Metroid V: To Infinity and Beyond

[Yasuda_144]

Meant moreso the fact theyre selectable, newer games dont have that option.
Tho some beams cant stack anyway like Plasma with some stuff.

Also, I was talking irl, not lore, they just kinda dropped selectable beams post super excluding Prime.

Ngl, they better bring selectable beams back in Prime 4, having them in Prime 1 and 2 made the combat feel so much more dynamic. In Super the only real utility was disabling Ice to oneshot weaker enemies without freezing them, but even then it was nice to have the option.

 

[thetechmaster36]

so because of that it might not be restricted to being weaker than something like Plasma, which is Samus' "strongest weapon" as shown or stated multiple times.

Hence my hesitance. Though, like I said, it could just be a very specific stat amp that occurs only when using the Speed Booster or Shinespark.

So instead of noting it down in the AP section, it could instead be put under striking strength and we scale it higher than the super missile.

The thing is though, if we put in Striking Strength, we'd most likely have to put it in AP as well. SS does not scale from AP, but AP scales from SS. It'd be very arbitrary to exclude the Speed Booster/Shinespark stuff from AP and relegate it only to SS despite the fact that AP scales from SS.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Hence my hesitance. Though, like I said, it could just be a very specific stat amp that occurs only when using the Speed Booster or Shinespark.

The thing is though, if we put in Striking Strength, we'd most likely have to put it in AP as well. SS does not scale from AP, but AP scales from SS. It'd be very arbitrary to exclude the Speed Booster/Shinespark stuff from AP and relegate it only to SS despite the fact that AP scales from SS.

True...I forgor

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Just finished Fusion 100% and I quite liked it, though I think it was a little shorter than I would've liked. I think I like Zero mission more than Fusion, but I still really liked Fusion.

Now for some scaling ideas. In the end game, Gravity Suit Fusion Samus basically gets one shot by the Omega Metroid with the SA-X (which is peak Legendary Varia Suit Samus level iirc) also getting one shot by the Omega Metroid (although the SA-X was likely still wounded by it's fight with Samus, but that doesn't really matter), and Samus is able to fight and beat the SA-X. Meanwhile Omega Suit (I think that's what the orange suit in Fusion is called) Fusion Samus is able to withstand the Omega Metroids hits quite well (although she is stunned by the hits, but she doesn't take a lot of damage) and can dispatch the Omega Metroid relatively quickly, which she can do sort of similarly in Samus Returns with the Legendary Gravity Suit when she fought the Omega Metroid in that game (although I don't think LGS Samus gets stunned by the hits like OSF Samus does, so she might be a little stronger).

So from what I'm understanding: Legendary Gravity Suit Samus >/~ Omega Suit Fusion Samus ~ Omega Metroid (one shot level) > Gravity Suit Fusion Samus = SA-X = Peak Legendary Suit Varia Samus. So basically the Gravity Suit is seemingly a one shot level amp from Varia, at least going off of this.

 

[That_moron2]

Hi can someone tell me why Samus destroying an underwater volcano is 6-A?

 

[thetechmaster36]

which is peak Legendary Varia Suit Samus level iirc

Legendary Gravity Suit Samus >/~ Omega Suit Fusion Samus ~ Omega Metroid (one shot level) > Gravity Suit Fusion Samus = SA-X = Peak Legendary Suit Varia Samus

This is somewhat contradictory when we consider that, despite the SA-X assuming the form of Samus with the Varia Suit, Samus in Fusion states that the SA-X is her with her strongest abilities, and Dread's opening parrots this by stating that the SA-X was herself but at full strength. Adam also states that the SA-X is mimicking Samus at full power. So yeah, it's weird that the SA-X would assume the Varia Suit and not the Gravity Suit despite the claims by Adam and Samus herself of the SA-X being at her full power SM self, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I feel like they just went with the Varia Suit because it's the more iconic suit considering it's used all over stuff like box art and promotional material.

 

[Chariot190]

Hi can someone tell me why Samus destroying an underwater volcano is 6-A?

It isnt.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

This is somewhat contradictory when we consider that, despite the SA-X assuming the form of Samus with the Varia Suit, Samus in Fusion states that the SA-X is her with her strongest abilities, and Dread's opening parrots this by stating that the SA-X was herself but at full strength. Adam also states that the SA-X is mimicking Samus at full power. So yeah, it's weird that the SA-X would assume the Varia Suit and not the Gravity Suit despite the claims by Adam and Samus herself of the SA-X being at her full power SM self, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I feel like they just went with the Varia Suit because it's the more iconic suit considering it's used all over stuff like box art and promotional material.

