MHS+ Seems Too Much: Marvel Comics

[Antvasima]

Not yet.

Okay. No problem.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

@Jason_Courne calced more Captain America speed feats

Captain America speed feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[M3X_2.0]

Can someone explain these feats, or can I just skip over them

Skip them

 

[M3X_2.0]

@Jason_Courne calced more Captain America speed feats

Captain America speed feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

Nice. Instead of slapping Hypersonic we will slap High Hypersonic.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to Jason for helping out here.

 

[Antvasima]

Btw: Don't we have a calculated feat of Captain America dodging multiple lasers when invading the headquarter of The Wizard during the late 1980s?

 

[Jason_Courne]

I've been scrounging through a lot of respect threads, and I've found something interesting

There is quite some evidence for Classic Electro's powers being natural lightning
For starters he got his powers from a natural lightning strike
And then there are the numerous statements and showcases that he controls natural weather

In fact even the "Electro is only 1000 fps" statement also directly calls him natural lightning speed (it's just writers not knowing how fast lightning is)

 

[M3X_2.0]

We’re not scaling characters to that speed if that’s what you’re trying to say.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

HMMMM

Various Marvel characters dodging Electro's electricity

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[M3X_2.0]

If we had a “haha” reaction button I’d used that now.

Gonna give it a quick evaluation in 20 minutes or so.

Saw some pre-Miller Daredevil feats and went

 

[Jason_Courne]

We’re not scaling characters to that speed if that’s what you’re trying to say.

Why? First it doesn't make sense if Electro were to be thousands of times faster than others

And second off it doesn't make sense to limit a character because gunfire is a complete non threat they can easily avoid

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Ngl why would be High Hypersonic accepted but MSH+ not? Both are extremly above any bullet speed

 

[M3X_2.0]

And second off it doesn't make sense to limit a character because gunfire is a complete non threat they can easily avoid

It also doesn’t make sense (and it’s not fair) to upgrade everyone to 4 digit mach because of one single character that attacks faster than the others. You’re ignoring their feats because one character has a higher attack speed.

Electro barely interacts with these characters, it’s been decades since he interacted with Daredevil or Captain America. These feats are more present in classic comic books rather than modern ones. The only character that consistently interacts with Electro is Spider-Man, because it’s one of his rogues.

It also break the context of their street level stories. Characters that mostly fight against regular humans daily now moves faster than any plane or aircraft? That’s powerscaling brainrot at its finest.

While High Hypersonic might be high and break the context of their stories, it’s much more believable, consistent and actually has some in-lore support.

Why? First it doesn't make sense if Electro were to be thousands of times faster than others

It does actually. In lightning form he is. The scan you’re using has Electro blitzing some folks. His only method of attacking is lightning, that some characters dodge, but this barely happens anymore. I don’t remember last time Daredevil did it, or Captain America. The most recent feat I remember is Castle dodging it and raising his gun when a lightning bolt hits the ground.

You’re trying to fit one single character into the verse’s powerscaling but ignoring everyone’s else speed feats.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Ngl why would be High Hypersonic accepted but MSH+ not? Both are extremly above any bullet speed

Way more consistent, happens a lot of times even in today comics, in-lore support for moving at these speeds.

MHS+ feats barely happen anymore, and they’re based on one single character that attacks faster, ignores everyone else and their feats.

Using one single character to scale 100+ others that don’t even interact with him anymore (some never saw him) with one single feat type (lightning dodge) VS Something everyone does (bullet/projectile dodge)

Not that hard to decide.

 

[Damage3245]

Reading through the past few comments here, I think that M3X makes the most sense.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Way more consistent, happens a lot of times even in today comics, in-lore support for moving at these speeds.

MHS+ feats barely happen anymore, and they’re based on one single character that attacks faster, ignores everyone else and their feats.

Using one single character to scale 100+ others that don’t even interact with him anymore (some never saw him) with one single feat type (lightning dodge) VS Something everyone does (bullet/projectile dodge)

Not that hard to decide.

I understand using the argument of being the most consistent value, but "Characters that mostly fight against regular humans daily now moves faster than any plane or aircraft?" is bullshit, literally hypersonic-high hypersonic speed is almost the limit that humans technology can reach in speed. It's just a nonargument. Even if we say that Daredevil is just subsonic he would be someone that even 200 normal humans would not be able to keep up with or hit

 

[M3X_2.0]

I said exactly what you just said. It also break the context of their stories, it might not be consistent with narrative, but again, it's more consistent, has in-lore support (Captain America saying he "sees" faster to dodge bullets, Daredevil's "nearly superhuman speed" statements, etc).

