) | Large Country level (Stated in a Databook Yammy's 2nd form doubles his powers), Continent level with Cero Oscuras (His Cero Oscuras is an order of magnitude stronger than his normal Cero), higher with Gran Rey Cero
Durability: Island level (Broke free from being frozen from Tōshirō, tanked Mayuri's Anti-Arrancar Mine, took a beating from Yoruichi) | Country level+ | Large Country level
Keys: Base | Resurreccion | Rage Form

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ulquiorra
Tier: 6-B, 6-B+ with Gran Rey Cero | At least 6-B, 6-B+ with Cero Oscuras, higher with Gran Rey Cero | 6-B+, High 6-B+ with Cero Oscuras, higher with Gran Rey Cero, 6-A with Lanza del Relampago
Attack Potency: Country level (Stronger than a Post-Visored Training Bankai Hollow Mask Ichigo), Country level+ with Gran Rey Cero (The ultimate Cero, more potent of an amplification than Cero Oscuras, which is an order of magnitude above normal Ceros) | At least Country level (Completely overwhelmed Post-Final Grimmjow Fight Bankai Hollow Mask Ichigo.), Country level+ with Cero Oscuras (Cero Oscuras is an order of magnitude stronger than regular Ceros, its Reiryoku shocked Uryu), higher with Gran Rey Cero | Country level+ (Even stronger than before, his Reiryoku is stronger than anything he's previously displayed), Large Country level+ with Cero Oscuras, higher with Gran Rey Cero, Continent level with Lanza del Relampago (Heavily implied to be his strongest technique, as it is difficult for him to handle, unlike his amplified Ceros which he fires with seemingly no difficulty)
Durability: Country level (Tanked a Getsuga Tenshō from Post-Visored Training Bankai Hollow Mask Ichigo) | At least Country level (Unharmed by a Getsuga Tensho from Post-Final Grimmjow Fight Bankai Hollow Mask Ichigo) | Country level+, possibly higher (Survived Zangetsu Possessed Ichigo's Cero, which overpowered his own Cero Oscuras, albeit the injuries he sustained were lethal)
Keys: Base | Resurreccion | Segunda Etapa

Let me explain something with Ulquiorra and this supposed 6-A rating I'm more or less proposing. With this scaling chain, GRC = 7 teratons =< Post-Visored Hollow Ichigo < Base Ulq ~< Post-Final Grimmjow Fight < Res Ulq < Res Ulq's CO = at least 70 teratons < SE Ulq (Uryu senses Res Ulq's CO reiryoku and then later claims SE Ulq's reiryoku is on a whole different level) < SE Ulq's CO = at least 700 teratons < SE Ulq's GRC ~< SE Ulq's Lanza, I'm proposing that his Lanza be upscaled to 6-A (760 teratons). Considering via the scaling chain SE Ulq's Lanza >> an attack that is bare minimum 700 teratons, and 700 teratons is already 92.1% of baseline 6-A. Personally, I think it is a reasonable upscale, albeit I don't too much care to push it super hard.

So I’m curious about this part and the numbers involved. If GRC is gonna be 7 teratons and base Ulq scales to that physically, shouldn’t Res Ulq be 35 teratons with the Bankai multiplier and his CO = 350 teratons (High 6-B) < SE < SE CO = 3.5 petatons? Lanza and SE GRC/CO should be 6-A+, baseline High 6-A for Lanza if people really wanna upscale it for being 79% unless I misunderstood the math.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So I’m curious about this part and the numbers involved. If GRC is gonna be 7 teratons and base Ulq scales to that physically, shouldn’t Res Ulq be 35 teratons with the Bankai multiplier and his CO = 350 teratons (High 6-B) < SE < SE CO = 3.5 petatons? Lanza and SE GRC/CO should be 6-A+, baseline High 6-A for Lanza if people really wanna upscale it for being 79% unless I misunderstood the math.

**** do we currently accept 5x multiplier for Res Ulq? I personally am stricter on the "Bankai" multiplier and I keep forgetting I haven't made a CRT about it yet... I'll fix it in the morning...

I only consider upscaling when youre like single digit percent away from the next tier, they'd stick at 6-A+.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Pretty sure the only thing that seems to ever be an issue for getting the Bankai multiplier is specifically SE since it is sort of a special case when it comes to Resurrección. Normal Resurrección still get the x5 and it doesn’t matter about SE getting x5 here since the current scaling being put forth is that SE > Res CO which is basically a x10 for the form.

 

[Purgy]

Was there a thread that had Resurreccion's multiplier accepted? If so I don't remember it

 

[AnonymousBlank]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-multipliers.65021/

We even used this same stuff for the Sternritter CRT back in May iirc. Or was there a thread about not using it anymore for Resurrección that I missed?