Fair, but then if SA-X is peak Legendary Suit Samus, wouldn't that contradict the fact that Samus with Legendary Gravity Suit being able to beat an Omega Metroid but then SA-X gets one shot by an Omega Metroid? Unless Fusion's Omega Metroid is far stronger than Samus Returns Omega Metroid.

 

[thetechmaster36]

We already assume that Fusion's Omega Metroid is much more powerful than usual, whatever reason its unusual strength may be. Plus, we don't know if Samus was stronger at her peak in SM than she was at her peak in Returns. We just go with what we're given, and what we're given is. . .well, that.

but that's just because the writers didn't give a damn about the consequences of that, and just felt like it would be something neat narratively

 

[That_moron2]

It isnt.

Why is it on her profile as justification then?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

We already assume that Fusion's Omega Metroid is much more powerful than usual, whatever reason its unusual strength may be. Plus, we don't know if Samus was stronger at her peak in SM than she was at her peak in Returns. We just go with what we're given, and what we're given is. . .well, that.

but that's just because the writers didn't give a damn about the consequences of that, and just felt like it would be something neat narratively

Well, if that's the case, then ignore me lol.

So Omega Suit Fusion Samus ~ Fusion Omega Metroid (One shot level)> Gravity Suit Fusion Samus = SA-X = Peak Legendary Suit Samus.

 

[Keeweed]

I’ve always felt 5-B samus was strange when multiple of her games end with her panicking and fleeing from exploding planets (absolutely 100% dying if she doesn’t escape despite being on the surface and being human sized so receiving like 1/billionth of the energy). What does their new tier look like post the upcoming downgrades? If I read the previous page right saying she’s getting downgraded again.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Omega Suit Fusion Samus ~ Fusion Omega Metroid (One shot level)> Gravity Suit Fusion Samus = SA-X = Peak Legendary Suit Samus

It's more like:

Omega Suit Fusion Samus >= Fusion Omega Metroid >>> Gravity Fusion Samus > SA-X = Peak SM (Legendary) Samus

Because Gravity Fusion Samus and the SA-X are certainly close, but Gravity Fusion Samus was still able to beat the SA-X.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It's more like:

Omega Suit Fusion Samus >= Fusion Omega Metroid >>> Gravity Fusion Samus >/= Transformed SA-X > Base SA-X = Peak SM (Legendary) Samus

I put it like this because while Samus was one-shot by the Omega Metroid, she wasn't rendered into paste like Base SA-X was.

 

[thetechmaster36]

The SA-X was already heavily weakened by the fight prior with Gravity Samus, so it getting turned back into a toothpaste splatter in one hit by the Omega Metroid makes total sense imo. Not to mention, if the Omega Metroid can bring Samus down to 1 energy in a single hit, even from full health (which I'd probably just say is a gameplay mechanic, but I digress), and the SA-X was beaten by Samus, then the SA-X is more than easily able to get one-shot as well, it's just that Samus can't turn back into a splash of water when it's damaged to hell and back.

Idk about Transformed SA-X being > Base SA-X though.

Base SA-X is able to take a LOT more hits from Samus than Transformed SA-X. In fact, I think you can defeated Transformed SA-X in only two Charge Shots lol

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Yeah transformed SA-X seems more like a desperate move rather than a genuine power up.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

It's more like:

Omega Suit Fusion Samus >= Fusion Omega Metroid >>> Gravity Fusion Samus > SA-X = Peak SM (Legendary) Samus

Because Gravity Fusion Samus and the SA-X are certainly close, but Gravity Fusion Samus was still able to beat the SA-X.

To be fair that could be chalked up to Samus just being the better fighter compared to SA-X rather than being stronger, since while SA-X has her full power, I don't think it copied her combat prowess (might be wrong though).

 

[thetechmaster36]

That certainly is possible; Adam does state before the Neo Ridley fight that the SA-X would destroy Samus if she stayed too long, and considering the only thing she was missing was the Screw Attack, Samus at her peak and the SA-X being equal in strength isn't unlikely.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

What do y'all think should be the next 2d Metroid remake? I personally think a Super Metroid remake would be a cool pick.

If they did a Fusion remake, I hope they take the line where Samus said the Zebes animals taught her abilities she never knew she had, and replace it with a line that instead says that they helped her remember abilities she hasn't used in a while (since with ZM's addition, she first learned how to do wall jumps and shinespark in Zero Mission rather than Super Metroid, so that Fusion line was retconed).