You can disregard this argument if you want to, but there is other arguments that you didn't answer to because I'm sure you don't disagree either.

 

[Jason_Courne]

It also doesn’t make sense (and it’s not fair) to upgrade everyone to 4 digit mach because of one single character that attacks faster than the others.

It's not fair to limit a verse because gunfire simply isn't a threat

Mortal Kombat is rated at Massively Hypersonic+ soley because of Raiden's lightning, so this is an incredibly faulty argument (oherwise they would be Hypersonic+ using the same logic)

There are other street tiers that utililize natural lightning, like X-Men's Storm (whom Spider-Man has reacted to and dodged), and there's even Captain America's own natural lightning feat

There's Iron Fist dodging Fat Cobra's lightning (which is implied to be natural lightning)

You’re ignoring their feats because one character has a higher attack speed.

You're ignoring feats involving Electro

Electro barely interacts with these characters, it’s been decades since he interacted with Daredevil or Captain America. These feats are more present in classic comic books rather than modern ones. The only character that consistently interacts with Electro is Spider-Man, because it’s one of his rogues.

Well yeah... he's a Spider-Man character, but regardless Marvel has always followed one singular continuity so those feats are still canon

Also in the Daredevil Yellow series we see a refresher of the Daredevil vs Electro fight from when Max tried stealing the Fantastic Four's documents, proving the scaling is still canon in the modern era

There's the Punisher 2014 series, where Electro was a reoccuring bad guy and Frank had to dodge his lighting blasts

and finally, it doesn't matter because people still scale to Spider-Man, I mean the Hypersonic scaling mostly comes from Spidey

It also break the context of their street level stories. Characters that mostly fight against regular humans daily now moves faster than any plane or aircraft? That’s powerscaling brainrot at its finest.

It doesn't break the context when Electro is also a street tier villain, and there are other street tier characters like Storm who use natural lightning
The heroes don't "fight" against normal humans, normal humans are literally no difficulty for the street tiers like Daredevil or Spider-Man

Bullets are completely no difficulty at all either, so why limit street tiers by something they have absolutely no difficulty with?

Also there is a VERY big difference between "Human level" in Marvel and THE REAL WORLD, I mean Wolverine is "AVERAGE HUMAN LEVEL" according to Modern Marvel (X of Swords Handbook)

It does actually. In lightning form he is. The scan you’re using has Electro blitzing some folks. His only method of attacking is lightning, that some characters dodge,

What? I showed you examples of Classic Electro manipulating natural storm lightning and being natural lightning

As I previously brought up Daredevil Yellow restablishes his stories from the 60s, meaning they are still canon

You’re trying to fit one single character into the verse’s powerscaling but ignoring everyone’s else speed feats.

And you're ignoring one key piece of the Marvel universe (actually 2 because Storm)

 

[M3X_2.0]

It's not fair to limit a verse because gunfire simply isn't a threat

I'm not setting a limit, I'm taking what's widely consistent over the years and what makes sense with their stories.

Mortal Kombat is rated at Massively Hypersonic+ soley because of Raiden's lightning, so this is an incredibly faulty argument (oherwise they would be Hypersonic+ using the same logic)

This is not relevant. Mortal Kombat doesn't have a hundred characters that scale to this. Marvel does. Some characters barely interact with each. Some never saw Electro in decades of content. If they're scaling the whole verse with one type of feat, then 1. They're wrong about this and shouldn't be doing it 2. It's their problem.

There are other street tiers that utililize natural lightning, like X-Men's Storm (whom Spider-Man has reacted to and dodged), and there's even Captain America's own natural lightning feat

I know, she gets MHS+ attack speed with lightning. Spider-Man dodged it once, bruh, you're crazy if you think we will use this one feat over a hundred different feats.

There's Iron Fist dodging Fat Cobra's lightning (which is implied to be natural lightning)

Same thing as Spider-Man. One against a hundred more.

You're ignoring feats involving Electro

Yes, I am. I am ignoring Electro feats because they're not consistent, they don't happen very often and because you're basically telling us that Electro's feats should be our highest priority when evaluating which feats to use over the characters feats. You have Captain America doding bullets and other projectiles consistently but now it should be ignored because you want Electro to have a higher priority. This is bullshit. Anyone can tell.

Well yeah... he's a Spider-Man character, but regardless Marvel has always followed one singular continuity so those feats are still canon

I never said they weren't canon, I said they're old and are part of a different era in Marvel's comics. It doesn't happen anymore. You're also saying we should prioritize 60s and 70s comics over 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s and 20s. There is no way this is going to happen lol.

Also in the Daredevil Yellow series we see a refresher of the Daredevil vs Electro fight from when Max tried stealing the Fantastic Four's documents, proving the scaling is still canon in the modern era

Yellow is just a modern origin story of Daredevil where they tell the transition from yellow to red. The canon story is still the one from Daredevil #2. It's actually one of the few things you can say it's canon from the Pre Miller era of Daredevil.

There's the Punisher 2014 series, where Electro was a reoccuring bad guy and Frank had to dodge his lighting blasts

Already mentioned.

and finally, it doesn't matter because people still scale to Spider-Man, I mean the Hypersonic scaling mostly comes from Spidey

Daredevil is one of the fastest Marvel street level characters and gets heavily blitzed by Spider-Man. The fact that Marvel classify Spider-Man as having super-speed and Daredevil with peak human speeds tells you that one is faster. Daredevil 2019 had a direct comparation between them; saying Daredevil moved like a human and Spider-Man doesn't. Not everyone scales to Spider-Man. He is faster.

It doesn't break the context when Electro is also a street tier villain, and there are other street tier characters like Storm who use natural lightning

My brother in Christ the last time Electro appeared was in 2016 when he died and he only came back in 2021 during Sinister War #1, he was totally irrelevant for over 6 years and even before that no one was dodging his shit except by Frank. There is no way you just told me Storm is street tier, what the ****? She isn't dealing with street tier stuff since, idk, 20, 30 years? Or maybe never? She was recently fighting Uranus with Magneto on ******* Mars. You clearly don't know what you're talking about here.

The heroes don't "fight" against normal humans, normal humans are literally no difficulty for the street tiers like Daredevil or Spider-Man

Then you don't read comics, like, at all. They're always having trouble with regular dudes, maybe not Spider-Man, but Daredevil is. Most of them have trouble with a couple of regular dudes, that's like, kinda basic for a story to work.

Bullets are completely no difficulty at all either, so why limit street tiers by something they have absolutely no difficulty with?

Again, I'm limiting no one. I'm about to scale them to Mach 60 or 90 because of you. I'm saying they're more consistent as a bullet timers rather than 4 digit Mach that can blitz planes and whatever, when this speed tier makes no sense with decades of story and setting. Like dude, just think, do you really think they move at like, Mach 1500 or 2000? Really? You can open any Daredevil comic from Miller to Zdarsky and you won't find anything above bullet timing.

What? I showed you examples of Classic Electro manipulating natural storm lightning and being natural lightning

Electro manipulating natural storms doesn't mean he shoots natural lightning. Two different sources of power. He controls electricity, lightning and electric discharge falls on that. What makes you think he is shooting literal lightning bolts rather than electric discharge?

As I previously brought up Daredevil Yellow restablishes his stories from the 60s, meaning they are still canon

The canon is the one from 1964. Also it's been 21 years since Yellow and no new encounter between them. It's just showing you an old encounter.

And you're ignoring one key piece of the Marvel universe (actually 2 because Storm)

Let me get this straight before I start losing my shit:

Electro IS NOT one key piece of the Marvel universe. HE ISN'T AS RELEVANT AS YOU THINK. He barely has 200 appearences. Storm is more relevant but you can count on your fingers how many people dodged her lightning and how many times it happened.

In summary:

• You're ignoring over a hundred characters' feats in order to give Electro a higher priority, when he barely even interacted with some characters that scale from this speed and they stopped having feats related to dodge his lightning.
• Just because one character attacks faster, doesn't mean everyone automatically scales massively above the speed of his attacks. They have their feats, authors work with them for years and they pretty much don't have Electro in every issue.
• Characters that used to face Electro more often don't do it anymore. It's been decades since Daredevil faced him. Same for Caps or almost everyone else.