 

[Armorchompy]

What do y'all think should be the next 2d Metroid remake? I personally think a Super Metroid remake would be a cool pick.

If they did a Fusion remake, I hope they take the line where Samus said the Zebes animals taught her abilities she never knew she had, and replace it with a line that instead says that they helped her remember abilities she hasn't used in a while (since with ZM's addition, she first learned how to do wall jumps and shinespark in Zero Mission rather than Super Metroid, so that Fusion line was retconed).

I like MercurySteam's style but it's a terrible fit for Super Metroid imo, SR is a good game but it already misses the point of Metroid II pretty hard and SM doesn't really need to be remade in the first place. Fusion remake would be alright but I'd honestly just want them to make new games, would be more interesting. Or they could just be insane and remake Other M into a good videogame, that's definitely not happening but it'd be really funny. Worth noting they actually originally planned to remake Fusion, and Sakamoto said that he'd rather they work on Return of Samus.

Varia -> Gravity is definitely a stomp-worthy amp btw, Diggernaut one-shots Varia Samus but she beats him (not at a strength advantage but they're at least somewhat comparable) in Gravity. The only big inconsistency are the Nightmare and Ridley fights in Fusion where they go from being threats to Gravity Suit/Feature Leg!Samus to fighting Varia/Gravity (respectively) Fus!Samus, but those don't really make much sense to begin with. Could maybe headcanon that the X can't fully replicate power if it's copying an old corpse but there isn't really much grounds for that.

 

[Chariot190]

Why is it on her profile as justification then?

Doesn't hurt to have support.
Like if we had an High 8-C dude, and his AP had a High 8-C feat/scaling, then listed a 8-C feat as support, nothing wrong with that
tbh the volcano could be high, it exploded and passed through 1km of acid, that's like 1800x air density.

I’ve always felt 5-B samus was strange when multiple of her games end with her panicking and fleeing from exploding planets (absolutely 100% dying if she doesn’t escape despite being on the surface and being human sized so receiving like 1/billionth of the energy).

tbf, in SM's case, she wouldnt be that far from the bomb, and it's well above 5-B. And Fusion the same, given the origin point is the BSL, which, she's on, and also above 5-B.
Dread tho she's far away AND that's only 5-B, the debris even form a field afterward, so uh, yeah sucks to suck ig.

What does their new tier look like post the upcoming downgrades? If I read the previous page right saying she’s getting downgraded again.

idk but ive calced tier 6 stuff in case 5-B falls through

 

[Keeweed]

I was mainly thinking of the dread one yeah. But will the other explosions be above 5-B with the planet gravity downgrade that was happening (it closed so I assume that went through).

 

[JJSliderman]

I wonder if they’ll ever explain why ZDR blows up, because the way it’s shown in game it seems like it was caused by the space station crashing into the planet

 

[Keeweed]

idk but ive calced tier 6 stuff in case 5-B falls through

What is the highest tier 6 feat calculated so far. Just curious because I wonder what future matches I could make if the downgrade does happen.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Varia -> Gravity is definitely a stomp-worthy amp btw, Diggernaut one-shots Varia Samus but she beats him (not at a strength advantage but they're at least somewhat comparable) in Gravity. The only big inconsistency are the Nightmare and Ridley fights in Fusion where they go from being threats to Gravity Suit/Feature Leg!Samus to fighting Varia/Gravity (respectively) Fus!Samus, but those don't really make much sense to begin with. Could maybe headcanon that the X can't fully replicate power if it's copying an old corpse but there isn't really much grounds for that.

Outside of her one off suits, Dread Samus should be her at her strongest, right?

 

[Chariot190]

Metroid suit or Hypermode(3) would be strongest

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Since the gap between Varia and Gravity is a seemingly one shot level gap, do we know how large the gap between Power and Varia is?

Also, damn is Kraid actually pretty ass in ZM and SM scaling wise, bro out here losing to Original Power Suit and Legendary Power Suit Samus easily with her normal missiles.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah Samus' strongest state is either Metroid Suit or PED, latter has a bigger scaling chain (Varia << Dark Suit << Light Suit < MP2 DS << MP3 DS = Hypermode PED) though.

Power - Varia is also pretty significant, they make it clear getting depowered is a huge power drop for her in S&J and a few other instances.

Kraid kinda sucks yeah. Even in Dread where he would scale to something higher Samus doesn't treat him like a threat at all so it's dubious if he would there. He does stonewall og Power Suit in the manga at least though.