 

[M3X_2.0]

No, really, it's like a different reality. What's so hard to understand here? Taking one character over a hundred, does this make any sense? Say that Electro is a key piece for Marvel universe.... what the ****? Since when?

This site is something else.

 

[Jason_Courne]

I'm taking what's widely consistent over the years and what makes sense with their stories.

But it's widely consistent that bullets are complete non threat that characters can effortlessly avoid with no difficulty whatsoever

So why limit them to purely bullet timing speed

Some never saw Electro in decades of content. If they're scaling the whole verse with one type of feat, then 1. They're wrong about this and shouldn't be doing it 2. It's their problem.

They are multiple feats that involve Electro

I know, she gets MHS+ attack speed with lightning. Spider-Man dodged it once, bruh, you're crazy if you think we will use this one feat over a hundred different feats.

You are choosing their lowest possible feats

Spidey only has a handful of actual building level feats, but he has hundreds of wall level feats so why not make Spidey wall level?

Yes, I am. I am ignoring Electro feats because they're not consistent, they don't happen very often and because you're basically telling us that Electro's feats should be our highest priority when evaluating which feats to use over the characters feats. You have Captain America doding bullets and other projectiles consistently but now it should be ignored because you want Electro to have a higher priority. This is bullshit. Anyone can tell.

I want to reiterate this is choosing their lowest feats and kicking away anything thats a higher feat

It's "consistent" that bullets are a complete nonthreat to street tiers, and they are easily evaded

I know, she gets MHS+ attack speed with lightning. Spider-Man dodged it once, bruh, you're crazy if you think we will use this one feat over a hundred different feats.

Once again, "You are choosing their lowest possible feats. Spidey only has a handful of actual building level feats, but he has hundreds of wall level feats so why not make Spidey wall level?"

Yes, I am. I am ignoring Electro feats because they're not consistent, they don't happen very often and because you're basically telling us that Electro's feats should be our highest priority when evaluating which feats to use over the characters feats. You have Captain America doding bullets and other projectiles consistently but now it should be ignored because you want Electro to have a higher priority. This is bullshit. Anyone can tell.

He's doing this stuff casually and has no difficulty with them

Once again this is choosing the lower interpretations of their speed and ignoring their higher ends, Captain America has dodged natural lightning before

If a character has only High Hypersonic feats

You're also saying we should prioritize 60s and 70s comics over 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s and 20s. There is no way this is going to happen lol.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying we shouldn't just deliberately ignore a huge chunk of Marvel history

Yellow is just a modern origin story of Daredevil where they tell the transition from yellow to red. The canon story is still the one from Daredevil #2. It's actually one of the few things you can say it's canon from the Pre Miller era of Daredevil.

So Daredevil's regular fighting with Electro are canon, and acknowledged within the modern era of Marvel

Then you don't read comics, like, at all. They're always having trouble with regular dudes, maybe not Spider-Man, but Daredevil is. Most of them have trouble with a couple of regular dudes, that's like, kinda basic for a story to work.

...
Daredevil has fought one hundred and seven Yakuza with some of them using superhuman enhancement drugs

And there are more feats of this caliber:
Daredevil fighting a dozen Hand assassins
Captain America effortlessly fighting giant groups of trained shield soldiers in power armor
Captain America just throwing around groups of Shield agents
Shang Chi effortlessly deals with large groups, and has never really been phased when fighting multiple opponents / warriors

Keep in mind most of these aren't actually normal humans, but trained assassins or soldiers

Heck, even Tony has relatively no difficulty when fighting against randoms

Electro manipulating natural storms doesn't mean he shoots natural lightning. Two different sources of power. He controls electricity, lightning and electric discharge falls on that. What makes you think he is shooting literal lightning bolts rather than electric discharge?

Cause they stated to move at "the speed of lightning"?
not to mention his entire powerset being based around natural lightning, it'd be odd if he specfically chosed to not use natural lightning in most of his attack

Taking one character over a hundred, does this make any sense?

Well then why scale anyone above building level when the have a trillion wall feats?!!

Should we just ignore the building level feats because there's an overwhelming amount of wall level feats!?

 

[Chariot190]

It's "consistent" that bullets are a complete nonthreat to street tiers, and they are easily evaded

Is it though? Sure, they can evade and block them, but by how much? Is it by a bit? A bunch? Or is it 1000x faster, and in the time it would take a bullet to move 1cm, they could have crossed 10m for example? I assure, the latter doesn't ever get conveyed or displayed in the majority of bullet feats.

Nobody is saying that they aren't faster than bullets.
But by how much is the question ignoring spidey because he built diff and blitzes most street ******* dudes like DD can, in fact casually deflect bullets, but more in the way a baseball player or some such can hit a baseball, he isn't magnitudes faster than them, just that he can react and dodge/deflect them.

I agree actually in that simply having lower feats doesn't discredit higher feats, but if those lower feats take effort, or aren't an extremely low-end minimum (like a lot of the bullet deflect/dodge feats isn't just a lol casual dodge, the bullets still move parallel to them in most cases, even if it's less so, implicating a degree of relativity, even if they are, in fact, faster. If they were MHS+ tho, the bullets would be effectively static while they move whole meters at a time).
So yeah, sure I agree just because they might **** with basic thugs that doesn't mean they can't be higher, but if they are shown to be around lower mach speeds consistently compared to MHS/MHS+. like, 100/1, they're probably closer to the lower end than the higher end.
except spidey, mhs spidey frfr

 

[Jason_Courne]

Is it though? Sure, they can evade and block them, but by how much? Is it by a bit? A bunch? Or is it 1000x faster, and in the time it would take a bullet to move 1cm, they could have crossed 10m for example? I assure, the latter doesn't ever get conveyed or displayed in the majority of bullet feats.

Well Captain America sees faster so obviously

But what I'm mostly talking about is most of their bullet dodging being relatively trivial, Captain America specifically seems to output next to no effort

Feats like these, where Captain America blocks an absurd amount of bullets whilst performing several acrobatic flips and jumps

 

[Chariot190]

Well Captain America sees faster so obviously

But what I'm mostly talking about is most of their bullet dodging being relatively trivial, Captain America specifically seems to output next to no effort

Feats like these, where Captain America blocks an absurd amount of bullets whilst performing several acrobatic flips and jumps

I would hope he can see faster, given he reacts t them often enough, but seeing faster doesn't mean he sees them as effectvely statc.
Bad examples, there no offense. If you calced those you'd prove M3X right.

I mean, think about it, yes Cap is blocking the bullets, but the distance between him and the guns is tremendous. The bullets cover tens of meters, while all he has to do is swing his arm in a 90-degree arc. Tens of times less of a distance.

Of course, nobody is saying Cap is slower than a bullet, but all those feats given show Cap doing basic bullet reaction feats, nothing that implicates he's hundreds to thousands of times faster, and in fact, you could argue otherwise. For example the cool flips, it might not seem like it but he's doing flips, in the time it takes bullets to get to him. If he does a flip and moves 2-3m that's cool, but the very fact there's bullets hitting where he once was, or barely missing him, despite the fact the gunfire had to travel was way the **** further kinda implicates he's not 1000x faster, otherwise the bullets may as well be frozen and he'd be able to do hundreds of flips before they reached where he was standing to start.

You are arguing that to Captain America, it would take, from his perspective, like 2 minutes for a bullet to cover 1 meter, or that he'd be able to attack like 2000 times in the timeframe it'd take a bullet to move 1 meter, in thos examples you gave, he wouldn't just swing his shield once and block, he could do it thousands of times. And that's if they were fired point-blank.
This obviously isn't true, he's faster, quite a bit faster, but he ain't doing no MHS/MHS+ shit and all his feats involving bullets show a degree of faster yet relativity to them.
mhs spidey tho im fine with tbh

 

[Jason_Courne]

This obviously isn't true, he's faster, quite a bit faster, but he ain't doing no MHS/MHS+ shit and all his feats involving bullets show a degree of faster yet relativity to them.

The thing is most of these feats are portraying Cap's bullet blocking as a mere after thought

mhs spidey tho im fine with tbh

True though, all I want is my MHS Spider-Man back

 

[Chariot190]

The thing is most of these feats are portraying Cap's bullet blocking as a mere after thought

I have yet to see feats from Cap where he actually statues bullets.
What you're describing is feasible by being just mach 5-10 or whatever, especially when he has quite some time before they reach him, but nothing you've shown indicates he's constantly and consistently treating bullets as taking minutes to reach him from his POV (For example, in your scans above, the soldiers to him, the bullets would take like 10-15m to reach him from his point of view if he was MHS. He's faster sure, and can do it casually, but he also has plenty of showings where yeah he moves faster, but the bullets also move with him, and while he might move more comparatively, he isn't moving the tens of meters he'd need to while they move like 1cm, which would be the case if he was actually MHS-MHS+).

Of course, there's the Electro stuff, but you have to understand, just because they **** with Electro rarely (not including spidey) doesn't mean it's consistent overall. Cap has FTL feats too for example, he also has anti-feats that makes him barely subsonic.
Of course there'll be higher feats and lower feats, especially for a comic dude, but we need to look at what's fair and consistent in the grand scheme of things, and while I agree with a handful of your views in regarding to capping them, in some cases, like here, Cap is consistently faster than bullets but not by so much they're effectively static or frozen.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Of course, there's the Electro stuff, but you have to understand, just because they **** with Electro rarely (not including spidey) doesn't mean it's consistent overall. Cap has FTL feats too for example, he also has anti-feats that makes him barely subsonic.
Of course there'll be higher feats and lower feats, especially for a comic dude, but we need to look at what's fair and consistent in the grand scheme of things, and while I agree with a handful of your views in regarding to capping them, in some cases, like here, Cap is consistently faster than bullets but not by so much they're effectively static or frozen.

Yeah at this point I'm willing to let the Electro stuff go, it's too inconsistent for lower street tiers like Daredevil or Captain America

Hypersonic+ to High Hypersonic is the most accurate speed rating

 

[Da3ggman]

Hey, I decided to come back to this thread to ask a question: how in the fresh Hell is Storm only Hypersonic? Even the feats mentioned on the page like reacting to lightning should get her at least Massively Hypersonic, not even mentioning her herald scaling.

 

[Chariot190]

Hey, I decided to come back to this thread to ask a question: how in the fresh Hell is Storm only Hypersonic? Even the feats mentioned on the page like reacting to lightning should get her at least Massively Hypersonic, not even mentioning her herald scaling.

Depends on the distance, like you could be mach 1 and dodge lightning if it starts from like 2km away.
You could be human level and dodge missiles if done from hundreds of meters to km away.

Distance matters, unfortunately, I don't see any scans so I can't tell if the feats in question are MHS to MHS+ or not, or if they're lower, or even higher.

 

[Da3ggman]

Depends on the distance, like you could be mach 1 and dodge lightning if it starts from like 2km away.
You could be human level and dodge missiles if done from hundreds of meters to km away.

Distance matters, unfortunately, I don't see any scans so I can't tell if the feats in question are MHS to MHS+ or not, or if they're lower, or even higher.

Shit, kinda forgot about that. Still, it says she's able to react to Cyclop's optic beams, which are light speed; She also reacted to mjlonir, and quicksilver (who is at least FTL, but I don't know if this happened before or after his power up).

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

She also reacted to mjlonir

Thor holds back a LOT

 

[Chariot190]

tbf, the quicksilver feat is less a feat for her, and more an anti-feat for him.
"Even he can't outrun a blizzard", like nah man, if he was FTL he absolutely ******* can outrun a blizzard. The feat comes off more as the author lowballing Quicksilver to some subsonic bullshit, than it is Storm actually reacting to him when he's at his usual mach to FTL self.

Second Thor throw was at a distance and she barely managed to turn her body a bit, she's way slower than it, so the question is more, how fast is that throw? She'd downscale.
First one is legit tbh.

But if Thor holds back by magnitudes, Storm might not be barely reacting to a MFTL attack and thus downscale to a lower degree of MFTL, it could be her barely reacting to a MHS attack or her barely reacting to a High Hyper attack, or rel, or sub-rel, etc, if we don't know how fast the throw is, they're unquantifiable for scaling. Unless we have reason to assume he was going all out? (But at that point MFTL+++++ Storm is probably an outlier).

 

[Jason_Courne]

I just finished up a post on one of the more recent Spider-Man's microsecond feats, and got Mach 278 reaction/combat speed
which only scales to the Spider-Humans


I'm also currently in the process of calculating some of Spider-Man's numerous laser / light dodging feats (mostly Relativistic to Relativistic+)

 

[M3X_2.0]

I was still writing the response but **** it I guess I lost some hours of my life. Just wanna answer some stuff because of one them is funny and Daredevil stuff (because I'm the Daredevil guy)

Cause they stated to move at "the speed of lightning"?

It's stated that his lightning travels at 1100 feet per second. That's the speed of sound lmao.

Daredevil has fought one hundred and seven Yakuza with some of them using superhuman enhancement drugs

He nearly died and he was MIA in the next 3 or 4 issues.

Daredevil fighting a dozen Hand assassins

He normally kills them, because they're already dead. So he uses assassin techniques. Way out of character, + he's having trouble (One of the first issues Checcheto drew for DD btw)

 

[Armorchompy]

I just finished up a post on one of the more recent Spider-Man's microsecond feats, and got Mach 278 reaction/combat speed
which only scales to the Spider-Humans


I'm also currently in the process of calculating some of Spider-Man's numerous laser / light dodging feats (mostly Relativistic to Relativistic+)

I really don't think we should use nanosecond/microsecond statements in comic books, it's clearly just hyperbole for "a short period of time". Shoutouts again to that High 7-C "microsecond" feat

Also you can't just say the feat only scales to them because "only they can do this" when it's much more consistent for the street tiers to be relative to the spiders, overall scaling should take precedence

 

[Jason_Courne]

It's stated that his lightning travels at 1100 feet per second. That's the speed of sound lmao.

I more or less have moved on from Electro, but that entire page is comparing him to natural lightning, it even says his bolts of electricity "travel at the speed of lightning", it's just writers not knowing how fast lightning

And for the 140 mph travel speed thing, that's "the maximum speed at which he can still breathe unaided."

He nearly died and he was MIA in the next 3 or 4 issues.

Yeah but it's still 107 Yakuza, with a bunch of them being superhumanly amped

 

[Jason_Courne]

I really don't think we should use nanosecond/microsecond statements in comic books, it's clearly just hyperbole for "a short period of time"

We should only give that treatement to the ~60s era comics, or the other really old comics, as those were the most likely to just pull a random number from nowhere

But in this scenario Iron Man was BFRing an entire army and in order to prevent them from spilling back out, he needed Spider-Man's "proportionate speeds of a spider" to crush the artifcacts within a "split-instant" and then later directly says they need to do it "to the microsecond"

It's not just pulling "microsecond" out of nowhere and slapping it on a character, it's an actual plot point

Also you can't just say the feat only scales to them because "only they can do this" when it's much more consistent for the street tiers to be relative to the spiders, overall scaling should take precedence

Nah the Spider-Humans are kinda consistently portrayed as completely different level in speed (or at least Peter Spider-Man is)

And Tony specifically points out that Miles needed to do it, because this type of feat required "the proportionate speed of a spider"

 

[Damage3245]

I more or less have moved on from Electro, but that entire page is comparing him to natural lightning, it even says his bolts of electricity "travel at the speed of lightning", it's just writers not knowing how fast lightning

If the writers don't know how fast lightning is, it seems like they would consider the characters to be a lot slower than the real speed of lightning. Therefore the comparisons to natural lightning are unreliable.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I more or less have moved on from Electro, but that entire page is comparing him to natural lightning, it even says his bolts of electricity "travel at the speed of lightning", it's just writers not knowing how fast lightning

I know you did, though the fact they said "the speed of lightning about 1100 feet per second" means it's not our speed of lightning.

Yeah but it's still 107 Yakuza, with a bunch of them being superhumanly amped

IIRC only the leader was.

 

[Armorchompy]

We should only give that treatement to the ~60s era comics, or the other really old comics, as those were the most likely to just pull a random number from nowhere

But in this scenario Iron Man was BFRing an entire army and in order to prevent them from spilling back out, he needed Spider-Man's "proportionate speeds of a spider" to crush the artifcacts within a "split-instant" and then later directly says they need to do it "to the microsecond"

It's not just pulling "microsecond" out of nowhere and slapping it on a character, it's an actual plot point

Proportionate speed of a spider means literally nothing and in fact if taken literally would make Spider-Man Subsonic at absolute best, I rest my case that the writers had no clue what they were talking about.

Nah the Spider-Humans are kinda consistently portrayed as completely different level in speed (or at least Peter Spider-Man is)

Rogues tho

And Tony specifically points out that Miles needed to do it, because this type of feat required "the proportionate speed of a spider"

Yeah nobody's debating he's faster lol, he's just not thousands of times faster